The vast majority of posts have been arguing about the highs and lows of 2D vs CG, not about whether 2D is inherently superior. One's personal preference does not equate to believing one medium is innately better than the other.
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"Hand drawn animation is inherently superior" is the most bs claim I've ever seen.
- Thread starter Boss Doggie
- Start date
Again, you're having a different discussion. No one is saying Toy Story is unwatchable, they're just saying it no longer looks good, you can still have a watchable film and look bad. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
petran79
Banned
Take also note that cinemas worldwide have become completely digital. Movies are projected from hard disk drives instead of film. This changes the whole meaning and aesthetics of those older animated films.
While CGI movies were made with that format in mind or can be converted more easily.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
lvl99 Pixel
Member
That looks largely motion capture with impressive rendering techniques rather than animation specifically
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That video linked above is rotoscoped. Both are examples of real life motion being enhanced by animators.
Complex physics engines on a mo-capped dancing model not EVEN once.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
that video is made with gesture drawings and unique animation on top of that thats look like it used real references
thats not what rotoscoping is, and the site even came with a "making of" if you wanted to see how it was done
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Dancing in general is insanely difficult to pull off in both. When people say "frame by frame" I don't think they realize what a graph editor/timeline for any polished 3D animation looks like by the time the animation is finished because of how much has to be touched up even after the initial blocking is finished.
https://track5.mixtape.moe/vzbuyt.webm
(Welcome to the Ballroom, not really good, just worth it for the dancing cuts)
(Welcome to the Ballroom, not really good, just worth it for the dancing cuts)
No, when people are talking bout 3D animation in here, they're excluding mo-cap, because its generally a different field. I'd say rotoscoped animation is probably out as well (but I know people love "La tortue rouge", so maybe I'm wrong).
lvl99 Pixel
Member
Was red turtle rotoscope? Didn't feel like it.
I think this discussion includes rotoscoping but I also know a lot of people (including myself) who sneer at it.
My personal gradient of animation "purity".
<--------mocap--------rotoscoping--------stop motion---------from reference----------only mental visualization
EDIT: Yeah, I thought as much.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
How?
This honestly just seems like it needs more frames since the poses are good.
I tend not to exclude mocap as it requires a lot of work to polish and edit. Not exactly what I would call a different field.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's insane....
theofficefan99
Junior Member
Bad quality but Ufotable is king.
Fate is bad and you should feel bad.
https://sakugabooru.com/data/eef3c49c028c166af7287eab466c6d4b.webm
https://sakugabooru.com/data/eef3c49c028c166af7287eab466c6d4b.webm
SixMachine
Member
Not going to lie, using this thread solely as an excuse to post some GIFs of what I believe is the most beautiful animated movie ever made, The Illusionist.
And also this 2015 post by MMarston that I found while googling for gifs:
Wow this is really nice, is this on netflix or amazon prime? I want to check this out, it has a nice vibe going on.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
How?
This honestly just seems like it needs more frames since the poses are good.
I tend not to exclude mocap as it requires a lot of work to polish and edit. Not exactly what I would call a different field.
Inside Out is easily the weakest one out of those, couldn't get past the textureless characters.
I don't know. I really like the video and think it looks fantastic but I'm not sure it makes me feel 2D is inherently superior. If anything it just looks like a quality professional piece of work that looks fantastic.
I think Moana also looks fantastic and it would be difficult to say which one I like more.
I think I tend to prefer 2D when it comes to characters but recently a lot of backgrounds in some of the 3D movies are pretty eye catching.
From the perspective of an animation's ability to evoke feeling or ideas I'm still waiting for when we can have 3D animation food porn
no, not sausage party
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I don't really understand the process of animation besides the basics and exactly how digitally animating changes things from traditionally animated, but animation before digital had this warmth and grit to it. Like to me it feels like there is a clear difference between hand drawn before and after digital.
Maybe this is purely an artstyle thing. Just what was in vogue during the late 80's to early 00s. Maybe it's the way backgrounds are handled. But even top tier animated shows have this extremely crisp quality to them. Some of them like Redline make sense that that's supposed to be this super slick looking movie most of the time.
This is probably not a fair standard but Cowboy Bebop is in my opinion the best looking animated television series ever made and definitely the best anime. So maybe it's not fair to compare anything against the all time great but there's a warmth and lived in-ness to the artstyle.
But while Cowboy Bebop was the best example of this other stuff still looked great in the same sort of way.
Now a days everything seems super crisp and shiny looking, even the stuff I think is super well animated.
I definitely feel like something has changed but I can't put my finger on exactly what it is and how to describe it.
And I'm not even going into CG.
Maybe I'm just a crazy person.
Maybe this is purely an artstyle thing. Just what was in vogue during the late 80's to early 00s. Maybe it's the way backgrounds are handled. But even top tier animated shows have this extremely crisp quality to them. Some of them like Redline make sense that that's supposed to be this super slick looking movie most of the time.
This is probably not a fair standard but Cowboy Bebop is in my opinion the best looking animated television series ever made and definitely the best anime. So maybe it's not fair to compare anything against the all time great but there's a warmth and lived in-ness to the artstyle.
But while Cowboy Bebop was the best example of this other stuff still looked great in the same sort of way.
Now a days everything seems super crisp and shiny looking, even the stuff I think is super well animated.
I definitely feel like something has changed but I can't put my finger on exactly what it is and how to describe it.
And I'm not even going into CG.
Maybe I'm just a crazy person.
^
Anime used to be shot on film. That gives it a decidedly different look.
Well there's Ratatouille
Anime used to be shot on film. That gives it a decidedly different look.
Well there's Ratatouille
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I forget, I watched the movies while on a mushroom trip.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
is there any hand drawn animation in this?
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I kind of miss it. There's got to be a way to recreate that sort of look with modern digital animation though.
davidwhangchoi
Member
hand drawn is king. there will never be anything like this ever again:
hand drawn is king. there will never be anything like this ever again:
These are amazing. What is it from?
SixMachine
Member
Macross, but I don't know which one, since there were multiple series. I'm guessing it might be the first movie. Though i might be wrong.
In your last examples there is a glow to everything, similar to Unreal Engine 3 games on last generation.
I will have to watch all 9000+ episodes then!
Wag
Member
The first animated full length movie- Snow White, was rotoscoped.
killatopak
Member
BS? Not at all but preferable yes.
Hand Drawn > CG
But for me it's more about coloring. Color absolutely makes or breaks animation for me that's why I like old school animation since I adore the colors.
Hand Drawn > CG
But for me it's more about coloring. Color absolutely makes or breaks animation for me that's why I like old school animation since I adore the colors.
That kind of shows how weird it is to compare TV anime to western CG films. The latter is created with significantly more time and money than the former.
Just to do some rough comparisons, the average TV anime season (13 episodes) costs about $2 million to make these days. Disney's animated films have budgets around $150 million, or the equivalent of 75 anime seasons (or 975 individual 24-minute episodes).
It's no wonder that broadcast anime (like DBZ) incorporates tons of shortcuts and relies more on dynamic posing and clever tricks to achieve its storytelling ends. It'd be financially impossible to create otherwise.
killertofu
Member
ITT: people can't distinguish between artstyle and animation.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
i could swear the beer glass gif is literally just a particle emitter, but id like to be wrong.
davidwhangchoi
Member
here's a few more from the opening sequence. hand drawn is so beautiful.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
^
Anime used to be shot on film. That gives it a decidedly different look.
Well there's Ratatouille
As much as I love Ratatouille it's far from food porn like say, Cooking Master Boy or even Yakitate Japan.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
You're taking that far too literally when Yakitate has people orgasming over food
FFXV still has the best looking 3d food in a game
