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Has a movie ever done an MGS2?

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eso76 said:
Eternal Sunshine was advertised as your typical Jim carrey comedy over here.
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Every non comedy made by a comedian was advertised as a tipical comedy over here

Honorable mention goes to
220px-Man_of_The_Year_%282006_film%29.jpg
 
PhoenixPause said:
Not a form of bait? Seriously? Clearly I'm not going to convince a fanboy otherwise, but it's pretty clear to other people that Psycho fits the general idea. It's not a sequel but it was a huge release that completely pulled the rug from under audiences.

It didn't have to hide an actor - it killed off the main star.
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No, you're right, in the context that the OP meant the question Psycho absolutely fits. And so do many other films mentioned in the thread.

In my context no :( to my knowledge Psycho was not a recreation of another film. Killing off the main star, I mean...I fail to see how that even relates to MGS2 considering Snake was still a major player post-Tanker and the actual main character was a Snake proxy.
 
Sub_Level said:
Not a form of bait.
Not a heavily anticipated sequel.
Not a recreation of another film using the same actor.
Not hiding any actor pre-release.
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1- They did bait the audience. If you don't think they did, then you know nothing about Psycho or its realease.

2- Pointless.

3- Pointless again. All OP asked was whether a movie had ever deliberately misled its audience.

4- They made people believe there was an actress for the mother character, so they were in fact holding out that there wasn't.
 
Z.. said:
How has Million Dollar Baby not been mentioned yet?

http://movieposters.2038.net/p/Million-Dollar-Baby_1.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Why would it be?

I feel like some people here are mentioning ANY movie with a plot twist of any kind.
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Charles Foster Kane said:
1- They did bait the audience. If you don't think they did, then you know nothing about Psycho or its realease.

2- Pointless.

3- Pointless again. All OP asked was whether a movie had ever deliberately misled its audiences about what it was really about through trailers and preview material.

4- They made people believe there was an actress for the mother character, so they were in fact holding out that there wasn't.
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I concede that it's a form of bait but I already addressed that yes, in the context of the OP Psycho fits the bill. In the context of actually being MGS2 relative to what that game was to other games, no it's not even in the ballpark. The absence of an actress in place of a character is clever but is not the equivalent of hiding an actress entirely who would overtake the direct role of the main actress, role being key word here.
 
bengraven said:
At the time, Alien shocked people by doing this.

You had this full crew, there was no clear cut hero. In fact, many people would assume Tom Skerrit's character was the main character.

After a while it became clear that Ripley was slowly becoming the only survivor and being forced to take command at times. She eventually was not only the hero of the film, but the franchise.

It was actually shocking to people at the time, but I think it has mostly been forgotten since she's become the main character in the series.
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That's the first movie that came to my mind. From what I've read the film killed characters in reverse to how well-known they were at the time, right? Quite interesting, shame what has become of Scott's career in the last couple of years....
 
Hasn't kojima said that MGS2's bait and switch was quite obviously inspired by Terminator 2?

You expect Arnie is back as the villain, except he turns out the good guy.

There is your main character bait and switch + sequel + possible future of mankind all rolled in one.
 
Sub_Level said:
PS2 could play DVDs.

Next.

edit: In a way us posting on gaf is part of MGS2.

We are preserving unfiltered trivial junk data in the vast sea of digital information.

And by extension, that essentially means that every movie is MGS2
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Mind fucks. NOW this is a worthy MGS thread :)


Anyway, just to expand on why this is an unfair question (but an interesting one):

It's not simply the fact that Raiden was hidden, it's how Kojima used that fact to drive THE central theme of the entire game, one that relied on the interactive aspect of the medium AND needed Raiden to appear without the player having a pre-conceived identity assigned to him.

- Having Raiden become a representation of the player (name and birthday on dog tag)

- Having Raiden roam the game utterly confused and disoriented, to reflect how the player must feel after the "switch"

- Messing with the player / player urgency (already mentioned in the thread)

- "Rewinding" the events of MGS with Raiden as a "stand in", challenging the player to define his role in the game (or any game)

....and tons more shit. Too tired to list everything right now :p
 
The Dark Knight Rises did in the sense of subversion of expectations.

It failed to introduce another protagonist and set of stakes, though, which is just another reason that movie failed.
 
dmshaposv said:
Hasn't kojima said that MGS2's bait and switch was quite obviously inspired by Terminator 2?

You expect Arnie is back as the villain, except he turns out the good guy.

There is your main character bait and switch + sequel + possible future of mankind all rolled in one.
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I'd say that one works, with one caveat:

The marketing made it pretty clear that Arnold was the good guy. It really only works when you show the movie to someone who doesn't know anything about it and has only seen the first one (and yes these people exist)
 
Be Kind Rewind.

The trailers sold the movie as a comedy about two people remaking a bunch of movies in a cheap comedic way.
The movie was actually a sentimental drama about a small community attempting to save the birthplace of a jazz singer from being demolished by a big corporation.
 
Amused by all the people with Metal Gear Solid avatars claiming that nothing has or will "do an MGS2."

But yeah, Psycho was probably one of the first big film pop culture phenomenons famous for pulling a heavy bait and switch between promotional materials and the actual film. In fact, if I remember right, Hitchcock wanted posters put up in theaters reminding people leaving the movie not to tell anyone about the big switch up.
 
This is my list of requirements for being able to pull an MGS2, based on the goal that it needs to be a well kept secret and not just a bait and switch within the story:

1) Complete and total creative control of the trailer and other promotional media

MGS2 trailers were basically the entire tanker part of the game with a few bits of the latter part where Snake happens to appear.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
Amused by all the people with Metal Gear Solid avatars claiming that nothing has or will "do an MGS2."

But yeah, Psycho was probably one of the first big film pop culture phenomenons famous for pulling a heavy bait and switch between promotional materials and the actual film. In fact, if I remember right, Hitchcock wanted posters put up in theaters reminding people leaving the movie not to tell anyone about the big switch up.
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Yeah, that's really only like MGS2 in one aspect though. That's pretty cool that Hitchcock did that though. I can imagine that type of thing worked so much better before the internet.
 
Sub_Level said:
Yeah, that's really only like MGS2 in one aspect though. That's pretty cool that Hitchcock did that though. I can imagine that type of thing worked so much better before the internet.
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Which aspects does it miss? There was a long lead-up to the film featuring footage and art from the first third of the movie. There were already certain expectations at the time for what a thriller was, and what kind of movies Hitchcock made, and he effectively pulled the rug out from under the entire audience.

But yeah, you're totally right, it'd be pretty hard to pull off these days. Hitchcock was the original spoiler drama queen!
 
XANDER CAGE said:
Which aspects does it miss? There was a long lead-up to the film featuring footage and art from the first third of the movie. There were already certain expectations at the time for what a thriller was, and what kind of movies Hitchcock made, and he effectively pulled the rug out from under the entire audience.
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MGS2 wasn't just "hey here's a completely different guy from Snake who is actually the main character of the game, GOTCHA!".

It was "hey here's a completely different guy who's actually a proxy Snake in the same scenario that Snake was in during the last game to illustrate how people who played the original game were trained to expect certain stimuli and react accordingly while playing as a character who idolized the very same character you played and as a player surrogate was also trained to expect those same stimuli from VR training (which for the player was MGS and the expansion pack MGS VR Missions"

MGS2 was basically the first MGS and the entire story was a social experiment (not my words, this is taken from the script). The examples people are giving in this thread are great but they don't nail the player aspect of MGS2. And that's not to MGS2's credit because it's "deep bro" or "complex" but because it's unique and nobody has really done shit like that.

To recreate it in a movie you would have to make a Psycho 2 where it's the same film as the regular Psycho and the main character was a huge fan of the original Bates Motel incident that happened X years ago and was trained by news reports and fiction about it to expect certain things until finding herself in her own Bates Motel as part of a social experiment to illustrate that people who follow news reports and read fiction based on true events learn to expect things without context and idolize symbols and legends instead of understanding the actual people.
 
Sub_Level said:
MGS2 wasn't just "hey here's a completely different guy from Snake who is actually the main character of the game, GOTCHA!".

It was "hey here's a completely different guy who's actually a proxy Snake in the same scenario that Snake was in during the last game to illustrate how people who played the original game were trained to expect certain stimuli and react accordingly while playing as a character who idolized the very same character you played and as a player surrogate was also trained to expect those same stimuli from VR training (which for the player was MGS and the expansion pack MGS VR Missions"

MGS2 was basically the first MGS and the entire story was a social experiment (not my words, this is taken from the script). The examples people are giving in this thread are great but they don't nail the player aspect of MGS2. And that's not to MGS2's credit because it's "deep bro" or "complex" but because it's unique and nobody has really done shit like that.

To recreate it in a movie you would have to make a Psycho 2 where it's the same film as the regular Psycho and the main character was a huge fan of the original Bates Motel incident that happened X years ago and was trained by news reports and fiction about it to expect certain things until finding herself in her own Bates Motel as part of a social experiment to illustrate that people who follow news reports and read fiction based on true events learn to expect things without context and idolize symbols and legends instead of understanding the actual people.
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You're expecting way too much.
 
karasu said:
You're expecting way too much.
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It's funny because it's so simple but Terminator 2 comes extremely close because the second T-800 played the exact same role as Kyle from the original and in that sense the audience was trained to expect Arnold to be the bad guy. So it's a bait-and-switch that also injects TWO surrogates into the story playing the same roles as the original.

Solid Snake = Kyle
Liquid Snake = First T-800
Raiden = Second T-800
Solidus Snake = T-1000

Roughly speaking of course. There's no Ocelot equivalent because he was an observer and no "Solid Snake in MGS2" equivalent because he was never supposed to be a factor which is the main difference from the original game. And fiction is never talked about explicitly in T2 because that would be incredibly stupid and MGS2's style of exposition is silly but it is implied.
 
Sub_Level said:
MGS2 wasn't just "hey here's a completely different guy from Snake who is actually the main character of the game, GOTCHA!".

It was "hey here's a completely different guy who's actually a proxy Snake in the same scenario that Snake was in during the last game to illustrate how people who played the original game were trained to expect certain stimuli and react accordingly while playing as a character who idolized the very same character you played and as a player surrogate was also trained to expect those same stimuli from VR training (which for the player was MGS and the expansion pack MGS VR Missions"

MGS2 was basically the first MGS and the entire story was a social experiment (not my words, this is taken from the script). The examples people are giving in this thread are great but they don't nail the player aspect of MGS2. And that's not to MGS2's credit because it's "deep bro" or "complex" but because it's unique and nobody has really done shit like that.

To recreate it in a movie you would have to make a Psycho 2 where it's the same film as the regular Psycho and the main character was a huge fan of the original Bates Motel incident that happened X years ago and was trained by news reports and fiction about it to expect certain things until finding herself in her own Bates Motel as part of a social experiment to illustrate that people who follow news reports and read fiction based on true events learn to expect things without context and idolize symbols and legends instead of understanding the actual people.
Click to expand...

There really isn't anything that can capture the essence of MGS2 other than a video game.You're being way to specific with your requirements.

You're just going to have to accept that there really isn't anything that is that similar to it, especially on a thematic level. MGS2 was only really possible in that one format, at that time.
 
blame space said:
Nothing on this movie poster suggests to me a talking kangaroo.
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Not the poster, but the trailer, where the kangaroo starts talking and rapping...which turns out all be a hallucination. It made people think it was a family-friendly movie that could appeal to kids. It wasn't. But then they made a kid-friendly direct-to-video animated sequel called G'Day USA, where he apparently can talk.
 
Stet said:
Almost exactly. The Place Beyond the Pines billed Ryan Gosling first.
He dies less than a third of the way through the fucking movie.
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This was the first one that came to mind for me but I didn't want to mention it for fear of spoilers.
 
I remember when I first saw The Hurt Locker, months before the big Oscar push, so I saw it cold.

"Sweet, I love (Snake) Guy Pierce!"

"Who the fuck is (Raiden) Jeremy Renner?"
 
BigDes said:
Kinda recent movie superhero movie did this in spades

Iron Man 3
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2nd post nails it. I was really hyped by the trailers and previews but then...yeah. It's an okay movie (better than Iron Man 2 at least) but not nearly as impressive as the trailers made it out to be.
 
Roude Leiw said:
click

Click.jpg


and from dusk till dawn.
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Gotta agree with Click, it looked like it would be a typical stupid Adam Sandler movie, but it turned out to be its a wonderful life in a modern take with some laughs (some pretty dam good ones) thrown in. I think critics where very unfair with this movie and it deserved way more than a 33% on RT.

Also this movie for me showed that when asked, Sandler can actually act (the end when he dies is pretty dam good).
 
Eidan said:
Why would it be?

I feel like some people here are mentioning ANY movie with a plot twist of any kind.
Click to expand...

Becuase Million Dollar Baby was advertised as a movie about victory and triumph and it's a movie about loss, failure and agony.

Go check the promotional trailers, you'll see what I mean. Nobody expected that kind of movie at the time, everyone was surprised in the beginning.
 
Hot Fuzz came off as a fairly droll small-town cop comedy in the marketing.
Then came the slasher horror film kills. Then the action bang-bang shoot-em-up finale.
 
Shig said:
Hot Fuzz came off as a fairly droll small-town cop comedy in the marketing.
Then came the slasher horror film kills. Then the action bang-bang shoot-em-up finale.
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Don't forget that
the movie hints at action bang-bang shoot-em-ups throughout the movie with the fat one being a huge fan. Yeah, that's definitely 70% MGS2 at least.
 
I'd argue the trailers for The Dark Knight Rises misled peoples expectations. Loved the movie, but I think like myself, most people expected a movie about Batman but instead got one primarily about Bruce Wayne. I thought that angle was great, but I can see why folks were ? "WHERE'S BATMAN".
 
Echoenigma said:
There really isn't anything that can capture the essence of MGS2 other than a video game.You're being way to specific with your requirements.

You're just going to have to accept that there really isn't anything that is that similar to it, especially on a thematic level. MGS2 was only really possible in that one format, at that time.
Click to expand...

I disagree, there could be a movie that attempts to do what MGS2 did, however, the chances of that ever happening is slim. Also, one of the main problems is deciding whether or not to call to the audiences attention in the end that everything is deliberate.

It's one thing to bait-and-switch the audience with an anticipated sequel by swapping the main protagonist with another actor, whilst casting the expected actor in a supporting role and then to have things play out eerily similar to the first film. It's whole other thing to come out at the end and state that this was all intentional or part of some simulation. That part could be hard to incorporate into a good movie.

But again, it could be done and if it were it would be awesome. A movie that just completely fucks with your expectations, exploits the formula of whatever genre of film, and breaks the fourth wall. I could imagine the film screwing up at some point as if the actual film was being screwed up by the projector, characters asking if they "hear that music?" Referring to the movie's soundtrack, credits rolling at an obvious point in which the movie clearly has not ended. So much potential.
 
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