Not really that hard once you see the solutions, but the Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne Puzzle Block in Asakusa made me want to pull out my hair. I´m not good at these spatial intelligence tests.
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Hardest Mental Puzzle In Any Game
- Thread starter Dunk#7
- Start date
Of All Trades
Member
My memory of Riven is getting stuck until looking at a cluebook and being told that the way to open a door or something (in a tree?) was clicking on a non-obvious button aka a pixel-hunt. Tainted the game for me.
If you like games with different counting systems try Rama. You have to learn base12 (or something, whatever the Avians used) using different symbols for letters and a base8 system using colors (instead of shapes) for the spider race.
Those are really easy. Solve one row at a time. I usually will put them in reverse order in the row below. So I'd arrange 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 in the second row and then rotate it up top. Do the same for the second row. Afterwards, do that but for each column of 2 remaining.
I used to solve those in ~15 seconds back in high school.
I can't remember anything like that. I can't recall any pixel hunting moments in any Myst games.
I used to solve those in ~15 seconds back in high school.
I can't remember anything like that. I can't recall any pixel hunting moments in any Myst games.
Biff
Member
This may not count but does anyone remember last-gen's Enter the Matrix hacking feature?
You could access a code screen to unlock mini-games, challenges, cheats, etc. You had to learn and understand a programming language to unlock shit.
Obviously you could just go online and get what you needed, but as a 15 year old who had never programmed before, I had to learn what the hell I was doing to progress. You have to guess terms and command lines... Similar but not exact to DOS. But it's all an extremely logical process that felt very rewarding everytime you'd enter the right code. And the minigames and training simulations you unlock are actually more fun than the real game :lol
You could access a code screen to unlock mini-games, challenges, cheats, etc. You had to learn and understand a programming language to unlock shit.
Obviously you could just go online and get what you needed, but as a 15 year old who had never programmed before, I had to learn what the hell I was doing to progress. You have to guess terms and command lines... Similar but not exact to DOS. But it's all an extremely logical process that felt very rewarding everytime you'd enter the right code. And the minigames and training simulations you unlock are actually more fun than the real game :lol
divisionbyzorro
Member
I got powerfully stuck in two places when playing Braid. Never did have to get a walkthrough though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD55Xkx8QpY#t=6m30s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kioy_YzCfTI#t=0m55s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD55Xkx8QpY#t=6m30s
As you assemble a puzzle to form a tapestry that seemingly only exists in the background, you have to realize that one portion of the image is actually solid and can be used as a bridge to cross a large gap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kioy_YzCfTI#t=0m55s
In this world, reversing time creates a shadow of yourself that plays back your actions. You have to allow an enemy creature to land on your head, thus killing you, then reverse time. When the enemy kills your doppleganger, he bounces off of your head, at which point you can jump off of his head to reach the final puzzle piece. Throughout the game you have been trained to rewind time to avoid death; deliberately seeking it out is a mental stretch.
To Far Away Times
Member
The first puzzle is stupid since the reason it's hard is that it doesn't really make sense in the context of the game. It's not particularly clever, just poorly communicated.
The second puzzle is brilliant though.
Of All Trades
Member
I think there's a used bookstore nearby with pictures so I'll check there for what I'm talking about since I can't find it online, but IIRC Riven did not have a context-sensitive mouse pointer which added to the hunting (along with the lack of animation in a lot of screens).
I think most of the time I didn't do 'em from memory - I either studied the map to find somewhere which *sounded* like it'd be like the map, or memorised the *map* and kept my eyes open while playing the game.
Found all the treasure hunts unaided without feeling like it was overwhelmingly challenging.
Bad ones were. Good ones had a decent enough parser that the problems were actual *puzzles* to solve rather than wrestling trying to find the exact phrasing.
Probably talking about the hidden switch here:
I think it's on one of those lamps at the end of the bridge.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Pretty easy, as long as you pay attention to the tutorials. You don't need experience in either at all, its just that having the methodical thought processes of a good programmer can help.
Easy answer: Try the demo.
Chemistry's irrelevant, but programming skills *are* useful. That said, they're be no means necessary.
To Far Away Times
Member
The game teaches you that you can jump off the goombas to get a higher jump. Letting yourself die and then rewind is a bit of a stretch but I figured that the only way to jump higher was to use the goomba. This one only took me a few minutes but I can see where it could be really hard if you approach it without thinking that you have to use the goomba.
The first puzzle doesn't really make sense within the context of the game. The visuals lie to you and it doesn't use any of the game's time mechanics. Probably the most frustrating part of the game.
The first puzzle doesn't really make sense within the context of the game. The visuals lie to you and it doesn't use any of the game's time mechanics. Probably the most frustrating part of the game.
The only times you might have hidden buttons/switches like that are probably if they weren't meant to be hidden: i.e. they were talked about as hidden switches in a diary or something. I can't remember too many of the specific puzzles in Riven, so maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly, but the general sense I got when playing it was that all of the puzzles were logical and intuitive and in no way arbitrary.
Another great one is that you can move and rotate the start points for both Waldos.
Ben Morales
Member
Alundra had some nasty puzzles. I remember one in particular I was stuck on for days. I'd try it for a while and then get frustrated. Then I would come back the next day for more punishment. The puzzle I remember the most was in some sort of ice cave. It has been a while since I played it. Anyway, you had push these pillars around the room so that they would rest on top of switches. The problem was that these pillars slid on the ice until they came into contact with something which blocked their path.
This puzzle was ridiculous. If I tried it again today I would probably ace it, but back then I was just dumbfounded. And don't get me started on the last dungeon in the game... *shudders*
This puzzle was ridiculous. If I tried it again today I would probably ace it, but back then I was just dumbfounded. And don't get me started on the last dungeon in the game... *shudders*
To Far Away Times
Member
This thread has reminded me how much I can't stand games like Myst and Riven. I bought a box set of all the games in the series a few years back and the solutions to the puzzles were so hidden and obscure that I found it frustrating rather than fun.
The solutions in Riven require you to make a lot of connnections across places and puzzles. Everything interconnects in pretty ingenous ways.
Myst, though? Its puzzles are very straightforward. As long as you're not overly impatient, nothing should be overly difficult. You don't have to make any obscure leaps at all. Every age has a theme and the puzzles in that age are built around that theme. The only really bad puzzle I can think of in the game was the ship one where you had to press the right dot on a round dial which corresponded to an object you could view from a telescope. That puzzle felt quite arbitrary.
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
The only Braid "puzzle" that bothered me was the missable star. It sucks when you figure it out and realize you'll have to restart the game to get it. I still haven't. The second puzzle described above is amazing, as are some of the other star puzzles.
Is it important to play Myst before Riven? I missed out on the PC adventure genre growing up, but have a feeling I'd love it (puzzles, exploration, and story are game elements I'm particularly passionate about). I'm short on time these days, but I'm also sort of OCD about missing out on things or jumping ahead.
divisionbyzorro
Member
How about realizing that there are stars in the game in the first place? Quite a few players would complete the entire game and never realize that there were other challenges because nothing in the game tells you that they're there.
Genesis Knight
Member
Yeah, I'd say so. Both are on Good Old Games for modern PCs and are super cheap.
Play Myst first - it's a surrealistic adventure that will become your world. Then play Riven. Then you're done with the franchise.
Rayman 3 had an unintentional one in the "learning to use the strafe button" tutorial. You were supposed to hold it down, and then Rayman would be able to shoot around the corners of a big glassy object. You had to shoot over the left side of it, then the right, and repeat that a couple of times to get the platform you were standing on to rise.
The issue was that:
I had a friend who, no kidding, was stuck on this puzzle for four months. He played the game a load in those four months, but only ever got to play the first ten minutes because we thought that part was broken. I think someone we knew just beat it without even trying the first time he tried it and told us what button it was in the end.
The issue was that:
- The game only told you "hold the Strafe Button". It wouldn't tell you what button on your actual keyboard it was. Its name said nothing about where it might be.
- It was the Caps Lock key by default. My friends and I both had learned to avoid that key like the plague.
- You could make it seem like you were doing the right thing by jumping around the glass shield and hitting the objects right on. Doing this you would fall down and had to walk up a path to get back to the platform. In this time it sank back to its lowest position again.
I had a friend who, no kidding, was stuck on this puzzle for four months. He played the game a load in those four months, but only ever got to play the first ten minutes because we thought that part was broken. I think someone we knew just beat it without even trying the first time he tried it and told us what button it was in the end.
More on Silent Hill 3 - All of the puzzles on Hard mode were more or less ridiculous.
Puzzle 1 (already mentioned):
Puzzle 2:
Puzzle 3:
Puzzle 4:
Puzzle 1 (already mentioned):
You had to not only know the plots to 5 Shakespearean plays, but you also had to figure out what order they were in, AND THEN you had to do some basic math derived from olde english word puzzles to figure out how to manipulate the order of the 5 numbers into a 4 digit key code.
Puzzle 2:
You have a 9-digit key panel on a door, and a giant diary entry next to it. Pretty simple, right? Except the diary entry is all about someone eating some Heather's face. Then you simply have to imagine that the keypad is a face and press the corresponding buttons that line up to where on the face he tastes/eats.
Puzzle 3:
There's a poem on a crematorium door that references the 10 poems on the gurneys scattered around. Each gurney poem references a specific kind of bird an a number. You have to derive the digits by lining up the oven's poem with the correct number for the birds. This one isn't really THAT hard, but some of the poems are a little obtuse.
Puzzle 4:
You have a grid of 9 spaces and a bunch of tarot cards. The poem given to you has a listing of 9 sequences of 6 letters each, some with Xs and Is and 0s. 5 of the sequences are correct, the others are not. Again, this one isn't that difficult once you figure out the trick to it, but I know when I first looked at it it took me awhile.
I totally fucking got that puzzle on my own, laughing all the way at how ridiculous it was. I think I tried every possible combination of inventory item.The worst of all time for me is one near the start of The Longest Journey. I can't possibly believe anyone could figure it out. There is a great picture of it I'm looking for. It's laughable even to look at.
The cat hair mustache is more famous, but I've never played that game.
Weirdly, all the puzzles after that in the entire game are downright sensible.
Have to say, getting those two on my own was incredibly satisfying; I will never forget moment of "oh my god what if this works oh holy shit it does" for either one.
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
I have mixed feelings about how poorly information about stars was communicated. Very minor spoiler for the star in question:
I completed the picture you have to use for the star before I even about stars - so damned annoying.
plagiarize
Banned
piano key puzzle was pretty easy. bloody finger prints told you what valid keys you had to play with, you just had to make the leap of bird colours to key colours. to me, it was fairly obvious, because what else could it be.
anyhoo, yeah, some of these look ridiculous... slide puzzles aren't evil once you learn how to do them (apart from that genius professor leyton one).
the longest journey puzzle to get the key... that pictogram sort of doesn't do it justice, because you'd think there'd be some logic to it within the game, but there isn't. i struggled on that for WEEKS. i'd never have the patience to do that in this day and age.
SH3 i went through on hard and mostly got, though i had to look up shakespeare stuff on line, and i think i needed a tip for the face one.
but that Riven island/peg puzzle. holy fuck balls.
anyhoo, yeah, some of these look ridiculous... slide puzzles aren't evil once you learn how to do them (apart from that genius professor leyton one).
the longest journey puzzle to get the key... that pictogram sort of doesn't do it justice, because you'd think there'd be some logic to it within the game, but there isn't. i struggled on that for WEEKS. i'd never have the patience to do that in this day and age.
SH3 i went through on hard and mostly got, though i had to look up shakespeare stuff on line, and i think i needed a tip for the face one.
but that Riven island/peg puzzle. holy fuck balls.
Oh, um, yeah, I have no idea about there being stars in Braid. :-/
Am I to understand that there are some I can't even go back and get?
Am I to understand that there are some I can't even go back and get?
So true. It seriously is the most haphazard sequence of events and item combinations ever. Looking back, it's almost as though that puzzle is poking fun at the point-and-click genre in general, because the rest of the game's puzzles are pretty damn logical for an inventory-based adventure game.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422393
Not enough mentions of SpaceChem in this thread!
The fact that you can solve levels multiple ways is the best part of it. Often, you'll figure out the basic concepts you need to finish a level, and likely brute force a solution. But after you get better in later levels you can go back and take a completely different approach you may not have considered to make a more efficient solution.
Did I mention there hasn't been enough mentions of SpaceChem?
Not enough mentions of SpaceChem in this thread!
The fact that you can solve levels multiple ways is the best part of it. Often, you'll figure out the basic concepts you need to finish a level, and likely brute force a solution. But after you get better in later levels you can go back and take a completely different approach you may not have considered to make a more efficient solution.
Did I mention there hasn't been enough mentions of SpaceChem?
NullPointer
Member
Loved those. They were also a great change of pace from the regular game.
They aren't in Revelations are they? Bummer if not.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
The later levels and challenges are indeed intimidating. But the early levels are much easier as the game starts to teach you how the systems work.
Eventually, your mind "gets it" as you learn new techniques to pass levels, and then suddenly the crazy-looking stuff like the above seem downright approachable. That image was a rather creative solution, if not horribly inefficient.
divisionbyzorro
Member
One of the biggest mental leaps is to realize that you need to program certain reactors serially. That is, instead of always assuming that the input of your reactor always looks the same, you can actually build with the knowledge that the atoms will be different each time you hit the input, but they will come in a known sequence. This opens you up to an entirely different world of possibilities.
Eventually, your mind "gets it" as you learn new techniques to pass levels, and then suddenly the crazy-looking stuff like the above seem downright approachable. That image was a rather creative solution, if not horribly inefficient.
The only way I can play SpaceChem is to just be happy when I solve the puzzle, regardless of where my solution fits on the curve.
Tell me about it, I've never seen that symbol before. Just got done with the fusion stuff, now I'm working on some fission assignments.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
I'm actually quite surprised how many mentions of SpaceChem there are.
Is that your solution to Tunnels III? That's one of the only puzzles I had what I would call an elegant solution. Everything else I come up with is completely cluttered and ugly. Solution didn't work? ADD MORE SYMBOLS!
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
That's my initial approach to new levels. Eventually though, my competitiveness makes me go back to earlier levels and come up with a better solution.The only way I can play SpaceChem is to just be happy when I solve the puzzle, regardless of where my solution fits on the curve.
Nah, S.L. posted it in the SpaceChem thread. Snagged it cuz it looks cool.
Adding more symbols always helps. Always!
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
Just one (I believe).
Don't complete all of the world jigsaw puzzles immediately. One of them, I forget if it's world 2 or 3, has two pieces you can line up to create a star. Once you've completed the puzzle properly, you can't move the pieces any longer so you can't form the star.
Bought this on PSN and this was the farthest I got. Haven't touch it since.Silent hill 1
that damn Piano puzzle..
I can't believe how early in the game this was.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I was always mad that there wasn't a curve for "least waste" for the levels with garbage bins. For some reason, that was always where my neurosis went; I didn't care how inefficient I was with time or symbols: if I could solve the solution using every last atom I was given, I would do it.
Of course, I'm only a little over halfway through the worlds. I need to get back in there!
Too late I guess...
Can I go on record and say I don't think it is ever a good idea for a game to do this? I'm fine with something being HARDER to get if you miss it the first time, but impossible?
TheNatural
My Member!
I never figured out the way to get out of the dungeon in Maniac Mansion NES. I forgot how to do it now again, I don't think I could beat the game again.
mclaren777
Member
Some of the last few time travel puzzles in Ratchet & Clank were pretty tough.
divisionbyzorro
Member
But that's kinda the point. The game is all about rewinding time and undoing mistakes. This mistake can't be undone.
Unless you delete your save of course.
InfiniDragon
Member
Though likely not the worst in any game, the hardest puzzle I ever went through personally was the final book puzzle in De Le Metalica in the original Wild ARMs.
So. Damn. Annoying. :/
So. Damn. Annoying. :/