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Halo 3: ODST and Halo: Reach

vhfive said:
new campaign level
showed some of the tank level
. i think thats basically all the new stuff there is. all in all not worth it

Whatever, we go the Bioshock Multiplayer footage! Too bad it was a mess to get any idea of what was going on.

Also Marty playing the music from ODST was sweet.
 
My impressions of ODST's campaign thus far:
For a game that was produced in a year, it looks great. But I don't think I'll play through campaign more than once. It really is more of the same aside from an escort mission you're given near the end. I'll probably play a lot of Firefight though.

Edit: Sounds like squad-based gameplay isn't in our Halo-future. Phew! I suppose Reach will be Halo 3.5 or the spiritual Halo 4.
 
UltimaPooh said:
Whatever, we go the Bioshock Multiplayer footage! Too bad it was a mess to get any idea of what was going on.

Also Marty playing the music from ODST was sweet.
true that bioshock multiplayer looks way to chaotic to be fun but we'll see. i just don't like gttv everything is too short and too many ads.

also not much on reach basically said that there was a squad of spartans but not squad based game play and thats it.
 
vhfive said:
true that bioshock multiplayer looks way to chaotic to be fun but we'll see. i just don't like gttv everything is too short and too many ads.

also not much on reach basically said that there was a squad of spartans but not squad based game play and thats it.

Shit, well I hope the multiplayer mechanics are different enough from Halo 3 + ODST. It'd be great to see competitive Halo multiplayer in a new light (Halo Wars doesn't count).
 
Arrived at the hotel a few hours ago with...

September3rd2009-PaxDay0001Small.jpg


September3rd2009-PaxDay0002Small.jpg


September3rd2009-PaxDay0006Small.jpg


Boring pictures for now, all kinds of awesome tomorrow though.

PAX '09 starts tomorrrrrrow!
 
That Bioshock MP looked like a disaster. The trailer can be summed up in two sentences: "Look at all the crazy shit going on! Isn't it awesome!?" It looks far too chaotic, unpolished (characters were animating like robots), and derivative of every other shooter's MP mode.
 
Blueblur1 said:
That Bioshock MP looked like a disaster. The trailer can be summed up in two sentences: "Look at all the crazy shit going on! Isn't it awesome!?" it looks far too chaotic, unpolished (character were animating like robots), and derivative of every other shooter's MP mode.

Good thing we don't have to blame 2K for doing such a horrible job on the Multiplayer.. if it happens to be bad, that is.

Digital Extremes are the guys working on the Multiplayer, so blame them! :lol
 
-Yeti said:
Good thing we don't have to blame 2K for doing such a horrible job on the Multiplayer.. if it happens to be bad, that is.

Digital Extremes are the guys working on the Multiplayer, so blame them! :lol
Very true. I doubt it'll be noteworthy.

And as for Halo, I can't wait to see Reach. There have been moments, less than a handful, where I've gotten excited for ODST but Reach is what I really want to see. I hope at the very least that it's MP mode is in vein of Halo 3 but with significant enhancements and changes. New weapons, better matchmaking functionality (as opposed to DLC maps locking players out of H3 hoppers), improved Forge, new and old customization options (Carbine start plz), and new multiplayer maps. And hopefully there's a Firefight mode with matchmaking. ODST is barely a blip on my radar but Reach could be the new Halo game I crave.
 
Blueblur1 said:
That Bioshock MP looked like a disaster. The trailer can be summed up in two sentences: "Look at all the crazy shit going on! Isn't it awesome!?" It looks far too chaotic, unpolished (characters were animating like robots), and derivative of every other shooter's MP mode.
i agree i'm hoping they were just trying to shove as many powers out there as possible which made it way more chaotic than it actually is but i wont be buying that game for the multiplayer
if i get it at all

Blueblur1 said:
And as for Halo, I can't wait to see Reach. There have been moments, less than a handful, where I've gotten excited for ODST but Reach is what I really want to see. I hope at the very least that it's MP mode is in vein of Halo 3 but with significant enhancements and changes. New weapons, better matchmaking functionality (as opposed to DLC maps locking players out of H3 hoppers), improved Forge, new and old customization options (Carbine start plz), and new multiplayer maps. And hopefully there's a Firefight mode with matchmaking. ODST is barely a blip on my radar but Reach could be the new Halo game I crave.
reach is definitely what i'm most intrigued about. i hope we get some info a little more solid soon but knowing bungie we probably won't. i wouldn't say odst is barely a blip on my radar though. the firefight alone has me really pumped. i plan on playing the hell out of it with my brothers. their main problem with matchmaking is everyone is better than them when they play as my guest so split screen firefight will be perfect.
 
Blueblur1 said:
Very true. I doubt it'll be noteworthy.

And as for Halo, I can't wait to see Reach. There have been moments, less than a handful, where I've gotten excited for ODST but Reach is what I really want to see. I hope at the very least that it's MP mode is in vein of Halo 3 but with significant enhancements and changes. New weapons, better matchmaking functionality (as opposed to DLC maps locking players out of H3 hoppers), improved Forge, new and old customization options (Carbine start plz), and new multiplayer maps. And hopefully there's a Firefight mode with matchmaking. ODST is barely a blip on my radar but Reach could be the new Halo game I crave.

I'm with you there, although I hope that the Multiplayer doesn't resemble Halo 3's too much.

From what little we know about Reach and it's supposed "AAA Engine", that's teasing us enough. It could potentially the best looking game we've seen on the 360 so far. It would be nice to have such a nice looking Halo game in the 360 library.
 
"Barely a blip" is admittedly an exaggeration. I'm looking forward to it but not as much as I did previous Halo games. The campaign might be alright when I play it myself and Firefight will definitely be fun. I just know not to expect too much from ODST but Reach is still a mystery. And I love mysteries.
 
In Seattle.


Current topic: ODST looks sweet. I definitely don't have the full Halo release hype but it's my most anticipated title this year. I'm really looking forward to what Bungie does for their final Halo release but have quite a bit of franchise fatigue so their New IP game is by far my most anticipated.
 
Tashi0106 said:
Shit, I missed the GTTV ish too. I was too busy getting my ass kicked in matchmaking. :/

Speaking of asses being kicked in Matchmaking: I tried my hand at Matchmaking for the first time in like 2 months today. Let's just say I didn't do so hot my first couple of matches. I've lost my touch. :(
 
Waiting for games is such a pain. :(

To try and pass the time I delved around in forge for a while. That is until I got sick of my ineptitude and discarded my failure.

Here is a part of a base in my latest failure:
92601528-Full-1.jpg


Map is symmetrical.

I really don't like that stupid wooden area on the right.
The top was supposed to be filled in with wood which both negates the bumping of the underlying blocks and also looks pretty nice.

There's supposed to be a long chain of blocks and/or walls that hooks round from the right side into the middle and runs most of the way across the centre.
(with ramps and openings, etc.)
A bridge between that and the double block protruding from the front.
A large neutral base in a similar position to the one found on 'workplace bravo'. (just at the 'feet' of the two walls.

Worst of all... there was supposed to be prowlers. :(

Damn my terrible forge skills and my lack of patience! Damn them!


I might pick it up eventually, currently I am too annoyed. ¬_¬'
 
Does ODST have the real-time dynamic lighting for the gameplay this time around? Halo 2 and 3 did it really well for the cut-scenes, but it was absent from the actual game.
 
Domino Theory said:
What did Joe mean when he said Reach could be Squad-based, but "without the extra baggage that a Squad-based shooter carries"?

Hypeeeeee.

I took it as him meaning that yeah, they're there with you from start to finish but have their own unique A.I. to govern what they do, you don't have to control them yourself (which is how it usually is in traditional squad based shooters ie "extra baggage").
 
Truant said:
Does ODST have the real-time dynamic lighting for the gameplay this time around? Halo 2 and 3 did it really well for the cut-scenes, but it was absent from the actual game.

Nope. At least not like Doom 3 or GTA IV.
 
Thermite said:
I took it as him meaning that yeah, they're there with you from start to finish but have their own unique A.I. to govern what they do, you don't have to control them yourself (which is how it usually is in traditional squad based shooters ie "extra baggage").

Thermite
Member
(Today, 01:17 AM)
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A squad based shooter without the babysitting? Count me in.

I'd still want a simple way to order them around though. Like two buttons dedicated to let them follow my lead or hold position. That's more than enough.
 
Domino Theory said:
Thanks for confirming that Master Chief will be in Reach as a playable FireFight 2 character if you pre-order Halo: Reach from your local SafeWay.

Just be sure to keep an eye on Jiff Knightly's twitter in the coming weeks for all the EXCLUSIVE information.
lol
 
Frenck said:
Nope. At least not like Doom 3 or GTA IV.

Damn. After Crysis and Killzone, games without dynamic shadows really feel a little dated. Especially stuff that looks great in most other respects.
 
I really like the look of the SMG in ODST. The added component makes it look good. I hope they work on that stuff for Reach. I don't expect Killzone 2/modern warfare type weapons but they should focus on that. The weapons should have good textures.
 
Truant said:
Damn. After Crysis and Killzone, games without dynamic shadows really feel a little dated. Especially stuff that looks great in most other respects.

Agreed. I'd be disappointed if Reach or whatever 343 is cooking up doesn't have dynamic shadowing.
 
Long time no see, Halo 3 Official Thr... a what now?!

EazyB said:
Current topic: ODST looks sweet. I definitely don't have the full Halo release hype but it's my most anticipated title this year. I'm really looking forward to what Bungie does for their final Halo release but have quite a bit of franchise fatigue so their New IP game is by far my most anticipated.
It's the opposite for me, I'm in absolutely no rush to get out of my Bungie Halo comfort zone.
I love my Halo 3, but there are so many things wrong with it, I'm afraid of what might happen if their new IP is something radically different, when they work without a formula they've pretty much perfected before.
Right now, I'm more eager to see what Vandelay 343 Industries is up to and what they can do.


Aaanyway, a while ago I went to pre-order ODST through the internets (even though I'm not getting a Johnson :( ) and saw this gem of a description on the store's site.
Translated from really awkward Polish:
"The action starts when a United Nations Space Command (UNSC) unit returns from the planet New Mombas. As Orbital Drop Shock Trooper the player's goal is cleaning up the mess that has been left there. This can be achieved basically alone, for every member of the squad has been suitably trained and equipped to deal even alone with the enemy's superior numbers.

Halo 3: ODST however, is for the most part a multiplayer mode through the LIVE Arcade service. The whole campaign can be finished with combined efforts of max. four people taking part in the fun, but in the case of acting solo, the fight is also possible - then the focus goes to hiding and the element of surprise."
Man, I can't wait to clean up this New Mombas planet I just returned from! Hype +1!
 
Flipyap said:
Long time no see, Halo 3 Official Thr... a what now?!
Good to see you post again. I was starting to get worried.

I'm watching the GTTV footage, and they gave a good tidbit about ODST: there won't be any Flood (at least in campaign).

The
tank sequence in one of the campaign flashbacks looked like a lot of fun. Then again, anything involving the tank is fun.

Also,

2ce4y8y.jpg


I'm guessing D360 is Dan, but I didn't know Domino was playing Firefight already.
 
I love the extra bloom they seem to have added to ODST, would have loved Halo 3 to be full of OTT bloom effects too as I am a whore for the effect.
 
Flipyap said:
Long time no see, Halo 3 Official Thr... a what now?!


It's the opposite for me, I'm in absolutely no rush to get out of my Bungie Halo comfort zone.
I love my Halo 3, but there are so many things wrong with it, I'm afraid of what might happen if their new IP is something radically different, when they work without a formula they've pretty much perfected before.
Right now, I'm more eager to see what Vandelay 343 Industries is up to and what they can do.


Aaanyway, a while ago I went to pre-order ODST through the internets (even though I'm not getting a Johnson :( ) and saw this gem of a description on the store's site.
Translated from really awkward Polish:

Man, I can't wait to clean up this New Mombas planet I just returned from! Hype +1!
:lol :lol wtfisthisshit
 
Diablohead said:
I love the extra bloom they seem to have added to ODST, would have loved Halo 3 to be full of OTT bloom effects too as I am a whore for the effect.

Seems like the visr mode adds a fair bit of bloom to the darker levels. From what I've seen at least. Bloom is fun (see Geo Wars 2) but my eyes would burn in their sockets if the whole game had those levels of bloomitude
 
Last night...

Ghaleon i played on you r Sandbox 2.6 (?) Level with my boy Blu ...it was pretty cool, but the man cannons are way to big of a give away to location.

Also we played some big team...first time in a long time...decided it was a good place to try for the killtacular and perfection achievements...I was right and got both...just on the wrong stage ;) good times.
 
Truant said:
Damn. After Crysis and Killzone, games without dynamic shadows really feel a little dated. Especially stuff that looks great in most other respects.

There are various levels of dynamic lighting and shadows, and Halo 3 certainly uses dynamic shadows. In general, precalculated lighting looks better than most completely dynamically lit lighting, until you throw dynamic objects into the mix (like any game will have), and then you have to find the best way to mix precalculated lighting with dynamic lights and dynamic objects. There are various pros and cons to each though. For example, precalculated lighting is many times faster than completely dynamic lighting, especially as the dynamic lighting tries to approach the quality of precalculated lighting (things like global illumination and radiosity, for example). Completely dynamic lighting is ... well, completely dynamic, so lights can be turned off, moved, etc. and it affects everything in the scene.

Halo 3 uses a technique where they use pre-calculated lighting and shadows for static geometry (stuff that doesn't move), and then dynamic lighting for stuff that's dynamic. The static geometry also receives additional dynamic lighting when a dynamic light source (such as an explosion) is nearby.

In Halo 3, I believe only one shadow is cast per dynamic object. Each dynamic object, such as a player, is constantly calculating the most significant light based on their current location.

As far as I can tell it uses technique for dynamic shadow known as modulative texture shadow mapping which essentially renders the fully lit scene and then projects the shadow for a dynamic object onto its surroundings and darkens that area. You might be saying to yourself "well obviously, that's what a shadow is right?", but that's not actually how light works in real life, but is how it has to be done when using precalculated lightmaps.

Other games do this as well, of course, with small variations. Half Life 2 and Gears of War, for example.

This is actually completely different from an additive lighting and shadowing system such as Crysis (that doesn't use precalculated lightmaps), where instead of darkening the shadowed area after the lighting has been applied to the scene, it calculates a shadow map per light and uses it as a mask while that particular light is being applied to the scene.

In Halo 3 you can see the most significant light being changed as you move your character around. For example, let's say you're standing in a room with a ceiling light. and it's the most significant light, then move into another room with a closer light. At a certain point the shadow will move from the previous most significant light to the new one. Watch for it when viewing a replay in theatre mode.

Another thing though is that not every dynamic object casts a shadow in Halo 3. For the most part, only the players, vehicles, weapons, and specific dynamic objects cast shadows, and that's the biggest problem with precalculated lighting that needs to be addressed.

Especially when you throw Forge into the mix, where none (or not many) of the major world building objects that you place in Forge cast shadows.

I'm actually working on some code as a side project which can calculate lightmaps using the GPU fast enough to allow a developer to generate precalculated lighting within a few seconds, which is fast enough to load a map and precalculate the lighting immediately.
 
Falagard said:
There are various levels of dynamic lighting and shadows, and Halo 3 certainly uses dynamic shadows. In general, precalculated lighting looks better than most completely dynamically lit lighting, until you throw dynamic objects into the mix (like any game will have), and then you have to find the best way to mix precalculated lighting with dynamic lights and dynamic objects. There are various pros and cons to each though. For example, precalculated lighting is many times faster than completely dynamic lighting, especially as the dynamic lighting tries to approach the quality of precalculated lighting (things like global illumination and radiosity, for example). Completely dynamic lighting is ... well, completely dynamic, so lights can be turned off, moved, etc. and it affects everything in the scene.

Halo 3 uses a technique where they use pre-calculated lighting and shadows for static geometry (stuff that doesn't move), and then dynamic lighting for stuff that's dynamic. The static geometry also receives additional dynamic lighting when a dynamic light source (such as an explosion) is nearby.

In Halo 3, I believe only one shadow is cast per dynamic object. Each dynamic object, such as a player, is constantly calculating the most significant light based on their current location.

As far as I can tell it uses technique for dynamic shadow known as modulative texture shadow mapping which essentially renders the fully lit scene and then projects the shadow for a dynamic object onto its surroundings and darkens that area. You might be saying to yourself "well obviously, that's what a shadow is right?", but that's not actually how light works in real life, but is how it has to be done when using precalculated lightmaps.

Other games do this as well, of course, with small variations. Half Life 2 and Gears of War, for example.

This is actually completely different from an additive lighting and shadowing system such as Crysis (that doesn't use precalculated lightmaps), where instead of darkening the shadowed area after the lighting has been applied to the scene, it calculates a shadow map per light and uses it as a mask while that particular light is being applied to the scene.

In Halo 3 you can see the most significant light being changed as you move your character around. For example, let's say you're standing in a room with a ceiling light. and it's the most significant light, then move into another room with a closer light. At a certain point the shadow will move from the previous most significant light to the new one. Watch for it when viewing a replay in theatre mode.

Another thing though is that not every dynamic object casts a shadow in Halo 3. For the most part, only the players, vehicles, weapons, and specific dynamic objects casts shadows, and that's the biggest problem with precalculated lighting that needs to be addressed.

Alright, thanks for an informative reply. In my view, Halo 3 looks pretty 'simple', although I know there's probably a ton of shit that goes on behinds the scenes. I think that a lighting system similar to Killzone 2, where everything has a shadow and reacts to lighting (as far as I can tell) would make the game look a lot better. I don't know a single thing about tech, so don't get upset if I'm saying something stupid or what have you. Just my uninformed opinion.
 
Truant said:
Alright, thanks for an informative reply. In my view, Halo 3 looks pretty 'simple', although I know there's probably a ton of shit that goes on behinds the scenes. I think that a lighting system similar to Killzone 2, where everything has a shadow and reacts to lighting (as far as I can tell) would make the game look a lot better. I don't know a single thing about tech, so don't get upset if I'm saying something stupid or what have you. Just my uninformed opinion.

Yeah, sorry for the wall of text. The fact is that Halo's lighting is targeted towards having the highest performance possible and lowest memory footprint possible so they fit other features in that most other console games don't have, such as recording gameplay for replays and dozens of vehicles fighting on giant maps, 4 player co-op, etc. while still looking pretty good, even if it's not completely fantasorgasmic.
 
squidhands said:
t-minus 4 hours and 30 minutes until I get to play some Firefight, gah! Can't wait and I'll most likely report back with pics. :D

You playin' Fustoms tonight? Or is your trek to the truck going to Halo you out?

OT: Are they really doing MP in Bioshock 2? Christ. How far has Looking Glass fallen? *Pets SS2 box* It's not your fault they are butchering you =*(

Between ODST and L4D2 I'm glad that I'll have plenty of MP options other than traditional MM/Adversarial MP.

~B.B.
 
BerserkerBarage said:
You playin' Fustoms tonight? Or is your trek to the truck going to Halo you out?
It's a possibility, but probably not until much later tonight (11-12 central). I'll hit you guys up if I get on, if nothing else but to talk about how aweseome Firefight is. :D
 
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