Sorry I took so long to respond been very busy, hopefully I'll get this typed out fast.
forzatech is a modern engine capable of extracting effient performance out of moder hardware. The age of the engine isnt the issue at hand, it's then engines capabilities. The halo engine cant keep up with todays standards. If was long-in-tooth when h4 launched.
I don't know what makes Halo engine not modern? it's not like it hasn't been touched since Halo 3. By that thinking you could say ForzaTech is not modern considering it's origins are on the original Xbox as well. I don't know in what world you don't call locked 60fps in something like warzone efficient performance for a Xb1, but that is me coming from understanding the basic technical challenges which I know someone who just wants to play a game shouldn't have to think about. What is the issues you have seen with the engines capabilities? I wouldn't mind hearing a few examples of what ways you think the engine can't keep up with todays standards that I might have missed. I don't understand what about Halo 4's version of the engine was "long-in-tooth", It was one of the most advanced engines on the market easily on level with the likes of Foundation engine, 4A engine and Naughty Dog engine of the time. Halo 4 is easily the most technically advanced game on 360, from Corinne Yu's Halo lighting who's light mapper uses bounce lighting, baked AO, GI and is easy and fast to work with. Not to mention the version of it they used for forge, to how they handle shadows and their particle system that had been heavily upgraded from previous Halos. Corinne Yu's work on facial animations and in engine cutscene were a massive leap. I will point out a new engine is still just an old engine, old engines can have entire chunks rewritten which 343 have done through 4 and 5. A new engine would only make sense for a new IP that was doing something inherently different like a RTS or a gigantic seamless open world, Halo engine is built around the design and gameplay that is key to Halo. 343 with Halo 4 had a very long development time to focus and take apart the engine before they started making Halo 4 which was a great benefit for them, something they didn't have with 5 with a arguably more dramatic change to the engine. I'm sure even more massive chunks of the engine have been rewritten for Halo 6 based on what they have learned and due to X, one of the those is more than likely development tools and iteration time for their live team. I think one of the issues you have to set aside is the art direction which was hard for me to set aside at the time, especially looking at some of Sparths concept art compared to the game now still annoys me.
To be fair H4s looks came with a ton of concessions. As has the commitment to 60fps with the expectations that come with halo's sandbox. Concessions that needed to be made as a direct result of the engines inefficiencies. Games like BF and battlefront have similar amounts of chaos onscreen, vehicular combat, and still have better IQ than H5.
I know I made mention of that in the post, I disagree on the strive for 60fps resulting in concessions to the Halo Sandbox. One of the most impressive things about Halo 5 technically is that it achieves that locked 60fps while reverting back to the halo sandbox of Halo 3 which had been effected by Halo 4's technical goals. I really don't understand were you are coming from when you say inefficiency, Halo 5 achieves the key unique characteristic found of the Halo engine (Complex Physics, sandbox, large environments, AI and Halo environment streaming system) while maintaining a locked 60fps sacrificing graphical quality or finding work arounds. It's the complete opposite of Halo 4's technical goals and it's all the better for it.
BF1 is their 4th game this generation so they have a lot more experience under their belt, and a hell of a lot more teams working on the engine. BF1 IQ is no better than Halo 5 actually, in fact BF1 spends a lot of time in the 40's and mid 30's in terms of framerate so no were near comparable. When you see that Halo 5 in a Warzone game with even the most hectic thing possible going on doesn't drop a frame, while BF1 at it's most hectic drops in to the mid 30's its shows which is more efficient on XB1 hardware. It's not simply double the framerate at worse case scenarios but that the difference in overhead between the two games at any time is large, BF1 during best case scenarios still doesn't hold a locked 60fps implying that there is little to no overhead. Were as Halo 5 at best and worst case scenarios holds a locked 60fps implying a large overhead. So not only is Halo 5 holding better performance in a similar environment but also while using less resources, that is efficiency. Not to even mention the benefits of photogrammetry available to Dice which they have now had three games to work with, I would be highly surprised if 343 wasn't using it in Halo 6 especially with other Ms studio teams now using it heavily.
I imagine these tasks would have played out differently had they made a forward facing engine and debuted on xb1 instead of making h4 a 360 title
"Forward facing engine"? It would still be based on the Halo engine, it would more than likely be the same as Halo 5's engine due to this. At the time they started development to the release of Halo 4 was already a very long development cycle, to have that extended further would be very costly and it would more than likely look like a cross gen game. If we go through these issues they would still have to:
- Update the engine for current generation
- While building Halo 5
- While still having the same development issues (not related to engine by the way.)
- While still having to deal with the early Xb1 XDK
- While still having to take a engine specifically optimised for 30fps (Halo 4)
- That would have still been scaled back to a linear shooter with Halo 4
- They still would have to make it run at a locked 60fps
- While still having to make it be able to render large areas at a locked 60fps
All these issues would still be present with new ones including cost and time developing the engine, with building a game along side the new engine causing greater problems in their timeline. It's also safe to say it would be a waste of time and investment in the end. Let's say they instead went for one of these engines that in your opinion keep up with "todays standards" which would all most definitely have been UE4. Well that would have caused new problems, mostly due to the fact that UE4 wouldn't facilitate Halo engines demands. What you have to realise is that Halo engine is specifically designed solely around Halo's technical and gameplay needs, look at Gears 4 a series obviously suited for UE4. In multiplayer which are small scale maps they do not even hold a locked 60fps with no additional AI or complexity and worst case scenarios of a game of warzone. This is all a issue due to the fact that UE4's source code only became available to developers this year, which I'm sure with Coalitions next project is going to blow us away as that was how Epic made graphical generation definers in the gears games. So only now with Halo 6 would they be able to rework UE4 to fit their needs, which would take up development with Halo 6 that has now already been solved with Halo engine.
These last few pages just come of as Halo fans looking for something to criticise even if they don't have a reason for it, it's negativity for negativities sake. Which I understand comes from a place of you and others (me) wanting 343 to do the best they can and so that you can enjoy a series you love at it's very best. But it's the most worthless form of feedback, it's good to criticise 343 in areas were there is clearly a issue and give worthwhile feedback. But this sort of unfounded criticism is one giant pile of worthless feedback covering up and distracting away from all the worthwhile feedback that can help the development at 343. Like next some people will be criticising the font of the halo logo because they are starting to get bored with the lack of info about 6, which I also understand comes from a place of interest and hope. That's the only reason I still come to this thread months after I stopped playing Halo 5. Hopefully I don't have to wait to much longer to see Halo 6 so that I can more than likely start complaining about Sparth's concept art yet again not being fully realised in game again, but I hope not.
Sorry for the wall I need to get better at making my thoughts more concise
