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[Hostile_18]

Just a curious thing really but games that have grey blacks (even on a calibrated OLED) is that an intentional choice by the developers or an over-sight during production?

Two recent examples are The Last of Us. The issue only effects Chapter 3 exclusively. If it's an artistic choice it's strange how the cutscenes have perfect blacks and in any other chapters the blacks are perfect but the vast majority of chapter 3 is pretty exclusively a light grey. If it isn't intentional though it's strange how it's never been patched.

Another recent game Resident Evil 2 Remake when Claire/Leon get out the flash light at the start of the game in the police station the area around the torch is a light grey, where you would presume it would be pitch black. In other scenes later in the game the black levels are spot on.

So what is the GAF verdict intentional use or unintentional error? Games are more cinematic than ever and things like this really stand out for me (in most cases I find the effect awful and immersion breaking).

Ps Happy Christmas you filthy animals!

As opposed to the majority of scenes use of black;

Edit: Obviously the phone camera changes the image somewhat (it's better in real life) but I think it gets my point across.

 

[Grinchy]

I have no idea, but maybe in focus groups they determined it's a less isolating feeling or something. Because that really is odd now that you mention it.

 

[nkarafo]

Resident Evil 2 was terrible with this.

You absolutely need reshade to fix it. Too bad i played the whole game without knowing this.

 

[TeamGhobad]

lcd's have problem doing black

 

[V2Tommy]

I noticed on RE2 and SotTR. Couldn’t get it black enough in some parts, despite being calibrated up the wazoo.

 

[V2Tommy]

lcd's have problem doing black

OP clearly said he was using OLED. They wouldn’t maker it greyed for LCD TVs, because it happens automatically.

 

[LostDonkey]

TLOU is terrible in dark scenes. I did notice that.

 

[Hostile_18]

TLOU is terrible in dark scenes. I did notice that.

For me it's just chapter 3 exclusively minus a mid chapter cutscene where black levels revert to normal for about 30 seconds then back to grey second it hits gameplay again. It's so strange.

 

[Hostile_18]

Updated with a few photos.

I could kind of understand it if they wanted OLED and LCD gamers to see exactly the same thing I.e what you see in dark is equal across all users but that would rely on everyone having a calibrated screen or close to it and also if that was the intent it would be used unilaterally across the whole game.

I think someone once measured the colour usage in chapter 3 of TLoU and certain colours were just completely off limits (never used, no pure black anywhere).

 

[Gun Animal]

maybe its meant to be interpreted as fog or pale moonlight/ambient light?

 

[rofif]

Resident evil 2 is just like this. If You will changethe gamma/contrast settings in game, it will help but ruin other parts of the image

 

[Ulysses 31]

lcd's have problem doing black

QLEDs are LCDs and they don't have problems with blacks.

 

[waylo]

RE2 is one of the few games that absolutely required you to use the in-game calibration. I recall it being greatly fixed after doing this. I did however still also use Reshade to tweak it just a bit.

 

[TeamGhobad]

QLEDs are LCDs and they don't have problems with blacks.

i have a 2005 40" 1080p samsung lcd and it has some issues with black.

 

[Ulysses 31]

i have a 2005 40" 1080p samsung lcd and it has some issues with black.

Time to enter the HDR era! You waiting for CES?

 

[TeamGhobad]

Time to enter the HDR era! You waiting for CES?

for cp77 to launch. ill get a new tv then. already got the X.

 

[Hostile_18]

Well LCDs by their very nature wont be able to display true black because there will always be a backlight behind them. Although modern qleds aren't THAT far off Oleds IMO.

Still on an OLED back light can be ruled out entirely. If all content was like my examples you'd presume you had a black level mismatch high/low or low/high etc. With it been correct it's either an intentional effect on behalf of the developers or an oversight they have left in the game. I can't recall any film media intentionally doing this.

If it's an oversight its pretty poor of them. Brightness/black level shouldn't need to be touched on a calibrated display unless your viewing environment is extreme (and even then youd just set up profiles on a tv level rather than on an in game basis).

 

[Hostile_18]

maybe its meant to be interpreted as fog or pale moonlight/ambient light?

That's what I'd hope given Naughty Dogs status but it's strange how that mid level cutscene is back to "normal" and also how many other dark places are in the game that don't have the effect. This fog filter if that's what it is goes over the whole chapter in buildings, underground etc.

D dark10x if you had any insight for us mortals that would be amazing

 

[Ulysses 31]

Well LCDs by their very nature wont be able to display true black because there will always be a backlight behind them. Although modern qleds aren't THAT far off Oleds IMO.

Still on an OLED back light can be ruled out entirely. If all content was like my examples you'd presume you had a black level mismatch high/low or low/high etc. With it been correct it's either an intentional effect on behalf of the developers or an oversight they have left in the game. I can't recall any film media intentionally doing this.

If it's an oversight its pretty poor of them. Brightness/black level shouldn't need to be touched on a calibrated display unless your viewing environment is extreme (and even then youd just set up profiles on a tv level rather than on an in game basis).

OLEDs and QLEDs TV have made me a bit paranoid from time to time whenever blacks aren't pitch black in games or movies and then I compare it with my HDR monitor to reassure myself. >.>

 

[Hostile_18]

OLEDs and QLEDs TV have made me a bit paranoid from time to time whenever blacks aren't pitch black in games or movies and then I compare it with my HDR monitor to reassure myself. >.>

Yeah I know what you mean. When you get use to inky blacks anything else really stands out. If it's an artistic choice I really don't like it. Why make the the tv look like a cheaper model. Most games strive so hard for photo realism so why make your shadows grey... in a horror game of all games. But then again so much money is involved it's hard to believe it wasnt checked before shipping if unintentional.

Edit: People on the Naughty Dog forums picked up on it to.

The Last of Us Part II

Have a question? Search for answers

feedback.naughtydog.com

And the Resident Evil 2 Steam forums

The game runs like a dream but looks Washed Out :: Resident Evil 2 "1-Shot Demo" General Discussions

There is something wrong with the black levels on this game.. there is a haze that makes dark parts look grey most of the time. I can do perfect 120 fps with a GTX 1080 with everything maxed out except shadows on High. But the brightness is not correct on this game. I hope the final version fix...

steamcommunity.com

 

[Birdo]

Go into your PS4/XBO video settings and enable "Full RGB" or "Full Range".

Looks like your set up is only showing limited (Where black is grey).

For ages I thought my Monitor was crappy, but it turned out that it needed a Full RGB signal (also known as sRGB on PC).

 

[Hostile_18]

Go into your PS4/XBO video settings and enable "Full RGB" or "Full Range".

Looks like your set up is only showing limited (Where black is grey).

For ages I thought my Monitor was crappy, but it turned out that it needed a Full RGB signal (also known as sRGB on PC).

I'm almost 100% sure my tv/console is calibrated correctly. 99% of content is perfect.

Try loading up those games/scenes if you have them

 

[Hostile_18]

Just to confirm I forced full/full and it's exactly the same (it's not a mismatch) 100% those scenes as created by the developers

Apparantly with the Last of Us an early ps3 patch changed chapter 3 and it was carried over to the PS4 exactly the same. I guess the only way to confirm would be to play an unpatched ps3 disc.

Resident Evil Remakes black levels are alot worse than I remember (pretty much anytime the flash light is out). I vaguely remember Angry Joe commenting on it. No other Resi game does this tho so it's a strange choice.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

I noticed this immediately with Resi 2. I have a calibrated plasma and most games look great.

 

[Hostile_18]

I noticed this immediately with Resi 2. I have a calibrated plasma and most games look great.

Yeah it really sticks out when your use to really good black levels.

What would be your guess an error or intentional for some reason?

You can adjust the brightness in game but getting the dark scenes looking better messes up the brighter rooms, so you really can't win.

 

[Fushitsusha]

Yes, it is washed out indeed, but the later parts of the game are much less so, if at all.
Not much to discuss really.

 

[Hostile_18]

Yes, it is washed out indeed, but the later parts of the game are much less so, if at all.
Not much to discuss really.

Well if it's a fault it could be patched, if it's not it's a curious design choice worth discussing IMO

Just hopeful we don't get too many more games where the black level is "broken" in certain parts going forward.

Generally it's pretty good it's just so strange as Naughty Dog and Capcom are huge developers for them to be the ones to fumble it in some of the industry's biggest games.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

Yeah it really sticks out when your use to really good black levels.

What would be your guess an error or intentional for some reason?

You can adjust the brightness in game but getting the dark scenes looking better messes up the brighter rooms, so you really can't win.

I think it's intentional, which unfortunately means no patch

 

[Hostile_18]

I think it's intentional, which unfortunately means no patch

Maybe it's a measure for people with incorrectly set up tvs (or cheaper models) so they don't complain. Still I'm not sure I buy even that reasoning because a) none of the other Resident Evils are like that b) the light from the inner circle of the flash light should be enough light regardless.

I guess the question of how resource intensive is to correct is the true mystery $$$... and also how many people it bothers.

 

[Rayderism]

Maybe the devs had active contrast turned on for their workstations and just never noticed.

 

[Ornlu]

Boy oh boy scrolling by the title and reading "Gray" as "Gay" made me do a double take.

On topic though, it's irritating when you get games with darkness/brightness levels that jump all over the place between different sections of the game. It's grating to me in the same way as a commercial being 2X the volume as the show it's played on.

 

[Virex]

Just a curious thing really but games that have grey blacks (even on a calibrated OLED) is that an intentional choice by the developers or an over-sight during production?

Two recent examples are The Last of Us. The issue only effects Chapter 3 exclusively. If it's an artistic choice it's strange how the cutscenes have perfect blacks and in any other chapters the blacks are perfect but the vast majority of chapter 3 is pretty exclusively a light grey. If it isn't intentional though it's strange how it's never been patched.

Another recent game Resident Evil 2 Remake when Claire/Leon get out the flash light at the start of the game in the police station the area around the torch is a light grey, where you would presume it would be pitch black. In other scenes later in the game the black levels are spot on.

So what is the GAF verdict intentional use or unintentional error? Games are more cinematic than ever and things like this really stand out for me (in most cases I find the effect awful and immersion breaking).

Ps Happy Christmas you filthy animals!

As opposed to the majority of scenes use of black;

Edit: Obviously the phone camera changes the image somewhat (it's better in real life) but I think it gets my point across.

The HDR in RE2R looks like shit in the police station. No matter how good your tv is. Washed out and absolutely shit. But it gets better when you leave the police station. It's still shit though just less shit. You'd think after the great hdr in RE7 they'd improve with re2 r. Hoping RE3R's hdr isn't so shit like Re2's . DMC5 HDR is also shit. It's all shit...literally everything. I can't take it anymore....please send help.

 

[Geki-D]

RE2 Remake's blacks looked black to me. Maybe you just have the brightness set too high? Also wouldn't a noise filter also sometimes affect this? Can't remember if RE2R has an optional noise filter I just turned off.

 

[Hostile_18]

Just left the Police station and can confirm the blacks are alot better once out of there.

If it's an over sight it's really bad on who ever job responsibility it is. This is a multi million dollar production with numerous play testers. It's hard to believe Capcom havent had this feedback but then again Naughty Dog have never patched Chapter 3 of the Last of Us either.

 

[Hostile_18]

RE2 Remake's blacks looked black to me. Maybe you just have the brightness set too high? Also wouldn't a noise filter also sometimes affect this? Can't remember if RE2R has an optional noise filter I just turned off.

Unlikely given the feedback in this thread and the Steam forums I linked to. The default values should be fine on a calibrated display. If you alter the brightness settings in game it also alters the well lit rooms.

Try either of the examples

I'll try turning off the noise filter but if that was it I'm sure it would be well known (and affect all scenes not just the police station torch scenes.

 

[peronmls]

its possibly the ambient lighting but all games come with horrible uncorrected pictures. Thats where reshade and level adjusting comes in. or LUTS.

 

[Grinchy]

Boy oh boy scrolling by the title and reading "Gray" as "Gay" made me do a double take.

I want a game full of gay blacks

 

[Ornlu]

I want a game full of gay blacks

There will probably be one made eventually about a certain Subway sandwich purchase @ 3AM in Chicago during a blizzard!