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[Saint Gregory]

I'm not sure that I understand the mindset of people who think the Wii is just a fad and it's sales are are going to slow significantly at some point. What is the precedent for this kind of thinking? Seriously, has it ever happened? I fully expect that at some point people who own Wii Sports will get tired of it, but that doesn't explain why some posters on this board think that others who haven't played it yet will tire of it.

Console sales as far as I've followed them tend to snowball as more people buy systems, more games are made for said system, and then more people buy the system to play the new games. Why would that pattern stop with the Wii?

If developers want to make high budget games that can be played only on the Xbox 360/PS3, then that's their perogative. It's hard to wonder why they would do so if the Wii ends up with the largest userbase. Last gen when the PS2 was the market leader and comparatively the weakest system, weren't games develped for it first and then ported up to the other systems?

 

[schuelma]

I'm not sure that I understand the mindset of people who think the Wii is just a fad and it's sales are are going to slow significantly at some point. What is the precedent for this kind of thinking? Seriously, has it ever happened? I fully expect that at some point people who own Wii Sports will get tired of it, but that doesn't explain why some posters on this board think that others who haven't played it yet will tire of it.

Console sales as far as I've followed them tend to snowball as more people buy systems, more games are made for said system, and then more people buy the system to play the new games. Why would that pattern stop with the Wii?

If developers want to make high budget games that can be played only on the Xbox 360/PS3, then that's their perogative. It's hard to wonder why they would do so if the Wii ends up with the largest userbase. Last gen when the PS2 was the market leader and comparatively the weakest system, weren't games develped for it first and then ported up to the other systems?

The counterargument is that contrary to the PS2, the Wii is almost a full generation behind so it really isn't feasible to have the Wii be the lead platform on the big budget games.

I mostly buy that, but I do think the Wii is going to get enough exclusive 3rd party support that the Wii's lineup will only get better and better.

 

[Wiitard]

While I agree with your general sentiments, it's not a good idea to start "milked genre/franchise war" with a ****ing Nintendo system.

I am NOT a Nintendo fan, at least not of what they were doing before the Wii. I think their workhorse franchises from times past will sell much much less that the new, innovative ones: Wii Sports, Wii Music, Wii Fitness, Wii Loli Rape (a man can dream).

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Too bad revenue has little to do with the bottom line.

Profits is where it's at. PS2 makes a profit. PS3 doesn't. I see you're not too great at business either.

I guess I brought this upon myself.

 

[v1cious]

This is a much better strategy. Stick to stuff which is not empirically falsifyable. Games on Wii will sell more but they will be crap. Why? Because you said, so, that's why? Meanwhile HD platforms will enjoy the mindblowing quality of Generic Shooter 135, Generic Racer 59 and maybe even Done to Death Fighter 5.

that's funny, cause that's pretty much named the Wii's entire 2007 lineup sans First Party.

wait i'm wrong... you said mindblowing quality.

 

[Haunted]

While I agree with your general sentiments, it's not a good idea to start "milked genre/franchise war" with a ****ing Nintendo system.

The discussion was about 3rd party titles.

 

[schuelma]

that's funny, cause that's pretty much named the Wii's entire 2007 lineup sans First Party.

wait i'm wrong... you said mindblowing quality.

So Nintendo's 1st party just doesn't count now?? :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

This thread turned worthless/stupid as soon as someone mentioned that no one expected the PS3 to outsell...yada, yada, yada"

That is a complete lie. Anyway you slice it. Everyone thought the PS3 was going to maul everything on the market pre-E3. MAUL. After E3 some jokes were had, but leading up to launch, the same feelings, although slightly less excited were still in the air.


No one on this planet expected the PS3 to perform as badly as it has in Japan, even at it's bloated pricetag.

NO ONE could have envisioned the PS3 getting out sold by the GBA after the holidays in the States.


Now thats it has happened, some revisionist history seems to be happening. Thankfully we have piles of threads to wade thru, and I am SURE someone will do it to see the proclamations of death for Microsoft/Nintendo when the PS3 hit everyones shores.

Ok, I should of said, I instead of noone expected it. Yes, everyone including myself did expect Sony to do better than they are doing now obviously, but I could of sworn the announcement of the price dropped quite a bit of confidence in their ability to grab marketshare. Please, correct me if I am inaccurate, but I thought the newly revealed and shocking PS3 price received alot of negative press from the media and gamers before the console launched? I must admit that I wasn't really keeping up with the PS3 news at that particular time frame.

 

[AniHawk]

The discussion was about 3rd party titles.

Yeah, but the guy he was talking to was v1cious, so.

 

[Haunted]

I guess I brought this upon myself.

:lol backfire total. That'll teach you to use sarcasm on NeoGAF, punk!

Yeah, but the guy he was talking to was v1cious, so.

:lol point taken.

 

[JCBossman]

The thing is to be a success either Blu_ray or Hd-DVD HAS to have a sub $200 standalone out before the end of the year,(my bet is still on HD-DVD) Otherwise they are getting closer and closer to the Digital Distribution time. Broadband is JUST entering it's second generation with services like FOIS, when we hit 3rd generation and speeds are 100MB DL and terabyte plus Hard Drives, it's all over for optical discs. Thats why Ms is doing Zepher for DD(ITV set top box)

 

[Vyer]

Look it's simple. If I am a fan of VF, DMC4, GTA, RE, I already KNOW which systems I have to buy to play those and I already know which one won't have them....

People know that right now, though. That hasn't stopped it from selling.

 

[v1cious]

So Nintendo's 1st party just doesn't count now?? :lol :lol :lol :lol

that's stupid, of course they do. all three of them.

 

[schuelma]

of course they do... all three of them.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol You're a bitter bitter man

 

[Eteric Rice]

We're pretty much guarenteed that the Wii will have a very large install base at the end of the year, no doubt. While it won't have the linkes of DMC4 and GTA4, I don't think that's whats selling the thing in the first place.

Wii Fitness, guys... I'm TELLING you. That game (at least in the USA) is going to be like a bomb going off.

 

[Saint Gregory]

The counterargument is that contrary to the PS2, the Wii is almost a full generation behind so it really isn't feasible to have the Wii be the lead platform on the big budget games.

I mostly buy that, but I do think the Wii is going to get enough exclusive 3rd party support that the Wii's lineup will only get better and better.

I'd like to give developers the benefit of the doubt, but if the Wii builds up a significant lead publishers will make it the lowest common denominator.

Although I think the 360 has shown that it's possible for a system's hardcore base to generate enough sales to make big budget games profitable. The problem is that those games so far have been narrowly focused in terms of gametype.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I don't see why big budget games should be a no no on the Wii. Really, it CAN do some nice visuals, etc, it's just no one has really pushed it to do so. It won't pull off 360/PS3 levels, but that doesn't mean it can't do epic stuff.

I'm hoping some epic games come to the Wii. Right now, I'm especially hoping for Dragon Quest X, Kingdom Hearts 3, and Suikoden VI.

 

[Wiitard]

that's funny, cause that's pretty much named the Wii's entire 2007 lineup sans First Party.

wait i'm wrong... you said mindblowing quality.

When did I claim that Wii third party in 07 will be mind blowing? In 07 the first party will be. People will, I predict, remember Wii Music and Wii Fitness, long, long after the generic fare on which hardcore so proudly gobble up will be completely and utterly forgoten.

That said, there will de some games which might turn out to be very, very good - some fitness games by third parties which are hinted to be in development, maybe a fighter or a shooter which tries something different and last but definitely not the least: GTA genre with button controls is dead. How do I know? I played Godfather Wii. Personally, I'm almost positive that even this first attempt at motion-controled GTA is ultimately more enjoyable game to me personally than GTAIV in HD: no because Rockstar sucks, but because motion controls add THAT much.

At the same time, I'm pretty sure that nothing on Wii ever will blow your mind - it does not seem up your alley. But that's just the way tastes are.

 

[schuelma]

I don't see why big budget games should be a no no on the Wii. Really, it CAN do some nice visuals, etc, it's just no one has really pushed it to do so. It won't pull off 360/PS3 levels, but that doesn't mean it can't do epic stuff.

I'm hoping some epic games come to the Wii. Right now, I'm especially hoping for Dragon Quest X, Kingdom Hearts 3, and Suikoden VI.

I can see those, but I don't see Western publishers doing the same when the 360 base has proven it will eat those games up.

 

[v1cious]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol You're a bitter bitter man

i'm simply stating a fact. you seem to think every single game that comes out is gonna be a unique new Wii experience, which is why you're getting year old ports. since Nintendo chose to stay last generation, third parties have nothing to give them, since most major projects are gonna be on next-gen consoles. so while there will be original third party games, the majority will be either leftovers from other consoles (Prince of Persia, Mortal Kombat), or just plain downgraded (Farcry, Call of duty 3). i'm sorry if you can't accept that.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I can see those, but I don't see Western publishers doing the same when the 360 base has proven it will eat those games up.

Well, they could work on an engine that works with both. I think FPS would work fine on Wii, and Godfather supposedly works extremely well on Wii. *shrugs*

 

[schuelma]

i'm simply stating a fact. you seem to think every single game that comes out is gonna be a unique new Wii experience, which why you're getting year old ports. since Nintendo chose to stay last generation, third parties have nothing to give them, since most major projects are gonna be on next-gen consoles. so while there will be original third party games, the majority will be leftovers. i'm sorry if you can't accept that.

The games being released right now are when no one in the industry thought the Wii would amount to anything.

Already in the last month there have been 3 original IP's announced from Japan and the EA exclusive.

I expect that list to soar the further into 07 we go.

Another point- many of the ports coming to the Wii are completely different experiences. Case in point- Tiger Woods and Godfather.

 

[v1cious]

The games being released right now are when no one in the industry thought the Wii would amount to anything.

Already in the last month there have been 3 original IP's announced from Japan and the EA exclusive.

I expect that list to soar the further into 07 we go.

Another point- many of the ports coming to the Wii are completely different experiences. Case in point- Tiger Woods and Godfather.

sorry, but i don't consider old games with tacked on controls a new experience.

just my opinion though

 

[Saint Gregory]

i'm simply stating a fact. you seem to think every single game that comes out is gonna be a unique new Wii experience, which is why you're getting year old ports. since Nintendo chose to stay last generation, third parties have nothing to give them, since most major projects are gonna be on next-gen consoles. so while there will be original third party games, the majority will be either leftovers from other consoles (Prince of Persia, Mortal Kombat), or just plain downgraded (Farcry, Call of duty 3). i'm sorry if you can't accept that.

Yes, because we all know that when developers run out of PS2 games to port to the Wii they're just going to make new PS2 games and port those to the Wii.

 

[v1cious]

Yes, because we all know that when developers run out of PS2 games to port to the Wii they're just going to make new PS2 games and port those to the Wii.

and how long do you think that's gonna take? it could be years.

 

[Jokeropia]

Right now Nintendo are dominating pretty much through the strength of their first party games alone. It was the same thing with the DS initially when almost everyone expected the PSP to win, but the third parties came around eventually and I'm sure they'll do the same for Wii. (In fact, there are signs of it already suggesting it will not take as long this time. With the PSP there was also still some need for developers to stay on Sony's good side due to the likely market dominance of the PS3, but this is no longer the case.)

 

[schuelma]

sorry, but i don't consider old games with tacked on controls a new experience.

just my opinion though

So let's take Tiger Woods.

You don't think that using a remote and swinging it like a golf club is a completely new experience than using buttons? :lol :lol :lol

 

[Zoe]

Wii Fitness, guys... I'm TELLING you. That game (at least in the USA) is going to be like a bomb going off.

Is there any precedent for that though? DDR is the only "fitness" game that ever really hit it off that I can think of. Is it fair to think of Sports as a basis considering that it was a pack-in?

 

[Saint Gregory]

and how long do you think that's gonna take? it could be years.

Frightening point. Welcome to the new generation.

 

[chibcicylist]

So Nintendo's 1st party just doesn't count now?? :lol :lol :lol :lol

When did they? Barring the fact that they might be the best developer/pulisher when it comes to quantity and quality, who cares, really?

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

I think this thread has run its course. Let it die.

Pretty surprising an Amazon sales thread could stir up so many responses. Not that I didn't contribute my fair share though.

 

[jimbo]

I'd like to give developers the benefit of the doubt, but if the Wii builds up a significant lead publishers will make it the lowest common denominator.

Although I think the 360 has shown that it's possible for a system's hardcore base to generate enough sales to make big budget games profitable. The problem is that those games so far have been narrowly focused in terms of gametype.

This is the part that I don't really agree with.

First, as I have said before the Wii would have to overtake not just one console's user base but the combined user base of the PS3, PC and 360, because we've already established games between those 3 are easy to port.

And I think that part right there is enough to squash the idea of Wii ever having the largest user base.

But let's say it does. Let's say the Wii continue to sell amazingly well, and not only outsells the 360, but the combined user base of the PS3, 360 and PC. Because the Wii is a generation behind, and such a thing has never happened before....will the idea that developers will automatically shift focus to the largest user base still stand?

Let's say that it does for a second. You still have yet another problem even if you can overcome the first 2.

What about the people who are currently experiencing next-gen games on the PS3, 360 and PC? Will they even SETTLE for a port of a Wii game 3 years from now knowing damn well the game they played in that series 2 years ago looked 10 times better?

I know I won't. I don't even want to think about a Call of Duty 4 on Wii on my 1080p set. Screw that.

If you combine the CURRENT user base of 360, PS3 and PC....then you can see that there are probably well over 20 million gamers that are enjoying next-gen gaming.

This user base is constantly growing. In fact I'm willing to bet that the next-gen user base is growing at a much faster rate than the "new-gen" user base even with Wii smoking the charts. What about us?

 

[Wiitard]

Is there any precedent for that though? DDR is the only "fitness" game that ever really hit it off that I can think of. Is it fair to think of Sports as a basis considering that it was a pack-in?

And THAT is what makes it original.

 

[Link]

Some people are really upset about the Wii's popularity, huh?

 

[schuelma]

This is the part that I don't really agree with.

First, as I have said before the Wii would have to overtake not just one console's user base but the combined user base of the PS3, PC and 360, because we've already established games between those 3 are easy to port.

And I think that part right there is enough to squash the idea of Wii ever having the largest user base.

But let's say it does. Let's say the Wii continue to sell amazingly well, and not only outsells the 360, but the combined user base of the PS3, 360 and PC. Because the Wii is a generation behind, and such a thing has never happened before....will the idea that developers will automatically shift focus to the largest user base still stand?

Let's say that it does for a second. You still have yet another problem even if you can overcome the first 2.

What about the people who are currently experiencing next-gen games on the PS3, 360 and PC? Will they even SETTLE for a port of a Wii game 3 years from now knowing damn well the game they played in that series 2 years ago looked 10 times better?

I know I won't. I don't even want to think about a Call of Duty 4 on Wii on my 1080p set. Screw that.

If you combine the CURRENT user base of 360, PS3 and PC....then you can see that there are probably well over 20 million gamers that are enjoying next-gen gaming.

This user base is constantly growing. In fact I'm willing to bet that the next-gen user base is growing at a much faster rate than the "new-gen" user base even with Wii smoking the charts. What about us?

I can't speak for others, but I don't doubt that publishers, especially western ones, will still produce big budget, HD games for 360/PS3. My argument is that if the Wii gets the biggest install base developers will A- make their own EXCLUSIVE Wii games and B- there will be less big budget HD games because resources will shift to the Wii.

 

[Quazar]

I'm not expecting much more from Sony in sales next NPD tbh. But I'm looking forward to seeing if 360 can actually achieve 200,000+

 

[jimbo]

I can't speak for others, but I don't doubt that publishers, especially western ones, will still produce big budget, HD games for 360/PS3. My argument is that if the Wii gets the biggest install base developers will A- make their own EXCLUSIVE Wii games and B- there will be less big budget HD games because resources will shift to the Wii.

Well let's just see what happens, shall we? This generation will no doubt be interesting in the years to come.

 

[Nightstick11]

This is the part that I don't really agree with.

First, as I have said before the Wii would have to overtake not just one console's user base but the combined user base of the PS3, PC and 360, because we've already established games between those 3 are easy to port.

I'm not sure you're aware of how absurd you sound. No console has ever achieved the user base of the PC.

Yes let's ignore the fact the game's coming out to a fighter starved 360 fan base in August.

Right, because the 360 fan base buys fighters by the truckloads.

The promise of the Wii is that IF the Wii continue to sell at this pace, IF it can ever catch the 360, then there's a good CHANCE that developers will EVENTUALLY shift their main franchises to the Wii and a year or so after that the fans will get to play them.

Right......

You realize that the 360 isn't selling in Japan, and it's not posting impressive numbers in any territory? If a 800-pound woman had a 50 mile headstart on Flo Jo, I wonder WHEN Flo Jo will catch up.

Ask yourself this: What are the biggest, most popular third party games coming out over the next year?

GTA, VF, DMC, etc. Are they on Wii?

Now really, Jimbo... You say the "biggest, most popular" third party games, and you said VF and DMC? Really? Not Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest or, hell, even Madden?

 

[schuelma]

Now really, Jimbo... You say the "biggest, most popular" third party games, and you said VF and DMC? Really? Not Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest or, hell, even Madden?

He is obviously speaking from a very limited, very hardcore perspective.

 

[Link]

I'm not expecting much more from Sony in sales next NPD tbh. But I'm looking forward to seeing if 360 can actually achieve 200,000+

Shouldn't be that difficult. 360 was over 200k in February and March is a 5-week month.

 

[siamesedreamer]

I was just at my Target:

7 PS3s
1 360
0 Wiis
3 DSs

 

[JJConrad]

Budgets are based on expectations, not current userbase. Right now, everybody is expecting the Wii to surpass to 360 worlwide very soon. Announcements have been being made for months now, it's not going to take as long as you think. For goodness sake, EA has 3 exclusives for Wii already....EA!!!

With all the PS2->Wii ports and all of the PS2->360 ports, what makes anyone think there won't be plenty of Wii->360/PS3 ports? The LCD was a curse to the Xbox and Gamecube last gen... we all know it'll be coming again. As you've said, publishers will be looking to stretch their dollar ... they're going to do the cheapest way possible. HD Wii games with gimped controls ... :lol I await jiimbo's tasty bitter tears!!!

You still have to remember... being 2nd or 3rd place isn't the end of the world. The Xbox and GAmecube still had a decent lineup and nice array of exclusives.

 

[damisa]

This is the part that I don't really agree with.

First, as I have said before the Wii would have to overtake not just one console's user base but the combined user base of the PS3, PC and 360, because we've already established games between those 3 are easy to port.

And I think that part right there is enough to squash the idea of Wii ever having the largest user base.

But let's say it does. Let's say the Wii continue to sell amazingly well, and not only outsells the 360, but the combined user base of the PS3, 360 and PC. Because the Wii is a generation behind, and such a thing has never happened before....will the idea that developers will automatically shift focus to the largest user base still stand?

Let's say that it does for a second. You still have yet another problem even if you can overcome the first 2.

What about the people who are currently experiencing next-gen games on the PS3, 360 and PC? Will they even SETTLE for a port of a Wii game 3 years from now knowing damn well the game they played in that series 2 years ago looked 10 times better?

I know I won't. I don't even want to think about a Call of Duty 4 on Wii on my 1080p set. Screw that.

If you combine the CURRENT user base of 360, PS3 and PC....then you can see that there are probably well over 20 million gamers that are enjoying next-gen gaming.

This user base is constantly growing. In fact I'm willing to bet that the next-gen user base is growing at a much faster rate than the "new-gen" user base even with Wii smoking the charts. What about us?

You're thinking too much in black and white. It's not like developers will put 100% of their resources in wii only or ps3/360 only. Last generation both the xbox and gamecube had 3rd party exclusives even though they finished far behind the PS2. Similarly the PSP is still getting exclusives even though it's getting destroyed by the DS sales wise. With the consoles likely selling closer than last gen, it's not going to make sense for a major developer not to make games for several platforms.

 

[jimbo]

I'm not sure you're aware of how absurd you sound. No console has ever achieved the user base of the PC.



Right, because the 360 fan base buys fighters by the truckloads.



You realize that the 360 isn't selling in Japan, and it's not posting impressive numbers in any territory? If a 800-pound woman had a 50 mile headstart on Flo Jo, I wonder WHEN Flo Jo will catch up.




Now really, Jimbo... You say the "biggest, most popular" third party games, and you said VF and DMC? Really? Not Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest or, hell, even Madden?

I'm going to answer your points one at a time.

1. I'm clearly refering to the ACTIVE PC gamer. The ones that have sets that can actually run games like Oblivion and COD3. Not PC ALL TIME user base. I don't see why it's ridiculous to say PC's are just as much considered in the development of next-gen games as the other platforms when...well they are. And for a lot of widely popular games PC's are still the leading developing platform.

2. If it hasn't happened yet then it means it can't ever......

3. I am well aware of the 360's situation in Japan. I thought we are discussing world-wide user base, in which case, it's already been proven that a system which tanks in Japan(Xbox) can still outsell a system which doesn't(GC) world wide. It's also happening right now with the 360 and PS3. Not only that but as I keep repeating myself the Wii has made itself a completely different competitor not from just the 360, but all OTHER platforms. There's a "new-gen" user base and a next-gen user base. This is also a fact.

4. Perhaps you missed the part of where I was talking about "this year". I didn't think FF was set in stone for this year. Oh DQIX? WTF? It's a handheld game now.

 

[OokieSpookie]

I think it will take a divine trio to salvage the PS3 this year.
Confirmation of exclusitivity of MGS4, confirmation of exclusivity of FFXIII, and the announcement and confirmation of God of War ps3 soon with a teaser at E3.
Those 3, along with Killzone not totally being crap all need to fall into place.

 

[Mar]

So Nintendo's 1st party just doesn't count now??

Nintendo's non-party.

Spoiler

amirite

 

[chriskzoo]

Right now Nintendo are dominating pretty much through the strength of their first party games alone. It was the same thing with the DS initially when almost everyone expected the PSP to win, but the third parties came around eventually and I'm sure they'll do the same for Wii. (In fact, there are signs of it already suggesting it will not take as long this time. With the PSP there was also still some need for developers to stay on Sony's good side due to the likely market dominance of the PS3, but this is no longer the case.)

They are dominating on price, period.

 

[schuelma]

They are dominating on price, period.

No, its more than price. If it was just price, the Wii would be selling like the Gamecube, not the PS2.

Keep being in denial though...

 

[chriskzoo]

No, its more than price. If it was just price, the Wii would be selling like the Gamecube, not the PS2.

Keep being in denial though...

OK, price and quirkiness.

 

[Quazar]

Shouldn't be that difficult. 360 was over 200k in February and March is a 5-week month.

Ah, yea, 5-weeks. Forgot!