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[jtb]

The difference between Star Trek and Star Wars is simple though. Star Wars is a pop culture phenomenon. Star Trek is niche. So it's fair to hold the original trilogy in reverence, because, frankly, it is that iconic and Star Wars is, without a shadow of a doubt, the largest movie property existing.

I'm fine with spinoffs. I think spin-offs would be great, actually—Star Wars has a rich universe, lots of potential. But more of the Seven Samurai-reimagination type, more KoTOR, less dredging up old characters. No one wants a spinoff of a main character. They might think they do, but they really don't. If that main character had a meaningful arc, it would've been in a movie already. Revisionist retcons do no one any good. I can't think of a single movie spinoff of a major character that has been any good, because they are completely and utterly pointless.

We don't need to know what Aragorn was doing before the Lord of the Rings because if that was important, it would've been in the Lord of the Rings. (You could make the case for the Hobbit --> LoTR fits the bill, and that's the only one that remotely came close in my mind, but there's a good 60 year gap. Not what's being proposed with these movies.)

Obi-Wan has an arc. Is it a good arc? not particularly, but it exists and further prequel-ing it up is destined for failure. It's done. Same (especially) with Han. He had an arc. It had a beginning, and an ending. It's done. Let it be, Kennedy. You can make far more money making quality spin-offs over the easy cash in. Retconning character arcs is always, always a recipe for disaster. It's why prequels in general are usually failures.

 

[Real Hero]

make a star wars movie without jedis

 

[Ether_Snake]

I'm sure Luke won't be doing any academy Jedi-training stuff. He'll be gone or something like that. It would make the most sense for a good director to take that approach and have Luke be out of the spotlight. Probably partially affected by the dark side, choosing to remain away to prevent himself from falling to the dark side and trying to heal. Someone will need his help and he'll come back a little bit, probably to help train a new Jedi, realizing the need to pass on what he has learned. That allows you to have practically no need for explanatory post-episode-VI backstory to cover.

A new threat shows up. Solo/Leia are in danger. Luke can't do much on his own, but helps someone (Leia's kid?) learn the Jedi way before dying himself.
Episode VIII has Solo and Leia dying, new hero struggles with dark side.

 

[Kinyou]

Dan Radcliffe all the way.

Cast Emma Watson as everyone => new box office record.

 

[Dice]

I thought Ewen did a great job as Obi Wan. True, he didn't have much to work with in Phantom Menace, but he really came into his own in the other two movies. To today's generation, Ewen IS Obi Wan. Sir Alec was Obi Wan in only one film and did cameos in two other films.

Definitely. The role had to go to someone, and it went to Ewan. Ewan wasn't a "fake Obi" because those movies "didn't count" or whatever other ridiculous view/attitude you want to take on. Those are official Star Wars and if you don't like it you just have to deal with it. Episode 4-6 may be far better films, but that doesn't make them "real Star Wars" and the rest "fake Star Wars" or something of that sort. The lore of the franchise expanded through Episode 1-3 and will continue to expand, and what it becomes is what Star Wars is, and some parts will have more than one incarnation as parts of the timeline are revisited from different angles. Just like what happened with Star Trek. People need to let go, chill out, and let the creative expansion of the franchise happen. If they can't and absolutely must hold on to THE ONE TRUE STAR WARS then I am really left dumbfounded as to why they would even involve themselves in a discussion of where to take the franchise.

 

[TDLink]

The difference between Star Trek and Star Wars is simple though. Star Wars is a pop culture phenomenon. Star Trek is niche. So it's fair to hold the original trilogy in reverence, because, frankly, it is that iconic and Star Wars is, without a shadow of a doubt, the largest movie property existing.

I'm fine with spinoffs. I think spin-offs would be great, actually—Star Wars has a rich universe, lots of potential. But more of the Seven Samurai-reimagination type, more KoTOR, less dredging up old characters. No one wants a spinoff of a main character. They might think they do, but they really don't. If that main character had a meaningful arc, it would've been in a movie already. Revisionist retcons do no one any good. I can't think of a single movie spinoff of a major character that has been any good, because they are completely and utterly pointless.

We don't need to know what Aragorn was doing before the Lord of the Rings because if that was important, it would've been in the Lord of the Rings. (You could make the case for the Hobbit --> LoTR fits the bill, and that's the only one that remotely came close in my mind, but there's a good 60 year gap. Not what's being proposed with these movies.)

Obi-Wan has an arc. Is it a good arc? not particularly, but it exists and further prequel-ing it up is destined for failure. It's done. Same (especially) with Han. He had an arc. It had a beginning, and an ending. It's done. Let it be, Kennedy. You can make far more money making quality spin-offs over the easy cash in. Retconning character arcs is always, always a recipe for disaster. It's why prequels in general are usually failures.

I agree that brand new ideas like the proposed seven samurai with jedi idea are the preferable ones to be made into spin-off films. However, I am not opposed to random side-adventures with established characters like Han Solo and Boba Fett that take place between or before previous films. I think single films focusing on those characters just telling their own self-contained story/adventure have the potential to be a lot of fun.

 

[jtb]

Definitely. The role had to go to someone, and it went to Ewan. Ewan wasn't a "fake Obi" because those movies "didn't count" or whatever other ridiculous view/attitude you want to take on. Those are official Star Wars and if you don't like it you just have to deal with it. Episode 4-6 may be far better films, but that doesn't make them "real Star Wars" and the rest "fake Star Wars" or something of that sort. The lore of the franchise expanded through Episode 1-3 and will continue to expand, and what it becomes is what Star Wars is, and some parts will have more than one incarnation as parts of the timeline are revisited from different angles. Just like what happened with Star Trek. People need to let go, chill out, and let the creative expansion of the franchise happen. If they can't and absolutely must hold on to THE ONE TRUE STAR WARS then I am really left dumbfounded as to why they would even involve themselves in a discussion of where to take the franchise.

It's not about "real" vs. "fake." It's about good vs. bad. Is it really so difficult to understand that someone would want the future of the franchise to more on the good side than the bad side?

 

[TDLink]

It's not about "real" vs. "fake." It's about good vs. bad. Is it really so difficult to understand that someone would want the future of the franchise to more on the good side than the bad side?

Having a stand alone movie with Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi is not an inherently bad idea. I will say though that Obi-Wan having a stand alone film would probably lead to being a bit boring. Han Solo and Boba Fett both are characters who lend themselves well to standalone adventures on the other hand which is probably why those are the ones they are going with.

 

[Dice]

The difference between Star Trek and Star Wars is simple though. Star Wars is a pop culture phenomenon. Star Trek is niche. So it's fair to hold the original trilogy in reverence, because, frankly, it is that iconic and Star Wars is, without a shadow of a doubt, the largest movie property existing.

*expansion theory based on this view*

Nope. I completely disagree. I say play with it, have fun, revisit, have big stories and small stories, big films and short series. Culture manifests in so many ways, and if you want something to be a cultural force you have to allow that, not try to protect some specific ideal.

 

[Solo]

They are badly written, humorless, and .... show a lack of understanding what made Star Wars so great.

Sounds like the prequels.

 

[jtb]

Having a stand alone movie with Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi is not an inherently bad idea.

It's not, but it's a very difficult balancing act. Why take that risk and further devalue the core of this franchise (because, I don't think it's too controversial an opinion to say that the 1) OT is better than the prequels, and 2) the OT is more culturally relevant than the prequels)? Just look at the prequels: people didn't just dislike them because they were terrible films. They disliked them because they also retroactively made elements of the OT worse.

 

[Tobor]

Sounds like the prequels.

True enough.

 

[Real Hero]

Obi Wan was so boring in the prequels don't remember a single thing about him other than who played him.

 

[Solo]

BTW the spin-off movies is the worst idea they've had for Star Wars yet.

 

[TDLink]

It's not, but it's a very difficult balancing act. Why take that risk and further devalue the core of this franchise (because, I don't think it's too controversial an opinion to say that the 1) OT is better than the prequels, and 2) the OT is more culturally relevant than the prequels)? Just look at the prequels: people didn't just dislike them because they were terrible films. They disliked them because they also retroactively made elements of the OT worse.

Nothing in life happens unless you take risks. Making more Star Wars films at all is still taking risks. Right now your entire argument is stipulated upon the future films being bad. If they are it is more likely going to be due to bad writing and direction than actor choices. Right now they have selected good writers and a good director for the first sequel. They seem to be on the right track so I don't really feel a cause for concern right now.

Personally I don't feel the prequels took away from my appreciation of the OT. Those movies will always be those movies.

 

[jtb]

Nope. I completely disagree. I say play with it, have fun, revisit, have big stories and small stories, big films and short series. Culture manifests in so many ways, and if you want something to be a cultural force you have to allow that, not try to protect some specific ideal.

Well then we'll just agree to disagree then. I guess I'm in a much more conservative viewpoint in that I just am not a fan of collaboratively building a character's life through a mismash of different stories from different authors, etc.—I much prefer a consistent authorial voice.

Though, clearly you're right in that Star Wars crossed that bridge a long time ago, both with the existence of the EU and the prequels, which even with the same author, were wildly different from the OT anyways. I just think this is a chance to start anew (given the EU will be completely obliterated), and it seems that they don't want to take advantage of this opportunity.

Nothing in life happens unless you take risks. Making more Star Wars films at all is still taking risks. Right now your entire argument is stipulated upon the future films being bad. If they are it is more likely going to be due to bad writing and direction than actor choices. Right now they have selected good writers and a good director for the first sequel. They seem to be on the right track so I don't really feel a cause for concern right now.

Personally I don't feel the prequels took away from my appreciation of the OT. Those movies will always be those movies.

High risk, very low reward. I already know everything I could possibly want to know about Obi-Wan and those that I don't are better left to the imagination.

 

[Tallshortman]

It's not about "real" vs. "fake." It's about good vs. bad. Is it really so difficult to understand that someone would want the future of the franchise to more on the good side than the bad side?

Ewan McGregor was far from the reason why the prequels were inferior to the original trilogy.

 

[Slavik81]

Was the EU always so reviled, or did the awful prequels cause a backlash of hatred for anything that was not the original trilogy?

 

[TDLink]

High risk, very low reward. I already know everything I could possibly want to know about Obi-Wan and those that I don't are better left to the imagination.

How is it low reward at all? I would say it's more the other way around. Low Risk, High Reward. Star Wars is the largest film property of all time. They make more there is a low risk of diluting the brand, but a high reward of boatloads of cash. Regardless of quality Disney is going to make ridiculous bank on these movies.

I agree Obi-Wan isn't the best character to explore in a standalone movie, as I said before, we know too much about him already and further films about his life on Tatooine or whatever would just be boring.

I think the standalone Han Solo and Boba Fett films could turn out well though. They are both characters with long pasts filled with many untold adventures. Telling one of each of their untold adventures has very little risk of ruining those characters. There are still many more that would be left untold.

 

[jtb]

Ewan McGregor was far from the reason why the prequels were inferior to the original trilogy.

Just because he didn't destroy the prequels doesn't mean he was good in them. Is that Lucas' fault? Hell yeah! Does that mean Ewan was any good? Nope.

There's no reason to think that the many problems that plagued the plot and character development in the prequels will not resurface in a spin-off. Lucas struggled particularly poorly with them, no doubt, but those problems are inherent in any prequel or attempt to retcon a character's life.

How is it low reward at all? I would say it's more the other way around. Low Risk, High Reward. Star Wars is the largest film property of all time. They make more there is a low risk of diluting the brand, but a high reward of boatloads of cash. Regardless of quality Disney is going to make ridiculous bank on these movies.

I agree Obi-Wan isn't the best character to explore in a standalone movie, as I said before, we know too much about him already and further films about his life on Tatooine or whatever would just be boring.

I think the standalone Han Solo and Boba Fett films could turn out well though. They are both characters with long pasts filled with many untold adventures. Telling one of each of their untold adventures has very little risk of ruining those characters. There are still many more that would be left untold.

Well, quality-wise. I honestly can't see any movie in the Star Wars universe being a bomb: stick a lightsaber in the trailer and you've got a 100m opening weekend right there. And as much money as the prequels made, they made a fraction of the money the OT did and the reason is simple. The OT was good. The prequels were not.

Boba Fett can turn out well. Han, I'm much more skeptical.

 

[Real Hero]

personally I want a gungan high school comedy about Boss Nass's early years.

 

[Tacitus_]

Dan Radcliffe all the way.

He'd totally go Dark Side since having a british accent was the Empires hat.

 

[TDLink]

He'd totally go Dark Side since having a british accent was the Empires hat.

Yeah C-3P0 and Obi-Wan were totally evil cause of those accents.

 

[eastmen]

Hmm. Old characters returning is not at all what I wanted out of these movies. I'll just keep telling myself it can't be worse than the prequels.

With the age of the original cast this is most likely the last chance to do this

 

[Anticitizen One]

I'm really concerned Harrison only agreed to this because Kasdan promised him there gonna finally kill off Han now that Lucas is out of the picture

It's going to be something dumb like Han misleading everyone telling them to evac the Falcon unto a safer ship and then quickly climb back aboard and take off so that he can fly the Falcon away from the others and create a diversion so they can get to safety and die in a blaze of glory.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I'm really concerned Harrison only agreed to this because Kasdan promised him there gonna finally kill off Han now that Lucas is out of the picture

If it's done well, I wouldn't have a problem with this.

 

[Tacitus_]

Yeah C-3P0 and Obi-Wan were totally evil cause of those accents.

Exceptions make the rule.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

If it's done well, I wouldn't have a problem with this.

Could turn into sort of a nice arc.

 

[DjRoomba]

I'm really concerned Harrison only agreed to this because Kasdan promised him there gonna finally kill off Han now that Lucas is out of the picture

It's going to be something dumb like Han misleading everyone telling them to evac the Falcon unto a safer ship and then quickly climb back aboard and take off so that he can fly the Falcon away from the others and create a diversion so they can get to safety and die in a blaze of glory.

Yeah this, or Kasdan doesnt actually have that much to do with this movie and Ford was glad to take a role in a JJ Abrams movie. One of the two

 

[Thug Waffle]

They are badly written, humorless, and like most Star Wars books, show a lack of understanding what made Star Wars so great.

There are some really great Star Wars books out there, though. None of them have been written by Karen Traviss.

 

[jtb]

Yeah this, or Kasdan doesnt actually have that much to do with this movie and Ford was glad to take a role in a JJ Abrams movie. One of the two

or, ya know, money.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Are they gonna age Chewy's fur? They should just say Chewy went to go live on a farm where he could frolic in all the open space.

 

[Solo]

I'm really concerned Harrison only agreed to this because Kasdan promised him there gonna finally kill off Han now that Lucas is out of the picture

Why in hell would you be concerned about this? You should be happy about this, if true.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Well Kasdan and Harrison had meetings where they came up with a good way to kill Han in ROTJ and both pushed Lucas like crazy and Lucas said nope

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Are they gonna age Chewy's fur? They should just say Chewy went to go live on a farm where he could frolic in all the open space.

If Han goes, Chewie goes. Maybe the Falcon goes, too...

you thought nerds took it bad when they blew up the Enterprise in Star Trek III.

 

[jtb]

Well Kasdan and Harrison had meetings where they came up with a good way to kill Han in ROTJ and both pushed Lucas like crazy and Lucas said nope

Wasn't he supposed to die in the Death Star explosion instead of Lando? I think Lucas made the right call there, frankly.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Are they gonna age Chewy's fur? They should just say Chewy went to go live on a farm where he could frolic in all the open space.

Chewie won't be in this movie because he died in Vector Prime when a Moon fell on him.

Spoiler

he'll be in the movie

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Well Kasdan and Harrison had meetings where they came up with a good way to kill Han in ROTJ and both pushed Lucas like crazy and Lucas said nope

Yeah, Lucas fucked up big. Han could have gone out like a boss. Instead he was turned into this simpering, blubbering vagina.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah, Lucas fucked up big. Han could have gone out like a boss. Instead he was turned into this simpering, blubbering vagina.

Solo's character was castrated, but I don't think he ever BLUBBERED in Jedi.

 

[Tacitus_]

If Han goes, Chewie goes. Maybe the Falcon goes, too...

you thought nerds took it bad when they blew up the Enterprise in Star Trek III.

Nerds are going to be screaming bloody murder no matter what happens.

Wasn't he supposed to die in the Death Star explosion instead of Lando? I think Lucas made the right call there, frankly.

But Lando lived?

 

[jtb]

Nerds are going to be screaming bloody murder no matter what happens.



But Lando lived?

So Han wouldn't have outrun the death star explosion in this hypothetical. Be a martyr for the cause or something.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Wasn't he supposed to die in the Death Star explosion instead of Lando? I think Lucas made the right call there, frankly.

What do you mean "instead of Lando"?

 

[Anticitizen One]

But Lando lived?

Originally the Falcon and Lando (and Nien Numb) were going to die in the Death Star blast. Thats actually how it was filmed and hence why Han says earlier in the film "I just have a funny feeling im never gonna see her again" refering to the Falcon.

It was literally a last second decision that Lucas said "fuck it let 'um live" and refilmed the final scene to have Lando walking into the party and the Millenium falcon flying out of the death star.

 

[jtb]

What do you mean "instead of Lando"?

Han would have died. That's my point. I know Lando didn't die, but he outran a fucking exploding death star. Do I really need to explain this?

 

[The Technomancer]

I thought Ewan really came into the role over the 3 films and would really work out as time goes on. I posted this in another thread but look.

Fairly recent Ewan:

Ben vs Obi

That's legit. I guess if you have a problem with Ewan as an actor, that's different, but I don't see why you would. I think he has proven himself well enough with other films and with a good director he could be a good Ben.

Out of all of my problems with the prequels he was not one of them. I thought he was a really good Obi-Wan Kenobi actually

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Solo's character was castrated, but I don't think he ever BLUBBERED in Jedi.

He did in Solo terms.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Be a martyr for the cause or something.

I believe that was the idea - Solo would have to blow up the reactor knowing that they couldn't escape the explosion once they set it off, and he and Chewie do it anyway. Lucas decided that the happy ending had room for only one poignant moment, and that was Luke setting Vader on fire.

 

[jtb]

I believe that was the idea - Solo would have to blow up the reactor knowing that they couldn't escape the explosion once they set it off, and he and Chewie do it anyway. Lucas decided that the happy ending had room for only one poignant moment, and that was Luke setting Vader on fire.

In that case, I have no reservations in saying Lucas made the right call there. Let's leave suicide bombers out of Star Wars, plz.

 

[Tacitus_]

Han would have died. That's my point. I know Lando didn't die, but he outran a fucking exploding death star. Do I really need to explain this?

I can see your point, but him outrunning the fireball was a classic hero moment so I'm going to say it was fine.

 

[jtb]

I can see your point, but him outrunning the fireball was a classic hero moment so I'm going to say it was fine.

I don't even have a point. That's just what the nixed alternative was.