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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks

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Cystm

Member
why are you so angry

I must be mad, bro. lololol.

"I'm absolutely baffled that you didn't take two minutes to PM me and ask me to make the new OT. Then you didn't even other to copy/paste the code from the old thread to this one out of sheer laziness. It's no secret that you don't even like the game so why in the hell did you take it upon yourself to do this? Also, changing the god damn title pisses me off to no end because I thought about titles for days for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON. I SPECIFICALLY came up with a title that didn't have the stupid inside jokes or anything of the sort and was made for people who knew nothing about the game. Thank you for turning the OT into a worthless hivemind inside joke with no information because you couldn't take the time to send me a PM."


Actually, I would've copy/pasted the old OP but it said it was 171 characters over the character limit. So no, not sheer laziness, your original post somehow inflated itself full of too much junk to fit into a new thread for some reason.

In that case, why not just let the guy work it out and make the second |OT|?
 

KingKong

Member
So it sounds like the new anti-grind measures made events give very little karma and gold? Anyone know if thats true or hyperbole?
 

Bento

Member
I'm absolutely baffled that you didn't take two minutes to PM me and ask me to make the new OT. Then you didn't even other to copy/paste the code from the old thread to this one out of sheer laziness. It's no secret that you don't even like the game so why in the hell did you take it upon yourself to do this? Also, changing the god damn title pisses me off to no end because I thought about titles for days for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON. I SPECIFICALLY came up with a title that didn't have the stupid inside jokes or anything of the sort and was made for people who knew nothing about the game. Thank you for turning the OT into a worthless hivemind inside joke with no information because you couldn't take the time to send me a PM.
Please tell me you're joking :I

I'll ask again in this thread; Is the Euro-GAF guild still active? Was thinking about doing some dungeons and seems like it would be fun to do them with gaffers :eek:)
 

K.Sabot

Member
So apparently ANet is shutting down people who make money making youtube videos of their game?

The natural extension of this would be to shut down streamers, but hasn't ArenaNet expressed ambitions to create an Esports scene for their PvP? Seems kinda like shooting themselves in the foot.
 

DarkSloth

Member
Trolling? It's harmless. Maybe adding a faq on all the ways to get a refund would have been trolling. The game is still rocking my world, but now I'm feeling guilty about playing so much.
 

K.Sabot

Member
Trolling? It's harmless. Maybe adding a faq on all the ways to get a refund would have been trolling. The game is still rocking my world, but now I'm feeling guilty about playing so much.

I don't even want to /age anymore. Too much shame involved.
 

Arcteryx

Member
So it sounds like the new anti-grind measures made events give very little karma and gold? Anyone know if thats true or hyperbole?

Depends on how often you replay an event but they did nerf some xp/karma gains due to farming. The vast majority still give the same initial rewards, but subsequent attempts are drastically lowered. A couple of events got singled out and had the initial rewards cut back as well(a centaur event in the human zones that was too easy to repeat for HUGE xp)
 

markot

Banned
Uh, anyway.

Speaking of wvwvwvwvwv... we dont need more US guilds in sbi, we need KOREANS or Austrlians, but Koreans are better.

We lose around their (my) prime time normally, and thats when henge steam rolls everything.

Also Jade quarry seems to have been doing better, or maybe we are doing worse >.<

(And srsly who cares about the first post and crap?)

One thing I suck at is dye-ing my character... they need to set up a web page that shares 'styles' cause I always just do like a two colour scheme and its always bleh.

gw002_zps223c5194.jpg


I like my armour though, it feels 'necromancery'

Also as an aside, I looooooooove that Asura ears pick up when they are in combat, its cute >.>
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
I'm absolutely baffled that you didn't take two minutes to PM me and ask me to make the new OT. Then you didn't even other to copy/paste the code from the old thread to this one out of sheer laziness. It's no secret that you don't even like the game so why in the hell did you take it upon yourself to do this? Also, changing the god damn title pisses me off to no end because I thought about titles for days for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON. I SPECIFICALLY came up with a title that didn't have the stupid inside jokes or anything of the sort and was made for people who knew nothing about the game. Thank you for turning the OT into a worthless hivemind inside joke with no information because you couldn't take the time to send me a PM.

For real? It's not a popularity contest. No one is going to bother to check the OP once this is moved to Community anyway. Anyone that wants to find out about the game will post in here with their questions. Chill out.
 

leng jai

Member
Just did TA story for the first time last night. Annoying dungeon all round. Fuck underwater sections and Nightmare Hounds.
 
I'm absolutely baffled that you didn't take two minutes to PM me and ask me to make the new OT. Then you didn't even other to copy/paste the code from the old thread to this one out of sheer laziness. It's no secret that you don't even like the game so why in the hell did you take it upon yourself to do this? Also, changing the god damn title pisses me off to no end because I thought about titles for days for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON. I SPECIFICALLY came up with a title that didn't have the stupid inside jokes or anything of the sort and was made for people who knew nothing about the game. Thank you for turning the OT into a worthless hivemind inside joke with no information because you couldn't take the time to send me a PM.

Teknopathetic just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about NeoGAF culture (I'm an expert), but |OT|s and titles are huge parts of it. It's not like it is on Gamefaqs where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over on NeoGAF, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the GAF public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to browse either the GW2 |OT| or the |OT2|, nor will they browse any of Teknopathetic's threads. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Teknopathetic has alienated an entire audience with this move.

Tekno, publicly apologize and cancel your joke title for the |OT| or you can kiss your view count goodbye.
 

Gravijah

Member
For real? It's not a popularity contest. No one is going to bother to check the OP once this is moved to Community anyway. Anyone that wants to find out about the game will post in here with their questions. Chill out.

i don't think you realize what people think OTs are.
 
Roommates are playing this, but I doubt I can run it.

One of them as a really good PC but says the game is horrifically optimized.

Any chance of this getting better?

I might pick it up in a while.

For what it's worth, the game ran really poorly for me around launch and has steadily improved. Radeon 6850 here.
 

markot

Banned
I only had problems in the final beta weekend performance wise, other then that the game has run pretty awesomely >.< but I have a good pc.
 

etiolate

Banned
Uh, anyway.

Speaking of wvwvwvwvwv... we dont need more US guilds in sbi, we need KOREANS or Austrlians, but Koreans are better.

We lose around their (my) prime time normally, and thats when henge steam rolls everything.

Also Jade quarry seems to have been doing better, or maybe we are doing worse >.<

(And srsly who cares about the first post and crap?)

One thing I suck at is dye-ing my character... they need to set up a web page that shares 'styles' cause I always just do like a two colour scheme and its always bleh.

gw002_zps223c5194.jpg


I like my armour though, it feels 'necromancery'

Also as an aside, I looooooooove that Asura ears pick up when they are in combat, its cute >.>

We got Koreans. We need Euro/Australians. That's where the dead spot is in coverage.

But I don't even like how WvWvW has become all about 24/7 coverage. Please give the game something more than points. You shouldn't be punished for being a North American server with mainly North American players.

The way WvWvW is set up, its hard to take it legitimately in a competitive sense. That's fine, but people are taking it that way.
 

Cystm

Member
For real? It's not a popularity contest. No one is going to bother to check the OP once this is moved to Community anyway. Anyone that wants to find out about the game will post in here with their questions. Chill out.

Not everyone is going to, but people check the OP.

In the WoW thread, sure. Game is nearly a decade old. This game has been out less than a month and the thread for it has moved onto a second |OT| before the 1 month of gaming section time frame was up. People are clearly interested in the game. The information is obviously useful.

Three cheers to everyone coming down on the guy that doesn't want all that information to be relegated to an effortless link to an old locked thread.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Hey everybody!

I won't be posting in this thread much at all in the pre-community period, but I just wanted to mention a couple things.

First, if you're in the guild (or wanna be), don't forget about www.gafguild.com! It's a really nice forum all around, and the best way to see upcoming events and such.

Next, you can always reach me in-game at Hawkian the Blade. I'm AFK a fair amount so please don't think I'm ignoring you if I don't respond, but I'm always happy to answer questions or talk about the game if I'm online so don't hesitate to drop me a line.

For questions about the guild or invites, you can always PM me here, on gafguild.com, or send me an in-game mail.

Finally, I want to publicly thank all the guild members I've run dungeons with so far, some of you quite a few times. By and large it's been a blast and I feel privileged and a little guilty to have gotten so many in before things were apparently nerfed hard.

Carry on!
 

TheYanger

Member
We got Koreans. We need Euro/Australians. That's where the dead spot is in coverage.

But I don't even like how WvWvW has become all about 24/7 coverage. Please give the game something more than points. You shouldn't be punished for being a North American server with mainly North American players.

The way WvWvW is set up, its hard to take it legitimately in a competitive sense. That's fine, but people are taking it that way.

Don't pull an Eredon Terrace on us! "It's not for realsies cuz xyz!"
 
"But I don't even like how WvWvW has become all about 24/7 coverage. "


It was always about 24/7 coverage. The entire concept is about 24/7 coverage. Even in previous games with RvR style gameplay, that's what it's about.
 

Teknoman

Member
Has Anet spoken on how adding new major content to the game will work? Expansions combined with large updates as usual, or something totally different? Like adding content to the game without telling people, and letting npcs or the environment convey it?
 

etiolate

Banned
"But I don't even like how WvWvW has become all about 24/7 coverage. "


It was always about 24/7 coverage. The entire concept is about 24/7 coverage. Even in previous games with RvR style gameplay, that's what it's about.

I know it has always been about that, but it doesn't feel "truly competitive" for that. It feels like it was designed for general fun rather than for the whole srs business mode it has taken on.

I think some sort of victory condition would add an interesting layer and help deal with battles that last weeks but are essentially over in days. (And in some matchups, hours.)

Edit:

For a restating and maybe another way of looking at it..

--In any sporting match, there is a set time that two people or groups meet, and they bring their best stuff and their best players. There is a limit on how long the match lasts and at the end there is a victor.
--There are also sporting matches where there is a clear victory condition and once it's reached the match is over.
--If WvWvW does not belong in analogies to sporting matches, then it belongs to analogies to endless wars, but endless wars have no victors. Still, people take these endless wars as having winners/losers, even though neither of the previous two parameters of competition I listed exist.
--Even War has victory conditions such as Surrender or just being able to institute your law over another people, as in form government on foreign land and all that jazz.

Basically, if its just set up for fun and continual gaming, then they should just get rid of the point scoreboard. If it's meant for more serious contention, then it needs a second phase/victory condition.
 

Ken

Member
Is there a Trade Broker next to the crafting stations in Lion's Arch? I could have sworn there was one but I can't find it anymore.
 
Sorry to see the OT go. I loved looking through all the info when I was on the fence about buying the game. Seems a bit much to kill all that hard work but of course that decision is not mine to make.

Back on topic. I am still loving the warrior...now that I seem to have stuck to one class I need to get into whatever GAF guild has space. I see some of you guys from time to time in game running around.
 

Zafir

Member
Uh, anyway.

Speaking of wvwvwvwvwv... we dont need more US guilds in sbi, we need KOREANS or Austrlians, but Koreans are better.

We lose around their (my) prime time normally, and thats when henge steam rolls everything.

Also Jade quarry seems to have been doing better, or maybe we are doing worse >.<
I think EU and US need to do some guild swapping. Europe is having the same issue. The top bracket is dominated by Vizunah Square[FR] because they can sustain 0:00-06:00 in the week far better than my server(Desolation), Far Shiverpeaks and Riverside[DE] can.

It's a real shame, we have some excellent fighting in the day, but it's all lost when they sweep the map at night, and we have to spend most of the morning/early afternoon reclaiming what we lost.
 
Some is almost an understatement, it's like they didn't even bother testing after level 50.
I agree with this absolutely.

It amazes me that they could go through so many stress tests and still half (possibly more) of the events are bugged in some way. Wow!

It's terrible because the rest of the time the game feels great. Those broken events just tear me out of the game and break the momentum completely. So glad I hit 80 and those events barely even matter anymore...
 

markot

Banned
They should have paired us and eu servers somehow for wvwvw >.<

Like have one stormbluff isle in both areas, but for wvwvw its shared... lag would be a problem depending on server location, but as an Australian I always have to put up with it!

Bugged events wise ive only have trouble in the post 70 zones, and even then, most of them worked...
 
Is there a decent beginner's guide to WvWvW anywhere? The in-game tutorial sucks and I basically ran around like an idiot. Found some giant skirmishes which were neat but didn't really know what I was supposed to be doing.
 

Zafir

Member
They should have paired us and eu servers somehow for wvwvw >.<

Like have one stormbluff isle in both areas, but for wvwvw its shared... lag would be a problem depending on server location, but as an Australian I always have to put up with it!

Bugged events wise ive only have trouble in the post 70 zones, and even then, most of them worked...
Either that, or they should have just made servers international from the start, and just have language designations, not region ones.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Sorry to see the OT go. I loved looking through all the info when I was on the fence about buying the game. Seems a bit much to kill all that hard work but of course that decision is not mine to make.

Back on topic. I am still loving the warrior...now that I seem to have stuck to one class I need to get into whatever GAF guild has space. I see some of you guys from time to time in game running around.

The hard work is still there, just click the link. -.-
 

Cystm

Member
The hard work is still there, just click the link. -.-

Or Technopathetic could have just let the dude update the second |OT| since it was apparently too complicated to do himself.

But I mean, why do that when you can lazily troll a thread for the ultra lazy
non
lulz?

Uh... lol? Not to be a prick but your fanboy is showing.

Uh... lol? Not to be a prick but your kissing ass is showing.
 

Fishious

Member
WARNING: INCOMING WALL OF TEXT

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Whaddya know, a new thread. Seems like as good a time as any to finally weigh in with my thoughts on the game. I don't really post much, but I've been lurking since three or four threads back and it's been interesting to see how peoples opinion have (or have not) changed. OT1 really turned into a battlefield of opinions with each side often saying "I say I like the game, but I'll focus entirely on its flaws" or on the other end "I love the game and admit it has flaws, but I'll only focus on the positives and argue with anyone who says otherwise." Not really looking to piss of anyone with that statement, that's just how it looks to a spectator. In an attempt to avoid this I'll try to be relatively evenhanded. So lets kick this off. Beware, this will be long

I'll start by saying I'm firmly in the "lovin it camp." I like most of the design decisions and most of my issues come down to things like bugs, etc so I'm very much of the opinion that what is wrong can be fixed whereas I doubt Anet will change any core systems (more weapon skills per weapon, more carrot and stick). That said it does matter how quickly and how well they address these issues. For ease of reading I'll break my opinions down into pros and cons (though I'll admit some pros may be cons for others).

PROS
-Level scaling: I've been level 80 for a week and continue to play with my lower level friends and have tons of fun. They're currently at those mid levels where in other games I'd still be one shotting everything, but it's not feasible for me to roll an alt and play with them. The exact manner in which level scaling works for things like dungeons is confusing. I understand how it works and why it was done that way, but considering just how fast players level and the fact that I found that information nowhere in game is definitely a point against. So all in all a good system that could use some tweaking and explanation.

-Exploration: I probably spend most of my time exploring and by exploring I mean doing nothing really useful or quantifiable. I find new areas, try to climb things, take screenshots, talk to npcs, read bits of lore, etc. In my opinion the game really shines here, though it does make things confusing for players who like goal oriented gameplay.

-Renown Hearts: Don't really care for renown hearts. I understand they're supposed to get players to stick around an area long enough for dynamic events to kick off, but more often than not they're slow and plodding. I usually just skip them and only complete them through incidentally killing enough of whatever during a DE. There are a few that I like, the most recent of which being the kodan ship where you just go around learning about their lore and answering philosophical questions. All in all most of them honestly feel a little tacked on and I wish there were a better answer. Personally I don't see why they couldn't go for higher DE density in earlier zones except it makes later zones seem "less special" in a game where people are already complaining about a lack of progression. Ultimately the few that I like I really like so I guess I'll stick it in pros.

-Dynamic Events: These things are great. I feel like they're an improvement over quests in just about every way. Starting with the type that are most similar to quests where you go up and talk to a guy to initiate it, those are a marked improvement simply because you don't have to bother syncing up quests with allies, everyone can join in, and they can cause a change in the world. In general there is the downside that players who happen to miss dynamic events will be wandering with very little to do. I've heard this complaint, but personally it's never happened to me. That isn't to say that it never happens, but I can't really weigh in on it without having experienced it.

-Always Happy to See Other Players: There have been very few times I've loathed seeing another player (usually when they run past me with 3 veterans behind them and keep on running after I've drawn aggro). I like being able to help others and GW2 actually rewards me for doing it. I still remember years ago when I played Ultima Online and I saw this player, badly damaged, running from a monster. I did what I though was quite understandable, I ran to their aid and killed the monster. And what did I get for my trouble? A litany of curses about how I kill steal and they didn't need help. There's nothing unusual about that encounter, but it was the first time it really clicked that most of these games are competitive rather than cooperative. In GW2 if I see someone in trouble I help without a second thought and the worst I've ever gotten in return was silence. And the thing is, I don't help people out for the rewards. I don't do it because I get xp or because another player's presence means a net uptick in our damage and overall progress (hell I've done plenty of rescuing in low levels zones where killing things gives me almost nothing). I do it because I'm one of those crazy folks who enjoys helping random people in an online game.

-Crafting: Pretty good system. I like the discoveries and the fact leveling the profession doesn't require grinding a ton of crap I won't ever use. Unfortunately due to the wonky economy I question crafting's value. I've found most of the time I come out ahead if I buy the craftable equipment I want off the TP and sell the mats it would take to make it. It seems that level 80 craftables might still have value, but with GW2's "the end game starts at level 1" it seems odd that there's really no point in crafting until you can make max level gear which requires mats from level 80 zones.

CONS
-Bugs: Obviously. I think some people exaggerate the sheer number of bugs in the game and I've seen plenty of people in map chat claim things are bugged when they're not (Read what you're clicking through and realize you have to consume the item in your inventory!) GAF tends to be more informed so I'm pretty such it's not the second thing. Rather the fact that a single broken dynamic event makes a zone feel sparser and a single broken event in a chain means the whole chain is borked makes it feel like nothing works. Similarly a single broken skill challenge prevents 100 percent completion which is quite irksome. Anet has been fixing things at a fair rate, and presumably everything will be in working order eventually the question is how long will it take and how many will quit in disgust before then. I'm patient so it doesn't bother me as much, but the kind of people who are bothered will probably be clamoring for refunds.

-Economy: There's a host of economic issues that kind of bother me. The aforementioned worthlessness of crafted goods, worthlessness of most drops, and wide variance in price between different crafting materials. I'm not sure Anet fully understood the implications of a truly global trading post. At this point it feels like supply far exceeds demand for a lot of common things. I'd be one thing if these issues only affected people who really like to buy and sell on the TP, but it affects normal character progression. Presumably when a player needs new armor the intent was for them to A)Get lucky with a drop B) Craft it C) Buy from Armorsmith or D) Purchase with Karma. As it turns out the best answer is almost always buy it off the trading post. Equipment is so cheap that you can buy it for copper above vendor price, wear it five levels, then sell it to a vendor and do it again. As for crafting mats, some hold value well like most of the metals, cloth, leather and fine crafting mats, but stuff like wood and butter is dirt cheap. Metal probably retains it's value since it's used in most crafting professions, but wood is equally common and only used in a few. The mystic forge recipes is a stop gap measure and they need to find a real solution soon. As for the equipment problem I think they need to add rare and masterwork salvageable crafting mats similar to ectos so more people will salvage their gear. Make some new mid level crafting recipes that use them and some high end ones that use tons.

-Traits: I'm in the camp that feels stats bonuses and traits should be separate. In addition, I feel like a lot of the existing traits are kind of iffy. I get that Anet wants things to be less mathy and some of the best ones are. I love the piercing arrows and protection when I dodge stuff on my Ranger. It's just that they still have this 10% more damage with x weapon and increases toughness stuff. For some of them they even leave off exact numbers. That doesn't make things less mathy, it just makes the knowledge more obscure. It means the average joe will have no idea while elite pvp guy knows which traits are for pros and which blow.

-Lack of Variety: Not really a problem that really bothers me at this point. As long as I have an excuse to smash skulls with friends I don't really care, but this is a often mentioned negative and I will not deny it. When I get tired I'll just take a break, but I still feel there should be more variety. I don't mean that the game should pull the rug out from under you at level 80 and change everything, but I'd like new twists and types of DEs further into the game. Right now it boils down to Defend (for x time or against y waves), Kill x monsters, Escort npc/dolyak, Bring x things to npc, and Kill important npc/s or objects. I may be forgetting some, but that's a good sampling. That isn't to say other MMO's really do better or that you can really get away from the kill x paradigm, but I still hope there a other twists the devs can come up with.

-Event Scaling: Once events hit a certain point which I have termed "critical zerg" said event become insultingly easy and yet difficult to get participation credit for. On defend area DEs which scale up the number of enemies there's so many AoEs that anything, regardless of number, will die moving through it. The intent is for there to be enough enemies for everyone, but really the same people keep getting kill credit on all of them. Part of this issue is because each wave attacks from only one side (when there's typically multiple entrances) at a time. This is better in places like the Straits of Devastation where enemies come from all sides almost constantly. Similarly the issue also exists against bosses like Tequatl where people will just ignore the turrets and risen and shoot his face. And it works.

-Roles: I'm the last person who wants the trinity back, but I feel the game could do a better job of enforcing "soft roles". I think the devs wanted this to happen, but due to poor scaling it doesn't. Like on the Tequatl fight I would think the basic roles would be turret operator, turret defender, and direct assault. I've been there plenty of times when I'm the only guy within a mile of a turret and have take refuge next to Tequatl. How messed up is that?
NO OPINION

-Dungeons: Have only run story mode for CM and AC. Did CM with 4 people and AC with 3 so I don't think I'm in a position to assess their difficulty.

-WvW: Stormbluff was full when I check at like 3 am on the day of the headstart so I went with Henge. My only real criteria for a server was for there not to be titan alliance. Guess how that turned out. Haven't really WvW due to queues.

-SPvP: Not really a PvP guy, though I like keg brawl so I may eventually give it a shot.

-The Quaggen- They don't really seem that bad, but they sure took their time with the Trading Post.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Or Technopathetic could have just let the dude update the second |OT| since it was apparently too complicated to do himself.

But I mean, why do that when you can lazily troll a thread for the ultra lazy
non
lulz?



Uh... lol? Not to be a prick but your kissing ass is showing.

Keep going the laughs are great :D You seem to think I'm ass kissing when it's nothing of the sort. This shit sounds like a childish argument.

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Well written review
 

etiolate

Banned
-Event Scaling: Once events hit a certain point which I have termed "critical zerg" said event become insultingly easy and yet difficult to get participation credit for. On defend area DEs which scale up the number of enemies there's so many AoEs that anything, regardless of number, will die moving through it. The intent is for there to be enough enemies for everyone, but really the same people keep getting kill credit on all of them. Part of this issue is because each wave attacks from only one side (when there's typically multiple entrances) at a time. This is better in places like the Straits of Devastation where enemies come from all sides almost constantly. Similarly the issue also exists against bosses like Tequatl where people will just ignore the turrets and risen and shoot his face. And it works.

I think the critical zerg bit is the main issue with world bosses in zones, including the dragons. At certain participation levels, they are challenging, but when the amount of players goes greatly beyond that point, the difficulty is erased. More players just seem to elongate the enemy health bar rather than make the encounter more difficult.
 

Ferrio

Banned
I think the critical zerg bit is the main issue with world bosses in zones, including the dragons. At certain participation levels, they are challenging, but when the amount of players goes greatly beyond that point, the difficulty is erased. More players just seem to elongate the enemy health bar rather than make the encounter more difficult.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's because they toned down events or capped how much damage enemies can do. I remember in beta, if you got over a certain amount of people.. you'd pretty much instagib against event bosses.
 

Neki

Member
I'm absolutely baffled that you didn't take two minutes to PM me and ask me to make the new OT. Then you didn't even other to copy/paste the code from the old thread to this one out of sheer laziness. It's no secret that you don't even like the game so why in the hell did you take it upon yourself to do this? Also, changing the god damn title pisses me off to no end because I thought about titles for days for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON. I SPECIFICALLY came up with a title that didn't have the stupid inside jokes or anything of the sort and was made for people who knew nothing about the game. Thank you for turning the OT into a worthless hivemind inside joke with no information because you couldn't take the time to send me a PM.

moody, this is his baby, you should have known better

for shame, he picked a name for it and you had to go and change it
 
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