I think the takeaway from this and the Dragons Crown situation is that Japanese developers need to realize that western audiences in general aren't going to find anime tropes sexy or appealing. Kojima has a great talent for cinematic flair and I have no doubt he could write a smart, sexy, badass woman with infinitely more appeal and contribution to whatever story he's telling. Instead we get sniper lady who lost her words and her clothes. He deserves criticism for such poor decisions. He doesn't deserve to be censored. Period.
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Halo 4 Designer Calls Out Kojima on Sex (Pot to Kettle: "You are blue!")
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
I really don't understand why NeoGAF turned this into an 25 page rant. As many has already asked, do you even play MGS? Look at all the characters (those pics of the men as well) and realize that there is no "logic" in that game.
BTW, it's pretty funny how serious people are trying to be towards gaming when you see shit like this in the mainstream media
Models, actors showing tons of clevage, legs, and outlining their ass if they have one, cheerleaders wearing less clothes than the new MGS female, women 25 or younger or hell even 30 or younger walking around showing tons of cleavage and legs, going on twiter/facebook/instagram and taking teasing pics showing that off and etc. Of course no one will notice any of this stuff though. Let's attack games and force people to go out of their way censor everything even if it doesn't make any sense.
1) Two wrongs ( or in this case perceived wrongs) do not make a right
2) What does all those things have to do with what is being discussed
durrrrrrrrrr
Member
i hope kojima says nothing and keeps making his game. too much swag to let the little people bring him down.
neoism
Member
meh maybe Quiet wants the get a tan or something...this stuff has been in every damn MGS since MGS2 when the graphics allowed it ... MGS games being silly nahh.. I just don't understand why this makes ppls so mad lol. Shes a bad girl anyway right... will be an awesome BOSS battle..
This.
I've met David at an industry event and he seems like a really nice guy - but he wouldn't have this platform without his association with Halo 4 and 343i. You can't get on somebody else about their issues regarding "over-sexualized" characters in a game without being called out on your own.
SymbolicGamer
Banned
You must not read the books.
A lot of the AIs wear "costumes". There's even an AI with an avatar that dresses like a cowboy.
Cortana isn't sexualized any more than that blue opera singing alien in The Fifth Element. The reason she became more developed over the course of the games is because Cortana is growing as a character. Halo 4 was all about Cortana. There's no way the player would have been invested in the story as much if Cortana still looked like she did in Combat Evolved. It's not making a character more sexy for the sake of making a character sexy. It's to humanize her.
rain elbows
Member
Cortana in a burka, Halo 5 Believe.
I'm not suggesting a fictional character chose her design, I'm just saying the fiction is set up do these AI can be any form. But yeah, I'm fine with the Kojima character. Is she a little silly and over the top? Yes, but that's what mgs games are so it fits. My only problem was the people saying cortona is oversexed because she has more natural curves now.
kerotan_eater
Banned
I'm not going to agree or disagree either way. I mean I know if I were to make a game, I wouldn't be doing any of the shit Kojima does with character designs. But at the same time I think what he does is in contrast to that is more mature and important than 99% of what this industry has achieved in terms of storytelling. The franchise has always had an inconsistent tone and character and that is arguably (I mean arguably) the appeal. If people in this thread, actually played Metal Gear games, they would understand this.
I do believe all in all, we should be moving past these character designs, its just not necessary. It might make sense in a Kojima game, but for the uninitiated, at just the surface level without context it looks bad, so I don't think we should blame anyone for the blowup.
I do completely disagree with one thing you said in your original post, that we should not have these debates at all. I mean its not fun, but it is important regardless.
CambriaRising
Member
Well. Here is another perspective.
It is clear from the trailer that something is up with her skin, the way it changes color. It is possible that she can camouflage her skin to her surroundings like a chameleon. If that is the case, she would need to wear little clothing to utilize that ability.
This is all conjecture, but it wouldn't be the weirdest thing in the MGS series as far as super natural or scientific powers go.
You're generalizing here. The rise in the popularity of Cosplay in the West would tell you opposite. More and more people find the culture appealing.
Again, that's not the actual issue. Or at least, not my issue with it. I can't speak for David.
Luckily the AI that's the second most important character in the series chose to have an avatar of a sexy naked woman, and not like an astronaut in full spacewalk gear.
People can have opinions on things. I think the issue was twitter rather than his opinions. Some people do not like that thing about that game you like. Eh.
...wat?
Isn't Kojima just aping James Bond style villains? Over the top and exaggerated. His characters have always been this way. I don't have an issue with this design given the style tone of his story.
Well I haven't played it yet. But if its like past games it doesn't seem that much of a department of the norm.
Well I haven't played it yet. But if its like past games it doesn't seem that much of a department of the norm.
What's the difference between these so-called anime tropes and cameltoe robots (Mass Effect), sex minigames (God of War), strip club levels (Duke Nukem), titty flashing fatalities (Killer Instinct), fucking hookers for health (GTA), or any other sexual aspects that have come from western developers?
CreateNowSleepLater
Member
You know what the industry doesn't need? Invisible Spartan's with snipers. Get back to me when you guys actually release your first real Halo game.
It honestly feels that way. Like that is what it ultimately comes down to.
Who is getting that? People are understanding that her design is meant to appear sexy to the player of the game, exactly as Quiet's design is meant to. This goes unacknowledged by 343, who have a designer calling Quiet's design "disgusting".
Oh sure, I get that. Again, no problem with Cartana's design at all. Actually think it's the best one yet.
Just don't think it gives them a carte blanche to say, she is able to choose her own appearance and dress like she does while attacking other companies for a little extravagant design of their own. Not that he has said that himself or anything though.
Wel to their credit, if they are invisible, we can't see their skimpy outfits, so it's fine from that perspective.
I agree.
They should have made him look like this:
It's more in line with the Cortana design in 4
Andronicus
Banned
*Blankstares at cortana*....I guess because they showed a female spartan that makes them exempt huh? Aight...
1) How is it wrong if women are showcased as sexy? Many women like being sexy, (common sense) they aren't men so there's different ways to show that.
2) The stupid "outrage" when you see a character that looks "sexy" gets so much backlash while games like GTAV gets praised to hell and back. There's way too much backwards thinking in the gaming industry and they want to be treated seriously compared to other forms of media (they aren't even serious at all, just look at what's popular in music/movie/tv/etc).
People feel more mature for not liking it.Not just anime tropes either. People hated on dust because the people in there where anthropomorphic, hating things like that makes them more mature. In their mind anyway. But what do I know I play games with go fast hedgehogs.
Yeah it's getting to a point where chicks in video games will need to wear Islamic headscarfs to maintain their purity. You'd think David Ellis comes from the Middle East or something, where women have to fully covered from head to toe just to keep men happy.
Nah, there is a big difference between motherly, elegant Cortana and lolz check out this ass...can't wait to see all the cosplay honies.
You're getting the wrong message out of this then. It's not about how many clothes there are, but about why she's half-naked.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I don't have a problem with her design. It's a nice design, and she's a good character. It's not very well justified in the game, but it's not a bad design by any means.
The problem I have is 343 not being honest about why she was designed like that. It's perfectly ok to have a character that looks sexy. That's not an issue to me at all. Just don't design a character to look sexy and then pretend you didn't, and certainly don't attack other developers for freely admitting they designed a sexy character. It's just silly.
Because its a video game.
Why does it matter at all if the game doesn't even care about practicality on the whole(see the variety of whacky designs seen in the series). No one cares about why. It's that she's sexualized.
Ninja Scooter
Member
People shouldn't take Kojima and Metal Gear so seriously and then the over the top sexuality wouldn't be so controversial. He's the Robert Rodriguez of video games.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
"motherly" elegant figures like walking around naked, got it
Honesty Evolved
rain elbows
Member
Thank you for having common sense.
NobleGundam
Banned
In the Halo lore, A.I.s pick their own unique appearances. Their knowledge and personalities are pre programmed. In Cortana's case, she is a Smart A.I. very Unique. Very Intelligent. She resembles a lot like her human creator or "Mother".
With 343's design philosophy it's evident they wanted to express the feelings and emotions of Cortanas character in Halo 4. In the previous installments to the Halo Franchise; she has almost always been a "naked" hologram lady A.I. It just so happens that this Dev team designed her to be more realistic and human than ever before.
With 343's design philosophy it's evident they wanted to express the feelings and emotions of Cortanas character in Halo 4. In the previous installments to the Halo Franchise; she has almost always been a "naked" hologram lady A.I. It just so happens that this Dev team designed her to be more realistic and human than ever before.
1) there could many things wrong with that, ( this isn't the thread to go into that in full) but representation in the media is important.
2) GTAV or GTA game in general while they do not let you play as ladies, atleast SA forward, the women were represented well actually. Yes there are prostitutes and strippers, as is with real life. However the important women come in all sorts of sizes, sometimes chunky, sometimes super skinny. Depends. I think more women should represented in GTA, and playable. I do not know what you are saying with GTA really? GTA aside from ... well ladies of the nights and strippers, all the important characters arent really winning any sexy contests. Woman or man.
Altered Juice
Member
*sigh* thank you.
She isn't naked.
Edit: Cortana's character is motherly. Her hips and legs are totally motherly. Her top reminds me of an elegant dress worn to a party or somewhere nice. At worst it's sensual, but it isn't remotely overly sexualized. Her character has nothing to do with sex.
RockTurtle
Member
I agree.
They should have made him look like this:
It's more in line with the Cortana design in 4
RIP God of Aesthetics ;-;
ha yeah, we're on the same page. If the character fits the game its cool with me. And he shouldn't have called then out when you have a sexy character as well. And she has been a sexy character from the start, I just don't feel that she is now oversexed because of her curves like one post said.
The problem with Quiet is that they are playing up her looks and there is no explanation as to why she dresses the way she does. That's how she is first introduced into the MG universe.
Your introduction to Cortana was probably the first game which wasn't the first time Cortana appeared in the Halo universe. My introduction to Cortana was the Fall of Reach which was the first Halo work to be released.
RockTurtle
Member
so let's wait till the game is out before we talk out of our asses? GREAT!
Always-honest
Banned
Well, Kojima is the only dev who created characters i would consider attractive.
So props to him. And guess what dev always was TERRIBLE at human character design? Oww, no that was Bungie.
So props to him. And guess what dev always was TERRIBLE at human character design? Oww, no that was Bungie.
Yes, it's a bit like getting mad over Michelle Rodriguez wearing a leather bikini top as clothing in Machete. Is it sexual? Sure. Is it out of place? Not really.
Metal Gear Solid has S&M mind readers in gas masks, men who control bees, the main character's outfit shows every contour of his ass, a fat bomber in a huge coat on rollerblades, a giant roaring walking mech with a railgun, a vampire that can run across water and heal from gunshots, and a sniper that dresses in skimpy clothing and has some kind of camouflage ability. They do fit in the same weird universe.
I don't see how that's an excuse?
Are video games inherently sexist then?
No, they care about the fact that the character was made to be sexualized to sell. Again, nobody is scared of a midriff, but forcing a sexualized character into the game for no other reason than to appeal to a certain segment of fans is, by definition, sexist. Are there other problems facing society and in particular video games? Yes. Does that mean we should ignore this one? No.