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[AlimNassor]

I wouldn't mind more men being sexed up...I know I can't be the only one who enjoyed seeing Raiden naked. Though I'd prefer Solid Snake naked next.

 

[ColonelColon]

The flippant, "that's a male power fantasy" argument from feminists is funny to me. It completely ignores that one of the reasons men fantasize about being muscular, powerful heroes is that most women are attracted to strength and power.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Ask Bioware.

Ashley's shirt while she was in the hospital always stood out to me:

Who the fuck has a shirt that hugs their chest that tightly? Doesn't seem very comfortable.

 

[fallagin]

Oh man, this thread is just too good. Makes me feel alive!

 

[RockTurtle]

.....'

Let me hold my tounge.

Are you about to argue that something a country does, including human atrocities, is somehow right, because it isnt universally accepted?

were we not discussing what one culture finds sexy and not demeaning in terms of female clothing, or are we going to broaden the discussion into completely different topics? let me know and we can continue

You don't necessarily have to agree with the arguments presented, but I do think this somewhat disingenuously seeks to oversimplify what is argued for the sole sake of making it seem absurd. Admittedly, the argument isn't a concise slam dunk. But the core of the issue is this: does anyone think the imagery of scantily clad men presented is honestly meant to be fanservice for an audience attracted to men in the same way that the female designs are?

Perhaps you do, and that's fine I suppose. But I think it's problematic in these discussions whenever a counterexample is presented in a "here's a screen that goes against your argument, therefore your argument is invalid fashion." Again, I don't want this to come across as an argument suggesting that Kojima is a monster or that his female designs are atrocious, but I think the nuance required to properly have this discussion is hard enough to achieve as is without simply trying to win via Debate 101 traps.

i was being sarcastic in that comment, i realize it's rather black and white. i wrote it because, and i kid you not, i have asked other feminists if the inclusion of sexily clad men would be promote equality and i was told countless times that NO. Because a muscled man in a speedo is just an extension of the male power fantasy and it's not on the same level as a women in a bikini.

in some extent it's true, but i was confused because if the goal of the medium is to arouse in that specific moment of the game, why is one image ok and not the other? I then asked what would feminists, or women, find sexually appealing or how to make a sexually appealing woman without being demeaning and no one would answer and just start calling me names and how i support rape culture.

so i can't show a sexy woman to appeal to men, i can't show a sexy man (or what i think equates to a sexy man ) to appeal to women because inadvertently i appeal to men. NO ONE IS TELLING WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE SEXUAL APPEAL TO EITHER MEN OR WOMEN!

 

[v1oz]

Not sure what you're point is, I also see girls wearing more on a night out and many pop stars don't dress provocatively so I don't see what your ambivalence is all about.

The point is. Women can dress however they want. This is not the early 60's where showing flesh was an issue.

 

[Nibel]

Ashley's shirt while she was in the hospital always stood out to me:

Who the fuck has a shirt that hugs their chest that tightly? Doesn't seem very comofortable.

Not just the shirt, but her entire redesign is ridiculous

Wonder how Dave feels about BioWare

 

[marrec]

No doubt Kojima is kind of a perv, but i'd play the game first before judging. Kojima's more than earned the benefit of the doubt as there's usually tons of depth to MGS' characters, and he's toyed with our minds many times.

I think the main problem isn't as much the design but the fact he's admitting to being a shrewd businessman.

I mean, it's kind of depressing when you're forced to face the fact that you share a hobby with a bunch of sex-starved men who will probably jack off to a character in the game you enjoy.

No different from any other part of the internet, it's just shocking he was so nonchalant about it.

The point is. Women can dress however they want. This is not the early 60's where showing flesh was an issue.

So you're saying the AI for the character in the game will be able to decide what she wears?

NEXT GEN

 

[Grief.exe]

Ashley's shirt while she was in the hospital always stood out to me:

Who the fuck has a shirt that hugs their chest that tightly? Doesn't seem very comofortable.

Its probably how they have the geometry for her character set up.

All of her armor clings in that area in a relatively similar way to that shirt. They would have to create a whole new geometry for that shirt texture for that specific scene. Waste of resources.

I've washes my hands of Bioware, so I haven't played Mass Effect 3, but this is most likely the case.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Not just the shirt, but her entire redesign is ridiculous

Wonder how Dave feels about BioWare

All females in Mass Effect 3 are ridiculous in terms of sexualisation

 

[v1oz]

Surely you can tell the difference between a small section of the game where someone's stripped naked against their will for torture, which is then played for laughs when they're cartwheeling around whilst coving their crotch and all the promotional material of the only female character revealed in the game featuring her dressed like a half clothed hooker despite being a female soldier in a desert.

You do know that MGS is a fictional work? She is not a real soldier. It's an action game not a desert warfare sim.

 

[charsace]

Old Cortana!

 

[Dimensional Weave]

A warning to all heteros, u will find urself randomly barraged by fem tends (male feminist) who act out their closeted homo erotic fantasy's, by targeting other males under the guise of morality, or the impropriety of such. at said point they'll squawk verbatim, reciting fem speak, they learn during their raping and indoctrinating.

 

[v1oz]

So you're saying the AI for the character in the game will be able to decide what she wears?

NEXT GEN

It's not out of the question.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I can certainly get behind Kojima's new found flair for character design. It's no more or less ridiculous than everything else in his games.

 

[Kinyou]

You know Raiden's character in its original MGS2 form was sexualized in an attempt at pandering to women, right? Kojima was trying to tap into that whole Bishoujo thing.

Yeah, I know. And some female fans actually seemed to like it.

Surely you can tell the difference between a small section of the game where someone's stripped naked against their will for torture, which is then played for laughs when they're cartwheeling around whilst coving their crotch and all the promotional material of the only female character revealed in the game featuring her dressed like a half clothed hooker despite being a female soldier in a desert.

We don't know the context in MGSV yet. Maybe Quiet got stripped for torture as well. (however then it would be more realistic if she was completely naked)

 

[nbraun80]

That's basically what they did with the male AI that showed up in the same game.

point? Thats the appearance that AI chose, and he's new to the series. Putting a parka on cortona at this point in the series would be completely ridiculous, and 343 would have gotten even more flack.

 

[madmackem]

I dont know why every game is getting called on this of late, it shows how immature the medium is. In every other form of media you have different styles different levels of sexed upness, but in game people seem to get up in arms over tits ass and cameltoes. Why cant it just be the artists vision for there work, do people call out movies books and stuff on their direction? not really. If you find it offensive then dont support that game maker, if i dont like the context of a book i dont buy it, if i find a movie to over the top i wouldnt watch it.

You dont have to play a game where you think women or men are being taken advantage of in some way dont buy it dont give it the time of day its not for you. Why do we try to make everything fit in this pc world where we cant offend males or females i dont understand it. We would live in a pretty shitty world if every form of entertainment and art had to follow a guide on what it could and couldnt do we would end up with the same shit everytime.

 

[Azih]

All females in Mass Effect 3 are ridiculous in terms of sexualisation

Apparently so are most of the men... Womenz like the Thane apparently(?).

NO ONE IS TELLING WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE SEXUAL APPEAL TO EITHER MEN OR WOMEN!

I feel your pain dude.

 

[Haunted]

Just don't forget that all the calling out of Bioware's and 343's insulting, oversexualised, pandering designs is not a defense of Kojima.

"They did it too" doesn't mean that Kojima is justified in this, but that they're all the same kind of garbage in that aspect.

 

[Brianimaniac]

point? Thats the appearance that AI chose, and he's new to the series. Putting a parka on cortona at this point in the series would be completely ridiculous, and 343 would have gotten even more flack.

What's with this parka thing you're so hung up on? You can't see any middle ground between what they did in Halo 4 and a goddamn parka? Come back when you have a serious argument to make.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Its probably how they have the geometry for her character set up.

All of her armor clings in that area in a relatively similar way to that shirt. They would have to create a whole new geometry for that shirt texture for that specific scene. Waste of resources.

I've washes my hands of Bioware, so I haven't played Mass Effect 3, but this is most likely the case.

I'm sure you're exactly right. But, it is really fucking dumb looking that entire scene. Put a blanket on her or something. I guess they had too much coloring to do to pay attention to little shit like this.

 

[Kenshin001]

And what was the sensical reason for Big Boss never putting a shirt back on throughout the later half of MGS 3?

Why is he wearing pants? Soldiers don't need pants.

 

[Misterinenja]

Not just the shirt, but her entire redesign is ridiculous

Wonder how Dave feels about BioWare

Easier to take shots at people overseas with language barrier.

 

[Black-Box]

That's basically what they did with the male AI that showed up in the same game.

Cortana is the only AI to be naked. Every other AI ever talked about I believe has had clothes. Also Cortana is not like other AIs.

 

[v1oz]

Just don't forget that all the calling out of Bioware's and 343's insulting, oversexualised, pandering designs is not a defense of Kojima.

"They did it too" doesn't mean that Kojima is justified in this, but that they're all the same kind of garbage in that aspect.

Kojima can design whatever characters he wants. It's his vision not anyone else's.

 

[marrec]

Why is he wearing pants? Soldiers don't need pants.

Those aren't pants... that's his skin.

#nanomachines

 

[Yka]

 

[Gestault]

The bra only is so silly, it deserves criticism. Give her a vest or something.

Yes, bra, thong, and torn/melted fishnets are absolutely a tactical advantage in a desert environment, especially when the creator who designed her said the reason they made her so erotic/sexy so they could sell models and appeal to cosplayers.

 

[Cat Party]

Halo 4 Cortana design was definitely ridiculous, but that doesn't excuse a design like the one from Kojima. I'm tired of this shit. No one is buying Halo for Cortana boobs. It's degrading to all of us.

 

[rain elbows]

Easier to take shots at people overseas with language barrier.

And when your employer doesn't have unprecedented partnerships with them.

 

[StayDead]

Why is he wearing pants? Soldiers don't need pants.

How can you tell if he's wearing pants or not?

 

[Jarmel]

As other people have said, glass houses bro.

That Cortana design is just as bad.

 

[nbraun80]

What's with this parka thing you're so hung up on? You can't see any middle ground between what they did in Halo 4 and a goddamn parka? Come back when you have a serious argument to make.

haha are you kidding me? Your the one that quoted only that part of my post, why are you so hung up on it? When you're done posting pics of completely different people with no design to live up to, come back.

 

[marrec]

Yes, bra, thong, and torn/melted fishnets are absolutely a tactical advantage in a desert environment, especially when the creator who designed her said the reason they made her so erotic/sexy so they could sell models and appeal to cosplayers.

I hope she has tons of sunscreen.

Skin cancer is a bitch.

 

[CambriaRising]

Why is he wearing pants? Soldiers don't need pants.

 

[ironcreed]

I am starting to see a trend of devs and journalist disgusted by the Japanese sexualised character designs, but what exactly is wrong with it? People just love to overreact.

Indeed, as if it's a recent development or something. There will always be some games with scantily-clad sexy females in them. Don't like it? Feel free to ignore them and focus your attention on the plethora of other titles out there that do not offend you. You can't generalize the industry and community as a whole because of select games and character designs. There will be games that have it and plenty of others that don't. Just like with movies or anything else in the entertainment industry.

 

[MikeXXIeaf]

The Japanese are kings at striking character design. Personally I love it, not even for the sexuality, but for the fact Kojima is seriously going to convince us that she can fight in a war while being nearly naked.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

i was being sarcastic in that comment, i realize it's rather black and white. i wrote it because, and i kid you not, i have asked other feminists if the inclusion of sexily clad men would be promote equality and i was told countless times that NO. Because a muscled man in a speedo is just an extension of the male power fantasy and it's not on the same level as a women in a bikini.

in some extent it's true, but i was confused because if the goal of the medium is to arouse in that specific moment of the game, why is one image ok and not the other? I then asked what would feminists, or women, find sexually appealing or how to make a sexually appealing woman without being demeaning and no one would answer and just start calling me names and how i support rape culture.

so i can't show a sexy woman to appeal to men, i can't show a sexy man (or what i think equates to a sexy man ) to appeal to women because inadvertently i appeal to men. NO ONE IS TELLING WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE SEXUAL APPEAL TO EITHER MEN OR WOMEN!

RE: Male power fantasy. I don't think the crux of the argument is that a muscle man is always a male power fantasy that appeals to male inner-desires to be that guy and is never sexually appealing to women. What I think the argument tries to articulate is that a shirtless Rambo running through the jungle probably isn't as sexually evocative as one might suppose when it's offered as a quick counterexample of "see! scantily clad men exists too! Where's the outrage there!?"

However, again, that's not to say that it isn't sexually evocative at all, or that all males look to Rambo as a power fantasy. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think this is often a far more complex topic than many people who enter into are willing to give it credit for.

 

[Messofanego]

Hey, Sapphire. Watch out for the DomZ!

 

[Scrabble]

I wonder when people will begin to realize all this made up phony outrage does more harm for feminism and equality than it does good. Where exactly does this faux outrage come from? Is it a superiority complex? If any person just walked up to a female out of the blue and said "I'm not sexist, I'm not a man-child, I'm not misogynistic, etc" than they'd be looked at as a massive douche or a total creep. So they instead have to use something like Kojima to mirror how great and grown up they are, it seems total self serving to me and they get away with it because "oh look how great I am, I'm the one combating sexisim."

By people telling you that your wrong or something is wrong, there not just tell you something is wrong, but there really telling you how awesome they are.

 

[Conciliator]

That's basically what they did with the male AI that showed up in the same game.

Haha, imagine if they made the male AI an explicit image of an ideal naked male. Players would be like 'yo what is this gay shit'.

 

[Ithil]

Old Cortana!

Old Eva! What was your point?

 

[marrec]

The Japanese are kings at striking character design. Personally I love it, not even for the sexuality, but for the fact Kojima is seriously going to convince us that she can fight in a war while being nearly naked.

Yep, there will be lots of dudes striking due to the character design.

Then they'll buy the figurine and strike all over that.

 

[Bulzeeb]

Why is he wearing pants? Soldiers don't need pants.

well Kojima has you covered

 

[SpookyFries]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I think the "femnist" shit needs to stop. This stuff has never been an issue in video games until about 2 years ago and I don't understand why we're suddenly having to tip toe and cater to please everybody. Sure, Kojima's character design is questionable at times but he's always been like that.

I should also note that these kinds of things aren't a big deal in Japanese culture. Kojima is a Japanese developer and he shouldn't have to feel bad about his work because people are "offended" by his character design choices.

 

[Whompa]

Wasn't Halo 4's biggest impact to the Halo lore was the size of Cortana's rear? This guy is commenting on the sexualization in other games as bad and he's not even looking at the thing that people pointed out the most when Halo 4 came out? Something he helped create?

Get real...that's crazy to claim Kojima's design direction is somehow more egregious than 343's treatment of Cortana.

 

[Salex]

I really don't understand why NeoGAF turned this into an 25 page rant. As many has already asked, do you even play MGS? Look at all the characters (those pics of the men as well) and realize that there is no "logic" in that game.

BTW, it's pretty funny how serious people are trying to be towards gaming when you see shit like this in the mainstream media

Models, actors showing tons of clevage, legs, and outlining their ass if they have one, cheerleaders wearing less clothes than the new MGS female, women 25 or younger or hell even 30 or younger walking around showing tons of cleavage and legs, going on twiter/facebook/instagram and taking teasing pics showing that off and etc. Of course no one will notice any of this stuff though. Let's attack games and force people to go out of their way censor everything even if it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Brianimaniac]

haha are you kidding me? Your the one that quoted only that part of my post, why are you so hung up on it? When you're done posting pics of completely different people with no design to live up to, come back.

1. Precedent is not a good reason to stand by something.

2. Halo 4 Cortana does not look like Bungie Cortana anyway, so even if your logic held up, what has actually happened doesn't follow that logic. Making her tits and ass bigger is "living up to" something?

 

[charsace]

Cortana in Halo is different from other AI in the Halo universe. She's a clone of Dr Halsey in mechanical form. Halsey is vain, but at the time she creates Cortana she was already old and one of the things she was vain about, her looks, had already deteriorated due to age. Since Cortana is a clone of Halsey she is also vain and prideful, and also angry because she is clone and an ai which means she doesn't get to live a long life. Cortana makes herself look like a young naked version of Halsey because its the only way she can get back at Halsey.