Support NeoGAF

[SirKicksalot]

I don't know how the decriminalization of drugs in Canada was done, but I know how it was done here, in Portugal.
But the approach the USA has taken in the las few decades, with the "war on drugs", seems like a complete and utter failure.
And the private jail system, just makes things much worse.

I read this last summer - it says the situation is getting worse and there's a call for limited re-criminalization.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/

 

[winjer]

I read this last summer - it says the situation is getting worse and there's a call for limited re-criminalization.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/

Like I said, it's not perfect, just a lot better than what we had in the 90s.
What your article shows, is that we need to reinforce the efforts into rehabilitations and for the drug traffic fight.
The solution is not the policies the USA has, which have been a complete failure.

 

[Ownage]

Nov 2, 2023


From early 2023
1. https://www.voanews.com/a/canadian-province-decriminalizes-small-amount-of-hard-drugs/6944480.html
2. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64461983


Looking at the video and looking at videos of areas in certain parts of North America where decriminalisation/harm reduction policies are in place the results look disasterous and tragic. The criminality is rampant still (they clearly control the streets here) and these people are rotting and dying without dignity on the streets. Being robbed whilst overdosing in public. I couldn't imagine raising kids in this environment and feel for those that do.

Has anyone from Vancouver noticed an increase or decrease in drug users on the streets/dealers/crime over the past few years?

I lived in Vancouver off and on for 15 years. Currently it's a shithole run by leftists in the ABC party and by a ultra-left wing Premier named David Eby. I know Eby personally and he's a miserable man. Horgan wasn't any better as he was a rock quarry meathead who should've remained working at White Spot.

BC has gone to shit since 2017, and Vancouver leads the way. For those colleagues who remain there I know most are unhappy and are looking at ways to get by. It's a sad state of affairs there right now.

Such a squander of lost potential.

 

[jason10mm]

Do you think more or less harm would have been done if tobacco cigarettes were outlawed instead of Big Tobacco advertising their cancer causing product to impressionable people for decades?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, from a government perspective smoking was AWESOME***

Massive tax influx, the nicotine kept everyone sane in cubicle farm hell, everyone was thin so for a while other lifestyle diseases (diabetes primarily) were held at bay, and then folks died fairly quickly before they could collect much social security.

Once the gov got heavily into health care they tried squashing smoking because they were paying for that consequence, but now they have much lower tax revenue and to the surprise of no one, folks just transitioned from smoking to pounding caffeinated sugar drinks and now folks are obese and diabetic with all those morbidities.

I'm for legalization of THC products, so long as they are regulated as to quality, the % THC is accurately listed (like ABV of drinks) and it isn't marketed to kids. I'm even down for an easily obtained low dose opiate for those mu-receptor addicts, so long as they get licensed and trained on the risks like understanding tolerance and adjusting the dose down after a period of abstinence. So at least they can get a clean drug with known strength to limit the ODs. Definitely DO NOT pair an opiate that has tolerance with a liver killing drug lethal at low doses, who ever combined opiates with tylenol into one pill should be executed for mass murder.

Fentanyl these days is just a cold war attack by China on us, they supply the chemicals by the boatload. It gets into a lot of taboo topics here but that whole border drug thing is a hydra.

***Now don't get me wrong, smoking (especially cigarettes and at high volume, or daily dip) is a blight and I wish upon no one the chronic effects of emphysema and lung cancer. My parents chain smoked and that will probably be their end. So on a PERSONAL level that type of tobacco use is abhorrent, though I indulge in the ocassional cigar or pipe myself. I'm just speaking about a government viewpoint of taxation versus elderly support.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I lived in Vancouver off and on for 15 years. Currently it's a shithole run by leftists in the ABC party and by a ultra-left wing Premier named David Eby. I know Eby personally and he's a miserable man. Horgan wasn't any better as he was a rock quarry meathead who should've remained working at White Spot.

BC has gone to shit since 2017, and Vancouver leads the way. For those colleagues who remain there I know most are unhappy and are looking at ways to get by. It's a sad state of affairs there right now.

Such a squander of lost potential.

It always looked like a beautiful city from the outside looking in. By the coast, lovely scenery and good weather. But it's only recently through my friends and more coverage I've become aware that its extremely unaffordable and has a lot of these social ills of what appears to be both rising crime and addiction.

 

[Ownage]

It always looked like a beautiful city from the outside looking in. By the coast, lovely scenery and good weather. But it's only recently through my friends and more coverage I've become aware that its extremely unaffordable and has a lot of these social ills of what appears to be both rising crime and addiction.

Canada, BC and Vancouver are successful, long-running systems for ill-gotten gains and it goes all the way to the very top. Drug proliferation in Vancouver was always rampant. It's a multi-billion dollar industry that's slightly under the table. Construction fraud is a scam that's second to the drug trade, and money laundering follows that.

On top of that you'll see fewer and fewer land owners and more renters in the days ahead. As a supporter of the Commonwealth and the WEF, Canadian leadership strongly desires to return to the days of serfdom. "Keep the workers drugged and mended with cheap healthcare, reasonably cheap entertainment and make 'em work."

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

I lived in Vancouver off and on for 15 years. Currently it's a shithole run by leftists in the ABC party and by a ultra-left wing Premier named David Eby. I know Eby personally and he's a miserable man. Horgan wasn't any better as he was a rock quarry meathead who should've remained working at White Spot.

BC has gone to shit since 2017, and Vancouver leads the way. For those colleagues who remain there I know most are unhappy and are looking at ways to get by. It's a sad state of affairs there right now.

Such a squander of lost potential.

Ultra-left wing? That's a stupid take. Is that what you call anything left of far-right? They're not communists. It sounds likely you left because informed people laughed at you when you said stuff like that irl.

BC is doing very well economically. The party is very popular and well positioned to win another election. The province did better than most through the pandemic. A lot of corruption from the previous party was removed when they took over and money laundering reduced.

The fentanyl problem has been challenging.

 

[badblue]

Eh, just look at the graph posted earlier. The number of deaths was already over 2,000 before the drugs became legalized, and the rise in 2023 was miniscule. It's disingenuous to look at that trend and think that legalization is what's driving the rise - drug use death has been skyrocketing for nearly a decade now. If anything, the inflection point seems to be in 2015. From what the data shows, it appears that decriminalization hasn't had any effect on the number of deaths and may even be peaking at this point.

I already addressed the part about park use in my first post.

I'm not sure how you're linking the rise in homelessness to the legalization of drugs. There is a massive housing crisis in all of Canada right now, and homelessness has increased in every province, legalized drugs or not.

I'm not saying that legalizing drugs is a good thing. I'm saying this video is clickbait trash. DTES was hell on earth before January 2023, and its still hell on earth now.

I think we are agreeing and just talking past each other.

The first post you quoted from me, I said "Decriminalization has exacerbated a lot of problems." Which is true.

 

[Spyxos]

Nov 2, 2023


From early 2023
1. https://www.voanews.com/a/canadian-province-decriminalizes-small-amount-of-hard-drugs/6944480.html
2. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64461983


Looking at the video and looking at videos of areas in certain parts of North America where decriminalisation/harm reduction policies are in place the results look disasterous and tragic. The criminality is rampant still (they clearly control the streets here) and these people are rotting and dying without dignity on the streets. Being robbed whilst overdosing in public. I couldn't imagine raising kids in this environment and feel for those that do.

Has anyone from Vancouver noticed an increase or decrease in drug users on the streets/dealers/crime over the past few years?

And I thought it was bad in Germany, but this is 10 times worse.

 

[Catphish]

Just keeping drugs legal and letting them do it isn't going to magically make addicts better. There needs to be a treatment piece... but good luck getting the government to pay for it.

tough situation.

What do you do? Round them up and throw them in jail?($$$) Let them kill themselves? Force them into treatment?

I would propose a new kind of jail where, yes, you're incarcerated, but you're given medical care while you detox, and then you attend a program while incarcerated. Maybe 60 days overall. And then maybe it's a 3-strike thing where, if you're caught wasted on the streets a 4th, you do real jail time, maybe a labor detail.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I would propose a new kind of jail where, yes, you're incarcerated, but you're given medical care while you detox, and then you attend a program while incarcerated. Maybe 60 days overall. And then maybe it's a 3-strike thing where, if you're caught wasted on the streets a 4th, you do real jail time, maybe a labor detail.

Weren't a bunch of soldiers doing heroin in Vietnam and then when they came home most of them stopped with relative ease?

I'm not sure how effective treatment in a jail cell is going to be when the drug user goes back to the mechanisms that trigger their drug use in the first place.

 

[Catphish]

Weren't a bunch of soldiers doing heroin in Vietnam and then when they came home most of them stopped with relative ease?

I'm not sure how effective treatment in a jail cell is going to be when the drug user goes back to the mechanisms that trigger their drug use in the first place.

Well at some point, you have to take responsibility for your actions. Yeah, life can be fucking rough, sometimes brutally so, but you can't make your problems everyone else's problems. The triggers will always be there. The best we can do as a society is give people the tools to deal with them. If there's no deterrent, there's no change.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Well at some point, you have to take responsibility for your actions. Yeah, life can be fucking rough, sometimes brutally so, but you can't make your problems everyone else's problems. The triggers will always be there. The best we can do as a society is give people the tools to deal with them. If there's no deterrent, there's no change.

Wouldn't a more effective strategy be carpet bombing everything? Figure out what the 10+ biggest triggers are for people and find a way to eliminate all of them? Then work on triggers 11, 12, and 13 and never stop. Go Total War on the problem.

 

[Catphish]

Wouldn't a more effective strategy be carpet bombing everything? Figure out what the 10+ biggest triggers are for people and find a way to eliminate all of them? Then work on triggers 11, 12, and 13 and never stop. Go Total War on the problem.

wut

 

[Hugare]

Call me old fashioned, but to me drugs should be dealt with in the Taiwanese way: life in prison or death sentence (to drug dealers)

I live in São Paulo - Brazil, largest city in South America, and here there's a region with the nickname of "Crackland". It's real life Walking Dead. Streets with hundreds of drugged people. If you think the situation in the video is bad, you've seen nothing yet.

Now, imagine this scene at night

Discriminalising consumption is, to me, just insane. When there are buyers, there will be dealers.

Treat those who are already deep in addiction, sure, but be strict with the consumption, otherwise the cycle will never ends

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Call me old fashioned, but to me drugs should be dealt with in the Taiwanese way: life in prison or death sentence (to drug dealers)

I live in São Paulo - Brazil, largest city in South America, and here there's a region with the nickname of "Crackland". It's real life Walking Dead. Streets with hundreds of drugged people. If you think the situation in the video is bad, you've seen nothing yet.

Now, imagine this scene at night

Discriminalising consumption is, to me, just insane. When there are buyers, there will be dealers.

Treat those who are already deep in addiction, sure, but be strict with the consumption, otherwise the cycle will never ends

I agree.

When it comes to hard shit like substance abuse, I'll never understand how less governance equals better outcome. As if the general public and drunks and druggies will wake up one day and be sober or drug dealers will all quit on their own supplying it. It makes no sense that criminal activity supplying illegal goods will improve if the government steps back. Supplying and buying go hand and hand. When one group drops, so does the other.

When it comes to smoking, booze or compulsive gambling, the treatment is to ween people off it, as well as enforce stricter laws on doing it. You never get government trying to decrease these addictive issues by allowing it more where the treatment is more cigarettes and more hands of blackjack. Governments have to act like a societal babysitter when the populace cant control themselves. And I dont see something like being druggies on the street improving if they are more hands-off.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

wut

If a car won't start, you can't just say "change the spark plug and if it doesn't fix it then whatever".

I think your rehab/detox in a jail cell would work for a small percentage of addicts, just as automatically changing the spark plug would work on a small percentage of cars that won't start.

The way you improve is by identifying (and fixing) why 90% of addicts go back to being addicts.

 

[Catphish]

If a car won't start, you can't just say "change the spark plug and if it doesn't fix it then whatever".

I think your rehab/detox in a jail cell would work for a small percentage of addicts, just as automatically changing the spark plug would work on a small percentage of cars that won't start.

The way you improve is by identifying (and fixing) why 90% of addicts go back to being addicts.

That's why they'd complete a program while incarcerated. For exactly that purpose.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

That's why they'd complete a program while incarcerated. For exactly that purpose.

I just think "completing programs while incarcerated" is probably not super effective at solving the problem.

 

[Ownage]

Ultra-left wing? That's a stupid take. Is that what you call anything left of far-right? They're not communists. It sounds likely you left because informed people laughed at you when you said stuff like that irl.

BC is doing very well economically. The party is very popular and well positioned to win another election. The province did better than most through the pandemic. A lot of corruption from the previous party was removed when they took over and money laundering reduced.

The fentanyl problem has been challenging.

You deserve to be there, bud. All the best.

 

[EviLore]

Addicts should be pulled off the street and rehabilitated, not given resources and clean needles to maintain their lifestyle indefinitely. Access to hard drugs should be minimized, not maximized.

 

[Alebrije]

This guys's channel is something lol

Once You see that fake You tuber faces You know the video Will be trash

 

[TTOOLL]

The fact: drugs are bad for you, don't do them.

 

[SJRB]

This guys's channel is something lol

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

And I thought it was bad in Germany, but this is 10 times worse.

Yeah, I've travelled around the UK a fair bit to some really awful estates and also plenty of affluent ones too and sure there are addiction issues in parts of the country.

I've seen people doing crack in their homes in the really rough areas and you'll see some homeless once in a while smoking spice (artificial cannabis) or zonked out from something stronger. There are lots of people doing party drugs for example and some taking prescription drugs. But I've never seen anything anywhere close to these kinds of scenes. It's another level and looks completely out of control. Here it still either feels isolated or contained within groups of people who know each other. So it's more easy to avoid it.

 

[MikeM]

Im fine with decriminalized drugs so long as the government can act as a safe source. Big picture, less money going to cartels is better for everyone. But people will continue to die and I don’t think there’s any appetite for forced rehab.

Maybe they can look to other countries for ideas.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Once You see that fake You tuber faces You know the video Will be trash

Well I don't approve of his style to get the views, but it works. The vid I posted was the first I'd ever seen from him. I thought he did a good job talking to people who 99% of people would avoid like the plague and ignore even if they may be dead. He sticks his neck out and visits some really rough areas. Sure it's for the clicks, but he's taking a risk, as many of the dealers there don't appreciate his presence and the cameras. I wouldn't call his coverage trash personally and think it has some merits - at least creating a debate on these matters.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Meanwhile Ann Arbor Michigan USA out here as one of the nicest cities in America after decriminalizing mushrooms and other entheogenic plants.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Well I don't approve of his style to get the views, but it works. The vid I posted was the first I'd ever seen from him. I thought he did a good job talking to people who 99% of people would avoid like the plague and ignore even if they may be dead. He sticks his neck out and visits some really rough areas. Sure it's for the clicks, but he's taking a risk, as many of the dealers there don't appreciate his presence and the cameras. I wouldn't call his coverage trash personally and think it has some merits - at least creating a debate on these matters.

All you have to do is look at the guys still of the YouTube video to see it’s going to be sensationalism. The background is literally a zombie apocalypse lol

 

[cash_longfellow]

You can find this in literally every major city in the world if you look hard enough, and it ain’t got anything to do with decriminalizing drugs.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

All you have to do is look at the guys still of the YouTube video to see it’s going to be sensationalism. The background is literally a zombie apocalypse lol

Sure, that bit isn't truthful, but I don't think my eyes and ears lie from what he's showing in the video. It looks and sounds grim seeing so many people in such a state. The data also points to a growing problem.

You can find this in literally every major city in the world if you look hard enough, and it ain’t got anything to do with decriminalizing drugs.

Can you? I've travelled to a fair few cities in East Asian countries, in Europe and some in the US and I felt there was a distinct difference. Each city has it's problem but these areas look like disaster zones in comparison to some of the worst areas in Japan for example, where it was typically just older homeless men loitering around but largely minding their own business and trying to not stand out. Usually they seem to have alcohol and gambling problems, but not doing crack, tranq, fentanyl etc... and the streets are generally safe to walk around.

I believe this is considered to be one of the worst slums in Japan. I'd feel a lot safer here comparing the two.

 

[Alebrije]

Well I don't approve of his style to get the views, but it works. The vid I posted was the first I'd ever seen from him. I thought he did a good job talking to people who 99% of people would avoid like the plague and ignore even if they may be dead. He sticks his neck out and visits some really rough areas. Sure it's for the clicks, but he's taking a risk, as many of the dealers there don't appreciate his presence and the cameras. I wouldn't call his coverage trash personally and think it has some merits - at least creating a debate on these matters.

It's like the plague..

Those faces are a red sign, specially if You want to talk about a serious problem..saddly it's been a trending since years ago


On topic, do not know of this is a general situatuon on most Big US cities but is scary even for just one:

 

[cash_longfellow]

Sure, that bit isn't truthful, but I don't think my eyes and ears lie from what he's showing in the video. It looks and sounds grim seeing so many people in such a state. The data also points to a growing problem.

Can you? I've travelled to a fair few cities in East Asian countries, in Europe and some in the US and I felt there was a distinct difference. Each city has it's problem but these areas look like disaster zones in comparison to some of the worst areas in Japan for example, where it was largely just older homeless men loitering around but largely minding their own business and trying to not stand out. Typically they seem to have alcohol and gambling problems, but not doing crack, tranq, fentanyl etc...

I believe this is considered to be one of the worst slums in Japan.

I agree with that with seeing people in that state…however, there are millions of other people and thousands of locations that aren’t shown. This is literally just showing one minute portion of the area. You can literally find this anywhere in the world if you look hard enough.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

You deserve to be there, bud. All the best.

It is the best in the real world. Well #2 country and #1 province!
Only you live in your imagination. "Ultra-left shithole" LOL a person would have to be delusional to think that.

All you have to do is look at the guys still of the YouTube video to see it’s going to be sensationalism. The background is literally a zombie apocalypse lol

Yeah, this video can easily be dismissed. It's not trying to create an understanding with larger context. It myopically tries to pin all on decriminalization in an attempt to make a wedge issue to influence politically.

 

[cash_longfellow]

It is the best in the real world. Well #2 country and #1 province!
Only you live in your imagination. "Ultra-left shithole" LOL a person would have to be delusional to think that.


Yeah, this video can easily be dismissed. It's not trying to create an understanding with larger context. It myopically tries to pin all on decriminalization in an attempt to make a wedge issue to influence politically.

I disagree, with the screenshot at the beginning of the video and the only filming he did is where things are the worst, sensationalism at its best. You want to talk about how decriminalizing drugs made an area bad, show me all the places in that area, and then compare it to any other big area in the world, then I will respect your video (using you and your loosely and not actually you of course lol)

 

[Meicyn]

 

[ipukespiders]

Philadelphia looks like a great place to get a cheap blow job.

 

[RoboFu]

Here in NY they legaslized and lessed consequences for having and selling drugs a few years agoi and now state and local goverments are starting to redact those policies. Crime and drug related deaths just shot through the roof.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Here in NY they legaslized and lessed consequences for having and selling drugs a few years agoi and now state and local goverments are starting to redact those policies. Crime and drug related deaths just shot through the roof.

Seems like these policies are nothing but pure wishful thinking when implemented.

 

[SJRB]

This shit is so fucked. Is the plan to just wait long enough until they're all dead from OD or starvation?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

This shit is so fucked. Is the plan to just wait long enough until they're all dead from OD or starvation?

That appears to be the general attitude. The dealers rule the streets and the cops both can't and so won't do anything about it except for manage the situation like adminstrators.