Drillary Clinton
Banned
I can see why you feel that way but with only 2 games I don't feel I've spent enough time with these characters. Of course this will obviously be the last we see of them after the DLC but one can dream.
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Gravity Rush 2 Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter poipoipoi9
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I can see why you feel that way but with only 2 games I don't feel I've spent enough time with these characters. Of course this will obviously be the last we see of them after the DLC but one can dream.
This plot discussion thread is a mess.
To clear things up, Raven calling Kat her "other half" is either a really close friendship or an implied lesbian relationship to not get hit with a dumb rating by the ESRB for implying gay people exist.
They live in a small house with one bed, Kat doesn't seem to have any interest in Syd or the boy characters that fall for her in GR2 and just in general in GR2 they seem to be 'in sync' and like they can hear each other's voice in their head in times of trouble.
Syd as Alias is blatant in GR1 as for his actions, it's REALLY hard to justify them, but I can only assume he knew he wouldn't be able to get Kat/Alua back up to Eto as his Etoian / Human self so he had to build robo Syd/Alias to make the trip and to bring her back up to the pillar.
We can only assume he needed both sacred gems from Hekseville as a power source as Alias never popped up and stole anything in Jirga Para Lhao / going to JPL didn't appear to be part of his plan. He was always the only one who could control the red nevi (remember when the stalker / imitator was terrified of the random nevi attacks) and in GR2 we see that he has the controller.
We can only assume he was trying to provoke her memories of Eto, as he's always mumbling on about dreaming like Cyanea. I guess we're supposed to assume "dreaming" is any state where a character is without their memories due to gravity shenanigans.
He does also help her unlock her Panther powers in the scene where you have to collect fragments of Dusty.
Unless you assume Alias is a cool robot the whole time and the controller was made by Syd (although the eto chapters seem to imply the red controller is stolen) Syd also does absolutely nothing mechanical in GR1, I'd have preferred Alias/Nevi to actually be a magic candy robots because then that would have been a callback to the candy making.
Electricitie just seems to be a gone-mad fourth creator. I felt it was implied she wanted to kill the gravity storm / demon king that Cai summons but the game's text explicitly states Hekseville must fall to appease / summon / defeat the demon king / gravity storm
Ignoring how gravity ACTUALLY works, maybe this is because unlike JPL / other floating cities, Hekseville as a series of cities is physically bolted onto the world Pillar and not "natural" ? Like Eto or even Boutoume is still relatively natural / indigenous. In Gr1 they actually state there are more world pillars in existence with other cities around them so
What i'm really hoping we get out of the DLC:
When does the Ark open, does the Ark open in Hekseville, does Raven have to make a deal to get Gade to release the Ark during the GR1 finale?
What kind of deal did Raven make.
Where did Sachya go? Did falling into the gravity storm get her scooped up by one of the three creators
Did she go to Eto? Did she rule Eto for a period of time for her to grow up? She has a guardian, it had to have come from somewhere, and presumably she would have gone to Eto to have grown up faster then her brother. Its unclear if the time difference between Boutoume and Hekseville is enough for her to have grown up faster then him.
Is Sachya the reason Arua has a call to action to save the people of Boutoume and Hekseville?
Who the fuck the androids are that were defending Neu Hiraleon at the start
Did Neu Hiraleon somehow already grab the missing kids from the Ark and have them in those weird battery tanks? Were those some of the orphans from Kali and Durga's missing orphanage or were those just the only two
Cut content / maybe they'll expand on this /
Why does Brahman look kind of like crazy red hair Singlor and why did Singlor's plot get completely dropped, I feel like it's going to shake out that Singlor is still lost in time but made it back to Hekseville and has been leaving the "Saghassi" "paintings" as a way of passing on his research through time.
We can only assume the big black gravity evil tower things Brahman made are for supplying the Angels power and storing the gravity energy Grigos collect. Also I guess that the Grigos are actually autonomous or Syd / Alias was helping Brahman with the Grigos the whole time.
As for other cut content, Alias always had a snakerabbit on his suit's lapel, and a very snakerabbity/angry centipedey helmet. When Kat helps Syd at the beginning of GR1 he is chasing a member of the snakerabbits and is about to be beat up by their gang. Who knows what they were planning to do with this association? Maybe the Spy DLC would have been much longer and lead to stealing a third or fourth sacred gem / more parts to make robo Alias bodies / understanding Alias better.
Maybe Syd was supposed to have arrived earlier then Kat in JPL and meet up with her when they went to the mainland, and then he could have started the Angry Centipedes also to have gained notoriety and a search-force to find Kat after being separated from her.
Also Lisa looks way cool as a woman resting on her laurels and struggling to get by, and then also as a cool rebel in her admittedly incredibly short rebellion arc, but I wish she had settled somewhere in the middle of the two character designs for being a mayor / trying to lead. She looks a little silly being the ONLY Lhao tribe person in the game to have the face paint and she keeps it for the rest of the game.
It seems pretty clear that both games were supposed to be part of one gigantic way too ambitious story and both games cut off at awkward points. I'd like to see the story rewritten as a novel or something that the main/head writer could accomplish on their own timeline with no budget/production constrains
To clear things up, Raven calling Kat her "other half" is either a really close friendship or an implied lesbian relationship to not get hit with a dumb rating by the ESRB for implying gay people exist.
They live in a small house with one bed, Kat doesn't seem to have any interest in Syd or the boy characters that fall for her in GR2 and just in general in GR2 they seem to be 'in sync' and like they can hear each other's voice in their head in times of trouble.
Syd as Alias is blatant in GR1 as for his actions, it's REALLY hard to justify them, but I can only assume he knew he wouldn't be able to get Kat/Alua back up to Eto as his Etoian / Human self so he had to build robo Syd/Alias to make the trip and to bring her back up to the pillar.
We can only assume he needed both sacred gems from Hekseville as a power source as Alias never popped up and stole anything in Jirga Para Lhao / going to JPL didn't appear to be part of his plan. He was always the only one who could control the red nevi (remember when the stalker / imitator was terrified of the random nevi attacks) and in GR2 we see that he has the controller.
We can only assume he was trying to provoke her memories of Eto, as he's always mumbling on about dreaming like Cyanea. I guess we're supposed to assume "dreaming" is any state where a character is without their memories due to gravity shenanigans.
He does also help her unlock her Panther powers in the scene where you have to collect fragments of Dusty.
Unless you assume Alias is a cool robot the whole time and the controller was made by Syd (although the eto chapters seem to imply the red controller is stolen) Syd also does absolutely nothing mechanical in GR1, I'd have preferred Alias/Nevi to actually be a magic candy robots because then that would have been a callback to the candy making.
Electricitie just seems to be a gone-mad fourth creator. I felt it was implied she wanted to kill the gravity storm / demon king that Cai summons but the game's text explicitly states Hekseville must fall to appease / summon / defeat the demon king / gravity storm
Ignoring how gravity ACTUALLY works, maybe this is because unlike JPL / other floating cities, Hekseville as a series of cities is physically bolted onto the world Pillar and not "natural" ? Like Eto or even Boutoume is still relatively natural / indigenous. In Gr1 they actually state there are more world pillars in existence with other cities around them so
What i'm really hoping we get out of the DLC:
When does the Ark open, does the Ark open in Hekseville, does Raven have to make a deal to get Gade to release the Ark during the GR1 finale?
What kind of deal did Raven make.
Where did Sachya go? Did falling into the gravity storm get her scooped up by one of the three creators
Did she go to Eto? Did she rule Eto for a period of time for her to grow up? She has a guardian, it had to have come from somewhere, and presumably she would have gone to Eto to have grown up faster then her brother. Its unclear if the time difference between Boutoume and Hekseville is enough for her to have grown up faster then him.
Is Sachya the reason Arua has a call to action to save the people of Boutoume and Hekseville?
Who the fuck the androids are that were defending Neu Hiraleon at the start
Did Neu Hiraleon somehow already grab the missing kids from the Ark and have them in those weird battery tanks? Were those some of the orphans from Kali and Durga's missing orphanage or were those just the only two
Cut content / maybe they'll expand on this /
Why does Brahman look kind of like crazy red hair Singlor and why did Singlor's plot get completely dropped, I feel like it's going to shake out that Singlor is still lost in time but made it back to Hekseville and has been leaving the "Saghassi" "paintings" as a way of passing on his research through time.
We can only assume the big black gravity evil tower things Brahman made are for supplying the Angels power and storing the gravity energy Grigos collect. Also I guess that the Grigos are actually autonomous or Syd / Alias was helping Brahman with the Grigos the whole time.
As for other cut content, Alias always had a snakerabbit on his suit's lapel, and a very snakerabbity/angry centipedey helmet. When Kat helps Syd at the beginning of GR1 he is chasing a member of the snakerabbits and is about to be beat up by their gang. Who knows what they were planning to do with this association? Maybe the Spy DLC would have been much longer and lead to stealing a third or fourth sacred gem / more parts to make robo Alias bodies / understanding Alias better.
Maybe Syd was supposed to have arrived earlier then Kat in JPL and meet up with her when they went to the mainland, and then he could have started the Angry Centipedes also to have gained notoriety and a search-force to find Kat after being separated from her.
Also Lisa looks way cool as a woman resting on her laurels and struggling to get by, and then also as a cool rebel in her admittedly incredibly short rebellion arc, but I wish she had settled somewhere in the middle of the two character designs for being a mayor / trying to lead. She looks a little silly being the ONLY Lhao tribe person in the game to have the face paint and she keeps it for the rest of the game.
It seems pretty clear that both games were supposed to be part of one gigantic way too ambitious story and both games cut off at awkward points. I'd like to see the story rewritten as a novel or something that the main/head writer could accomplish on their own timeline with no budget/production constrains
Mikey Jr.
Gold Member
Hmm, nice writeup ^^^
Im still confused about the timeline.
So kat is about to fall from eto, but then Syd saves her. But then he gets stabbed in the back and diesssss?
So kat falls down to the world below, and in the process loses her memory.
Syd is now alive and remembers everything? Or no?
He also creates alias because reasons. And alias is an ass hole because....
Im still confused about the timeline.
So kat is about to fall from eto, but then Syd saves her. But then he gets stabbed in the back and diesssss?
So kat falls down to the world below, and in the process loses her memory.
Syd is now alive and remembers everything? Or no?
He also creates alias because reasons. And alias is an ass hole because....
Nydius
Member
I've given up trying to figure it all out. Some larger parts of the arc make sense but when you start looking at everything as a whole it just ends up giving you a migraine. I mean, until the DLC the entire plot point of the Ark exists solely to introduce the second creator and to give a bit more exposition for Raven. The Ark's emergence at the end of GR1 felt somewhat contrived, especially since they left the entire story line of getting the kids back "home" unresolved.
They essentially did the same thing in GR2 with Kali Angel and Draga. They were just there to reinforce the whole "time is different up and down the spire" element of the overall story arc.
The parts that did come together regarding Etos and the events that led up to Kat's "betrayal" that set her off on this journey in the first place eventually all fell into place and made sense (mostly, if we overlook Alias) but man it felt like we took a really long way to get there and left behind a lot of open questions.
I mean, I agree with that we should have more Kat, is just that they ended the series in a way that wouldn't make sense. If they ended things differently it would have been better.
But then what about the Creators calling them a split?. And the girls being lesbians doesnt necesally have any effect in the ESRB, especially when it's already a 12 game. I mean, that they are in sync like you say it's a reason enough to have a link other than friendship/love. Raven has a guardian even though she's not a Queen so something must be going on with her and Kat.
Also, Kat is not a lesbian. Remember he liked Newt in the first game.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
The pacing issues in the epilogue make me think that they realized this would be the last game around the time they were developing it and had to cobble together an ending.
sackboy2197
Member
Honestly I think it's mostly due to the fact that they didn't want to "alienate" the people who started with this game too much. Since there's been some decent marketing behind the game, a lot of people who didn't play the original have probably ended up getting it. So they focused on the plot of the first game only in the ending section, after bringing closure to the story they introduced in this game.
Chronospherics
Member
Just wanted to say that I'm so glad of the buffer image. I accidentally clicked this thread because it's early in the morning and I haven't slept and I just went on autopilot, clicking the thread at the top of the page with the title of a game I was interested in.
I'll be back later when I beat the game.
I'll be back later when I beat the game.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
That's a good point. 2 does a great job of having it's own central plot that's kinda disconnected from the original. Which makes perfect sense considering the first was a very niche title on a niche system that got a release that very few people bought.
I still think the extremely ambitious story was difficult to contain into two games and the finality of the series forced them to cut corners. Regardless, even though some of the plot threads and the ending could have been better, I did think what we got was great.
Take your time!
sackboy2197
Member
I definitely agree with that. Sure, I would have liked some more answers, but what we got was very good in my opinion, and having waited for however long I have waited I'm satisfied with what the game did. Except for no Singlor and Nala, I'm a bit sad about it.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Yeah there was a lot of loose ends left especially some of the side stories from the first game that never got answered. I'd love to see them produce other media within the universe since they likely won't be making another game.
poipoipoi9
Member
The Raven Kat being 2 halves thing really only works if you take it literally, as the glass tunnel place has a version of Alua with Red clothes and Raven's voice but Kat's appearance, implying the reading is that they were literally separated.
I do agree with pacing issues, the first 2 thirds of the game feel very disconnected with the last act, which is the only act that addresses the story from GR1 and with Jirga Para Lhao appearing so suddenly to aid Heksville.
Went back and re-read the mission descriptions. Apparently Syd actually died at some point in the game but was resurrected by Bit. (I think it was the mission description for 26?).
My assumption is that the orphans are new and not connected with the Ark children. Recall that in GR1 Heksville gave up on finding the Ark Children so I don't think anyone would be concern if they were missing again. Chaz also mentioned the missing orphans case was relatively recent IIRC.
I do agree with pacing issues, the first 2 thirds of the game feel very disconnected with the last act, which is the only act that addresses the story from GR1 and with Jirga Para Lhao appearing so suddenly to aid Heksville.
Went back and re-read the mission descriptions. Apparently Syd actually died at some point in the game but was resurrected by Bit. (I think it was the mission description for 26?).
My assumption is that the orphans are new and not connected with the Ark children. Recall that in GR1 Heksville gave up on finding the Ark Children so I don't think anyone would be concern if they were missing again. Chaz also mentioned the missing orphans case was relatively recent IIRC.
sackboy2197
Member
Isn't that referring to when he was stabbed in the past but due to his "will" Bit decided to bring him back? Which explains why he was in Hekseville.
Yeah, those are totally separated accidents. The Ark children went missing some years prior when their bus fell off, while these new orphans were taken by Brahaman for his experiments.
I think the problems with story being cut comes already from the first game, considering there's for example an artwork from GR1 for Kat and someone trapped in a crystal that surely is Elektricitie.
But yeah I agree, I mean they keep insisting in the latter trailers and interviews that it's the end of Kat adventure, even in game she says it yet again at the end. At some point they went with a pretty adamant view about finishing the character (and pretty much the series).
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Right. They wouldn't even really be able to continue the series unless it was with Kat (which they would have a lot of 'splaning to do). I do remember reading somewhere that Toyama put his all into Gravity Rush 2 and that if he were to make a sequel it would be something new (maybe alluding to hardware).
Honestly, I just wish they would have went with a more explicit ending for Kat. That her story and probably last appareance in a game ends with a "bait" ending that doesn't explain and gives closure to her fate kinda annoys me lol
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Knowing what her fate is and not knowing the context is rather annoying lol
Theslammer
Member
I feel like I watched Monsters, Inc.
It's the movie I think about when you want to see someone, you know she was seen, but you don't get to see her.
Guess it has a more powerful effect, but it's nice to know she's OK even if I don't really get how. I really love Kat and I'm glad I have side missions to do with her still.
It's the movie I think about when you want to see someone, you know she was seen, but you don't get to see her.
Guess it has a more powerful effect, but it's nice to know she's OK even if I don't really get how. I really love Kat and I'm glad I have side missions to do with her still.
BRSxIgnition
Member
The only way I can see Kat canonically being alive for that end credits scene is if it's a resurrected Kat who either consciously or inadvertently accepted the final proposal and was brought back to live through her days unaware of the threat that has returned once more.
I kinda wish they didn't create that tease, and let players who have completed the game use Raven instead.
I kinda wish they didn't create that tease, and let players who have completed the game use Raven instead.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Gameplay post-game takes places before the final few episodes. But yeah I agree. Glad to know Kat (somehow) made it out presumably ok.
I'd like to congratulate Toyama for apparently taking it upon himself to make the Bloodborne sequel we'll never get. I mean in both games a faux-European city gets wrecked by a combination of congealed fleshy cosmic horrors and an reindeer monsters, right?
In all seriousness I'm not sure the story here quite adds up, but as someone who once plumbed the depths of Souls lore for months, I'm not too fussed. This game is great at constructing scenes with emotional weight, though I do think the pacing would have benefited if Chapter 3 and Eto had more links (or were merged altogether). I certainly don't think anyone would miss Dr Brahman as a villain - his time freezing plot had no bearing on the rest of the game!
Kat's fate didn't surprise me as the game had been pulling its punches anyway with regards to character fates (if I'm not mistaken only Brahman, Kali, Elektricitie, Gade, and Cyanea end up biting it for real). The explanation for it might relate to her becoming one with the singularity (or whatever she said at the end) and thus being powerful enough to do whatever she wants. In any case I'm alright not knowing all the intricacies of the Gravity Rush world.
In all seriousness I'm not sure the story here quite adds up, but as someone who once plumbed the depths of Souls lore for months, I'm not too fussed. This game is great at constructing scenes with emotional weight, though I do think the pacing would have benefited if Chapter 3 and Eto had more links (or were merged altogether). I certainly don't think anyone would miss Dr Brahman as a villain - his time freezing plot had no bearing on the rest of the game!
Kat's fate didn't surprise me as the game had been pulling its punches anyway with regards to character fates (if I'm not mistaken only Brahman, Kali, Elektricitie, Gade, and Cyanea end up biting it for real). The explanation for it might relate to her becoming one with the singularity (or whatever she said at the end) and thus being powerful enough to do whatever she wants. In any case I'm alright not knowing all the intricacies of the Gravity Rush world.
There' is no way Kat accepted the deal. I mean, she stands still after the proposal (thanks to the people singing her song), defeat the big baddy and then goes all singularity.
If she accepted the deal that shouldn't happen, game just would go straight to a happy (fake) ending.
BRSxIgnition
Member
Who's to say it didn't, and that's the Kat we get teased with at the end?
Madoka Magica handled this kind of thing similarly - even if the sacrifice is heroic, and it's something you want to do, subconsciously there may be regrets. (Leaving loved ones behind, things left to do, etc.)
Who's to say the wish wasn't made (one way or another) during her fall into the sea?
Drillary Clinton
Banned
BRSxIgnition
Member
The only thing I can really respond to that with is "Well we saw her again at the end."
If she became a singularity, that wouldn't be the case, and the only thing the game offers us that could explain it is the conveniently placed "offer" by the big bad moments earlier.
Because when she dives into the sea, the Chimera is dead. So there's no one to make any kind of deal.
If she made the deal, she would be at Hekseville from day 1 after that. There's no reason to make a deal and then dissapear. And the singularity stuff is not part of the deal, because it's Bit the creator who says Kat to do it, not the chimera.
Mind you, I agree with you that turning her into singularity and then bring her back (without showing any consequences about that) is stupid. But the game alreasy has it's share of unsanswered crazy stuff (Kat and Raven being split, the ocean suddenly rising at Hekseville level in a matter of seconds..)
But I think it's pretty clear that the deal was not made.
We are dealing with a reality where a cat familiar grants a young woman powers to manipulate gravity in all kinds of crazy ways, including wreathing herself in some kind of coat of gravitational disturbance that manifests itself as giant animal limbs, a world with multiple Creator beings whose use of power is monitored and policed by some even higher power that will eradicate them in retaliation to overstepping their bounds, a world where the warfare between the two sides of the original lifeforms split open time and space with humans coming to the world via that opening. A world where two fully populated cities display no indication of any kind of notable agriculture or other food production areas or facilities.
The whole concept of Kat "becoming a singularity" is so stacked with unknown factors that outside of the writing team, no one could possibly say what happens to her in the process. What it just jump-starts some kind of pocket-plane secured pseudo-Black Hole that draws in all the Darkness-juice but then somehow goes inert or stable in a way that secures what is in there, but doesn't draw in anything else? Absurd, but still equally possible as any other scenario. Raven's raven made it out, after all. Maybe Kat just had to fine-tune it a bit before she could leave it alone.
BRSxIgnition
Member
It was my understanding that the final boss was more like a manifestation of despair & sadness and such, and as a result would return regardless. (As the black sea or otherwise)
Something like
Persona 3 & 4's
I don't think anyone knows this, really. Whether life would continue on or be restarted wasn't mentioned - it was simply made clear that she'd forget, right?
Well,
Persona 3 & 4
It doesn't have to be.
She could refuse with everyone in Hekseville backing her up & Syd there, but on the trip down to her death, it only makes sense that she'd have regrets of her own. Not being able to see everyone again, etc.
It could be that at the last second (assuming the black sea is indeed connected to the final boss) her regrets - consciously or not - served as a wish to that end.
As others have mentioned, it could be that they were referring to them being close friends or more, and I personally saw the "black sea rising" as more of a hallucination caused by Elektricitie than anything else, but I get where you're coming from, and those are flimsier arguments, I think.
I think the ending was very touching.
One reason I think we're not shown Kat at the end except a reaction from Raven is because the player is Kat. She's reacting to seeing Kat and us at the same time. I'm kind of confused why she's back. But I guess the mystery of it all on how leads to some open ended questions. I DUNNO MAN. I'M JUST GLAD SHE'S BACK AND WE'RE ALL HAPPY
One reason I think we're not shown Kat at the end except a reaction from Raven is because the player is Kat. She's reacting to seeing Kat and us at the same time. I'm kind of confused why she's back. But I guess the mystery of it all on how leads to some open ended questions. I DUNNO MAN. I'M JUST GLAD SHE'S BACK AND WE'RE ALL HAPPY
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Kat was very adamant that she would do anything for the world. Even going as far as having a smile on her face when she left and went into the pool. I don't think she would have had any regrets and she seemed more than willing to sacrifice herself if it meant the people and cities she loved could continue living. That's just how I interpret tho.
I feel like you're trying to compare GR2 story too much with this other game.
The final boss is the chimera, theres 0 mention about it being a manifestation of feels, and the game never shows that being possible. And he gives you a deal, and then you kill him, so you cant make the deal with him anymore.
And Kat would never have any remorse about giving her life for the people, his story is all about her caring for everyone, thats why she got kicked out of sky city in the first place.
And the creators blatanty mention the two being split.
Edit: typing is hard on mobile lol
BRSxIgnition
Member
Don't they describe him exactly like that though before the fight?
Finally beat it, been agonizing over not being able to click this thread until now lol
Reading up on the thread cleared up some things for me... sort of. And it's comforting to know that there could potentially be a 3rd entry one day, if we're insanely lucky.
Anyways, 9/10 for me.
Madoka Magica is the first thing I thought of after beating this lol
Reading up on the thread cleared up some things for me... sort of. And it's comforting to know that there could potentially be a 3rd entry one day, if we're insanely lucky.
I will gladly take a game that stars Raven.
Anyways, 9/10 for me.
Madoka Magica is the first thing I thought of after beating this lol
Hmm, I guess you're talking about what Bit says. I don't feel that he was describing the final boss, but I guess you can view that way.
Huh, I thought Braham was the male time traveler for a bit. The two situations are intentionally similar.
Wonder if they're just intended to mirror each other, or if we'll actually go back to the mysterious couple plot thread.
EDIT: RE: the singing / Cecie controlling her powers thing - I interpreted that as the darkness winning. It literally tells you it's going to give you a ridiculous happy ending out of respect, and then everything comes together in a nonsense, hype fashion. This 100% works with Raven and Kat being the same person, because it's the best of both worlds - one half of her experiences the lovey-dovey epilogue meetup with all the other characters, while the other saves the world and makes it back at the end. Everything is just too good to be true.
Also, it's super thematically nice that Electracite is so powerful and feared by Eto / Shifters (electromagnetic force > gravitational force at a particle level, but is overpowered over long distances/time).
Chaserjoey
Member
Finally finished the game tonight. Holy fuck did they deliver on story.
I thought it was hilarious when the credits rolled almost immediately after that boss fight in Chapter 20, almost as if trolling all those who took issue with GR1 and how it just ended.
But shit, those final few chapters were hectic.
I thought it was hilarious when the credits rolled almost immediately after that boss fight in Chapter 20, almost as if trolling all those who took issue with GR1 and how it just ended.
But shit, those final few chapters were hectic.
You're taking one of the most basic tenets of a heros struggle against a seemingly impossibly powerful foe, the hero gaining a second wind through the support of her friends, community or sheer will and going on to defeat said powerful foe. This part and Kats rage-fuelled power-up when fighting Elektricitie are classic Shounen power-up tropes. Interpreting that as the enemy winning seems really far fetched.
sackboy2197
Member
Also, had he/it won, we wouldn't have gotten the happy ending. The happy ending would make sense only if Kat accepted the deal, which is something she would never do, or if, as it happened, Kat won.
I mean, he tells you what he's going to do literally seconds earlier. And the pay-off makes no sense relative to the rest of the fight where he's stripping you down, de-powering you, etc.
It definitely fits the mindfuck nature of the Eto section, and the writing in general is genre-savvy enough to be intentionally subverting the typical shounen ending. As is, I think it can definitely be read both ways (actual victory vs fabricated one).
https://youtu.be/YBs0jqJ0TfA?t=816
^^ I don't even think the deal is presented to Kat so much as the player. The first-person there is a huge deliberate choice, and Kat doesn't reply / acknowledge it in the following scene.
EDIT: Iunno, there's a ton of meta-fictional elements to the second half of the first game, and this definitely feels similar.
EDIT 2: It's also super interesting we're placed back before the Eto section after finishing the game. Kat literally has no memory of Cai / the darkness, and as far as she's concerned, Braham is defeated and the world is completely fine.
OK these meta narrative shenanigans with the chimera demon giving the player a choice is blowing my mind and now I'm questioning what I thought was basically a happy ending
I thought the same and for a hot second was PISSED, haha. What a shit ending GR1 had. In comparison to 2, 1 really does feel like a short form prequel.
IT's the last point where everything is open before we go back to the on-rails section of the game. It's done just for gameplay purposes, post game stuff doesn't take place after the ending (it seems like they don't want to reveal wtf is Kat after the singularity stuff). Shinny girl is there for you to repeat the latest missions.
chrominance
Member
If by "the following scene" you mean her chat with Syd before diving into the abyss, then yes. But she's clearly shown considering the offer in the scene you linked: "I can't... but..."
I like the idea of "Kat accepted the offer" as a fun justification for why you return to Kat before Eto at the end of the game, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes as the actual storyline. After all, all the other things the beast promised--you won't remember everyone you know being hurt/killed or the city being destroyed or making the deal with the beast--don't seem to come true, not in the immediate aftermath. And though I suppose it's possible that the act of sealing the dark ocean was ALSO the act of sealing her deal with the beast, it's then odd that the rest of the world would apparently continue without Kat for at least a year, since the deal was that KAT could have the world back, not everyone else.
On the other hand, it does seem like there's some ambiguity, and I think on some level it's intentional. Similarly, I think the decision to play the first credits sequence after episode 20 was done to say to people, "you can end your adventure here if you like, everything beyond this point is yours to refuse if you wish." But that's less of a "Kat/the player accepts the deal" thing and more of a "you don't have to peek behind the curtain/ignorance is bliss" thing.
*shrug* I'm kind of okay with both options, to be honest.
sackboy2197
Member
This is the main point, I feel. It doesn't make sense for Kat to disappear for one year had she accepted the deal. I do agree that it's interesting to think about it though.
It's Bit that says to Kat she needs to singularity with the ocean though, so unless we think Bit and the Beast have some kind of conspirancy to mess with. Kat it doesn't make much sense IMO.
The "I can't .. but" can show Kat having thoughts about the deal, of course, but then people around Hekseville singing her song gives her inner strenght to fight the beast.
It sounds anime as fuck but the game is anime as fuck. The latest chapters are the kind of convolupted story that japanese devs an anime writters love.
Wouldn't that make that the GR world is basically stuck in an eternal loop between the start of shinny girl mission and the end of the game? Remember, the shiny girl mission is open to repeat in postgame.
Yeah, this. I really like it either way - either as a really ballsy, complex mindfuck, or as a simple, super fun, 'Kat saves the world and everyone in it' type deal. As is, I kinda get both, and that's rad.
I'm not sure what you mean? The way I interpret it, no one other than the player would even remember the offer. It's just as if Kat won to everyone else and her.
Oh, don't get me wrong, as I love sinister, dark or downer endings to a degree. Something like the movie ending of The Mist is well and truly appreciated. But I also like feel good'n happy endings. For GR2, I just don't see the ending falling under the dark and twisty type of mindfuck ending. The Eto interlude as the queen filled that tenure.
If they had done a dark ending for it, there should be a connection with the epilogue episode and the post-game reset of the Eto chapter. You already have the episode replay function, so having the shiny girl be there is already redundant to a degree and runs against the idea of the post-game representing the aftermath of the acceptance of the deal. It it were so, the shiny girl would be gone and we'd instead have some "random" new NPC comment to Kat about how good and nice things are in Hekseville now that we are at peace or something like that.
If they had done a dark ending for it, there should be a connection with the epilogue episode and the post-game reset of the Eto chapter. You already have the episode replay function, so having the shiny girl be there is already redundant to a degree and runs against the idea of the post-game representing the aftermath of the acceptance of the deal. It it were so, the shiny girl would be gone and we'd instead have some "random" new NPC comment to Kat about how good and nice things are in Hekseville now that we are at peace or something like that.
I mean that he said the act of sealing the void could be the act of sealing the deal.
That couldn't be possible, because it's Bit the Creator who ask you do seal the void, not the beast.
I feel weird being the only one that doesn't think the game has a happy ending lol. IMO it felt more like bittersweet.
Btw, its weird how they didnt do anything with the hints in GR1 about the world being a dream of Creators.