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[Gaborn]

I'd imagine it'd be pretty quick for the officer to radio in "I have a man claiming to be the owner of a house, he has Harvard issued ID with his name and photograph on it but there's nothing here regarding an address. Can I get the name of the person who lives at xxxxx?"

Eh, quicker for the prof to provide his driver's license or state ID.

 

[harSon]

Eh, quicker for the prof to provide his driver's license or state ID.

But considering this guy is a potential murderer, wouldn't it be safer for the cop to keep the suspect at the doorway and not have him sort through anywhere with a potential weapon?

 

[Core407]

But considering this guy is a potential murderer, wouldn't it be safer for the cop to keep the suspect at the doorway and not have him sort through anywhere with a potential weapon?

Potential murderer? Anyone can be a "potential murderer". The cop was following protocol and it obviously blew up in his face.

 

[Mudkips]

That police cover for their own is common knowledge, but that's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the simple fact that there are no effective and meaningful systems in place to discipline police officers or to hold police officers accountable. It's just a fact about police departments and the judiciary. So the fact that the officer did not receive any discipline for his willful violation of Gates's constitutional rights is hardly surprising to anybody who understands anything about how these institutions operate in real life.

Why would a cop receive disciplinary action for the violation of Gates' rights when all the evidence points to there being no violation to speak of?

If you are contending that a violation did occur, why hasn't Gates brought a suit forward?

There IS a system in place, and it's the fucking courts externally, and the department itself internally. Gates could bring a suit forward, but so far all he has done is complain through the media and demand apologies. The department has already stated that they support the cop's actions.

You're under the assumption that the cop violated Gates' rights. There's zero fucking evidence that that happened. Zero. You're a lawyer, right? You know what evidence is? You know what testimony is? You know if Gates brought a suit forward and it went to trial he would lose? Goo goo gaga?

It's on GATES to bring a suit forward, or, barring that, the department to review and discipline the cop. Even with the huge amount of public pressure, the department is standing by the cop. Typically, a department will stand by the cop, perform their own internal investigation, still stand by the cop regardless of what they find, and then cave to public pressure and suspend/fire the cop, regardless of what they find.

The ball is squarely in Gates' court at this time. It is not the responsibility of the police department to punish a cop when they support his actions and believe he has done nothing wrong. That's absurd.

 

[harSon]

Potential murderer? Anyone can be a "potential murderer". The cop was following protocol and it obviously blew up in his face.

I believe it's called sarcasm

 

[Gaborn]

But considering this guy is a potential murderer, wouldn't it be safer for the cop to keep the suspect at the doorway and not have him sort through anywhere with a potential weapon?

Your hyperbole just shows you realize you're arguing the weaker side. The officer's decision to follow Professor Gates was in line with standard protocol in these cases, I don't see why the professor deserves special treatment just because he was throwing a tantrum.

 

[APF]

Unfortunately, the effects of implicit racism mean that no one can be trusted around another human being, and certainly no one can ever be in a position of authority over another, for they will either implicitly act favorably towards someone of their same familial group, or act unfavorably towards someone outside of that group--even if they are struggling as hard as they can not to. It's a shame, but no one can ever be trusted with someone of their same or a different race. You are all suspect. You are all thought criminals; even if you try as hard as possible to follow the Word, you are all implicitly Sinners and must ever be repentant against your wicked ways. Amen.

 

[laserbeam]

Why would a cop receive disciplinary action for the violation of Gates' rights when all the evidence points to there being no violation to speak of?

If you are contending that a violation did occur, why hasn't Gates brought a suit forward?

There IS a system in place, and it's the fucking courts externally, and the department itself internally. Gates could bring a suit forward, but so far all he has done is complain through the media and demand apologies. The department has already stated that they support the cop's actions.

You're under the assumption that the cop violated Gates' rights. There's zero fucking evidence that that happened. Zero. You're a lawyer, right? You know what evidence is? You know what testimony is? You know if Gates brought a suit forward and it went to trial he would lose? Goo goo gaga?

It's on GATES to bring a suit forward, or, barring that, the department to review and discipline the cop. Even with the huge amount of public pressure, the department is standing by the cop. Typically, a department will stand by the cop, perform their own internal investigation, still stand by the cop regardless of what they find, and then cave to public pressure and suspend/fire the cop, regardless of what they find.

The ball is squarely in Gates' court at this time. It is not the responsibility of the police department to punish a cop when they support his actions and believe he has done nothing wrong. That's absurd.

In fact the 3 Officers involved at the Gate's residence are considering filing suit against Gates for defamation of Character since he insists they are all racist scumbags

 

[Freshmaker]

Potential murderer? Anyone can be a "potential murderer". The cop was following protocol and it obviously blew up in his face.

Kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't issue. There's some really disturbing videos of cops letting folks go off to get something from a car etc then getting shot for their troubles. So following someone into their house to verify their ID is the smarter course even if it makes some home owners etc prickly.

 

[KHarvey16]

In fact the 3 Officers involved at the Gate's residence are considering filing suit against Gates for defamation of Character since he insists they are all racist scumbags

That's fine. Just don't act like it's any sort of justification for the arrest.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

A man is spotted on the PORCH of the house and told/ordered to come down to the officer and speak with him.

False. The Police Report (a.k.a. the gospel) states that upon the arrival, the officer noticed Mr Gates through the window of the foyer. Mr Gates was apparently on the phone with the repair people to fix his door. The police officer asked Gates, presumably after he was off the phone, to identify himeself. To which Gates replied, "No, I will not."

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I don't see why the professor deserves special treatment just because he was throwing a tantrum.

Probably the same reason you think the cop deserves special treatment because he's a cop.

 

[Gaborn]

Probably the same reason you think the cop deserves special treatment because he's a cop.

I don't consider "special treatment" not screaming and accusing a person of racism for doing their job. I consider it pretty basic courtesy.

 

[theviolenthero]

Did you see what Limbaugh said about Obama? He called the President an angry black man that did something bad to white people.

:lol

It's only funny because, it'll be good for Obama if Limbaugh becomes the #1 story next.

:lol

Well it looks like Limbaugh has finally weighed in on the issue & not even 10 seconds into it he brings up Rev. Wright. Later he states that Obama is "angry at this country".:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR4pThNJORg

 

[thebigtony]

And now you're a lawyer? Seriously, that you are willing to say so much in a topic about race while knowing so precious little about the subject matter at hand speaks volumes about your motivation for posting here.

No jury would have convicted. In fact, no judge would have even let it go to trial.

I'm just going to point out you know even less, it's an infraction thus a judge would determine the punishment anything from a fine to minimal jail time. There is no jury involved or trial its a simple hearing.

 

[harSon]

Your hyperbole just shows you realize you're arguing the weaker side. The officer's decision to follow Professor Gates was in line with standard protocol in these cases, I don't see why the professor deserves special treatment just because he was throwing a tantrum.

Hyperbole? I'm simply basing my comments around your argument that the cop was justified in following him into his home because of the potential danger in letting a suspect out of your vision.

 

[Mudkips]

Hyperbole? I'm simply basing my comments around your argument that the cop was justified in following him into his home because of the potential danger in letting a suspect out of your vision.

So why did you need to insinuate certain people would think "murderer" for certain reasons?

Hyperbole. Not just that funny graph you get when you raise X to a power greater than 1.

 

[Gaborn]

So why did you need to insinuate certain people would think "murderer" for certain reasons?

Hyperbole. Not just that funny graph you get when you raise X to a power greater than 1.

Yup. Protocols like that are there for the officer's safety, and for the public's. If Gates was not who he claimed to be he could have run away, or worse, he could have returned with some sort of weapon and harmed the officer.

 

[harSon]

Yup. Protocols like that are there for the officer's safety, and for the public's. If Gates was not who he claimed to be he could have run away, or worse, he could have returned with some sort of weapon and harmed the officer.

Yet he allows him to rummage through things to get an ID?

 

[Xenon]

Your confusing self pity and self defeating behavior to reality. Yea as a black man I can climb the social and economical ladder of success and gain respect from white and black people in by community but as a BLACK MAN its harder and theres structural racist mechanism embedded in our society (even indirectly thru segregation measurement whijch have been obsolete for decades now) OUR PARENTS are more likely to be uneducated and we dont have links to high class people because this generation is the 1st or 2nd generation to climb to the top so I take offense to ur dismissal of the guys comments. ITS NOT EQUAL and SOME BLACKS stop fighting for economical power because from the time we were born ... things were unfair. thats a FACT

I never said it was. My point is that if someone thinks that they are not just a normal guy they may be inclined to react in a way that is not normal. What happened there is an example of this. Had the man not assumed he was being profiled things would have went down differently. So his belief that the cop had a problem with his skin color ended up causing him to get into an arguments with the officer and later his arrest.


The man had to deal with the consequences of his actions. Maybe he’ll think twice the next time this happens and not jump to conclusions. The person I was responding to was trying to say that he can’t be a expected to act normal because he was black. That circular logic will keep shit like this happening.

 

[Gaborn]

Yet he allows him to rummage through things to get an ID?

Under supervision? Yes, you can have a pretty good idea about what a person is doing, especially since most people don't go to a HUGE amount of trouble stashing their ID in their own home, it's usually pretty well in the open for easy access. (or at most in a drawer or something)

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

The person I was responding to was trying to say that he can’t be a expected to act normal because he was black.

*EDIT*

The last one was shot 41 times trying to produce ID.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Just when you think the race card could not be played more shamelessly, robidomask surprises you.

 

[Mudkips]

The last one was shot 41 times trying to produce ID.

Yeah, shit sucks. And cops get shot at when pulling people over for speeding tickets or out of date registration and such. Yet I'm not going to suggest that cops should cover your car in tear gas before walking up to the driver side door with their gun in one hand and a canine unit being held back by the other.

Pointing to the extreme cases as evidence to support how you think people should behave and be expected to behave just makes you look like an overreacting, fearful fool who just watched "Crash".

 

[Xenon]

images

As disgusting as those images are to see, it still doesn't change my opinion. If that is what picture every time you think of the police, nothing I can say will matter.

 

[nyong]

Bringing up that lynch mob picture should be akin to bringing up the Nazis in an argument.

 

[nyong]

Obama's Gates Comments Garner Range of Responses

Comedian Bill Cosby, no stranger to controversial comments himself, accused Obama of speaking about the Gates incident prematurely.

“I’ve heard about five different reports (about Gates’ arrest),” Cosby said Thursday on Boston’s WZLX radio. “If I’m the president of the United States, I don’t care how much pressure people want to put on it about race, I’m keeping my mouth shut … I was shocked to hear the president making this kind of statement.”

“A post-racial society doesn’t exist,” Hampton, a retired Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police officer, told the newspaper chain. “We’re still in a civil rights era. What happened to Gates happens to poor black and brown people every day.”

The Congressional Black Caucus Thursday applauded Obama and seconded his emotions on racial profiling.

“What the president said was honest, and it was right,” said CBC Chairwoman Barbara Lee, D-Calif. “There is a long sad history in this county of African-Americans and other people of color being subjected to racial profiling.”

“Now is the moment for this country to tackle this issue, as well as the many inequalities in the criminal justice system," she added. "The arrest of Dr. Gates is an unfortunate reminder that we are not yet ..... a color-blind society and must work each and every day to complete the unfinished business of ending racial discrimination in America.”

Gates has demanded an apology from Crowley. But with the backing of the F.O.P. and the Cambridge police department, Crowley has declined. In an interview Thursday with Boston’s WEEI radio, Crowley said the only thing he’s apologetic for is “I was not aware who Professor Gates was.”

Crowley said he’s upset that he’s being made out to be a racist. The Associated Press reported that Crowley was an instructor at the Lowell, Mass., Police Academy for five years and teaches courses on racial profiling and on how officers should behave.

“I am still amazed that somebody of his level of intelligence would stoop to such a level, berate me. Accuse me of being racist, of racial profiling,” Crowley said of Gates in the radio interview.

And Gates was still smarting over his treatment by Crowley. Gates, in a Daily Beast interview titled “My Daddy, the Jailbird," by his daughter, journalist Elizabeth Gates, called Crowley’s behavior towards him “unethical.” He called Crowley’s police report about the incident “pure fiction.”

“I was astonished at the audacity of the lies in the police report, and almost the whole thing from start to finish was just pure fabrication,” Gates told his daughter. “So yes, I feel violated all over again.”

He said that his treatment by Cambridge police should dispel any notion that America is in a post-racial period since Obama’s election.

“The only people who live in a post-black world are four people who live in a little white house on Pennsylvania Avenue,” Gates said, laughing. “The idea that America is post-racial because a man I admire, Barack Obama, is president of the United States is a joke. And I hope no one will even wonder about this crazy fiction again.”

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/moving_america_news/11261/1

 

[WickedAngel]

I'm not sure what is more disturbing; those pictures or the fact that you'd be willing to flaunt them on a message board in a topic that is entirely about two big egos.

 

[loosus]

Bill Cosby knows what's up. He's extremely level-headed. If he says that Obama should've gotten the facts, then Obama should've gotten the facts.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I'm not sure what is more disturbing; those pictures or the fact that you'd be willing to flaunt them on a message board in a topic that is entirely about two big egos.

The topic to which those images were a response, was why black people can't "act normal" around cops.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

The topic to which those images were a response, was why black people can't "act normal" around cops.

You should quit while you're ahead.

 

[WickedAngel]

The topic to which those images were a response, was why black people can't "act normal" around cops.

That's a great display of forward-thinking. Are you comfortable with the fact that you're a racist?

*Edit*

I wonder how you would feel about posting gratuitously violent pictures of victims of black criminals as some sort of twisted justification for discrimination/racism. Those wouldn't even require a historical context. Something tells me that you wouldn't be very casual and passive about the implications there.

 

[harSon]

That's a great display of forward-thinking. Are you comfortable with the fact that you're a racist?

Could you please shut the hell up with the "Racism" accusations, it just makes you look like a complete hypocrite and idiot. For someone who gets his panties in a bunch over pretty much every accusation of racism in existence, you sure are quick to fling them out yourself when someone disagrees with you. I personally don't agree with what he did, and consider it beyond distasteful, but this is the second time you've done it and quite honestly, it needs to stop.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

The topic to which those images were a response, was why black people can't "act normal" around cops.

Fuck, nobody told me that. Did I miss a seminar or something? Was there a memo? This whole time I've been doing the whole live and let live thing. What's our standard response protocol? Hook me up with a PM or something when you get the chance.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

That's a great display of forward-thinking. Are you comfortable with the fact that you're a racist?

If that's how you want to label me, I think i can be comfortable with that. If you want to believe that past actions won't inform present or future thoughts and actions 'll be comfortable with that as well. I expect nothing but the status quo. But you best be assured that the next time I get pulled over by the cops, the first thing I'm gonna think is, "I hope I don't get shot." It pains me to think no one else would understand why.

 

[WickedAngel]

Could you please shut the hell up with the "Racism" accusations, it just makes you look like a complete hypocrite and idiot. For someone who gets his panties in a bunch over pretty much every accusation of racism in existence, you sure are quick to fling them out yourself when someone disagrees with you. I personally don't agree with what he did, and consider it beyond distasteful, but this is the second time you've done it and quite honestly, it needs to stop.

Such a dick, Sharpton. I've seen enough of you to know that you will always be the first to parrot and play the victim card. You're no better than the charlatans who profit from exacerbating race relations.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Both sides really need to back down on this one. Just let it go and consider it a lesson learned.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Shit is getting personal in here why don't we all calm down.

 

[harSon]

Such a dick, Sharpton. I've seen enough of you to know that you will always be the first to parrot and play the victim card. You're no better than the charlatans who profit from exacerbating race relations.

Whatever makes you feel better WickedAngel. I personally won't stoop down to baseless accusations of racism, I mean, would it be fair for me to call you a blatant racist considering you're knee deep in pretty much every race related topic as well? I certainly don't think so.

 

[WickedAngel]

Whatever makes you feel better WickedAngel. I personally won't stoop down to baseless accusations of racism, I mean, would it be fair for me to call you a blatant racist considering you're knee deep in pretty much every race related topic as well? I certainly don't think so.

You won't stoop down? You've been making baseless accusations throughout this entire thread and unequivocally stating that we should all believe that this situation was entirely caused by race based on historical context.

Basically, you're a joke, your opinions don't matter, and you will always feel the bitter sting of racism because it's the first thing you look to blame everything on.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Why don't you two have a cookie?

 

[Gattsu25]

I've been casually following this story since it broke.

I admit that my view is going to be heavily swayed by my opinion of the majority of police officers...let's just say that this story just re-affirms what I already think of them.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Why don't you two have a cookie?

 

[harSon]

You won't stoop down? You've been making baseless accusations throughout this entire thread and unequivocally claiming that we should all believe that this situation was entirely caused by race based on historical context.

Basically, you're a joke, your opinions don't matter, and you will always feel the bitter sting of racism because it's the first thing you look to blame everything on.

At least there's one thing that's factual in this thread, you're completely delusional. I'll sit here and wait for you to compile a list of posts where I make "baseless accusations" that this situation was "unequivocally" racist. I'll probably be waiting all century considering there's not going to be much evidence, at the most, I said I wouldn't be surprised if race were a factor but never went as far as to say that it was.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Why don't you two have a cookie?

 

[WickedAngel]

Still banned in Alabama.

 

[harSon]

I'm waiting Limbaugh

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

http://i28.tinypic.com/ofvvwk.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
Not for you.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Still banned in Alabama.

LOL!

 

[Gaborn]

If that's how you want to label me, I think i can be comfortable with that. If you want to believe that past actions won't inform present or future thoughts and actions 'll be comfortable with that as well. I expect nothing but the status quo. But you best be assured that the next time I get pulled over by the cops, the first thing I'm gonna think is, "I hope I don't get shot." It pains me to think no one else would understand why.

See, the problem is, if you go into a situation half cocked and EXPECTING trouble you're going to view any and every action by the people involved as AGAINST you whether they are or are not. I'm not saying you have to love the police or kiss their ass or something, but you need to realize that blaming every police officer for the actions of a relatively small (but certainly real) percentage of police officers is wrong, just like it would be wrong for a store owner to be afraid that any and every young black male entering their store would rob them or "cause trouble" since that's patently false even if that's true of some people (of any race). Blaming individuals for past bad acts by other people is not useful.