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Has anyone here ever been a "Runner" on film & television production?

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Asking this because I was told by a teacher that this is the most basic job to break into the industry with and maybe after studying film production at university, I should think about this job role. Anyone here care to share their experience?
 
Yup. Did it for a music talent show here.

It sucks and at times degrading but yeah... Its experience for the CV and everyone does it at the start.

Its the production equivalent of being a bus boy. Just try make some contacts out of it.
 
The hours are shitty but you might be able to make some upward movement through networking. I've only been an extra but I'd guess the next step from being a runner would be to become an AD which is full of bitter people from my experience.
 
I work for a film production company, we use runners on every shoot. They all get paid albeit little more than expenses.

A couple of them have ended up being junior producers at our company as a direct result of running for us. Others literally decided it wasn't the industry for them after witnessing it first hand. Eitherway, at the end of the shoot everyone gets drunk so it's a lovely time eitherway.

It helps if you a) can drive b) can carry heavy things and c) are attractive. If you're all three of these things, well done you ubermensch, you'll go far.
 
I assume that's the same thing as being a PA, which I've done. That said, I don't know of any way to get these jobs other than knowing people who know people.

One time while working on an indie feature, they upgraded me from a PA to the 2nd AC. Although the production was a little shady so this didn't come with any increase in pay.
 
I work for a film production company, we use runners on every shoot. They all get paid albeit little more than expenses.

A couple of them have ended up being junior producers at our company as a direct result of running for us. Others literally decided it wasn't the industry for them after witnessing it first hand. Eitherway, at the end of the shoot everyone gets drunk so it's a lovely time eitherway.

It helps if you a) can drive b) can carry heavy things and c) are attractive. If you're all three of these things, well done you ubermensch, you'll go far.

Gross.
 
We use them all the time. If you're in a city with a lot of film production going on (and not just a uni town), it's a great way to network and get in with the right circles.

This is super important because almost everyone in the industry is a freelancer. So often jobs are won and lost with personal recommendations.
 
We use them all the time. If you're in a city with a lot of film production going on (and not just a uni town), it's a great way to network and get in with the right circles.

This is super important because almost everyone in the industry is a freelancer. So often jobs are won and lost with personal recommendations.

Almost everyone we hire is a result of us working with them as a freelancer or a personal recommendation - and most people only get the freelance gig because of a personal recommendation. It's not nepotism, it's simply that the labour market is utterly flooded with huge numbers of people, most of whom aren't very good at what they do. Personal recommendations are the best way to make sure we get someone who can do the job AND we can be fairly sure won't rub people the wrong way.
 
Funny reading this thread since I (and many of many friends) have been a runner for films and it's been really really fun.
Maybe because I'm not in the US or England?
 
Almost everyone we hire is a result of us working with them as a freelancer or a personal recommendation - and most people only get the freelance gig because of a personal recommendation. It's not nepotism, it's simply that the labour market is utterly flooded with huge numbers of people, most of whom aren't very good at what they do. Personal recommendations are the best way to make sure we get someone who can do the job AND we can be fairly sure won't rub people the wrong way.

Yup, it may not look very nice when you're trying to get your shoe in the door, but in reality it's just an informal reference system. I probably don't need to tell you just how misleading reels and portfolios can be at times.
 
Funny reading this thread since I (and many of many friends) have been a runner for films and it's been really really fun.
Maybe because I'm not in the US or England?

Probably. The hierarchy from Tom Cruise to coffee boy is quite drastic in Hollywood.
 
Yup, it may not look very nice when you're trying to get your shoe in the door, but in reality it's just an informal reference system. I probably don't need to tell you just how misleading reels and portfolios can be at times.

Absolutely! This is especially the case on bigger productions, where 10 people can work on a single shot and you get ten almost identical demo reels through the door the day after the previous production gets finished.

Back to running, though, and it must vary a lot from company to company. We never get runners to use their own vehicles - we rent big vans for all the crew and the equipment, and it's those that need to be driven. If we're just moving between locations, anyone does it - I've done it plenty of times when my role on the shoot was officially "Visual Effects Superviser" (a pretty grandiose term for someone who measures the height of the camera and sticks stands with cards on it around a shot) but if my hands are free and we need to move, I'll drive! But for the longer journeys, most of the crew will be doing stuff in the van during the journey, like liaising with the others vans, prepping the costumes, recording data in a laptop etc. So the runners gotta drive!

And yeah, you will go on coffee runs and go to wherever we have lunch with the order half an hour before everyone gets there, but that's sort of the job.
 
I've interned as a runner/production assistant, and (like someone posted above) for me that was pretty much enough to turn me away from the industry. There's too much hierarchy and old fashioned chain-of-command mentality that prevents you from doing your job properly. Add to this that pretty much everyone on set assumes you were specifically hired to cater to that specific person's need. I think I'd have developed an ulcer had the production lasted longer. But keep in mind that my heart wasn't really in it in the first place; a lot of friends of mine have had great experiences with the exact same kind of work. Give it a go and find out if it's for you.
 
Absolutely! This is especially the case on bigger productions, where 10 people can work on a single shot and you get ten almost identical demo reels through the door the day after the previous production gets finished.

Back to running, though, and it must vary a lot from company to company. We never get runners to use their own vehicles - we rent big vans for all the crew and the equipment, and it's those that need to be driven. If we're just moving between locations, anyone does it - I've done it plenty of times when my role on the shoot was officially "Visual Effects Superviser" (a pretty grandiose term for someone who measures the height of the camera and sticks stands with cards on it around a shot) but if my hands are free and we need to move, I'll drive! But for the longer journeys, most of the crew will be doing stuff in the van during the journey, like liaising with the others vans, prepping the costumes, recording data in a laptop etc. So the runners gotta drive!

And yeah, you will go on coffee runs and go to wherever we have lunch with the order half an hour before everyone gets there, but that's sort of the job.

Disregard everything but the last sentence.
 
I did runner work on a feature film in London last year. I see you're from London so I'll try and make my experience a bit specific to how it was for me there.

I don't think I would've enjoyed it as much if I wasn't friends with one of the lead actors/writers, but it was definitely an experience. Your day will start by going to a greasy cafe and ordering 30 sausage or bacon rolls for the cast and crew. You will get many pissed off looks from the locals because of how the kitchen is backed up with your order. You will deliver them to set and probably get asked to load equipment on your way in. After loading equipment you'll then need to clean away all the breakfast bits and - if you're lucky that day - there will be a bacon roll left. You'll also need to check all the refreshment, if you're running low on tea/coffee/coke then you'll need to scout out the local Tesco or Sainsburys. Knowing where they are in advance is a huge help. I almost cried with happiness when I found out there was a Sainsburys in Kings Cross when production was based there for a few days.

About an hour after that, you'll be asked to scout the local area for somewhere to order lunch. Once finding somewhere appropriate [aka cheap] you take some of their menus and approach everyone in the cast and crew to get their order. On the first day this is great as you'll get to know everyones name. Once the order is in, you once again watch a small food place struggle with 30 orders for an hour. When delivering them to set, they will have almost definitely forgot to make something or changed an order. That means the blame is on you and you have to run off to get the restaurant to fix it.

Once everyone has their food and is eating, you can sit down for the first time that day and maybe chat to some of the guys in production. For me it was fine, as a couple of my friends were lead actors, but it's good to chat with the art department and make up as they're always good guys. It also means that you might get to do some meatier things for them on other days. With Art Department I had to get to Stratford for various different paints and then back before production started one day and then I spent a few hours set building and painting.

You'll sometimes be sent off set to do or collect things from places you've never heard of. Make sure you've got a battery pack for your phone, because if it dies you're up shit creek. I had to swan off to Tottenham Court to Primark to quickly buy costumes before and wander around Camden finding a lens rental shop to pick up a lens. Production didnt tell me that they were a day late picking up the lens in the first place though, so you can get tellings off from people who arnt even involved in the production. You wont be refunded for going around on the tube, but depending on the production you'll get a certain amount of transport costs refunded.

At the end of it, it's a very thankless task. People wont thank you if you're doing what you think is above the call of duty, because to them you're just doing what they expect. But if you get involved in a nice low budget project with good people, then you can have a good time. I was an extra in a few scenes, just because they have to bulk out scenes. I was given some on set training one day from the camera department and was allowed to do clapper on one day too, which was exciting. Even more exciting when you see a quick clip of you on clapper on the DVD's special features.

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The best day for me was the last. The director came to me, thanked me for my work over the past few weeks and spoke to me about what I wanted to do in the industry. Since then I've done some camera operating on some projects he's directed. The film industry is all about connections and relationships. Look like you will do anything for anyone in the production and smile.
 
I don't think I would've enjoyed it as much if I wasn't friends with one of the lead actors/writers, but it was definitely an experience. Your day will start by going to a greasy cafe and ordering 30 sausage or bacon rolls for the cast and crew. You will get many pissed off looks from the locals because of how the kitchen is backed up with your order. You will deliver them to set and probably get asked to load equipment on your way in. After loading equipment you'll then need to clean away all the breakfast bits and - if you're lucky that day - there will be a bacon roll left. You'll also need to check all the refreshment, if you're running low on tea/coffee/coke then you'll need to scout out the local Tesco or Sainsburys. Knowing where they are in advance is a huge help. I almost cried with happiness when I found out there was a Sainsburys in Kings Cross when production was based there for a few days.

About an hour after that, you'll be asked to scout the local area for somewhere to order lunch. Once finding somewhere appropriate [aka cheap] you take some of their menus and approach everyone in the cast and crew to get their order. On the first day this is great as you'll get to know everyones name. Once the order is in, you once again watch a small food place struggle with 30 orders for an hour. When delivering them to set, they will have almost definitely forgot to make something or changed an order. That means the blame is on you and you have to run off to get the restaurant to fix it.

In my experience, this part is quite rare - especially if you're shooting in London or any other populated city. Competition is so rife that you can get on-set catering for as low as ÂŁ5/head (including drop off and pick up) - which isn't much more expensive than what you'd spend at a greasy spoon (and it's much better for morale too).

Only the most micro-budget productions waste valuable runner time with waiting in a cafe while they cook dozens of orders when you could be doing plenty of other things.
 
In my experience, this part is quite rare - especially if you're shooting in London or any other populated city. Competition is so rife that you can get on-set catering for as low as ÂŁ5/head (including drop off and pick up) - which isn't much more expensive than what you'd spend at a greasy spoon (and it's much better for morale too).

Only the most micro-budget productions waste valuable runner time with waiting in a cafe while they cook dozens of orders when you could be doing plenty of other things.
Oh yeah, this was definitely micro-budget.
 
It depends on the size, too. Most caterers require a minimum head count. Our crews are rarely more than 15 people. We tend to either send over a runner or phone in our orders a half hour or so before we arrive, and we try to arrive around 2pm or so so that we miss the main lunch rush.
 
Thanks for all the replies, they're very illuminating. Doesn't sound very fun, but I don't mind it especially if it will get me a better job :)

These guys have covered most of the runner stuff, but here's my little semi-related advice:

Go for jobs on commercials if you can. Better pay, shorter shoots (1-2 days mostly) and a lot less fucking around in general. Features wreck you, and I have no idea how TV crews who do hour-long 20+ episode series manage it.
 
Oh yeah, this was definitely micro-budget.

Sounds like you had a good time though, which is great! Whenever people mention they're thinking about getting into the TV/film industry, I always recommend they seek out an experience similar to what you did. You hate it at the time, but when the shoot is wrapped, you immediately know if it's for you.

edit: holy shit, what was Kryten like in person?

It depends on the size, too. Most caterers require a minimum head count. Our crews are rarely more than 15 people. We tend to either send over a runner or phone in our orders a half hour or so before we arrive, and we try to arrive around 2pm or so so that we miss the main lunch rush.

Yeah, that is a pretty small crew, but it's not impossible. I believe we once got Cocochan to do 15 heads @ ÂŁ7ea because we were local and it was offpeak on a weekday.
 
I've been trying to get into it for nearly a year now with no success, I don't live near London so the opportunities rarely come up and when they do, whoever I apply to tend to say they've gone with someone with more experience.

From what I've gathered, it's easiest if you either know someone who's already in the industry or try and find out about student projects and the like and just volunteer because it's at least something to put on your CV.

Edit; just noticed you're coming off a film production degree so you should be alright, I'm trying it after recently graduating Computer Science.
 
I've been trying to get into it for nearly a year now with no success, I don't live near London so the opportunities rarely come up and when they do, whoever I apply to tend to say they've gone with someone with more experience.

From what I've gathered, it's easiest if you either know someone who's already in the industry or try and find out about student projects and the like and just volunteer because it's at least something to put on your CV.

Edit; just noticed you're coming off a film production degree so you should be alright, I'm trying it after recently graduating Computer Science.

Success in the industry is 90% connections, 9% skill and 1% education. Your degree doesn't mean shit to most people. EDIT: Not being cruel, I mean that in a "it won't hold you back" kind of way.
 
I've been trying to get into it for nearly a year now with no success, I don't live near London so the opportunities rarely come up and when they do, whoever I apply to tend to say they've gone with someone with more experience.

From what I've gathered, it's easiest if you either know someone who's already in the industry or try and find out about student projects and the like and just volunteer because it's at least something to put on your CV.

Edit; just noticed you're coming off a film production degree so you should be alright, I'm trying it after recently graduating Computer Science.

And you want to get into film? If you're a CS grad who is interested in Film, I may have something that's perfect for you... if you'd be interested in working in London, gimme a PM and I can give you a few more details. If you don't want to move to this Godless hellhole, don't worry!
 
And you want to get into film? If you're a CS grad who is interested in Film, I may have something that's perfect for you... if you'd be interested in working in London, gimme a PM and I can give you a few more details. If you don't want to move to this Godless hellhole, don't worry!

All about who you know!
 
tbf I'd say it's 49% who you know, 49% skill and 2% luck. Because my recommendation goes a relatively long way in our company (insomuch as I've recommended good freelancers before so they have a reason to trust my suggestions) and for this reason I'd never recommend someone I didn't think could do the job, no matter how good a friend they were or how many drinks they bought me at an event. If it's a junior role you can take a bit more of a punt, but ultimately if you don't have the skill, knowing all the right people won't help.

UNLESS you want to be a producer. That's a much more... winging-it role, where a lack of ability can really get lost amongst the melee.
 
Success in the industry is 90% connections, 9% skill and 1% education. Your degree doesn't mean shit to most people. EDIT: Not being cruel, I mean that in a "it won't hold you back" kind of way.

Literally the only benefit of a film/media degree in the industry is that you might know slightly better how to hold a camera in extremis (which is nothing a bit of practice and reading any single half decent textbook wouldn't fix), and that you're more likely to have connections as a result.

Any amount of extra curricular activity if your uni has a student TV or radio station will do much the same - I know my career is mostly due to the people I worked with doing student radio and my experience there. I met a lot of contacts there and they were really helpful in getting me my first few industry jobs, and I learned enough to be able to bullshit around rights and legal compliance until I knew what I was actually doing.

EDIT: Also, in the UK it's at least 20% "having parents or friends you can live with in London for six months+ doing jobs that don't pay enough for you to live independently." Unfortunately.
 
@OP dude, your username is too long, it does weird things to the forum if you're the OP and the last poster.
 
tbf I'd say it's 49% who you know, 49% skill and 2% luck. Because my recommendation goes a relatively long way in our company (insomuch as I've recommended good freelancers before so they have a reason to trust my suggestions) and for this reason I'd never recommend someone I didn't think could do the job, no matter how good a friend they were or how many drinks they bought me at an event. If it's a junior role you can take a bit more of a punt, but ultimately if you don't have the skill, knowing all the right people won't help.

UNLESS you want to be a producer. That's a much more... winging-it role, where a lack of ability can really get lost amongst the melee.

I can't really agree. I've seen too many people fail upward in the industry on shoddy work. It's actually super depressing.

Bolded: I think the problem is most people aren't as noble as you! I've seen so many people who advance their career through parties and alcohol!
 
I can't really agree. I've seen too many people fail upward in the industry on shoddy work. It's actually super depressing.

Maybe it's similar to how the music industry definitely works:

Jeremy Usborne: Do you think that's why we haven't got a deal yet?
Super Hans: Course it is, they're all a bunch of Marks, ain't they? Sitting behind their big marble desks, ties done up to eleven, clicking their fingers to the fucking Lighthouse Family, getting their dick sucked by a big Alsatian dog.
Jeremy Usborne: Yeah?
Super Hans: They're all perverts, mate. All in with each other. It's not who you know, it's who you blow.
 
Is a runner anything like a Production Assistant? I was a PA for American Idol. It was a pretty good experience.
 
Success in the industry is 90% connections, 9% skill and 1% education. Your degree doesn't mean shit to most people. EDIT: Not being cruel, I mean that in a "it won't hold you back" kind of way.

Those numbers vary depending on what you do in films imo. I know many actors and actresses that won't get into some auditions simply because of what school they went to despite having impressive CVs but when you are a cameraman nobody gives a fuck if you even went to school. It's also shocking how unprofessional many people that haven't gone to film school work.
 
They seem the same when I read the descriptions. Glad to hear you had a good experience :)

There were about a dozen PA's that traveled across the country with AI, in an attempt to be hired as a fulltime employee. The only person who got the job was the same person who slept with the lighting person. Yup. We all spent our own money on travel and hotels, and busted our butts to get noticed, and that's who got the job.

The experience it's self was a once in a lifetime opportunity. I was stuffed in an elevator with LL Cool J and his entourage, saw the country, witnessed Paula meltdowns, and watched many people exploited for your entertainment (including disabled people), but the risk ruined me finacially.

I should share some stories. I left the industry long ago, so I don't care if I get blackballed.
 
I recommend getting into sound. A good boom op or eng. can go far and you'll get noticed quickly. That's what I do. Never did any PA/Runner work, I did some gaff and grip a few times though.
 
As someone who's always been interested in film and directing, would this be the kind of thing you'd have to do to work your way up to that, or is it different? I figured more technical roles may be integrated a different way, though I'd also assume if you just want to make your own film and direct, you kinda just find the money and do it.
 
They treat you like shit in Los Angeles if you're a runner. And you usually dont get paid well.
If you stick around long enough and try to climb up you can, but its hard to kiss so much ass. Those have just been my observations in the freelance post-production world. The more connections you make, the more successful you'll be in film & television. But you can't get stuck at a certain level. I have friends that ran for a while, gave up, and are doing other stuff. And 1 runner friend is a supervisor now. But he is very rare.

People think runners are slaves and treat them accordingly, its disturbing to watch. I usually don't let runners put my food on plates/clean up after me. Its absurd. One place I was at, they had the runners cleaning door handles to reduce fingerprints.
 
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