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[numble]

Timezones must be messing with GAF's China Defence Squad. Out to lunch or asleep.

Everyone should be up in China by now, and it's probably still too early for lunch.

 

[xelios]

that the attacks were targeting the information of Chinese human rights activists.

Google has also discovered that phishing attacks have been used to compromise the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists around the world.

Haven't they been targeted enough.

Good move on Google's part, anyway.

 

[Karakand]

I am sure there is some completely sensible cultural or historical explanation for this Chicom behavior. Google is just being culturally imperialistic.

 

[firehawk12]

I wish Google would pull out of China, but I'm pretty sure that it won't happen. There's just too much money to lose - and for publicly traded companies, that's all that matters.

 

[numble]

I wish Google would pull out of China, but I'm pretty sure that it won't happen. There's just too much money to lose - and for publicly traded companies, that's all that matters.

Well, google.com works in China, google.cn is just a search engine that guarantees you won't find any firewalled pages, as well as providing other services like a costly but legal/free mp3 download service.

American Internet companies have been trying to crack the Chinese market forever, which is why they give in to the demands for censorship. But they're realizing that even then, it's been hard to crack and still lose money trying to crack it, as well as being bad publicity, as when Yahoo got into a lot of heat for turning over e-mails of dissidents (http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20071113003. Yahoo sold off it's China operations afterwards.

I'm not sure if Google is making that much money in China--they've been consistently dominated by Chinese-owned Baidu (it's stock price jumped up 7% to $413.52‎ on this Google news)--if Google were doing a lot better in the China market, I'll bet they wouldn't be taking this gamble.

 

[btkadams]

Well, google.com works in China, google.cn is just a search engine that guarantees you won't find any firewalled pages, as well as providing other services like a costly but legal/free mp3 download service.

American Internet companies have been trying to crack the Chinese market forever, which is why they give in to the demands for censorship. But they're realizing that even then, it's been hard to crack and still lose money trying to crack it, as well as being bad publicity, as when Yahoo got into a lot of heat for turning over e-mails of dissidents (http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20071113003). Yahoo sold off it's China operations afterwards.

I'm not sure if Google is making that much money in China--they've been consistently dominated by Chinese-owned Baidu (it's stock price jumped up 7% to $413.52‎ on this Google news)--if Google were doing a lot better in the China market, I'll bet they wouldn't be taking this gamble.

yahoo did that? fuck, that's lame.

 

[-COOLIO-]

yahoo did that? fuck, that's lame.

yeah thats news to me too

 

[firehawk12]

Yeah, that's the other thing - China is totally protectionist, so trying to compete is going to be a costly measure anyway. But I guess I didn't even take the cynical view that this gives Google an "out" to leave the Chinese market "gracefully".

As for the reporter scandal - next to fighting the Microsoft merger, that'll probably be Jerry Yang's other legacy.

yeah thats news to me too

"To be doing business in China, or anywhere else in the world, we have to comply with local law."

 

[slit]

Regardless of Google's motavation, I'm just glad someone is standing up to Chinese tyranny.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Haha, what a buncha jackass. Google at least tried to please them with the censorship, but some people still fuck with them, and now all the floodgates are open. I for one applaud Google's move.

You can't stop the flow of information bitches!

They never shouldve worked with them in the first place. Google is still fucking awesome but they lost that 'can do no wrong' mystique when they originally bowed to the PRC pressure

 

[tino]

Google is serious this time. People reporting inside China that google.cn now can search for all kind of censored stuff that were omitted previously.

Keywords like "6.4" "tiananmen" are turning out the same result as the English google page.

I am totally in support of google on this. This is force alot of Chinese to use VPN and tunnel. It will make the tunneling tools much better.

 

[ccbfan]

I'm not sure if people even understand the situation.

Google pulling out of China does not hurt China at all.

China can still hack into google dbs

plus any censored search results would just be firewalled.

The only real purpose of google.cn was to give google market share in China since it had extra capabilities like not bring up search results that would be firewalled. So basically google.cn becomes more like google.com. Its not like the Chinese can't use google.com to start with.

Plus google's market share is really weak in China.

 

[numble]

Google is serious this time. People reporting inside China that google.cn now can search for all kind of censored stuff that were omitted previously.

Keywords like "6.4" "tiananmen" are turning out the same result as the English google page.

I am totally in support of google on this. This is force alot of Chinese to use VPN and tunnel. It will make the tunneling tools much better.

Interesting... Where are you finding these reports? From what I read, they were only going to start discussing with the government the idea of an uncensored version.

The first page of the Google.cn image results for "tiananmen" still doesn't give you the tank pictures that google.com gives you, though the second page has a tank man photo. I also checked with a China proxy to make sure the results are the same and accessible in China.

 

[Deku]

China is fast turning into the greatest threat to human rights in a hundred years.

 

[D4Danger]

Its not like the Chinese can't use google.com to start with.

I'm sure they can use the site but the content isn't the same.

 

[numble]

I'm sure they can use the site but the content isn't the same.

What he's saying is an uncensored version of google.cn will just be like how one can currently use google.com in China--you don't know if your search results will be firewalled or not (whereas current users of google.cn know that every link they click will be accessible). I suppose it may be a bit faster since the servers would be in China.

 

[numble]

Found this via twitter...

Presenting flowers to the Google China offices in Beijing:

http://twitter.com/#search?q=#GoogleCN
#GoogleCN is the tag, but it's mostly in Chinese

 

[Siyou]

google will be blocked.... just like facebook and youtube. FML

 

[tino]

Interesting... Where are you finding these reports? From what I read, they were only going to start discussing with the government the idea of an uncensored version.

The first page of the Google.cn image results for "tiananmen" still doesn't give you the tank pictures that google.com gives you, though the second page has a tank man photo. I also checked with a China proxy to make sure the results are the same and accessible in China.

I spend half of my time hang out in Chinese forums.

 

[numble]

More stuff I'm finding via twitter:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60C0WR20100113?type=politicsNews

Clinton: Google China case raises serious concerns

"We have been briefed by Google on these allegations, which raise very serious concerns and questions. We look to the Chinese government for an explanation," Clinton said in a statement in Honolulu, where she is en route to the western Pacific.

Clinton said "the ability to operate with confidence in cyberspace is critical in a modern society and economy" and that the United States would have further comment as the facts in the case become clear.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...iefed-hillary-clinton-on-china-situation.html

Google Inc. briefed Secretary of State Hillary Clinton last week on its situation in China, a senior U.S. official familiar with the matter said.
Clinton, who is in Hawaii on the first stop of an Asia- Pacific trip, may issue a statement soon, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Google yesterday said it may shut its Chinese Web site after discovering a “highly-sophisticated” attack last month aimed at e-mail accounts.

 

[numble]

I spend half of my time hang out in Chinese forums.

What forums do you visit? I'm trying to learn more about Chinese Internet culture--I currently just read translated stuff from English websites out there like chinasmack, Global Voices Online, and chinahush (linked in the off-chance that other people are interested).

 

[tino]

What forums do you visit? I'm trying to learn more about Chinese Internet culture--I currently just read translated stuff from English websites out there like chinasmack, Global Voices Online, and chinahush (linked in the off-chance that other people are interested).

It's a pretty high volume photography forum. It trends toward older aged, higher income, educated engineer and male dominated SLR users.

http://forum.xitek.com/index.php

Happen to be better than any English photography forum I visit.

edit: if you want the Chinese version of Somethingawful/fark, go to tianya/mop. There is no Chinese equivalent of GAF unfortunately.

 

[hteng]

the chinese engineers and technical personels i worked with almost always prefer baidu, it's just that much better for them in the country, even when they are out of the country. So i don't see how this move would hurt China at all, like others said, if Google pull out, it's just google.cn going, they can still access google.com, which is pretty much an uncensored search engine.

 

[xelios]

Found this via twitter...

Presenting flowers to the Google China offices in Beijing:

Nice.

 

[numble]

Here is a better image:

I think the card says "Google - True Character"--it literally means "genuine/true/real chinese-word/chinese-character," which I'm interpreting to be "True Character" (from what Google Translate tells me) but I've never heard that phrase or slang before.

Also found via twitter, which is still banned in China (people still can find ways around the firewall though).

tino: I'll try checking out Mop sometime--it seems crazy-hard to navigate.

 

[tino]

"google - real man" (It's also a song title)

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Also, fuck the Chinese government, fuck it hard.
People bitch about the US and the EU (and not without merit), but damn, I'll take them as our future overload over China every day of the week.

It's one of those things I'll say and say until everyone hears it: People wag fingers at America cuz it works. It will not work on China.

 

[3dmodeler]

Even if they get rid of google.cn, google.com is still censored. How do you guys get around the censorship in China? I used to use Freegate but it's not as effective anymore and TOR is just too slow and a hassle to set up.

 

[SiteSeer]

free net porn for china, get it while it's HOT!

 

[numble]

Even if they get rid of google.cn, google.com is still censored. How do you guys get around the censorship in China? I used to use Freegate but it's not as effective anymore and TOR is just too slow and a hassle to set up.

I used to use hotspot shield when I was there, but someone here told me it doesn't work anymore.

If you, or if you know any friends that go to school or university outside China, their IT department might provide VPN connections, and that is often a really good method.

 

[ScientificNinja]

I was part of the China Defence Force in the last thread, but this isn't something I'm going to defend. Google is well within its rights to retaliate for the attack. I draw the line at using this as an excuse to make China out to be some kind of threat to the world: You are fundamentally naive if you don't think every other technologically advanced nation in the world isn't doing the same thing.

There are a couple of key differences, though. First, China has the world's highest or second highesr capital in militaristic and nationalistic web-savvy citizens. Secondly, this type of stuff happens all the time (eg, the last time Twitter went down was due to Russian/Georgian activity)- it's just that this time, Google decided to 'out' China. I'm almost certain Google's decision to out China is in part commercially motivated.

 

[tino]

It's one of those things I'll say and say until everyone hears it: People wag fingers at America cuz it works. It will not work on China.

Well sooner or later China will start some kind of democratization process. Maybe in 2 years maybe in 20 years. We don't know. Maybe it will go the taiwan route maybe it will transform faster. We don't know. Don't expect the CCP still the only show in town by the time you have grandchild.

 

[numble]

I was part of the China Defence Force in the last thread, but this isn't something I'm going to defend. Google is well within its rights to retaliate for the attack. I draw the line at using this as an excuse to make China out to be some kind of threat to the world: You are fundamentally naive if you don't think every other technologically advanced nation in the world isn't doing the same thing.

There are a couple of key differences, though. First, China has the world's highest or second highesr capital in militaristic and nationalistic web-savvy citizens. Secondly, this type of stuff happens all the time (eg, the last time Twitter went down was due to Russian/Georgian activity)- it's just that this time, Google decided to 'out' China. I'm almost certain Google's decision to out China is in part commercially motivated.

Besides the rights angle, another way to view China's attitude towards Western Internet companies is that China is extremely protectionist when it comes to Internet companies--it frustrates Google with random blockages and slowdowns, blocks youtube, facebook and twitter while allowing Chinese companies that copy them to flourish--I'm sure Baidu's high NASDAQ price owes a lot to Chinese favoritism.

 

[Raistlin]

Google do not deserve ass kissing for doing the only sensible thing after 4 years.
Don't get me wrong, I'm EXTREMELY happy with this move and better late than never, but you know, when reversing and appalling decision like this, we should remember that this company went along with such unacceptable practices, not that it decided to stop them.

Agreed. While I certainly applaud the move, for the people shouting 'large clanking balls', if that were true, they would have never done google.cn to begin with. There's a reason why it was so controversial when it was launched, it effectively went against everything google claimed to stand for.

Also, fuck the Chinese government, fuck it hard.
People bitch about the US and the EU (and not without merit), but damn, I'll take them as our future overload over China every day of the week.

.

 

[SapientWolf]

yahoo did that? fuck, that's lame.

I remember that incident. I deleted Yahoo from my Firefox search bar after that and never used it again.

 

[Raistlin]

I'm actually wondering if the US government might get involved. If google's investigation really does have credible evidence, it's going to be hard to ignore given the number of companies attacked.


This could end up being a far bigger deal than is immediately obvious.




[EDIT] - Oh shi- ... just read page 2 and saw Hillary has already been debriefed. It begins.

 

[SiteSeer]

I draw the line at using this as an excuse to make China out to be some kind of threat to the world: You are fundamentally naive if you don't think every other technologically advanced nation in the world isn't doing the same thing.

seriously, china are mere amateurs when it comes to capturing information. echelon, the renamed information awareness office, telco net backbone taps, taps on traffic through mideast deep water fiber, windows nsa-key and ex-cia spooks that work at google has got data surveillance covered.

 

[numble]

seriously, china are mere amateurs when it comes to capturing information. echelon, the renamed information awareness office, telco net backbone taps, taps on traffic through mideast deep water fiber, windows nsa-key and ex-cia spooks that work at google has got data surveillance covered.

I just Wiki'd Echelon and never knew anything about it. Crazy stuff.

 

[numble]

My last post for the night...
CNBC interview with Google's Chief Legal Officer, which provides a lot more details:
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010...265/google-may-close-operations-in-china.html

 

[tino]

I just Wiki'd Echelon and never knew anything about it. Crazy stuff.

You don't know Echelon? How old are you?

(I don't think its the same thing as actively censoring speech, but I never said the US government is the good guys either.)

 

[Karakand]

I draw the line at using this as an excuse to make China out to be some kind of threat to the world: You are fundamentally naive if you don't think every other technologically advanced nation in the world isn't doing the same thing.

Well the Chicoms sure suck at it.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I was part of the China Defence Force in the last thread, but this isn't something I'm going to defend. Google is well within its rights to retaliate for the attack. I draw the line at using this as an excuse to make China out to be some kind of threat to the world

You're right. The PRC are only a threat to the Chinese people.

 

[SiteSeer]

You're right. The PRC are only a threat to the Chinese people.

which is why the chinese people

Spoiler

are brainwashed to

overwhelmingly support their gov't

Spoiler

according to those who don't live in china or are chinese citizens

 

[numble]

A different take--I really should be doing my reading for tomorrow's classes!

http://www.techcrunch.com/2010/01/12/google’s-china-stance-more-about-business-than-thwarting-evil/

Google’s China Stance: More about Business than Thwarting Evil

Writing about China as an American is always tricky, but nowhere near as tricky as what an American company faces doing business there. Let me say upfront, I don’t envy Google. The company has had more success in China than a lot of other big Valley names, but isn’t and will likely never be the market leader. And to get that far, many in the West feel Google has had to compromise its “do-no-evil” ethics by agreeing to some of the government’s censorship rules. Google has been damned either way: China is too big of a market to ignore, but getting as far as they have has come at a steep price to their reputation and international (read: Western) integrity.

Enter the now famous blog post (that was notably, only on the English-language site) saying that Google was no longer playing by the Chinese government’s rules and was prepared to close down Chinese operations if it came to that. Valley elites erupted into applause on Twitter and blogs saying Google was showing more backbone than the US government and was a model of integrity for the world.

I’ll give Google this much: They’re taking a bad situation and making something good out of it, both from a human and business point of view. I’m not saying human rights didn’t play into the decision, but this was as much about business. Lest we get too self-righteous as Westerners, we should remember three things:

1. Google’s business was not doing well in China. Does anyone really think Google would be doing this if it had top market share in the country? For one thing, I’d guess that would open them up to shareholder lawsuits. Google is a for-profit, publicly-held company at the end of the day. When I met with Google’s former head of China Kai-fu Lee in Beijing last October, he noted that one reason he left Google was that it was clear the company was never going to substantially increase its market share or beat Baidu. Google has clearly decided doing business in China isn’t worth it, and are turning what would be a negative into a marketing positive for its business in the rest of the world.

2. Google is ready to burn bridges. This is not how negotiations are done in China, and Google has done well enough there to know that. You don’t get results by pressuring the government in a public, English-language blog post. If Google were indeed still working with the government this letter would not have been posted because it has likely slammed every door shut, as a long-time entrepreneur in China Marc van der Chijs and many others said on Twitter. This was a scorched earth move, aimed at buying Google some good will in the rest of the world; Chinese customers and staff were essentially just thrown under the bus.

3. This is only going to be a trickier issue in the next decade. Think the Shanda acquisition of Mochi Media was an isolated event? Think again. Chinese Web companies are building huge cash hoards and valuable stock currencies and it’s still a comparatively young Web market. Increasingly, these companies could be likely buyers of US startups—not the other way around. Will the Valley’s rhetoric stick then?

This may be the most shocking part: In retrospect Yahoo has played China far better than Google. It pulled out of the country years ago, knowing it wouldn’t win and owns nearly 40% of the Alibaba, a company that very definitely knows how to grow in China. Entrepreneur and angel investor in China Bill Bishop —who hasn’t always agreed with my China coverage in the past—pointed this out, adding “Not often Yahoo looks smarter than Google.”

There might be some element of truth to this article. In the CNBC interview, the Google exec basically said that their China operations are small, any revenue there is immaterial, and that they wouldn't lose any money by pulling out (reassuring investors) but ends the interview on a "morals are more important than the pursuit of the dollar" note (good PR). It's probably mixed motives.

tino: about Echelon, once upon a time I probably knew about Echelon (I used to be an intelligence world nerd), but it probably got lost as I stopped being interested in intelligence world stuff.

 

[ScientificNinja]

A different take--I really should be doing my reading for tomorrow's classes!

http://www.techcrunch.com/2010/01/12/google’s-china-stance-more-about-business-than-thwarting-evil/


There might be some element of truth to this article. In the CNBC interview, the Google exec basically said that their China operations are small, any revenue there is immaterial, and that they wouldn't lose any money by pulling out (reassuring investors) but ends the interview on a "morals are more important than the pursuit of the dollar" note (good PR). It's probably mixed motives.

This would honestly not surprise me, hence what I said earlier about commercial motivations. I know of many people who've tried to break into China - an acquaintance of mine headed up Lion Nathan's campaign (Lion Nathan is one of the biggest beer companies in Australia/New Zealand) in China and he came back swearing that he'd never try that shit again.

 

[Salazar]

swearing that he'd never try that shit again.

How odd to hear that phrase in connection with Lion Nathan.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

Fight!

A winnar is you!

 

[numble]

James Fallows of The Atlantic has an interesting take:

The Google news: China enters its Bush-Cheney era

I have not yet been able to reach my friends in China to discuss this story, and for now I am judging the Google response strictly by what the company has posted on its "Official Blog," here, and my observations from dealing with Google-China officials while overseas. Therefore this will epitomize the Web-age reaction to a breaking news story, in that it will be a first imperfect assessment, subject to revision as new facts come in. With that caveat, here is what I think as I hear this news:

- It is a significant development. Significant for Google; and while only marginally significant for developments inside China potentially very significant for China's relations with the rest of the world.

- The significance for Google is of the "last straw" variety. For years, the company has struggled to maintain the right path in China. Its policy around the world is that it will obey the law of whatever country it operates in. You might object to that -- until you think about it: in a world of sovereign states, how could a company possibly say, "We'll operate within your borders but won't obey your laws?" (Similarly, Google's national sites in certain parts of Europe obey laws banning neo-Nazi sites and other material that would be permissible in the U.S.) Chinese laws require search engine companies and other Internet operators to censor certain material. Searches conducted by Google.CN -- in Chinese language, mainly for users inside China -- have obeyed those Chinese laws. Meanwhile searches on the main Google.COM have been uncensored for material like "Tiananmen Square" or "Dalai Lama." Anyone who could find a way to get to Google.com - about which more in a moment -- could find whatever he or she wanted.

Dealing with those requirements has been part of a non-stop set of difficulties for Google in China. More details about this later on. Like most other Western companies, Google has consistently decided to cope with the difficulties and stay in China. Part of the reason was the obvious commercial potential that the Chinese market has for almost any company in any industry. Another part was Google's argument -- which I basically believe -- that the Chinese public was better off with another source of information, even if constrained, than it would be without that option. But, as reported on Google's site, a latest wave of provocations and intrusions was simply too much.

- In terms of information flow into China, this decision probably makes no real difference at all. Why? Anybody inside China who really wants to get to Google.com -- or BBC or whatever site may be blocked for the moment -- can still do so easily, by using a proxy server or buying (for under $1 per week) a VPN service. Details here. For the vast majority of Chinese users, it's not worth going to that cost or bother, since so much material is still available in Chinese from authorized sites. That has been the genius, so far, of the Chinese "Great Firewall" censorship system: it allows easy loopholes for anyone who might get really upset, but it effectively keeps most Chinese Internet users away from unauthorized material.

- In terms of the next stage of China's emergence as a power and dealings with the United States, this event has the potential to make a great deal of difference -- in a negative way, for China. I think of this as the beginning of China's Bush-Cheney era. To put it in perspective:

I have long argued that China's relations with the U.S. are overall positive for both sides (here and here); that the Chinese government is doing more than outsiders think to deal with vexing problems like the environment (here); and more generally that China is a still-poor, highly-diverse and individualistic country whose development need not "threaten" anyone else and should be encouraged. I still believe all of that.

But there are also reasons to think that a difficult and unpleasant stage of China-U.S. and China-world relations lies ahead. This is so on the economic front, as warned about here nearly a year ago with later evidence here. It may prove to be so on the environmental front -- that is what the argument over China's role in Copenhagen is about. It is increasingly so on the political-liberties front, as witness Vaclav Havel's denunciation of the recent 11-year prison sentence for the man who is in many ways his Chinese counterpart, Liu Xiaobo. And if a major U.S. company -- indeed, Google has been ranked the #1 brand in the world -- has concluded that, in effect, it must break diplomatic relations with China because its policies are too repressive and intrusive to make peace with, that is a significant judgment.

-- Everything in the paragraph above has the similarity of being based directly or indirectly on recent Chinese government decisions. The government could decide (and probably will) to allow the value of the RMB to float again. The government could decide to throw its weight behind an effective climate agreement -- we'll know by January 31 about its post-Copenhagen proposals. The government could have decided not to prosecute Liu Xiaobo. And -- the indirect part -- presumably it could have worked with Google to address the complaints alleged in the Google statement.

In a strange and striking way there is an inversion of recent Chinese and U.S. roles. In the switch from George W. Bush to Barack Obama, the U.S. went from a president much of the world saw as deliberately antagonizing them to a president whose Nobel Prize reflected (perhaps desperate) gratitude at his efforts at conciliation. China, by contrast, seems to be entering its Bush-Cheney era. For Chinese readers, let me emphasize again my argument that China is not a "threat" and that its development is good news for mankind. But its government is on a path at the moment that courts resistance around the world. To me, that is what Google's decision signifies.

The actual blog post has embedded links which I have not copied over.
http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2010/01/first_reactions_on_google_and.php

 

[numble]

Evgeny Morozov with the cynical take:

http://neteffect.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/13/doubting_the_sincerity_of_googles_threat

Doubting the sincerity of Google's threat

Unlike many other honorable members of the technology blogosphere, I am not too excited about Google's ultimatum to the Chinese government (if you have been living in a cave or are not on Twitter: Google wants to either stop censoring search results on Google.cn or shut down their Chinese shop altogether).

Of course, all companies make mistakes, and Google's executives may have discovered that they blundered when they decided to offer a censored version of Google.cn. I grant them the right to to fix the situation.

But to wrap their decision in the melodramatic rhetoric of cyberattacks on Chinese human rights activists? Give me a break. Their supposed naivete about whom they were dealing with just doesn't sound very convincing. Are we really supposed to believe that, until they experienced cyberattacks on the email accounts of the Chinese human rights activists, they thought that their counterparts in the Chinese government were all good and well-meaning chaps who would never think of such a thing?

I won't be surprised if it turns out that cybercriminals in virtually every country wage cyberattacks on Gmail and other Google services. This is now what Internet companies should be expecting: cyberattacks just happen. Is Google going to threaten to leave from all those countries, too, even if it doesn't censor the Web there? If other companies were ready to shut down their shops in China or Russia every time they come under cyberattacks, they would all be done in their first months of operation.

Google justified its limited presence in China by saying that the company provides some kind of a public service. ""While removing search results is inconsistent with Google's mission, providing no information (or a heavily degraded user experience that amounts to no information) is more inconsistent with our mission" is what they said in Jan 2006. I just don't see how pulling out of China -- assuming the Chinese authorities don't bow down to Google's pressure -- would be consistent with that earlier stance.

If the logic is that Google can't guarantee the security of its Chinese users, well, they are really in bad shape and should close their shop everywhere. If, on the other hand, they completely changed their minds about the ethics of their involvement in China and now think that a little bit of censorship is evil in itself and clashes with Google's mission, then what's the point of framing it as a cybersecurity issue?

Here is my very crude and cynical (Eastern European) reading of the situation: Google was in need of some positive PR to correct its worsening image (especially in Europe, where concerns about privacy are mounting on a daily basis). Google.cn is the goat that would be sacrificed, for it will generate most positive headlines and may not result in devastating losses to Google's business (Google.cn holds roughly 30 percent of the Chinese market).

All the talk about cybersecurity breaches seems epiphenomenal to this plan; it may simply be the easiest way to frame Google's decision without triggering too many "why, oh why?" questions. Besides, there is no better candy for U.S. media and politicians than the threat of an all-out cyber-Armageddon initiated by Chinese hackers. I can assure everyone that at least a half of all discussions that Google's move would spur would be about the need to make America more secure from cyberattacks. No better timing to throw more terrorism-related meat to the U.S. public ("what if they read Obama's email?").

Now, if you believe that Google was wrong to censor the Web in China in the first place, I doubt you'll suddenly become a fan of their work -- they still don't seem to recognize that censoring the Web in China may have been wrong for ethical reasons and frame it simply as a business decision (based on new security threats). You'll probably think that they are now doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

If, on the other hand, you believe that they did the right thing in China by offering their limited service (rather than no service at all), I don't see how this move could make you feel good either: all it took to get Google to shut down their "public service" was to launch a bunch of cyberattacks (so, should we expect that, instead of direct censorship, authoritarian governments would now simply launch cyberattacks on their targets and force them to leave under psychological pressure?). Thus, you'll probably think that they are now doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.

So, I don't really understand all the enthusiasm about Google's move. Can anyone really make a coherent argument that by threatening to leave China because of cyberattacks, they are doing the right thing for the right reason? I'd very much like to hear it.

 

[DataStream]

http://itnews.com.au/News/164628,more-details-emerge-on-google-hack.aspx