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Halo |OT16| Oh Bungie, Where Art Thou?

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I had fun on Reach tonight. The three really close games we had were nuts. Those standoffs til the last final seconds or kill. Got my heart pumping. Even if we didnt close all of them. Someone will have to carry the Reach torch tomorrow as its GF days the next couple days.

Oh yea about white text. Still dumb. Even after release. Just like we called it before release. Patch that shit out, its embarrassing CoD money grab type copying.

27-0 at 38:00 http://www.twitch.tv/sometimesimepic/b/398383734
 
Remember when people would complain about the white text? :lol Boy did that fizzle out pretty quickly.

Still vastly inferior to the text on the left and medals of yore. White text, along with some of the armour and tacky AA's sometimes make me feel like I'm playing a cutprice, knockoff Power Rangers game.

No Carbine buff??

They said a few bulletins ago that they're reducing the shots it takes to kill by one.

Not sure how I feel about the light rifle becoming a bigger beast at range. Sounds like another nail in the coffin to BTB to me but we'll see. 4 shot BR sounds tasty.
 

Tunavi

Banned
I had fun on Reach tonight. The three really close games we had were nuts. Those standoffs til the last final seconds or kill. Got my heart pumping. Even if we didnt close all of them. Someone will have to carry the Reach torch tomorrow as its GF days the next couple days.

Oh yea about white text. Still dumb. Even after release. Just like we called it before release. Patch that shit out, its embarrassing CoD money grab type copying.

27-0 at 38:00 http://www.twitch.tv/sometimesimepic/b/398383734
iVpMRX8W2aqyy.gif
 
Still vastly inferior to the text on the left and medals of yore. White text, along with some of the armour and tacky AA's sometimes make me feel like I'm playing a cutprice, knockoff Power Rangers game.

Oh yea about white text. Still dumb. Even after release. Just like we called it before release. Patch that shit out, its embarrassing CoD money grab type copying.

My point simply being that it can't be that bad if nobody felt to mention it in any shape or form for, quite literally, the last few months. Go ahead and play the "it can just be assumed at this point", but then I'd just question why you'd still elaborate on the issues that are spoken about. Nothing really groundbreaking.
 
Remember when people would complain about the white text? :lol Boy did that fizzle out pretty quickly.
I still want it gone.

Point is, when I complained about it pre-release I expected to actually like and play the game a hell of a lot more than I do. So I'll complain about the core issues more than a visual one now, because I hadn't expected the core issues to be as frustrating as they are.
My point simply being that it can't be that bad if nobody felt to mention it in any shape or form for, quite literally, the last few months. Go ahead and play the "it can just be assumed at this point", but then I'd just question why you'd still elaborate on the issues that are spoken about. Nothing really groundbreaking.
Because of the comparative level of frustation. One just annoys, the rest make me hesitate every day I think about putting in the disk.
 
My point simply being that it can't be that bad if nobody felt to mention it in any shape or form for, quite literally, the last few months. Go ahead and play the "it can just be assumed at this point", but then I'd just question why you'd still elaborate on the issues that are spoken about. Nothing really groundbreaking.

Missing the point completely. Its not that its not bad, its that worse things exist and are much more worthy of complaint. Its like getting stabbed in the hand or having a few hairs pulled out. In the scenario were you are being stabbed a few hairs being pulled is of little concern. Without the stabbing the hair getting pulled is really going to get on your nerves.

People want Halo how it was before, A lot of that stuff in the Halo 3 days made sense. Halo used to be driven by skillful gameplay, Clear skill gaps between players and tactics now its getting dragged along by gameplay that rewards people who just turn up, cluttered mechanics and bloat.

Its almost reflective of the nanny state that much of the 1st world exists in. Giving kids medals just for competing. If I get a medal for coming last and a more shiny medal for coming first I'm still getting a medal my incentive to win is decreased.
 
My point simply being that it can't be that bad if nobody felt to mention it in any shape or form for, quite literally, the last few months. Go ahead and play the "it can just be assumed at this point", but then I'd just question why you'd still elaborate on the issues that are spoken about. Nothing really groundbreaking.

Basically what Zeouter said, it pales compared to Halo 4's other enormities. Yeah, the devs were right, you don't really notice it, which begs the question why include it at all?

Plus it falls under the UI complaints which have been practically universal. Speaking for myself, I think it's underestimated how damaging the new kill feed, medal and white text UI is to that feeling of awesomeness that used to accompany multi-kills. 343 spoke of how intrinsic weapon audio was to the weapons feeling of power, impact and weight. If every time you shot the sniper it sounded like a guilty fart in a hospital waiting room it would negatively affect the feeling of that weapon, right?

By the same token, when I snipe an opponent in the head in Halo 4 and it tells me I got a generic 'sniper kill' in gross capital white lettering above the reticle it's a bland, dilute unremarkable feeling whereas the visual distinction and impact of seeing a sniper headshot that stays on the screen long enough to register in the previous games was just as important to that crucial player feedback loop as shield flickering and meaty weapon audio.
 

Madness

Member
The white text is there to strictly pander to lower skilled players. So that even the smallest thing seems special.

Oh you put two shots in a Warthog but someone else did most of the work and got a kill? WHO CARES BECAUSE YOU GOT THE AWESOME VEHICLE KILL ASSIST AND +15 POINTS!

It's to try and keep players engaged, to make them feel like they did something amazing. Instant gratification and feedback. Even if you suck ass and die 3-4 times in a row, if you get a kill after dying so many times, you get a COMEBACK KILL medal etc. Because even though you didn't comeback at all and are still running a deficit, don't feel bad.

It's like they reward mediocrity. All in the name of making the game accessible I guess. But it's unnecessary and clutters up the screen. Just because people don't complain about it as much, doesn't imply it's wanted.
 
Even if you suck ass and die 3-4 times in a row, if you get a kill after dying so many times, you get a COMEBACK KILL medal etc. Because even though you didn't comeback at all and are still running a deficit, don't feel bad.

The irony of that one is that 'comeback kill' always makes me feel rubbish when I hear it. It's a reminder of your current death streak rather than a positive affirmation.

On the other hand, 'distraction' is ok. Everyone thought you'd get it for dying to someone who was subsequently cleaned up. Turns out you have to survive so I don't mind it too much because there was always an area outside of an assist and a kill that was never credited that distraction fills.
 
Basically what Zeouter said, it pales compared to Halo 4's other enormities. Yeah, the devs were right, you don't really notice it, which begs the question why include it at all?

Plus it falls under the UI complaints which have been practically universal. Speaking for myself, I think it's underestimated how damaging the new kill feed, medal and white text UI is to that feeling of awesomeness that used to accompany multi-kills. 343 spoke of how intrinsic weapon audio was to the weapons feeling of power, impact and weight. If every time you shot the sniper it sounded like a guilty fart in a hospital waiting room it would negatively affect the feeling of that weapon, right?

By the same token, when I snipe an opponent in the head in Halo 4 and it tells me I got a generic 'sniper kill' in gross capital white lettering above the reticle it's a bland, dilute unremarkable feeling whereas the visual distinction and impact of seeing a sniper headshot that stays on the screen long enough to register in the previous games was just as important to that crucial player feedback loop as shield flickering and meaty weapon audio.

I'd still find sniper shots to be as awesome as before. Having textual confirmation of a goal in FIFA doesn't downplay how awesome the goal was. Why on earth would it?

That's one extreme I guess you could say. I have found it quite useful. I throw a plasma and run away. I get the kill. Did I stick or were they just in the blast radius? Boom, I can tell right away. '+5 Assist' is probably the most useful addition to my game too.

You say it was crucial feedback but you always had the generic sniper kill text on the left or the headshot medal. Are those not, by your definition, also limiting the awesome feeling of seeing the shield flickering and hearing the meaty weapon audio? Why so is one, literally tiny, piece of info suddenly the straw that breas the camel's back? Why is it that medals and kill feed text are a-ok but offsetting some of that to a more detailed, central role, waaaay more damaging an experience than ever before?

If the snipe you just got was awesome, why would some text you admittedly don't notice ruin that moment? I notice the text probably because I am a shitty enough player to use it more than a better player would. I get railgun kills and the combination of the hit markers plus the text (essentially 'kill confirmed') is enough of an awesome payoff on it's own. Stick around to watch the connection? Better still. I just don't see how, on any level, text can limit that payoff.

I take far more issue with the kill feed being less intrinsic at a glance. It's a bit too generic now. I find it harder to tell which team just got a kill. The white text is such a non-issue to me. I mean, I've been vocal about my gripes with how the UI tells you what you've unlocked pretty recently. Saving files can only be done with 'y' for some reason? The whole saved film area of the menu is a drak place of confusing tabs to me.

White text cripples the feedback system? I disagree.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
Killtext still annoys me, but there are bigger problems in almost every match.

Though I love hitmarkers and to know you got hit or at least damaged him with your nade.
 
Killtext still annoys me, but there are bigger problems in almost every match.

Though I love hitmarkers and to know you got hit or at least damaged him with your nade.

You're just a bad player, like me, and you need that information because otherwise you would suck more.

Shooting that warthog and having it ride out of view only to see the text pop up is confirmation that I am a bad player that should have otherwise asked if the enemy hog was still up. My team, naturally, would oblige me with such information. I am a terrible player.
 

Nebula

Member
So it was near 80 degrees Monday and Tuesday. I walk outside this morning to go to work and...



WTF WEATHER.

We didn't even hit anything resembling Spring weather until yesterday in the middle of the UK. To be honest it almost seems like we skipped Spring and hit the Summer.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I'd still find sniper shots to be as awesome as before. Having textual confirmation of a goal in FIFA doesn't downplay how awesome the goal was. Why on earth would it?

That's one extreme I guess you could say. I have found it quite useful. I throw a plasma and run away. I get the kill. Did I stick or were they just in the blast radius? Boom, I can tell right away. '+5 Assist' is probably the most useful addition to my game too.

You say it was crucial feedback but you always had the generic sniper kill text on the left or the headshot medal. Are those not, by your definition, also limiting the awesome feeling of seeing the shield flickering and hearing the meaty weapon audio? Why so is one, literally tiny, piece of info suddenly the straw that breas the camel's back? Why is it that medals and kill feed text are a-ok but offsetting some of that to a more detailed, central role, waaaay more damaging an experience than ever before?

If the snipe you just got was awesome, why would some text you admittedly don't notice ruin that moment? I notice the text probably because I am a shitty enough player to use it more than a better player would. I get railgun kills and the combination of the hit markers plus the text (essentially 'kill confirmed') is enough of an awesome payoff on it's own. Stick around to watch the connection? Better still. I just don't see how, on any level, text can limit that payoff.

I take far more issue with the kill feed being less intrinsic at a glance. It's a bit too generic now. I find it harder to tell which team just got a kill. The white text is such a non-issue to me. I mean, I've been vocal about my gripes with how the UI tells you what you've unlocked pretty recently. Saving files can only be done with 'y' for some reason? The whole saved film area of the menu is a drak place of confusing tabs to me.

White text cripples the feedback system? I disagree.

My argument has always been about placement of the killtext and the combination with Steitzer, but I personally like a lot of the additions of things like "distraction", etc., because they give me feedback and awareness of what's going on beyond motion sensors and what I can see from player icons on-screen.

Also, about that Warthog:

hog.jpg


Did they just repaint and tack on the bars to the Halo 3 hog or was this one custom-made?
 
You say it was crucial feedback but you always had the generic sniper kill text on the left or the headshot medal. Are those not, by your definition, also limiting the awesome feeling of seeing the shield flickering and hearing the meaty weapon audio? Why so is one, literally tiny, piece of info suddenly the straw that breas the camel's back? Why is it that medals and kill feed text are a-ok but offsetting some of that to a more detailed, central role, waaaay more damaging an experience than ever before?

If the snipe you just got was awesome, why would some text you admittedly don't notice ruin that moment?

White text cripples the feedback system? I disagree.

Sometimes I don't understand what you're attempting to convey in your sentences but to the quoted:

You've misinterpreted the wider gist of my point. The white text doesn't 'ruin the moment'. It doesn't 'cripple the feedback system'; it is the feedback system and is weak at conveying said feedback. If one doesn't even notice it then it is not performing its function. So what do you do? Make the text bigger? Make the font a starker colour? But then it would run the risk of obfuscating the reticle space and that won't serve so we end up back at the sensible position of wanting to see it at the left of the screen where it always has been, without issue.

You're saying that I think receiving feedback in and of itself is the problem? Lol

"More detailed, central role"

It is not more detailed. Halo 3 and Reach tell me if I've landed a headshot with the sniper with a big colourful medal. It feels good to get this medal. Halo 4 tells me I got a 'sniper kill' when I kill someone with a sniper in my hands. Like DUH! No shit I got a sniper kill. When watching a montage now if the player hits them around the neck or upper near shoulder you can't say for certain whether it's a headshot or the player was half/no shields. It diminishes the appreciation of the clip.

Tl:dr big colourful headshot medal is better than drab, barely legible text.
 
Tl:dr big colourful headshot medal is better than drab, barely legible text.

How does that translate to other information the white text gives? Distractions, all the assists, protectors, holding the hill, capturing the flag, killing the oddball carrier.

You have stated one case which, on it's own, doesn't paint the picture. To take your generalised statement, is it right to say you are suggesting we have either big colourful medals for assists and everything else (that show up in-game as opposed to post-match) or that there is a level of infrmation that simply just does not get mentioned ever?
 
How does that translate to other information the white text gives? Distractions, all the assists, protectors, holding the hill, capturing the flag, killing the oddball carrier.

You have stated one case which, on it's own, doesn't paint the picture. To take your generalised statement, is it right to say you are suggesting we have either big colourful medals for assists and everything else (that show up in-game as opposed to post-match) or that there is a level of infrmation that simply just does not get mentioned ever?

"Speaking for myself, I think it's underestimated how damaging the new kill feed, medal and white text UI is to that feeling of awesomeness that used to accompany multi-kills"

As you can see, I wasn't talking about the other stuff. Multi-kill medals are big and colourful too. I don't really care about getting medals or text for assists. Flag caps used to have a big colourful medal.
 
How does that translate to other information the white text gives? Distractions, all the assists, protectors, holding the hill, capturing the flag, killing the oddball carriet.

You have stated one case which, on it's own, doesn't paint the picture. To take your generalised statement, is it right to say you are suggesting we have either big colourful medals for assists and everything else (that show up in-game as opposed to post-match) or that there is a level of infrmation that simply just does not get mentioned ever?

I generally like the white text. For the very least kills and assists. It is extremely helpful to know when teamshooting whether you or one of your teammates got the headshot. Also useful when an enemy goes just out of sight to know that a teammate kills them.

I could take or leave the other type of text (except maybe for when you're driving the hog and your gunner kills people).
 

Havok

Member
I kind of just don't see why the center text needs to be there or what new purpose it serves. It's not providing much information you weren't being given before, and it's not presented as well either. Three sources of information in, say, Reach (medal display, killfeed, credit popup) and three sources of information in Halo 4 (medal display, killfeed, white text with score)...but now one of those sources is away from all the others? Now the killfeed has dramatically less information than it did before (generic "X killed by Y" instead of "X was killed by Y with a headshot") and is practically illegible, while the importance and presentation of the medals took a step backwards. The overall result is that more information about myself and my performance as an individual, most of which was already found elsewhere previously, is presented up-front with the high volume of white text, but less information about the overall match and my teammates. Maybe it speaks to the kind of modes I like to play, but I'd rather have general knowledge (like looking at the killfeed and knowing how someone died so that I can infer what kind of weapon the killer had based on the kill type and map) than information that's specific to my own performance.
 
"Speaking for myself, I think it's underestimated how damaging the new kill feed, medal and white text UI is to that feeling of awesomeness that used to accompany multi-kills"

As you can see, I wasn't talking about the other stuff. Multi-kill medals are big and colourful too. I don't really care about getting medals or text for assists. Flag caps used to have a big colourful medal.

As you can see from your other posts, you were only giving the example of a sniper headshot. Didn't really mention multikills at all at all. Multikills are one of the few things that even pops up as a medal anymore or so I can tell. Post game tells you that there are a lot of medals that could be used in game but aren't, probably in an attempt to avoid clutter. Clutter you seem to think has been shifted to drab, illegible, gross capital white letters.

Let's talk about the other stuff. It is what I was talking about after all. The white text. You don't care for text or medals for assists doesn't really change the fact that it is very useful information for many players.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
"Speaking for myself, I think it's underestimated how damaging the new kill feed, medal and white text UI is to that feeling of awesomeness that used to accompany multi-kills"

As you can see, I wasn't talking about the other stuff. Multi-kill medals are big and colourful too. I don't really care about getting medals or text for assists. Flag caps used to have a big colourful medal.
I liked medals for assists. Makes it much easier to figure out if you person you got to one-shot got killed or not. In Halo 4 medals disappear within a millisecond so they're kind of pointless, though.

Semi-related. I wish they would implement team colors into the killfeed already like this:
FMsTO.jpg


Also, Halo 3 medals >
Wv4EMOW.jpgg


Reach's are good too, but there's quite a few pointless ones like killing someone who's reloading, or getting a headshot on someone's who sprinting. Made the medal feed a bit messier than it needed to be.
 
As you can see from your other posts, you were only giving the example of a sniper headshot. Didn't really mention multikills at all at all.

Hahaha, nice one man, you are the GOAT troll. Genuinely had my head spinning trying to comprehend the leaps of un-logic in your posts but it's all been a ruse. Well done, you tricked me good and proper
 

Duji

Member
That entire discussion was fantastic. You (loved that SF shit you typed), BigShow (your posts make me relive wonderful memories <3) and ExWife (mappable buttons) pose some great arguments and comparisons to not only past Halo games, but other games as well.

Yeah, wow. That's probably one of the best pages here in a long time. Great posts all around.
 

Madness

Member
Don't know why they even changed so many of the medals. The medals from Halo 3 were unique and served a purpose. The newer medals are somewhat generic and way too small. Half the time I don't even know what I got or what I did.

Just more change for the sake of change and putting the 343 mark on it?
 

Gui_PT

Member
Don't know why they even changed so many of the medals. The medals from Halo 3 were unique and served a purpose. The newer medals are somewhat generic and way too small. Half the time I don't even know what I got or what I did.

Just more change for the sake of change and putting the 343 mark on it?

Sometimes I get 4 or 5 medals for one kill. They all show up in a row but I have no idea what I'm looking at =\
 
Hahaha, nice one man, you are the GOAT troll. Genuinely had my head spinning trying to comprehend the leaps of un-logic in your posts but it's all been a ruse. Well done, you tricked me good and proper

You can keep deflecting the conversation, rather needlessly, to how incompetent I am at making points or else you can use your clearly vast intellect to extrapolate what I might be saying and address the points I am making.

Let's assume I am trolling, as disingenuous as that is. What logic would you then impose that would crush my weak reasoning under?

Why can't information exist on screen that is useful to players (not all) in a way that isn't a "big, colourful" medal? You rightfully acknowledge that you barely even notice the text, let alone care what it says. So the higher level player of your stature doesn't need it. Does that mean that no one is of any benefit to it? Am I, among others, simply just too bad at the game to obtain this information by other means?
 

willow ve

Member
Don't know why they even changed so many of the medals. The medals from Halo 3 were unique and served a purpose. The newer medals are somewhat generic and way too small. Half the time I don't even know what I got or what I did.

Just more change for the sake of change and putting the 343 mark on it?

Sometimes I get 4 or 5 medals for one kill. They all show up in a row but I have no idea what I'm looking at =
It's the COD and BF mentality. Medals for everything all the time. Just fill the screen with medals so everyone can have a good time. At one point in Halo 4 I was averaging around 65 medals per game (can't check now on work internet). Sure I'm a try hard, but still the medal counts are meaningless. They even give you a medal for every single normal kill.
 
It's the COD and BF mentality. Medals for everything all the time. Just fill the screen with medals so everyone can have a good time. At one point in Halo 4 I was averaging around 65 medals per game (can't check now on work internet). Sure I'm a try hard, but still the medal counts are meaningless. They even give you a medal for every single kill.

How many of those would have actually popped up in game? Having the medals in the post game screen isn't bad in my opinion. You can see, at a glance, how each player chose to play. You can see who was a hog driver, who had called in ordnance a lot, who had been sniping, who had run the flag. Tonnes of information that would have needed quite a few extra tab screens. I think that amount of data is awesome to see and would love to see that same detail in other games too.
 

Gui_PT

Member
It's the COD and BF mentality. Medals for everything all the time. Just fill the screen with medals so everyone can have a good time. At one point in Halo 4 I was averaging around 65 medals per game (can't check now on work internet). Sure I'm a try hard, but still the medal counts are meaningless. They even give you a medal for every single normal kill.

While this is true and bad in H4, BF3 takes it to a whole other level.
bf3hud.png


I also find funny how I can get medals for being away sometimes(distraction)
 
you can use your clearly vast intellect to extrapolate what I might be saying and address the points I am making.

I'm not that clever m8

-------------------------------

"Speaking for myself [ie MY OPINION]I think it's underestimated how damaging the new kill feed, medal and white text UI is to that feeling of awesomeness that used to accompany multi-kills"

"Feeling of awesomness that used to accompany multi-kills"

"Used to accompany multi-kills"

"Multi-kills"

Hydranockz: "you didn't really mention multikills"

In my opinion, in my preference and possibly everybody or nobody elses, the big colourful multi-kill and sniper headshot medals made their correspondant actions feel more awesome. That's it. I personally think the white text is rather weak at its job. You may disagree and that's fine. If it works for you, good for you. Don't conflate Madness' posts with mine.
 

Nebula

Member
You can keep deflecting the conversation, rather needlessly, to how incompetent I am at making points or else you can use your clearly vast intellect to extrapolate what I might be saying and address the points I am making.

Let's assume I am trolling, as disingenuous as that is. What logic would you then impose that would crush my weak reasoning under?

Why can't information exist on screen that is useful to players (not all) in a way that isn't a "big, colourful" medal? You rightfully acknowledge that you barely even notice the text, let alone care what it says. So the higher level player of your stature doesn't need it. Does that mean that no one is of any benefit to it? Am I, among others, simply just too bad at the game to obtain this information by other means?

343 could help both sides and just make a toggle function for it.
 
I'm not that clever m8

-------------------------------

"Speaking for myself [ie MY OPINION]I think it's underestimated how damaging the new kill feed, medal and white text UI is to that feeling of awesomeness that used to accompany multi-kills"

"Feeling of awesomness that used to accompany multi-kills"

"Used to accompany multi-kills"

"Multi-kills"

Hydranockz: "you didn't really mention multikills".

You mentioned multikills once and proceeded to detail how awesome headshots with the snipers felt and said exactly zilch about any kind of mulitkill or how the awesomeness that used to accompany them felt worse.

Something you still haven't touched on. You've only talked about headshots with the sniper. Is that all white text is for you?
 

Gui_PT

Member
The problem with the white text, imo, it's the stupidly useless information

It lets me know I:
Killed someone with a Sniper
Killed someone with a Rocket Launcher
Killed someone with a Needler
Killed someone with a Railgun
Killed someone with a Plasma Grenade
Destroyed a vehicle
Splattered someone
Etc...

I'm playing the damn game with my eyes open! I know what weapon I'm using and if I destroyed a vehicle or ran someone over with one!
 
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