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[Jebusman]

I like Kotaku. I don't like people stealing information from devs and you publishing it like this should be public information or something.

Devs aren't corrupt politicians where everything they do should be open. I don't think this kind of stuff coming from respectable sites is cool at all.

Except the moment it's stolen and released, it does become public information, whether you like it or not. You can't just "un"steal the information and make it all go away.

You can criticize the circumstances from which the information came, but once it's out there, it's out there, and I fault no journalist for reporting on it. It doesn't matter if they are Vladimir Putin, or your next door neighbour Bob. News is news.

 

[Tempy]

This sounds like a very plausible situation, Especially with a constant stream of applicants and interns it's hard to keep up who works here.

 

[SheHateMe]

I like Kotaku. I don't like people stealing information from devs and you publishing it like this should be public information or something.

Devs aren't corrupt politicians where everything they do should be open. I don't think this kind of stuff coming from respectable sites is cool at all.

What information did he steal?!? The name a of a card game? That was offered FREELY by another employee?!? WOW. That's some sultry information there. /s

Seriously, you guys are coming down too hard on Kotaku. So what, they reported something that happened. Big deal. The moment they don't, you'll be ready with the pitchforks and torches.

Kinda like now.

It's not like Blizzard is going to use this information and come out with a card game with "stone" in the nam- shit.

Never mind.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

They should respect the privacy of developers of course they should.

Developers aren't your enemy. They are just people trying to make games. And leaking their stuff just hurts them for no reason.

This "us vs them" mentality is ridiculous.

What I want from games journalists is to be critical and to do investigative pieces like the recent ones about why THQ folded or one that Polygon did about the whole Milo thing. You know, the kind of stuff where you interview people and give insight into projects.

Using info some dude stole from Digital Extremes about an unnanounced game is not it. At all.

But I'm in the minority so whatever.

And yet GAF strives on rumors and being the first to get the information, and have these insiders hinting in gibberish like "TEH GAEM IS GAREAS OIF WARR RENAAMKEAA!" and everyone loses their shit.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

They should respect the privacy of developers of course they should.

Developers aren't your enemy. They are just people trying to make games. And leaking their stuff just hurts them for no reason.

This "us vs them" mentality is ridiculous.

What I want from games journalists is to be critical and to do investigative pieces like the recent ones about why THQ folded or one that Polygon did about the whole Milo thing. You know, the kind of stuff where you interview people and give insight into projects.

Using info some dude stole from Digital Extremes about an unnanounced game is not it. At all.

But I'm in the minority so whatever.

So journalists shouldn't report on interesting fact based stories they come across? Well, there goes esports.

 

[jschreier]

I like Kotaku. I don't like people stealing information from devs and you publishing it like this should be public information or something.

Devs aren't corrupt politicians where everything they do should be open. I don't think this kind of stuff coming from respectable sites is cool at all.

Just to be clear, the story here isn't "Digital Extremes working on new game!" -- that isn't particularly interesting, we still know nothing about the game in question, and nobody has sent us any sort of stolen information about it. The story is that someone just wandered into their office and found out about an unannounced game.

 

[kiguel182]

I repeat: We, as NeoGAF, have done far worse by datamining and looking at website or game source codes to determine what a developer is working on. We have done far worse... and no one complained then.

I know.

But I think it's different when a reputable website does it and when a user in a public forum does it

Not that I think it's right either way but individual posters here aren't held in the same regard as someone employed by Kotaku is.

Leaking stuff is normal but I don't think websites should encourage it, specially when it's obtained this way and I don't thing it's the same as cboat coming here and leaking stuff.

 

[BiggNife]

They should respect the privacy of developers of course they should.

Developers aren't your enemy. They are just people trying to make games. And leaking their stuff just hurts them for no reason.

This "us vs them" mentality is ridiculous.

What I want from games journalists is to be critical and to do investigative pieces like the recent ones about why THQ folded or one that Polygon did about the whole Milo thing. You know, the kind of stuff where you interview people and give insight into projects.

Using info some dude stole from Digital Extremes about an unnanounced game is not it. At all.

But I'm in the minority so whatever.

Have you ever taken a journalism class

This article isn't attacking anyone! It's reporting on something that happened! That is what journalism is!

Where are you getting this ridiculous narrative that Kotaku is attacking developers with this story?

If game journalists were beholden to developers' whims all the time, then all of games journalism would be regurgitated PR statements. I can guarantee you that there are definitely developers who are not happy that those investigative stories you mentioned were posted.

 

[Yaboosh]

It makes sense to me that the name and brief description can be ethically posted. But what if there were pictures to go along with it?

Assume the guy took secret pictures of assets. Could/should Kotaku host those images? Is that any different than reporting on the story and posting the name and description?

Obviously this isn't what happened, but I'm curious about the hypothetical.

 

[weevles]

They're just reporting what someone did. I think it is newsworthy. "Private" info that companies don't want released to the public get leaked all the time. Look at Sony's email scandal. While the methodology of how the info was retrieved wasn't legal, the content of those emails was still reported on by the mainstream press.

 

[NullPointer]

Kotaku did nothing wrong here - the information was already published on Reddit. Once its out there its out there, regardless of Reddit deleting the original post.

DE is one of my favorite devs (<3 Warframe), and it sucks to have stuff leak if they're not ready, but thems the breaks.

 

[dream]

Developers aren't your enemy. They are just people trying to make games. And leaking their stuff just hurts them for no reason.

But at the same time, they aren't our friends either. Their existence hinges on making money off of us, and I don't think we owe them anything.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The game information was posted on Reddit first.

At that point, it becomes fair game for anyone to report on it.

 

[Jebusman]

I know.

But I think it's different when a reputable website does it and when a user in a public forum does it

Not that I think it's right either way but individual posters here aren't held in the same regard as someone employed by Kotaku is.

Leaking stuff is normal but I don't think websites should encourage it, specially when it's obtained this way and I don't thing it's the same as cboat coming here and leaking stuff.

Well it's a good thing that in general they don't. I don't see anywhere in the article stating "QUICK, SOMEONE GO DELIVER A PIZZA TO RETRO AND SEE HOW FAR ALONG THAT F-ZEROxDONKEY KONG GAME IS"

Simply reporting information is not a direct endorsement of the method that information was obtained with.

Like seriously, I dislike Kotaku, and this is actually an example of them doing journalism. Maybe it's not the clean-cut, PR approved journalism you'd like to see, but it is.

 

[March of the Crabs]

I live in the same town. Maybe I'll go try and sneak in this weekend.

 

[Yaboosh]

The game information was posted on Reddit first.

At that point, it becomes fair game for anyone to report on it.

Would it not be if the guy went directly to Kotaku with the info?

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I know.

But I think it's different when a reputable website does it and when a user in a public forum does it

Not that I think it's right either way but individual posters here aren't held in the same regard as someone employed by Kotaku is.

Leaking stuff is normal but I don't think websites should encourage it, specially when it's obtained this way and I don't thing it's the same as cboat coming here and leaking stuff.

Let it go, man. Kotaku did nothing wrong. That was journalism. And a good example of one at that.

 

[Omega]

Seriously, fuck that guy and fuck Kotaku. When even Reddit has higher standards than you for running a story you know something's wrong.

reddit and standards? lol

you should check out some of their subforums and come back to us about standards. have fun.

 

[stump sock]

If it is an assessment, you won't get fired unless it is an additional audit that the director or the executives signed off on.
And boy, if the director is controlling the culture for his department and you got social engineered then you are screwed since now the audit will fail the director and hold him responsible for lack of training in his department.

ha, good point. I don't have much experience with auditing, but I've seen real-world examples of social engineering.

frankly, holding a door is a pretty minor offense compared to providing company data. normal doors are hilariously difficult to control, since each person who goes through would have to be individually responsible for shutting the door on each person behind them. we're not wired that way.

talking to some dude you don't know about a project you're working on that he's unaware of is probably frowned upon even if he was an employee.

 

[Haunted]

Reminds me of the story of the kid living at AOL HQ, using the facilities, eating free food, crashing on couches each night etc for two months before anyone noticed.

 

[BiggNife]

Would it not be if the guy went directly to Kotaku with the info?

If he confirmed through independent sources that the information was accurate (which in this case he did), then yes, posting it would be fine. If he just posted it without fact checking at all, then obviously that would be a no no.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Would it not be if the guy went directly to Kotaku with the info?

It's more open to criticism, maybe, but it certainly wouldn't be unethical.

I am going to take a wild guess and assume the people crowing about ethics here haven't actually studied journalistic ethics in any official form. Am I wrong?

 

[Ravensmash]

Guys, you can't ask for games press to evolve and do more than pasting press releases, and then moan at them for reporting stuff like this.

Nothing wrong with this whatsoever.

 

[Reallink]

Why would reddit mods delete something like this?

 

[stump sock]

Assume the guy took secret pictures of assets. Could/should Kotaku host those images? Is that any different than reporting on the story and posting the name and description?

you can make actual legal claims about physical copies of intellectual property. a "word of mouth" report is probably next to impossible to prosecute. they'd be crazy lucky if they could get a trespassing charge to stick

 

[Tunesmith]

Anyone appropriated this gif yet? Don't disappoint.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I look forward to the card game from Crytek next year called Crystone.

 

[Alucrid]

The most worrying thing is that out of this whole situation the game itself is the least interesting part

 

[Yaboosh]

The most worrying thing is that out of this whole situation the game itself is the least interesting part

Why is that worrying?

 

[NullPointer]

I look forward to the card game from Crytek next year called Crystone.

I will actually be surprised if this doesn't happen.

 

[Nibel]

The most worrying thing is that out of this whole situation the game itself is the least interesting part

Well it's because we don't know much about it

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I know.

But I think it's different when a reputable website does it and when a user in a public forum does it

Not that I think it's right either way but individual posters here aren't held in the same regard as someone employed by Kotaku is.

Leaking stuff is normal but I don't think websites should encourage it, specially when it's obtained this way and I don't thing it's the same as cboat coming here and leaking stuff.

CBOAT and the rest are actual employees or know actual employees who are leaking stuff that have signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement. And yet they openly reveal shit. Some guy leaked the ENTIRE 2015 for Xbox here and everyone cheered him on it, and I'm sure he signed some serious NDA too!

This guy just walked in and had lunch and spoke with an employee or two. It's like me walking into Valve's office or Ubisoft's office or Microsoft's office and having their food and chatting with employees when one of them blurts out "Yeah, that Half Life 3 is now a MOBA". You;d be surprised how welcoming some developers are to visitors. However, this man is a sneaking fuck and got away with it.

Have you ever walked into Ubisoft's office? Last I checked, they had a poster in the hallway with a photo from a surveillance footage that said "THIS MAN ENTERED UBISOFT BUILDING YESTERDAY. He walked around the hallways and may have peaked at what we are working on. Look out for him next time he comes!"

There's barely any serious security at Ubisoft Toronto besides a locked door. I rarely blame the companies for not having such protocols in place, but it happens. Kotaku is not to blame for this.

 

[Haunted]

Guys, you can't ask for games press to evolve and do more than pasting press releases, and then moan at them for reporting stuff like this.

Nothing wrong with this whatsoever.

I'm certain the ones complaining about Kotaku reporting this aren't the ones trying to push games journalism to pursue more investigative angles in other threads, so there's no problem.

 

[jschreier]

Would it not be if the guy went directly to Kotaku with the info?

If someone came directly to me and said "hey I just wandered into Digital Extremes and found out about this unannounced game - here's my story!" we would absolutely publish it (after corroborating it).

On the other hand, if someone, say, went into Digital Extremes and stole a USB drive, then sent me image/video files from it, it's way less likely we'd publish that. (We might write about what happened behind the scenes, though.)

 

[Ravensmash]

I'm certain the ones complaining about Kotaku reporting this aren't the ones trying to push games journalism to pursue more investigative angles in other threads, so there's no problem.

True, but the disconnect and contrast does show why sites are seemingly reluctant to go down that path.

 

[jim2point0]

Not sure if the concept behind the game sounds interesting to me but.... that's a rather amusing story

Seriously, fuck that guy and fuck Kotaku. When even Reddit has higher standards than you for running a story you know something's wrong.

Ah yes, some great journalism there copy & pasting from Reddit.

Not having a very good day today are you?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

and on his way out to his farm he bumped into a 343 employee that was carrying a vhs.

The VHS contained both footage of the infamous ET desert dump and that one time Miyamoto did cocaine off the back of an elephant

 

[Lord of Castamere]

It actually went down exactly like this:

I don't comment on rumors and speculation.

This thread. Amazing.

 

[TheSlySoul]

There's barely any serious security at Ubisoft Toronto besides a locked door. I rarely blame the companies for not having such protocols in place, but it happens. Kotaku is not to blame for this.

Pretty much the lesson.
At least the guy didn't get anything beyond word of mouth, well except for free food.

 

[Bladelaw]

This poster truly is an Undercover Legend. A real ninja in that office space.

I'll see myself out.

 

[redhood56]

This is fantastic! My favorites leak.

 

[kiguel182]

First, I'm not going to respond to everyone individually but this isn't about what journalism is or isn't.

Video game press is enthusiastic press. People treating it like they do real journalists that investigate corruption or matters that have a serious impact on people's life is ridiculous. Video games and video-game devs aren't that. Kotaku is the equivalent of Entertainment Weekly not The New York Times and it's ridiculous that this even has to be said.

Just to be clear, the story here isn't "Digital Extremes working on new game!" -- that isn't particularly interesting, we still know nothing about the game in question, and nobody has sent us any sort of stolen information about it. The story is that someone just wandered into their office and found out about an unannounced game.

You are right.

But you are still giving attention to what he did when what he did isn't okay. I disagree that this sort of thing should be encouraged it's just that simple.
Looking for stuff to leak isn't constructive in my opinion. Kotaku's pieces that I enjoy are the ones that investigate on things that happened like cancelled projects not "hey, we found what the next Ass Creed is about before everyone. Here are some screenshots".

Any piece that can hurt a company isn't a good piece. And leaking projects early can do that. And I think you are smart enough to understand that hurting developers should be avoided because hey, they are just trying to do their job like you do yours.

In the end, things will continue to leak and I'll say the same. I know I won't convince you or anyone, specially with some of the attitudes regarding devs that I see every day, but that's the gist of it.

And I get that the story here is the ridiculous of the situation but I think it's a story that can do more harm than good and that kind of stuff should be weighted. Maybe Digital Extremes doesn't care and everything is fine but the principle of it I think still applies.

 

[Fbh]

Lol, the Solid Snake of videogame info!!

Seriously, fuck that guy and fuck Kotaku. When even Reddit has higher standards than you for running a story you know something's wrong.

How's this different than any other sort of leak?
Sure the way he got the info is kinds different but at the core it's still the same. Did you also feel outraged when most sites had footage of the Gears of War remaster a few weeks ago? Or when marketing material of the new Destiny DLC leaked and most big sites reported on it?

 

[Elfstruck]

Ok, I'm coming for you Sony's Bend

 

[fedexpeon]

If someone came directly to me and said "hey I just wandered into Digital Extremes and found out about this unannounced game - here's my story!" we would absolutely publish it (after corroborating it).

On the other hand, if someone, say, went into Digital Extremes and stole a USB drive, then sent me image/video files from it, it's way less likely we'd publish that. (We might write about what happened behind the scenes, though.)

With the Sony hack, everyone was running with it.
SSN, real name, salary, movie projects...fair game to the media.

If you won't, someone else will.
Or in the worse case scenario, it will make public via forum such as reddit and neogaf.
So in the end, you will still publish a story about it and will link to where the leaks occurred.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

It actually is almost unbelieveable seeing as he stayed in the office for what appears to be over 6 hours and only found out a name and almost no information to go along with it.

 

[Visualante2]

Now you know why studios like Bungie have security on site.

 

[CHC]

Of all the studios to sneak into, I wish this guy would have picked a little more interesting one. The story is hilarious either way, though, and the gif choice, OP... perfection.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

With the Sony hack, everyone was running with it.
SSN, real name, salary, movie projects...fair game to the media.

Even when Phil Fish's website got hacked and his ENTIRE business life was put up on the internet, it was widely reported by everyone on what was on that zip file, and you could find the links to the zip file quite easily in these "integrity" websites like Reddit.

 

[oldergamer]

Well I don't know of any game studio that has security guards outside of some really large offices like EA or Activision. The game industry hires new people all the time and, so no surprise people didn't notice you.