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[The Librarian]

I would hope you're the only one who loved everything about Reach. :X The awful bloom mechanics, the replaced power-ups with loadouts that had AAs that each broke the game in their own way (sans Hologram), the ugly desaturated look with that grain filter over everything, maps that were taken from the campaign space making everything feel the same. And let's not forget Forge World with its frame rate issues and maps of gray blocks everywhere.

No, I hope the moment 4 hits that it takes little to no inspiration from Reach and that it gets forgotten. Bungie's swan song is ODST, Reach was just a mess.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Why do you say that? I mean, certainly ODST took some risks with the campaign – not touching the basic gameplay, but putting it in a different situation. Overall it paid off spectacularly, whereas with all the risks Reach took – AAs, bloom, etc – most of those didn't work out so well.

 

[Conor 419]

I love floatiness in Halo, I like being able to manoeuvre swiftly and effortlessly.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Wait a minute.

The models are so high res? Why, has the 360 suddenly had a jump in power?

Well nothing in game has been shown from Halo 4, so everything seen has been CG or toys of MC. If you mean how do people expect the game to look better then I suppose the answer would be art usage and optimization of the game engine. Reach looks pretty nice so I imagine Halo 4 will look really good as long as the art work is solid.

 

[Navidson REC]

I love floatiness in Halo, I like being able to manoeuvre swiftly and effortlessly.

I love the latter too but feel like the "floatiness" may impede on just that. After all, you are faster when your feet actually touch the ground. Mid-air, on the other hand, you can't really do that much.

I'm all for higher jumps though.

And as for the jumping in Halo 3... Maybe it's just that I'm not used to it, actually. Now that I think about it, I don't remember any problems with it back when it was the latest Halo and I didn't play anything else...

Oh well, let's just hope that 4 does it best.

 

[Rickenslacker]

That's an interesting way to look at it. Why do you say that? I mean, certainly ODST took some risks with the campaign – not touching the basic gameplay, but putting it in a different situation. Overall it paid off spectacularly, whereas with all the risks Reach took – AAs, bloom, etc – most of those didn't work out so well.

Pretty much what you said. In terms of setting and character ODST took a twist on the whole placing you on a ring as a super soldier and changed it to roaming around a desolate Mombasa with bitchin' sax in the background. It managed to hark back to the things I originally enjoyed about the series like the grenade arcs and power, as well as a scoped pistol. It brought along a new mode that works well with Halo's improvisatory mechanics, and it packages the complete version of the best Halo multiplayer on 360. I still consider it the single best Halo purchase you can make on the 360.

It's really all about the execution as on paper Reach seems great, which is why we were all hyped for it before it came out.

 

[Stinkles]

Pretty much what you said. In terms of setting and character ODST took a twist on the whole placing you on a ring as a super soldier and changed it to roaming around a desolate Mombasa with bitchin' sax in the background. It managed to hark back to the things I originally enjoyed about the series like the grenade arcs and power, as well as a scoped pistol. It brought along a new mode that works well with Halo's improvisatory mechanics, and it packages the complete version of the best Halo multiplayer on 360. I still consider it the single best Halo purchase you can make on the 360.

It's really all about the execution as on paper Reach seems great, which is why we were all hyped for it before it came out.

True story. Randomly bumped into the sax player from ODST (who I had never met) in the sci-fi aisle at Seattle's University Bookstore.

 

[Conor 419]

I love the latter too but feel like the "floatiness" may impede on just that. After all, you are faster when your feet actually touch the ground. Mid-air, on the other hand, you can't really do that much.

I'm all for higher jumps though.

And as for the jumping in Halo 3... Maybe it's just that I'm not used to it, actually. Now that I think about it, I don't remember any problems with it back when it was the latest Halo and I didn't play anything else...

Oh well, let's just hope that 4 does it best.

Not just higher jumps but longer ones, what I've always liked about the earlier Halo's is the movement. I'd love them to incorporate more platforming into the games.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

That's an interesting way to look at it. Why do you say that? I mean, certainly ODST took some risks with the campaign – not touching the basic gameplay, but putting it in a different situation. Overall it paid off spectacularly, whereas with all the risks Reach took – AAs, bloom, etc – most of those didn't work out so well.

because odst felt like something bungie wanted to do with it.

Reach felt like something that the fans/microsoft wanted bungie to do with it.

ODST was able to recapture a lot of the feeling of exploration that was lost in 2/3/reach, it got rid of the equipment which muddied up gameplay that was originally part of the halo 'trinity', it had that "lone wolf" feeling that the first halo's were known for (ie it was mostly just the lone player), and it sculpted out a nice section of the haloverse with the odst.

Reach on the other hand felt more like what happens when a good developer listens too much to the community.

they added "perks"(abilities) and classes which only fucked with the meta built upon in the first 3 games.They added a bunch of needless weapons instead of just tweaking the already large list that the prior games built upon. The story was not nearly as well flushed out, and did next to nothing to really add to the haloverse, except that it retconned how cortana got on the ship.

Most importantly ODST felt "new" it felt like it could've been the start of the next halo trilogy, where are these soldiers off to next, is there another city that's being besieged that these soldiers can be deployed to. Maybe another planet for them to explore as a squad. Reach is DOA, literally, all you've got is Jun.

 

[Petrichor]

because odst felt like something bungie wanted to do with it.

Reach felt like something that the fans/microsoft wanted bungie to do with it.

ODST was able to recapture a lot of the feeling of exploration that was lost in 2/3/reach, it got rid of the equipment which muddied up gameplay that was originally part of the halo 'trinity', it had that "lone wolf" feeling that the first halo's were known for (ie it was mostly just the lone player), and it sculpted out a nice section of the haloverse with the odst.

Reach on the other hand felt more like what happens when a good developer listens too much to the community.

they added "perks"(abilities) and classes which only fucked with the meta built upon in the first 3 games.They added a bunch of needless weapons instead of just tweaking the already large list that the prior games built upon. The story was not nearly as well flushed out, and did next to nothing to really add to the haloverse, except that it retconned how cortana got on the ship.

Most importantly ODST felt "new" it felt like it could've been the start of the next halo trilogy, where are these soldiers off to next, is there another city that's being besieged that these soldiers can be deployed to. Maybe another planet for them to explore as a squad. Reach is DOA, literally, all you've got is Jun.

I actually enjoyed the addition of abilities (minus sprint, sprint is awful. TAKE AWAY SPRINT). It was the changes to player physics, and bloom that I didn't like. If the latter two changes hadn't been incorporated into Reach I think it would have been a great game.

 

[Arnie]

Just seen that post.

Beli343

 

[Heretic]

Just seen that post.

Beli343

Are you guys really going to push Beli343?

 

[Conor 419]

Are you guys really going to push Beli343?

I reckon they can pull it off

Belie343.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Are you guys really going to push Beli343?

 

[Dennis]

Reach is the best Halo game.

Reach > Halo 3 > Halo > Halo: ODST > HaLO 2


Never have a game felt more Halo than Reach.

 

[Pollux]

I've seen it mentioned multiple times in this thread...but to y'all, what does a Halo game "feel" like, and why did Reach not "feel" like a Halo game?

 

[HigherLevel]

I've seen it mentioned multiple times in this thread...but to y'all, what does a Halo game "feel" like, and why did Reach not "feel" like a Halo game?

Most people are talking about the player movement. In the trilogy games you could move any direction at the drop of a dime, you were faster, and you could jump higher. Reach has this inertia effect which limits strafing. Base player speed is also the slowest of any game in the series and when you jump you feel like you have weights on. Part of Halo has always been the movement and how you could get almost anywhere at anytime. Reach took that away.

 

[Kujo]

Reach is garbage compared to Halo 2 multiplayer

 

[Heretic]

Fuck. I'd buy that...

I still remember the Oonks fiasco...

 

[Zeal]

Still say Reach is the best Halo since Halo 1, in every respect.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Fuck. I'd buy that...

Then do so.

I enjoyed Oonsk. *shrug*

 

[Rickenslacker]

I've seen it mentioned multiple times in this thread...but to y'all, what does a Halo game "feel" like, and why did Reach not "feel" like a Halo game?

It's a variety of things. The alteration of movement, as HigherLevel brought up, along with the mechanics of bloom and having loadouts that went against the even starting field that I enjoyed with previous games. Vehicles have also gotten pretty janky with the series mainstay the Warthog end up so inconsistent. One second you're driving, another a pebble manages to send you flipping out of control. The way the grenades operate is completely contradictory to all of the previous games too, they bounce however they feel like, they detonate quickly, and they have a huge radius.

It all kind of works together to bring a game that feels sluggish and miserable.

Reach is the best Halo game.

Reach > Halo 3 > Halo > Halo: ODST > HaLO 2


Never have a game felt more Halo than Reach.

You don't even play video games.

 

[Dennis]

You don't even play video games.

Completed every single one of them on Hard.

Hard difficulty in Halo games is the most delicious balance between being challenging without being unduly frustrating.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Completed every single one of them on Hard.

Hard difficulty in Halo games is the most delicious balance between being challenging without being unduly frustrating.

This is true. For what it's worth I thought Reach's campaign was fine. I guess some people have issues with the lore aspects of it but that is the thing I care about least when playing these games. It's just unfortunate that it had to follow up ODST, as its campaign blows Reach out of the water, and every other mode in Reach underperforms.

 

[Hey You]

I think ODST is my favorite Halo campaign.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

I want a Halo with Crysis 2 like movement; no more moon jumping for the guy in a 1000 pound suit! Its a suit that is supposed to enhance master chiefs abilities, not turn him into mega-Neil Armstrong.

 

[Chiggs]

Reach is the best Halo game.

Reach > Halo 3 > Halo > Halo: ODST > HaLO 2


Never have a game felt more Halo than Reach.

I second this.

 

[JdFoX187]

Most people are talking about the player movement. In the trilogy games you could move any direction at the drop of a dime, you were faster, and you could jump higher. Reach has this inertia effect which limits strafing. Base player speed is also the slowest of any game in the series and when you jump you feel like you have weights on. Part of Halo has always been the movement and how you could get almost anywhere at anytime. Reach took that away.

Player movement was already slowing down to a crawl with Halo 3. Not sure one can talk about freedom of movement in that game when you jump and float in the air, waiting for someone to take your head off. Though I guess Bungie's balance to the moon jump physics was the god awful hit detection of the precision weapons, especially the BR.

 

[feel]

Fuck. I'd buy that...

It's an actual shirt..

edit-
beaten by a person that's in this picture lol!

 

[Striker]

Reach is garbage compared to Halo 2 multiplayer

 

[higherARC05]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

I want a Halo with Crysis 2 like movement; no more moon jumping for the guy in a 1000 pound suit! Its a suit that is supposed to enhance master chiefs abilities, not turn him into mega-Neil Armstrong.

I'm with you too on this. I mean HALO has a unique feel to it that no other game can mimic. But with Reach it mixed updated things with old school HALO gameplay.

For HALO 4 movement, I want us, the players, to feel what it is like to wear that awesome tank of a suit and see through his eyes what it is like.

Now this is how they can do it. You would jump with A button and Master Chief will hop and a big THUMP will be heard when he lands quickly. Then if you want that HALO CE type of jump, you use the thrusters that will act like a double jump for the Chief and allow to glide down to a slow decent. Something like this would be amazing. Gosh I'm going to be dreaming of HALO 4 tonight because of this talk.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

I want a Halo with Crysis 2 like movement; no more moon jumping for the guy in a 1000 pound suit! Its a suit that is supposed to enhance master chiefs abilities, not turn him into mega-Neil Armstrong.

halo mechanics aren't behind the times, that's like saying mario mechanics and zelda mechanics are behind the times. It's those exact mechanics that make it concurrent to the times for what those games are. What needs to happen is 343 needs to make their own halo.

Bungie made the first halo without relying on a stupid community who said do this, do that, and in the end the game was amazing, 343 needs to give the community a big fuck you and make their own halo, not COD Future Warefare, Not bungie's halo, 343's halo.

 

[Slightly Live]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

What the fuck are you smokin'?

Halo has always been innovative. Each of the original Halo games pretty much defined FPS on consoles. They defined the online console experience. They defined true post release longevity for a console series.

You know something? Each main Halo game feels like a damm Halo game. The feel of the game didn't get in the way of the innovations each title brought to the genre and the series.

If you think how a game feels or controls is somehow restrictively tied to how innovative a game is, then you're smoking some really powerful stuff.

And mechanics? You're saying Halo's gameplay mechanics are outdated too?

You should probably just leave the thread at this point before you are smothered by your own stupid comments.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

My 360 is eating cobwebs while it waits to be fed Halo 4. It's practically the only game I even care for this generation. And not because there aren't any other good games out there, but simply because I've followed the franchise from the beginning and feel compelled to continue. Here's hoping Halo 4 and that £40 hole in my wallet will be worth it.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

You should probably just leave the thread at this point before you are smothered by your own stupid comments.

Coming on a bit strong Dani, did you have a bad day?

 

[Satchel]

Happy to see the ODST love.

God damn that game was underrated. So so good.

 

[NullPointer]

Reach is the best Halo game.

Reach > Halo 3 > Halo > Halo: ODST > HaLO 2


Never have a game felt more Halo than Reach.

This is pretty much my take, although I'd place ODST in second place. But then again I'm more of a campaign/co-op player with little to no interest in versus modes. I don't know if I've replayed a game this generation more than Reach. Its just too damn good, across the board.

Firefight 4 Life. Its like a violent version of golf for me and my buddies. We meet up, catch up and frag covenant waves until we're good ;P

 

[higherARC05]

What the fuck are you smokin'?

Halo has always been innovative. Each of the original Halo games pretty much defined FPS on consoles. They defined the online console experience. They defined true post release longevity for a console series.

You know something? Each main Halo game feels like a damm Halo game. The feel of the game didn't get in the way of the innovations each title brought to the genre and the series.

If you think how a game feels or controls is somehow restrictively tied to how innovative a game is, then you're smoking some really powerful stuff.

And mechanics? You're saying Halo's gameplay mechanics are outdated too?

You should probably just leave the thread at this point before you are smothered by your own stupid comments.

I think, from what I got, what he's trying to say is the feeling of playing a Spartan II. The past HALO games didn't really, if not at all, portrayed a real sense of being a Spartan II. Like all the things that go on in the helmet and what it can do from the books is non-existent in the games. Also wearing a 5 ton suite is meaningless when you jump and float like the gravity is cancelling out for your body.

It's not the game itself that is dated. HALO is probably the most innovative game in the industry with things like Forge, Theater, Online Coop, Community features, Hijackable vehicles, duel weilding, etc etc.

But the visualization of playing a character in this universe is pretty dated compared to fps this gen that really portrayed a sense of a character with a body you played like in Crysis and even Metriod where things like her helmet collected mist when you went through a waterfall.

This is what I want HALO 4 to really be set appart from other HALOs. Not just new gameplay innovations, but portraying a better sense of being the Master Chief instead of using a quake type camera with a static gun on screen and feels like you are just moving a camera.

 

[The Librarian]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

What mechanics? There are different ways to innovate while keeping the core gameplay in tact. ODST's hub world, for example. Take that and take it to the next level. That's taking the series to a place it hasn't been before and it's as good as innovation.

 

[Slightly Live]

But the visualization of playing a character in this universe is pretty dated compared to fps this gen that really portrayed a sense of a character with a body you played like in Crysis and even Metriod where things like her helmet collected mist when you went through a waterfall.

This is what I want HALO 4 to really be set appart from other HALOs. Not just new gameplay innovations, but portraying a better sense of being the Master Chief instead of using a quake type camera with a static gun on screen and feels like you are just moving a camera.

See, the things you mentioned are fine. They wouldn't take away from the Halo feel one bit.

I'm talking about picking up the controller and playing the game for the first time. You will know instantly if you're playing a Halo game. Something just clicks. You can put this down to the controls, the movement dynamics, the HUD or any number of other variables if you want.

I got this with every Halo game except Reach. I want Halo 4 to feel like a Halo game when I first play it. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[LosDaddie]

You guys are crazy. Reach was/is awesome. But then again, I've loved every Halo game. My only complaint with Reach was armor lock.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

I think, from what I got, what he's trying to say is the feeling of playing a Spartan II. The past HALO games didn't really, if not at all, portrayed a real sense of being a Spartan II. Like all the things that go on in the helmet and what it can do from the books is non-existent in the games. Also wearing a 5 ton suite is meaningless when you jump and float like the gravity is cancelling out for your body.

It's not the game itself that is dated. HALO is probably the most innovative game in the industry with things like Forge, Theater, Online Coop, Community features, Hijackable vehicles, duel weilding, etc etc.

But the visualization of playing a character in this universe is pretty dated compared to fps this gen that really portrayed a sense of a character with a body you played like in Crysis and even Metriod where things like her helmet collected mist when you went through a waterfall.

This is what I want HALO 4 to really be set appart from other HALOs. Not just new gameplay innovations, but portraying a better sense of being the Master Chief instead of using a quake type camera with a static gun on screen and feels like you are just moving a camera.

I've always wanted to see a cracked visor in a Halo game. Not your own, but of a player you just killed. Making a spartan run super fast could look and feel wonky and potentially break the game. Not sure what other changes I would advocate to the feel of being a spartan.

 

[ActiveRush]

For the people who say reach did not feel like halo I completely agree movement was off so was the gunplay.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

I want a Halo with Crysis 2 like movement; no more moon jumping for the guy in a 1000 pound suit! Its a suit that is supposed to enhance master chiefs abilities, not turn him into mega-Neil Armstrong.

Ill stick with the 2001 mechanics I love, you can layer stuff on top of those mechanics, but those core mechanics are Halo. Without them your going to get another Reach which loses the stuff that I play Halo for.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation?

I suggest you re-read that first sentence you wrote again. You really don't understand why Halo fans might want Halo to feel like Halo? What if the next Street Fighter came out and played like Mortal Combat (to make one example). Do you think fans would have reasonable objections?

My comments, and those of many others, were focused on player movement. What is innovative about lower jump height, slower movement and heavy player inertia which even further limits mobility, mitigates the benefits of strafing and slows player response time? That is what Reach brought to the table; to many of us, it just didn't feel like Halo as a result. There are plenty of other ways the series can expand, iterate and tweak its gameplay while still feeling like it's a Halo game, as has been the case throughout the series. I hope and expect that 343 will continue the tradition.


At any rate, it sounds like 343 will be returning Halo 4 to the classic mechanics and feel of the series, while adding heft in other ways. Spartans are heavy, but they are also fast, powerful and agile. I'm hoping they find ways to communicate these things without resorting to hampering player movement. It sounds like that's the vision.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

I want a Halo with Crysis 2 like movement; no more moon jumping for the guy in a 1000 pound suit! Its a suit that is supposed to enhance master chiefs abilities, not turn him into mega-Neil Armstrong.

Then why even call it halo if its not going to feel like it .

 

[Partition]

I really don't like this "it needs to feel like halo" stuff. Are you afraid of innovation? Do you want this game to feel like a innovative 2001 shooter or an innovative 2012 shooter? I love the Halo Universe, but its time to move on guys. Halo gameplay is awesome, but its mechanics are simply behind the times.

I want a Halo with Crysis 2 like movement; no more moon jumping for the guy in a 1000 pound suit! Its a suit that is supposed to enhance master chiefs abilities, not turn him into mega-Neil Armstrong.

You want Halo to be innovative yet you want them to mimic games that are already out there?

Halo is so much fun because it plays like Halo. The day that changes is the day I lose interest.

 

[clashfan]

Then why even call it halo if its not going to feel like it .

The debate is what makes a Halo game a Halo game? Is it the movement speed, jump height... To me what makes a Halo game is the sandbox battles, exploration, epic adventure. They could make it a third person shooter as long as they have the sandbox, exploration and epic adventure.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

What the fuck are you smokin'?

Halo has always been innovative. Each of the original Halo games pretty much defined FPS on consoles. They defined the online console experience. They defined true post release longevity for a console series.

You know something? Each main Halo game feels like a damm Halo game. The feel of the game didn't get in the way of the innovations each title brought to the genre and the series.

If you think how a game feels or controls is somehow restrictively tied to how innovative a game is, then you're smoking some really powerful stuff.

And mechanics? You're saying Halo's gameplay mechanics are outdated too?

You should probably just leave the thread at this point before you are smothered by your own stupid comments.

Thanks for the heart-warming reply, you really opened my mind with your ad-hominem threaded remarks, it really proves the point you're trying to make.

I know people like the halo "feel", and thats fine. If you saw my specific example, there are certain aspects that I think need change. I don't care for the moon jumping; its cool because you can jump high, yes, but the lack of weight breaks visceral immersion that I expect from a fps these days.

The shooting is fine, I'm not asking for aiming down sights, but halo's weapons still need more feedback; they pale in comparison to many shooters today. I want to feel powerful when I'm running around shooting enemies. Halo is certainly fun, however it doesn't make me feel like the badass Spartan that I want to be AND I believe is possible with the current tech of today.

We all know halo needs a sprint, if you don't think it needs it, point proven right there. Reach's sprint was decent, but once again, the "feeling" could be worked on. Visually, the physics have always been great in Halo games, however the feeling of myself moving around still feels stiff and floaty.

What have I been smoking? Better stuff than you.

 

[Lingitiz]

The debate is what makes a Halo game a Halo game? Is it the movement speed, jump height... To me what makes a Halo game is the sandbox battles, exploration, epic adventure. They could make it a third person shooter as long as they have the sandbox, exploration and epic adventure.

Halo is primarily a multiplayer franchise though, and those things are important for Halo's SP but don't really apply to the MP side. Reach turned off so many players because of those fundamental changes to each basic trait of the gameplay.

 

[Ramirez]

We all know halo needs a sprint, if you don't think it needs it, point proven right there. Reach's sprint was decent, but once again, the "feeling" could be worked on. Visually, the physics have always been great in Halo games, however the feeling of myself moving around still feels stiff and floaty.

Speak for yourself, brah.