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[BlownUpRich]

Sorry I won't bring it up again, but it's getting scary how close AI is able to replicate GTA 6, if someone told me this is a real leak, I wouldn't have noticed it!



They've been making the rounds in the community these last couple of days, makes me so excited for GTA 6 and how amazing it'll look.

Spoiler: More shots

 

[GymWolf]

The fixed game ladies and gentlemen...

Btw is there a technical reason why destruction is delayed by half a second, it look like shit sometimes that reactions are so delayed.

I hope they fix it sooner or later.

 

[BlownUpRich]

The fixed game ladies and gentlemen...

Btw is there a technical reason why destruction is delayed by half a second, it look like shit sometimes that reactions are so delayed.

I hope they fix it sooner or later.

What is the blue hell is this? This looks sooo fugly it's unsettling! No wonder why you thought your GPU was fried...

 

[naguanatak]

Another thing that Crimson Desert does extremely well is Character Animation. They went the Rockstar route with grounded and heavy animations which makes the character move like a real person. I honestly love it, and not only the movement but the sound the character makes as well while walking or running. Each step feels crunchy

The devs have put tons of effort in this area and as a result, even just walking around feels satisfying.

I tested Starfield a couple of days ago with the new update and the character movement feels so floaty and unrealistic, there is no love or care either in the footsteps sounds so it seems like your character doesn't any weight at all even though you are walking with a fucking spacesuit lol

This is such a fundamental concept that every game developer should nail because a lot of the gameplay enjoyment comes from how the character moves and feel when controlling it and yet many companies fail at it

yet a lot of people want "snappy" characters that can zoom through the map because we are playing vId30g4m3z...
RDR2 or rockstar main characters in general get criticized quite a lot for their weighty feeling. For me personally, there is nothing better than RDR2 in character control. Yeah, I would be happy with a little less input lag, of course, but the feeling of controlling Arthur is just unmatched. I like what Pearl Abyss have done and would be happy if more Devs would go this route, fully agree with you that it is an essential part of gameplay enjoyment. Animation driven > input driven

 

[Exentryk]

Animation might be good to look at in Crimson Desert but playing the game is terrible. You just have to try stopping the character at a particular location and you'll see how out of control the character animations are for precise and responsive feedback.

See these comments from Platinum Games developers:

[...] Here's a common situation: You're patting yourself on the back for making an animation that looks super-cool and flows really nicely. Then, you put your perfect animation into the game engine and try controlling it, and it dawns on you that it's too slow, too clunky. With tears in your eyes, you go back and cut away huge parts of your magnificent creation until it finally feels good.


As an animator first and foremost, there's a lot you can't help but want to leave in. But you're not making a movie here – you're making a game, and it has to be tight and responsive. The truest sign of a skilled game animator is their ability to make something great with the number of frames they're given. [...]

 

[coachmcguirk91]

yet a lot of people want "snappy" characters that can zoom through the map because we are playing vId30g4m3z...
RDR2 or rockstar main characters in general get criticized quite a lot for their weighty feeling. For me personally, there is nothing better than RDR2 in character control. Yeah, I would be happy with a little less input lag, of course, but the feeling of controlling Arthur is just unmatched. I like what Pearl Abyss have done and would be happy if more Devs would go this route, fully agree with you that it is an essential part of gameplay enjoyment. Animation driven > input driven

The Last of Us 2 is the GOAT of heavier gameplay mechanics, especially animation

 

[Merline]

If GTA6 gameplay looked exactly like this, would you be happy with it?

 

[naguanatak]

The Last of Us 2 is the GOAT of heavier gameplay mechanics, especially animation

I like their animation (blending) tech and I enjoyed both games, but it's a bit too snappy for my taste. Even though their motto was "grounded", it doesn't feel grounded enough for me in that department. Still, very enjoyable games.

 

[Ramiro_Rodriguez]

If GTA6 gameplay looked exactly like this, would you be happy with it?

Considering the power of the base PS5 and the graphics of many games, i'd be fine with such graphics.

 

[naguanatak]

If GTA6 gameplay looked exactly like this, would you be happy with it?

Yes, except the mini map style

 

[Bojji]

Thoughts?

I have a very mixed feelings about this.

 

[SlimySnake]

The fixed game ladies and gentlemen...

Btw is there a technical reason why destruction is delayed by half a second, it look like shit sometimes that reactions are so delayed.

I hope they fix it sooner or later.

lol what area is this?

 

[Gonzito]

If GTA6 gameplay looked exactly like this, would you be happy with it?

I would be on board

 

[Bojji]

lol what area is this?

I saw the same thing a number of times as well. Game looks like it drops to 16bit color palette lol.

 

[GymWolf]

lol what area is this?

Cant remember but in the first pic, the flaw disappear almost entirely if i turn the lantern on.

this game handle complete darkness like sony handled bend studio...

 

[analog_future]

Sorry I won't bring it up again, but it's getting scary how close AI is able to replicate GTA 6, if someone told me this is a real leak, I wouldn't have noticed it!



They've been making the rounds in the community these last couple of days, makes me so excited for GTA 6 and how amazing it'll look.

Spoiler: More shots

Not sure why you're surprised by this. AI has been faking real life images convincingly for a while now. No reason it wouldn't be able to do the same for games.

 

[Gonzito]

LOL

 

[GudOlRub]

Sorry I won't bring it up again, but it's getting scary how close AI is able to replicate GTA 6, if someone told me this is a real leak, I wouldn't have noticed it!



They've been making the rounds in the community these last couple of days, makes me so excited for GTA 6 and how amazing it'll look.

Spoiler: More shots

My favourite one so far

Spoiler

Anyway we need a new trailer and gameplay fast, the community is descending into absolute madness, all this AI garbage just amplifies it...

 

[thief183]

Cant remember but in the first pic, the flaw disappear almost entirely if i turn the lantern on.

this game handle complete darkness like sony handled bend studio...

I experienced this prepatch in a specific zone in the forest of the Pororin, with the patch it vanished, gotta admit tho that my lantern is always on.

 

[naguanatak]

My favourite one so far

Spoiler

Anyway we need a new trailer and gameplay fast, the community is descending into absolute madness, all this AI garbage just amplifies it...

If they're still on track for November, we should be getting something soon, I guess.

 

[SlimySnake]

Cant remember but in the first pic, the flaw disappear almost entirely if i turn the lantern on.

this game handle complete darkness like sony handled bend studio...

it looks like their denoiser completely breaks down in some scenarios. very bizarre.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ex- Ubisoft dev (principal engineer followed on Twitter by the tech director at ubisoft massive) calling out modern devs.



But if I say they are lazy, im being mean.

 

[Bojji]

Ex- Ubisoft dev (principal engineer followed by the tech director at ubisoft massive) calling out modern devs.



But if I say they are lazy, im being mean.

RE4 had no PT and it had similar problems. I agree that modern devs are lazier than before, but PT is not the reason for that - it just shows how the scene should look with real lighting.

I guess baking all this shit would take massive amounts of time, we had worse and worse Ambient Occlusion and GI in games long before PT even appeared on the scene.

 

[GymWolf]

What is the blue hell is this? This looks sooo fugly it's unsettling! No wonder why you thought your GPU was fried...

No idea.

 

[SlimySnake]

RE4 had no PT and it had similar problems. I agree that modern devs are lazier than before, but PT is not the reason for that - it just shows how the scene should look with real lighting.

I guess baking all this shit would take massive amounts of time, we had worse and worse Ambient Occlusion and GI in games long before PT even appeared on the scene.

I dont think he's blaming PT. He's simply saying that devs are too reliant on PT to do the heavy lifting for them. If you click on the video, it has a comparison of a car with no AO and no shadowing under it. Thats the kind of shit that was fixed in the PS3 era.

Like you said in the DS2 thread, some devs are just lazy. KojiPro had access to the fantastic hero lighting system in Decima and chose not to use it. They went with native 4k but left AF at 2x. Capcom has standard RT already implemented. They just need to enable RT shadows and AO but dont want to for performance reasons, well then bake them in.

 

[Exentryk]

Check the top of the buildings on the right for LOD.

 

[analog_future]

Ex- Ubisoft dev (principal engineer followed on Twitter by the tech director at ubisoft massive) calling out modern devs.



But if I say they are lazy, im being mean.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think the Nvidia sponsorship with RE Requiem and Pragmata has something to do with them holding back raster/RT and saving "PT" as an Nvidia exclusive.

 

[Bojji]

Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think the Nvidia sponsorship with RE Requiem and Pragmata has something to do with them holding back raster/RT and saving "PT" as an Nvidia exclusive.

Nonsense.

Look how AMD sponsored RE engine games looked like.

 

[analog_future]

Nonsense.

Look how AMD sponsored RE engine games looked like.

Uhh, I did, and in-game character faces in particular look way better maxed out in RE4 Remake (with no PT) than they do with PT off in Requiem/Pragmata.


In no world should "path tracing" make this type of difference to faces unless you're holding back the other settings:

 

[SlimySnake]

Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think the Nvidia sponsorship with RE Requiem and Pragmata has something to do with them holding back raster/RT and saving "PT" as an Nvidia exclusive.

pretty sure RE4 had the same issue with character models, and it didnt even ship with DLSS.

Someone posted the modded PT comparisons and it completely fixed the faces.

i think its just their 60 fps target for these games. The Pro runs at 864p and still drops frames.

 

[Toots]

I would permanently apply the Deus Ex Human Revolution piss filter to my irl eyeballs if I could.

That is the type of unrestricted behavior i can get behind.

I wish my vision had N64 draw distance when i take public transportation myself, or even virtual boy red and black two tone. It would be better than what my eyes can see in the metro anyway.

 

[CowboyLou]

That is the type of unrestricted behavior i can get behind.

I wish my vision had N64 draw distance when i take public transportation myself, or even virtual boy red and black two tone. It would be better than what my eyes can see in the metro anyway.

my vision is augmented

 

[SlimySnake]

Uhh, I did, and in-game character faces in particular look way better maxed out in RE4 Remake (with no PT) than they do with PT off in Requiem/Pragmata.


In no world should "path tracing" make this type of difference to faces unless you're holding back the other settings:

RE4 and RE3 had the same issues with the faces. It just wasnt as bad because those games were cross gen, and the devs had more headroom to add some self shadowing on the faces. With RE9 and now Pragmata, these games are targeting 1080p instead of 1512p and just dont have enough left on consoles to get these particular details right. Turning on RT shadows and AO should be fairly simple, so if they arent doing it, its likely because its not fitting their pixel budget.

 

[SlimySnake]

Just got to the desert in Crimson Desert, and I am sorry to say that it has some very last gen rocks that look like they were taken straight out of death stranding 2 and most last gen games. I am sorry, but this is why i like UE5. At least they use some next gen rock assets. I am so tired of these orange rocks in games. Can we please move the fuck on.

There are times where it still looks very good in the desert. Especially when you add foliage and volumetric effects. RTGI still helps makes it look decent instead of complete garbage like DS2. But for a game called Crimson Desert, i wanted it to have a desert that looked amazing.

 

[analog_future]

RE4 and RE3 had the same issues with the faces. It just wasnt as bad because those games were cross gen, and the devs had more headroom to add some self shadowing on the faces. With RE9 and now Pragmata, these games are targeting 1080p instead of 1512p and just dont have enough left on consoles to get these particular details right. Turning on RT shadows and AO should be fairly simple, so if they arent doing it, its likely because its not fitting their pixel budget.

So then still no excuse for the PC versions.

 

[Toots]

Thoughts?

If the year was 2015 and you told me it was a screenshot from a new Sims game i would have said "not bad".

 

[Jack Howitzer]

Check the top of the buildings on the right for LOD.

This is disgusting, wtf are they smoking? Molly or Nangs?

 

[SlimySnake]

So then still no excuse for the PC versions.

It's funny. Alex said that Capcom implemented Path tracing themselves instead of relying on nvidia like Indy and Doom did. it took 2 engineers 1.5 years from start to finish to implement it.

Well, maybe spend a few weeks adding RT shadows and AO in the regular RT mode lol or add Ray Reconstruction to the base RT mode.

I am glad they are spending this much time and resources future proofing their games, but like five cards total can get path tracing running.

 

[Bojji]

So then still no excuse for the PC versions.

Obviosly, but it was AMD that was blocking more advanced RT (and consoles).

Nvidia is FAAAAR from being a good guy here but they allowed the newest games to reach heights that were not available under AMD sponsorship. Why would they make more advanced RT, to run like crap on RDNA2? Would AMD be happy with that?

Edit: analog_future Mr. Kennedy from RE9 vs. RE4 (that had zero nvidia involvement)

Where is AO?

 

[mrMUR_96]

Stalker 2 was self published and they still rushed it out. Then they released two patches, each with 1,800 fixes. I wish i was making this up. 1,800 bug fixes each. Were these 3,600 bug fixes in the first month all Tim Sweeney's fault?

Or maybe these greedy mother fuckers wanted to released the game before thanksgiving and just shipped a broken game knowing they had 3,600 bugs that they knew devs were working to fix. It wasnt big bad EA or Ubisoft forcing devs to ship the game early. It was themselves.

This roadmap was released earlier today by Samson devs. This game launched on April 8th. In 21 days, they would have released 4 updates (plus im pretty sure i saw a hotfix get applied last night). The first two improved CPU bound framerates by a whopping 60%, and the frametimes are still not perfect even at 30 fps. They still have two more to go. They are also self published. Why couldnt they have delayed the game by 21 days? Is this also Tim Sweeney's fault?

Greedy? They were probably running out of money lol, had to at least recoup some costs so they could continue working on it. I guess they could have launched it as early access though.

 

[analog_future]

Obviosly, but it was AMD that was blocking more advanced RT (and consoles).

Nvidia is FAAAAR from being a good guy here but they allowed the newest games to reach heights that were not available under AMD sponsorship. Why would they make more advanced RT, to run like crap on RDNA2? Would AMD be happy with that?

Edit: analog_future Mr. Kennedy from RE9 vs. RE4 (that had zero nvidia involvement)

Where is AO?

Thanks for sharing. Looks like I stand corrected. Maybe Capcom is just bad with shadows/lighting or are just leaning too much on RT/PT to pick up the slack.

 

[mrMUR_96]

It's funny. Alex said that Capcom implemented Path tracing themselves instead of relying on nvidia like Indy and Doom did. it took 2 engineers 1.5 years from start to finish to implement it.

Well, maybe spend a few weeks adding RT shadows and AO in the regular RT mode lol or add Ray Reconstruction to the base RT mode.

I am glad they are spending this much time and resources future proofing their games, but like five cards total can get path tracing running.

But one of those engineers or at least the guy at the gdc talk was an nvidia engineer, so it was collaborative at the very least.

 

[Lootlord]

They already released a patch to fix the pop in up close. Well, eliminate. You can turn off a new setting called geometric detail or something and that will remove all the little pebbles and small bits of foliage that were popping in constantly.

Removing the small stones and stuff is the exact opposite of "fixing it"

Ex- Ubisoft dev (principal engineer followed on Twitter by the tech director at ubisoft massive) calling out modern devs.



But if I say they are lazy, im being mean.

Yeah i don't get the hype for the game's graphics man... looks good with PT on but the RT in this game is just ass.
Look at those blurry and smeary reflections, look at the shimmering.
Then look at a good RT implementation like Cyberpunk.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is huge.

 

[SlimySnake]

Let's fucking go!

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Sorry I won't bring it up again, but it's getting scary how close AI is able to replicate GTA 6, if someone told me this is a real leak, I wouldn't have noticed it!



They've been making the rounds in the community these last couple of days, makes me so excited for GTA 6 and how amazing it'll look.

Spoiler: More shots

If the game has the geo density, lighting and overall fidelity of those spoiler pics I'll be more than happy even at 30fps on base PS5 maybe 40fps on Pro.

 

[KyoZz]

The fixed game ladies and gentlemen...

Btw is there a technical reason why destruction is delayed by half a second, it look like shit sometimes that reactions are so delayed.

I hope they fix it sooner or later.

I saw the same thing a number of times as well. Game looks like it drops to 16bit color palette lol.

That looks TERRIBLE. I had this without RR and at launch, but the last 2 updates made things way better. Now playing with RR it's almost flawless. Some boiling here and there but far from terrible.
Even the lighting with the sword (don't know how it's called in English but the thing with L1 + R1) is now pretty much fixed while it was just destroying the IQ before with artifacts everywere.

What's your config GymWolf? You should try to play with RR it's really worth it, it also get rid of the ghosting.

 

[Luipadre]

Let's fucking go!

Probably day 1 for me. I dont remember anything from the original so it will be a brand new game to me lol

Hope it will look proper nextgen like shadows

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Related to downsizing due to cost savings, part of the ridiculously high cost of game development is that so many studios are located on the US West Coast.

Meanwhile, you've got Warhorse and 4A Games putting out AAA games at a fraction of the price due to lower cost of living/lower wages.

Why isn't there a AAA Midwest or elsewhere US game studio? Cost of living in the Bay Area is 50-80% higher than the Midwest. Boom. I just reduced your AAA dev cost from $200M to $120M by setting up shop in anywhere from Kansas to Kentucky.

People like to move between companies which is a lot easier in SF than Topeka.

 

[GymWolf]

That looks TERRIBLE. I had this without RR and at launch, but the last 2 updates made things way better. Now playing with RR it's almost flawless. Some boiling here and there but far from terrible.
Even the lighting with the sword (don't know how it's called in English but the thing with L1 + R1) is now pretty much fixed while it was just destroying the IQ before with artifacts everywere.

What's your config GymWolf? You should try to play with RR it's really worth it, it also get rid of the ghosting.

I already play with rr.