diffusionx
Gold Member
Spartan Ops fucking sucks though. Fuck 343
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Halo Infinite Could Adopt Games As Service Structure.
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
Spartan Ops fucking sucks though. Fuck 343
Vawn
Banned
People actually saying this would be a good thing? I guess Sony and MS really are targeting two different markets now. This sounds horrible to me, but I avoid most online games besides FFXIV and Rocket League.
If these consoles really can cater to three audiences successfully, I guess that is a good thing. Selfishly I want Xbox just to focus on single-player games that you play, beat and move on.
If these consoles really can cater to three audiences successfully, I guess that is a good thing. Selfishly I want Xbox just to focus on single-player games that you play, beat and move on.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Is there any rational reasoning why people don't like GAAS or is this just single player gamers (not so) secretly trying to bash multiplayer focused games?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
This yo.
Halo is one of the last science fiction franchises I care about. I don't want to see a mainline Halo game go down this path. Save this garbage-o for a side game or whatever.
Shmunter
Member
It's a cynical and bankrupt money focused gameplay design philosophy grounded in free to play mobile gaming.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Ok, but does anyone have any RATIONAL reasons not to like GAAS?
Look, I'll do what you just did...
Traditional $60 dollar games are a cynical (wtf does THAT even mean?) and bankrupt money focused gameplay design philosophy grounded in lottery tickets.
DotA 2, Fortnite, Rainbow Six Siege, Rocket League, World of Warcraft, Monster Hunter World, Diablo III...
Some of the best games of all time. All GAAS.
This is starting to feel like single player gamers being jealous of multiplayer focus.
Aion002
Member
GAAS means:
Content locked behind set periods of time. For example: This game mode is only available during the season of "something".
Battle Passes. "Hey! Give us 20 bucks for these skins that will only be available whenever we feel like it."
Forced social hubs. "Finished the mission? Hop in this thing that we created just to take you out of the gameplay loop, so you can see other players using some cool skins, so now you want those skins.... Right? Give us money!"
Stages locked behind coop and social stuff. "Want to play this cool new mission that gives you access to this shiny cool weapon or armor? Cool! Go play coop you dumb ass! No way you can play this shit by yourself. Just play the way and when we want... K?"
Paid weapons. "See... Buy this pass so you can have a chance in PVP... Cause if you don't get this new gun... well... good luck!"
Grind. "You want this gun? Spend 10 hour or something doing repetitive stuff."
Stagnation. "This game will last 10 years bro! So don't even think about a proper sequel... Also... When we release a sequel... All the stuff you did won't carry over.... Yeah fuck you! Time to grind again sucker! And guess what? The improvements won't be that big."
Basically.... Destiny.
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Codes 208
Member
another massive necrobump.
Considering this was originally post in March of last year, this was just before the trend of GaaS had really hit full sail. This thread was necrobumped from news reconfirming the possibility.
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JTCx
Member
Monster Hunter World? And Diablo 3 being some of the best games? Alright homeboy, time to stop posting and go play some games.
CitizenX
Banned
Have YOU not been paying attention?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
So I have a lot of experience with Fortnite, Overwatch, DotA 2, Heroes of the Storm, Rainbow Six Siege and, if I thought about it, probably a few more GAAS titles. I'll go through you reasons one by one.
1. Content locked behind set periods of time. You can use this reasoning to criticize traditional $60 dollar ($70 now?) games tenfold. If I'm playing Halo 1, I have to wait 2 years because they're locking content on a future $60 dollar game that will release in a few years. The current crop of GAAS games gives us content for free at a much faster pace. Advantage GAAS.
2. Battle Passes. Don't like the $20 dollar (most are cheaper than that) battle pass, don't buy it. Having access to the full game for free is many times superior to spending full price up front. Advantage GAAS.
3. Forced social hubs. The games I played didn't have these so I have no idea how annoying they are. Draw.
4. Stages locked behind coop. You're just complaining about additional content. Don't like it? Don't play it. But your traditional $60 dollar game probably doesn't have it either. Advantage GAAS.
5. Paid weapons. None of the games I played had paid weapons. It would be awful but it's just not prevalent enough on console. Advantage DRAW.
6. Stagnation. Right, because buying a 60 dollar game that doesn't change or grow at all is great for stagnation. I'm sure Fortnite would still be the most popular console game in the world if it didn't have any content updates. Advantage GAAS.
So this is really just single player gamers being jelly it seems.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
No! The games YOU like are bad and the games I like are good!
PresetError
Neophyte
Makes sense. Permanent Halo is better than periodic Halo for a brand that has so few flagship IP's as Xbox.
For the business model Microsoft wants to pursue they need exclusive Fortnites. The only problem I see is, if they are targeting kids, Halo (at least how we know it to this day) is not the game. It's an old frachise that appeals to old gamers with an old aesthetic.
For the business model Microsoft wants to pursue they need exclusive Fortnites. The only problem I see is, if they are targeting kids, Halo (at least how we know it to this day) is not the game. It's an old frachise that appeals to old gamers with an old aesthetic.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It'd be pretty ironic if they lost Bungie because Bungie wanted to take Halo into GaaS/MMO/looter shooter, Bungie makes Destiny and Destiny 2, both successful and now Microsoft is like "oh okay, let's make Halo Destiny now"
Aion002
Member
Well I disagree. A 60 usd game like Halo 3 was a complete experience. Sorry... I just don't agree with your points.
Now about the games you mentioned.... They are not even close to Halo. You are comparing apples to oranges. The closest paid thing we have to Halo is Destiny... Which was made by the creators of Halo (funny eh), so... Yeah... If Halo wants to be a GAAS, we can only guess that Destiny is their role model... Probably.
But sure... If it's just like Warframe, in other words, a F2P game with paid cosmetics... Hell yeah, it will be great. Warframe model is great! We can only hope...
I recommend you to play Destiny 2 (there is F2P thingy) or Warframe (F2P), both have "SP" game modes and are way closer to Halo than all those games you mentioned. Then you might see my points and make your opinion about how those things play out.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I think Fortnite is demonstrably better than Halo 3. Our preferences aren't the issue.
All GAAS is, is a model to continue supporting a game into the future.
Some GAAS games launch barebones (this is actually a great thing) while others are more fully featured.
When you have to pack everything on the disk for full price, and are barred from adding onto it, you get more safe/bland game design.
When you can launch a more minimal product, you allow developers more room to create genuinely interesting products and it doesn't sink the whole boat if it fails.
I just look back on my favorite games as a kid and all of them would be better games if they were GAAS.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It's a mechanics led game that has, bar none, the best engagement variety of any game on the market.
JTCx
Member
Aion002
Member
That's not the issue.
I love Smite and Apex.
For these games the model is great. But for a Halo type of game... Well, the only thing I can think is Destiny 2 and I love Destiny 1 and 2 (up to Forsaken, after that: NOPE!)... But still those are the main complaints.
I am not saying that they are an issue for everybody, but for many they are. So it's not just "single player gamers being jelly".
Explosive Zombie
Banned
sainraja
Member
I dunno. I can't imagine 343 going the games as a service route. They require a lot of commitment and there are already so many people are already committed to. It would have to be very unique and stand out in it's own way for them to think it should be like that. I don't believe this will be the case though, despite the name.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I don't think people realize, especially here, that Halo is a multiplayer driven title.
Destiny 1 and 2 were disappointing games due to poor game design. It had nothing to do with it being a GAAS title. That's like saying traditional $60 dollar titles stink. See Mass Effect Andromeda.
And again, GAAS is still a frontier for the industry. It's relatively new and they're trying to figure everything out. But I'd much rather know 343 is going to support Halo Infinite years after launch than drop it like cold turkey once they have my $60. I can't fathom no understanding that.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Give me my complete finished campaign on day 1 and do whatever the fuck you wanna do to the multiplayer 343.
Aion002
Member
I think you are missing my point.
I am not saying that it is poor design or not (and Destiny 1 is freaking amazing and I like D2). Just saying that those are the complaints and they are valid... I hate platform games, I can give you more than 10 reasons why I dislike Mario and Sonic, that doesn't make them bad games... Just that they have things that I don't like it on them.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I still don't understand the points.
It's essentially "I want the developer to drop my game cold turkey once their game ships" vs "The developer continues supporting the game well after it ships".
Further support is always superior.
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Is this confirmed ???
I always viewed Halo as an epic linear story focused shooter with great multiplayer.
I always viewed Halo as an epic linear story focused shooter with great multiplayer.
AeneaGames
Member
I'm rather surprised that anyone didn't see this coming. It is what MS is good at and it's what works best to keep GamePass profitable long term.
Also if done right it shouldn't be a bad thing!
Explosive Zombie
Banned
My favorite entry was the first which was linear in the sense that you couldn't skip to a later level from the start but non-linear in the sense that the arenas were very large and open, I felt like the sequels sometimes missed what was cool about the open arena design, not constantly, they were just more likely to deviate from said design.
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
That's great and all but those games were born in the GAAS framework.
Halo is viewed by many as a single player first person epic since that is what it started out as and has always been that, a linear story focused first person shooter with great multiplayer.
You can't get uppity if the fans want exactly what made Halo the franchise it is today and comparing this to GAAS titles like the above makes no sense.
I only played Halo 2 and Halo 3 (despite being a Sony fan) and i loved it. This was when i owned a 360 and played on a cousins original Xbox.
I still remember the day Halo 3 launched. Damn near EVERYONE was playing the game on launch day. You could see the notification in the Xbox Live menu. It was like that was the only game that existed on Xbox Live at that time and the servers were packed. It was absolutely insane.
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ZehDon
Banned
I don't mind GAAS, if it's implemented correctly. There's nothing inherently bad with the concept. I found The Division 2 to be a pretty great implementation of it, and I found Sea of Thieves to be a pretty great implementation of it. But, neither of those have strong narrative experiences, and they're all about that bump and grind.
For me, it comes down to: what does it offer Halo to be a GAAS. For the campaign, it offers nothing but subtractions - so that can straight fuck off. For the multiplayer, though, it offers the potential for lots of interesting developments... but if those developments fracture the community with paid-content drops and egregious micro transactions, then it's only a detriment. Horrible cosmetics that ruin the aesthetics of the experience - armour straight out of Warframe a good Halo makes not - would turn me off in a big way.
I'll have to see their proposed implementation before I could judge anything. On paper, though... I'm pessimistic.
For me, it comes down to: what does it offer Halo to be a GAAS. For the campaign, it offers nothing but subtractions - so that can straight fuck off. For the multiplayer, though, it offers the potential for lots of interesting developments... but if those developments fracture the community with paid-content drops and egregious micro transactions, then it's only a detriment. Horrible cosmetics that ruin the aesthetics of the experience - armour straight out of Warframe a good Halo makes not - would turn me off in a big way.
I'll have to see their proposed implementation before I could judge anything. On paper, though... I'm pessimistic.
Codes 208
Member
I considered halo to be the pinnacle of variation. Campaign, co-op, firefight, ranked MP, social MP, theater mode, custom games. It (more specifically halo 3) had just about everything for everybody. You take one of these out and the game loses its identity. In other words: the multiplayer is equally important as the story. Halo 5 is a bad game for example because while the mp is good people remember it for its campaign's shit narrative. Whereas halo 4 was the opposite. The campign (though divisive) had good narrative but the mp was a shallow and uninspired cod clone.
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Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Pretty much.
Very un-Halo like. But many here don't see that. It's a huge departure for the series.
Me? i don't mind. I was never a huge Halo fan but i see how this can and will probably irk fans of the franchise.
Potato Chip PRO
Member
Isn't this just the aspect for Multiplayer? I mean, if it comes with a finished campaign.. I'll be happy and not give a damn on what they do with multiplayer.
ancelotti
Member
I'll join the chorus and say I would be reasonably encouraged if they moved closer to a Destiny model.
The devil will be in the details, but I think in some ways 343 is more suited to a development process where they can iterate and improve on a narrative over time rather than take one big swing at the story and fail. They have the resources to continually pump out new content and assets, and surely something must eventually stick.
The technical execution of Halo 4 and 5 was generally excellent. Unfortunately, the leadership and creative vision let them down at the planning stages, and they ended up being less than the sum of their parts. Hopefully a change in design will minimize some of their top-down weakness and let them better exploit their prolific art generation.
The devil will be in the details, but I think in some ways 343 is more suited to a development process where they can iterate and improve on a narrative over time rather than take one big swing at the story and fail. They have the resources to continually pump out new content and assets, and surely something must eventually stick.
The technical execution of Halo 4 and 5 was generally excellent. Unfortunately, the leadership and creative vision let them down at the planning stages, and they ended up being less than the sum of their parts. Hopefully a change in design will minimize some of their top-down weakness and let them better exploit their prolific art generation.
Shmunter
Member
One superficial detriment is ridiculous player models or gun skins.
Nothing takes me out of an experience more than a knight in shining armour or pink pulsing assault rifles in a military setting. But you gotta push the absurdity to prop up the marketplace.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I agree somewhat. I wish they didn't do that. But personally, I'm so mechanics oriented that it doesn't really bother me.
In other words, I could play Chess on a Hello Kitty board and wouldn't think twice about it. Chess is chess.
But I do hear what you're saying.
REE Machine
Banned
We knew they were going to make is destiny light. 343 has zero creative ideas for a pillar franchise so whats better yet than to steal ideas of the original creators because hey "its working for them", 343 is missing something huge that bungie had, passion.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
GAAS games just don't really appeal to me. It's fine that they come out and I will even try some of them at times, but I'm not sure if I want that for Halo Infinite. I'll keep an open mind and see what it has to offer, but I just have this strange feeling about it now. Hopefully, it will still have a solid campaign at least. We'll see what happens.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Are you mostly a single player centric player? I think GAAS is becoming synonymous with multiplayer nowadays.
JimiNutz
Banned
I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of a GAAS Halo or shared world Halo game so long as it's in addition to a classic original Halo style SP campaign.
Like priority number one should be ensuring that you have a SP campaign that's similar to CE and Halo 3 in the sense that it contains a clear and coherent narrative thats focussed on Chief, is designed to be played both alone and in co-op if you chose, with some big open levels and classic Halo sandbox gameplay.
Once you've nailed that they can add all kinds of other raids/strikes, side missions, battle royale, firefight and whatever other kinds of nodes they want to add to give the game some extra longevity and sense of community.
Just make sure that you nail the classic Halo SP campaign first...
Like priority number one should be ensuring that you have a SP campaign that's similar to CE and Halo 3 in the sense that it contains a clear and coherent narrative thats focussed on Chief, is designed to be played both alone and in co-op if you chose, with some big open levels and classic Halo sandbox gameplay.
Once you've nailed that they can add all kinds of other raids/strikes, side missions, battle royale, firefight and whatever other kinds of nodes they want to add to give the game some extra longevity and sense of community.
Just make sure that you nail the classic Halo SP campaign first...
wipeout364
Member
Does Microsoft make anything other than games as service nowadays? Even Halo 5 with it's co op focus and multiplayer felt like like a games as service product( but a really crappy one). I am fine with it but they have to do a good job, Halo 5 was boring and just not good in general.