Lifejumper
Member
I wonder if anyone has the balls to ask kathlee n kennedy if they will ever release the OT in its original state. Kinda strange it hasnt been asked.
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Harmy's Despecialized Editions of the Original Star Wars Trilogy
- Thread starter Anth0ny
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I hope return of the Jedi 2.0 releases soon. The eye brows on dying Vader are bad lol..
But I love what harmy did.
But I love what harmy did.
I think his disaclaimer that the project is pure non profit and that he does it so future generations can watch the movies like they were in the past helps.
matrix-cat
Member
Last time I fell down the Harmy rabbit hole of sketchy forums and download managers he'd only just released SW Despecialized 2.0, so it looks like I've got some updating to do. Thankfully they're a whole lot easier to get hold of than they used to be, though. Now I just need to get my hands on a Blu Ray burner at some point.
Lucasfilm has always turned a blind eye to this sort of thing. The 501st Legion, who LFL hire to do official events, almost exclusively wear unlicensed costumes. It is good fan relations. As long as it is mostly underground, by fans and for fans, and not done notoriously, I don't think they care. There was concern this might be different under Disney's stewardship, but nothing seems to have changed. In fact they reached out to the fan community for help in obtaining props for the new films.
The only person who has been sued for this sort of thing was the guy who fabricated the original Stormtrooper armour. He was selling armour and advertising in magazines. That was a step too far, especially as he was trying to claim ownership of the design.
The funny thing is the court case in England held that the design of the Stormtrooper (and potentially all of the original Star Wars props, including Vader) is in the public domain in the UK, and therefore fair game for anyone.
As to whether the original cuts will ever see the light of day again: I'd be shocked if they weren't already being restored by Disney's asset protection department. They make safety copies of everything and have world class facilities. Whether or not we'll ever get them is another question, but the fact nothing has been announced means very little. You don't announce a new product while you still have lots of existing stock to get rid of.
The much mooted 4K restoration, which may or may not be different from the latest Blu-ray cut, was being worked on before the Disney sale: possibly for the 3D re-release which was planned before Disney canned it. Who knows what they are planning to do with it?
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Does the ROTJ workprint fix the eyebrows?
I get that, but this is a whole step beyond. The 501st, as far as I am aware, don't distribute unlicensed products widely, whereas this is a completely open to whomever redistribution of the core Star Wars product.
I would be amazed if there isn't a decent restoration of the original trilogy at Lucasfilm, which would then have been built upon to create the Special Editions. I don't believe them when they say there isn't.
Skellig Gra
Member
I just don't see there being much demand for them. The original versions look like shit in the modern world.
infinityBCRT
Member
Are you talking about the laserdisc masters? Yes those are bad. But Lucasfilm has the resources and ability to restore the original versions. Not only was one fan able to do it on a shitty laptop with all unofficial sources but there are also several pristine prints of the original movies in the wild.
It'd be nice if they did a blade runner type thing and had
- original theatrical cut (I think a new hope had two versions with changes to opening crawl)
- 97 se cut
- 2004 cut
- bluray cut
- new final cuts which are just the original versions with some of the bad sfx cleaned up, emperor looking consistent in empire and that's it
And maybe new prequel cuts which incorporate some of the ideas from the fan edits out there to make those movies more watchable, and heck maybe even redo some of the terrible cgi (like the clone troopers with cgi armor) to be practical.
That'd be the dream versions for me.
Not really. There are people who make a living making replica costumes and props. They charge money for their wares and people buy them instead of officially licensed stuff. Because they are only doing it on a small scale and within a community LFL turns a blind eye, as the people who partake in this are the same people who would spend huge sums on merchandising.
Same with Harmy. Those who know about and care about the Special Edition changes enough to seek out the original cuts make up a (very vocal admittedly) minority. For most people the Blu-rays will suffice. Again these are, typically the type of fan to buy merchandise. The type of fan you don't want to alienate without good cause.
Lucasfilm and now, seemingly, Disney seem to be embracing this and turning a blind eye. It is a far cry from the bad old Eisner days where cease and desist letters were sent out by the hundred. You can be assured they know about it but are willing to let it go.
The Special Edition restoration found most of the effects shots in the negative had deteriorated to a point where they were useless. The plate footage still exists but would need to be recomposited (which is what they did for some shots in the SEs) or recreated (which is what they did for the rest). The negative is now conformed to the '97 cuts.
Every optical, be it wipe, dissolve or effects shot, was redone and cut in with the original camera footage. When Lucas said the original cut doesn't exist it was true, from a certain point of view.
However the original cuts could be recreated from interpositives and other protection film. This is why I suspect Disney's asset protection department has been working on protecting the original cuts. They protect everything even if there is no plan to ever release it.
Skellig Gra
Member
I think the dream scenario is basically a do over of the 97 version without the BS. Redo all the original effects shots, clean things up and leave it at that. But that is a serious undertaking.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
The original despecs weren't based off of the blurays as they predate them. They were sourced from various versions of the OT including an HD broadcast that aired in europe. He's gone back and done newer despecs using the blu ray footage. Those tend to be much bigger files than the original despecs, nearly 20 gigs per film as opposed to the 7-8 gigs each from the first batch of despecs. I'm pretty sure they're now at 1080p
no. the 20GB files are still 720p. he said that because of the different sources and the different qualities of the sources 720p is the sweet spot. of course all of that is IIRC.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
Glass Shark
Banned
I just watched the video that goes over all the different sources and methods used. Wow. I had no idea so much work went into it.
Disney should just hire this guy.
Disney should just hire this guy.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I'm surprised no one has asked yet. I suppose it shows that the alterations don't really bother that many people.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
The Despecs do a lot of cleanup and enhancements, they just also aim to preserve the films as close to how they originally released as possible, so much so that they even removed the Episode IV from ANH.
just look at this album if you want to see how thorough they were about it
now, if you want some things removed like yub nub or something then im not sure where you would find that type of mixed version of these films
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Another way of looking at it is that right now (I just checked) the Despecialized Episode 4 appears on the first page of searching for "Star Wars" on The Pirate bay, eleventh on the page when searching for "A New Hope" and the Empire Despecialized version is fourth on the page when searching for "Empire Strikes Back". These are not well hidden or confined to small collector communities, they are widely available and popular.
For now.
That Lucasflm say, as they want you to forget all about the original versions. The difference between you and me is that I don't believe them. I think they used the myth of there being no decent source as an excuse to force people into accepting the Special Editions as the true Star Wars, which they then tried to sell to us again and again with subtle changes with each new version of the Special Editions.
I simply can't believe that Lucasfilm, that has a bloody archive for keeping old Star Wars crap, couldn't manage to keep decent copies of the original films. It is like they want us to think all they have is VHS copies of copies of the original versions. But unfortunately they've been shown up by a single Czech guy with his home computer.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I just want originals, with a branching option on ANH with the biggs scene and the other friends scene.
It's insane to me that they haven't just gone full-on Blade Runner on this and made all the money.
That had a 5-disc Ultimate Collector's Edition with 5 different versions of the film: the Workprint, the Theatrical Cut, the International Cut, the Director's Cut, and the Final Cut.
I would spend an obscene amount of money for a Star Wars collection with all the different versions. Granted, I'd mostly watch the original, unaltered ones, but it would be great to have the others around as a source of reference and contrast.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
Truthfully, my issue has never been with Lucas's meddling with these films so much as with his reluctance to release the OT with the same level of care and quality as his newer edits.
If (when?) they finally get around to releasing the OT as they are with these Harmy despecs I'll gladly fork over my cash. Hell, i bought the prequels on blu ray so i'm not against giving them money, just want the version of the films i prefer.
Speaking of the PTs, wonder if people will ever despec those versions. There were changes made to them when brought out on Blu Ray and even the DVD versions had differences between them and the theatrical cuts.
Surely Disney realizes how easily they can push the original, unaltered trilogy on hardcore and casual Star Wars fans alike and charge a metric fuckton for them.
Line it up with the 40th anniversary of Star Wars and the release of episode VIII. Golden opportunity right there. Hype will be as high for Star Wars as its ever been. It will have been 6 years since the release of 2011 Star Wars blu rays, people will be ready to double dip.
Line it up with the 40th anniversary of Star Wars and the release of episode VIII. Golden opportunity right there. Hype will be as high for Star Wars as its ever been. It will have been 6 years since the release of 2011 Star Wars blu rays, people will be ready to double dip.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Isn't scanning the 35mm prints quite an expensive process? You need access to professional equipment and all that.
Do you have any samples on what those scans look like?
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
you underestimate the level of fandom that exists out there lol
I'm sure fans would gladly contribute but having a Kickstarter or whatnot would be a very, very grey legal area (i.e. illegal).
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Indeed I do! It's easy to forget how dedicated the Star Wars fandom is.
I do wonder what condition these prints are in.
Edit:
Yeah. Some of the people who own prints very likely spent a lot of money just to get them, so I won't be surprised if they spend even more to scan them.
Lucas doesn't sue people over fanedits. In fact, I don't see why people don't just release these things on YouTube or Vimeo instead of making us jump through hoops.
It's actually pretty amazing that in a world where we literally have Star Wars-branded everything, we still don't have official high definition versions of the films that people saw in theaters 30 years ago.
The Despecialized editions are indeed very impressive, however the quality is inconsistent from shot to shot, since multiple sources were used. Disney would be insane not to try and strike up a deal with Fox or Lucasfilm or whatever and get the original trilogy released when the new trilogy hype is so strong. Maybe bundle them as a bonus with the new rumored 4K remasters?
The Despecialized editions are indeed very impressive, however the quality is inconsistent from shot to shot, since multiple sources were used. Disney would be insane not to try and strike up a deal with Fox or Lucasfilm or whatever and get the original trilogy released when the new trilogy hype is so strong. Maybe bundle them as a bonus with the new rumored 4K remasters?
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
because lucas doesn't run the show any longer? disney would have those cuts flagged and removed if that was done
The Broken Ska Record
Member
I have a feeling its being done so they can sell more copies down the line.
Here's some super preliminary stuff:
ESB clip
RotJ:
It's been painstaking work that's often delayed as better source reels turn up, but progress so far looks pretty good.
There's other fanedits of SW on YouTube that have been up for months. Also, all flagging means is that they can't monetize the video.
I just watched the Laserdisc set over the weekend (my first time watching the original trilogy), and while the quality was way better than I had expected, the strangest thing about it was being able to see the outlines of the cels that ILM used to do the special effects, especially in the space scenes. It's like a floating grey box that surrounds the ships. It showed up again real noticeably during RotJ, when Palpatine sits on his throne and he has a light square over his eyes, where I guess it was too dark and they needed to lighten it.
Next up is the 97SE set, which I found on VHS (my father's copy) and then I'll have watch these Despecialized editions. I need to understand all this nerd rage for myself.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Oh wow, that looks great. There's some cleanup that's obviously needed, but it's really good otherwise.
The 2004 DVDs still have those floating grey boxes. It's really easy to notice in Star Wars when the Falcon escapes the Death Star and they have to shoot down TIE Fighters.
Thanks! That looks better I thought.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Now there just needs to be a version that destroys both Yub Nub and Hayden. Perfection. Along with the other unaltered footage I mean.
The Hermit
Member
This looks incredible. Always been super impressed with team negative1's work.
Also, in case anyone was unaware, there are a number of technicolor prints for Star Wars out there in hands of collectors. If Disney wanted to (and somehow don't have access to the original, unaltered negative which I still think is a lie from Lucas) they could track one down and base their unaltered remaster on that. It would be perfect.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I'm curious - when scanning in this stuff for a Blu-Ray, they use different prints don't they?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The problem with that is the collectors technically aren't supposed to have those. Those prints were supposed to go back to 20th Century Fox at some point. In that scenario, said collector would essentially have to turn their print over, period.
There's also a visual effects artist, Mike Verta, who's been restoring an original Technicolor print as a hobby for the past 15 years. He put up some videos on Vimeo explaining his painstaking process here:
https://vimeo.com/channels/starwarslegacy
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And the problem with keeping an eye on THAT one is that he's never going to allow anyone to get their hands on it. He pretty much can't, I don't think, due to the way he's gone about doing it.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Mike Verta is also getting rid of the technical errors like the boxes around ships.
None of that matters since it'll never be publicly released, as Bobby said above.
None of that matters since it'll never be publicly released, as Bobby said above.
Didn't Disney approach fans for their prints of cartoons on the Walt Disney Treasures DVD releases? I seem to remember reading that.
I might be mixing that up with Looney Tunes or Tom and Jerry or something, though.
Verta's remaster is the remaster, it seems. Too bad it won't be released to the public... unless Disney asks him to officially release it.
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