• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Has anyone here worked on a commercial game that was "bad"?

I've been tasked with making games that where already quite far along in development "fun". Thats pretty much the most frustrating thing. It's already to far along so you can say, well this would have to be redesigned from scratch to work properly but the boss will just tell you that we don't have time for that. You end up trying to polish a turd by wrapping it in lots of new mechanics, metagame and flash. It's incredibly frustrating. These are iPhonegames I'm talking about but I imagine that the same situations occur no matter the size of the project.

The worst part is that making bad games is still the same amount of work as making good ones.
 
Heh, no, I worked on the GBC version of that game, I thought that one was actually a pretty damn good game. I did hear horror stories about the GBA version, though...
Did you also work on the GBC version of Chamber of Secrets? Because I want to say I love you for creating the best RPG on the GBC.
 
Well, it depends on the situation. For example, my game where the chaos was all caused by the publisher - as a "work for hire" game developer (where the publisher pays the developer to make games for them), it's imporant to maintain good relationships with publishers, because chances are at some point you're going to need to work with that publisher again. Admittedly, in this case we *wouldn't* ever willingly work with that publisher again, nor they with us. BUT, if word spreads that employees are talking about bad things that happened due to a publisher, regardless of how accurate, other publishers may decide they don't want to hire this developer with its blabber-mouth employees.

Yes I understand you completely. This is why I stated that these things need to be talked about in respectful manner and always avoid dropping names if we can in public. But we should be able to talk about our own work and work conditions. I am not working in a third world country (dodging the NDA's of course).
 
Yeah, so I heard. But he hated the game with a passion. Its probably what happen when you are a beta tester doing the same stuff all day every day.


Unpaid overtime and free pizza is not really conventional I think. At least not where I worked.

In the gaming biz it is. I think at least 98% of all devs do this. They do the unpaid overtime that is, not every dev gives you pizza for free.
 
I did six years of 'time' in the video games industry in London.

Worked on a couple of big selling games and some outright stinkers.

The biggest problem I found was this: Many people in the games industry didn't actually know what a good game was. They create a game that they hope to be as good as their favourite game. But in reality their favourite game is only actually a 5/10 game. The games they look up to are crap. .

Some of the lead designers and producers didn't grow up playing Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Doom or any other 10/10 scoring game franchise of the 80's or 90's. These people have managed to get themselves into such enviable job positions without having the real life experience required.
 
My last ambient good game was ROBOTECH: BATTLECRY, and now they're either like you said, awesome or bad.

Battlecry was fucking fantastic. I was a huge fan of the show when I was a kid.

I worked at a huge game company in NYC. I was there for a month . . . two weeks they had me doing nothing, the other two maybe working half a day at most. Doing nothing and getting paid sounds great, but it really grates on you after a bit. That was my first and last foray into working in the video game industry.
 
I've worked on some mediocre games, some well-received games, and some crap ones. A lot of the jobs I've had have hired me on well into the game's dev cycle, (sometimes after a year of productive development, sometimes after a year of what was apparently a lot of wheel spinning), so I wasn't there in preproduction or even at the start of production most of the time.

One of the well-received games was a complete nightmare to work on. The working conditions weren't terrible, but the engine and tools were unbelievably bad and the shortcuts the dev team had made (it was supposedly a realistic game, but the simulation systems were laughably inaccurate) were embarrassing. But the team powered through in content creation -- the simulated systems remained terrible -- and it got good reviews. Nearly no one outside the company even mentioned the problems our team saw with it. Go figure.

Another of the good ones was better architected, but the working conditions were terrible. We kinda knew that game had potential, but the dev process was a nightmare.

As for the bad games I've worked on, one started as a portable game, then became a console/portable game midway through, then the portable port was foisted off to an external studio while we just focused on making a great console title. But truth be told, it was a very technically unambitious title even back originally when it was for the portable console. That one, I kinda knew it wasn't going to be one of the better titles on my resume from the start, but it was a job.

One of the other bad games, I had a bad feeling about because it was a sports game with a few key design choices that seemed like terrible ideas from the outset. Also, it was a sports title trying to compete head-on with established juggernauts in that market, and it was clearly being developed on the cheap: headcount much, much lower than its competitors, licensing was subpar, feature set was conspicuously not up to par. And the design documents clearly showed some fuzzy and subpar thinking, IMO. Worst of all, the soul of the game - what we all should have been working to build - was described in emphatic but vague terms. So everyone could be fired up to make it more 'X', but 'X' was ill-defined and we never really tried to nail down "OK, how specifically are we going to produce something with the qualities of 'X'?"

But again, that was a job, and as with all jobs where I've been hired on late in the project, I figured the plan was to get this one out the door and make the next one great.

(Come to think of it, though, that one had a completely shite postmortem process, which I now realize is yet another red flag. Basically, management essentially said "yeah, that project sucked, we've fired some people, let's not look back any more." And as it turned out, we didn't end up learning anything! Shocker.)
 
Worst of all, the soul of the game - what we all should have been working to build - was described in emphatic but vague terms. So everyone could be fired up to make it more 'X', but 'X' was ill-defined and we never really tried to nail down "OK, how specifically are we going to produce something with the qualities of 'X'?"

It's amazing how prevalent this is.
 
While I didn't work on it, I worked in close proximity to Shellshock 2, and saw it through a lot of the later stages of development. I played a little and chatted to friends in QA and we could really see that things really weren't coming together particularly effectively.

So, yes. Shellshock 2. Do I win? Or, in a very real sense, do I *lose*?
 
I worked at a huge game company in NYC. I was there for a month . . . two weeks they had me doing nothing, the other two maybe working half a day at most. Doing nothing and getting paid sounds great, but it really grates on you after a bit. That was my first and last foray into working in the video game industry.

This. I worked for a huge company too (granted, I was a QA Tester, nothing amazing like lead programmer) between projects I did practically nothing but putz around on computers or play Mario Kart DS; luckily, E3 was during one of those periods so my team w/ no project just watched live streams of the conferences. Eventually, they gave us a little something to do with a build of another game that was already in cert. It was kind of nerve wracking to get paid to do nothing in a setting like that.

I only worked at that company for 6 months, I know some people who worked there for much longer, may even still work there. I enjoyed it, but at the same time it may have been the worst job I ever had. It was nice to be involved in an industry I care about, but I think I'll take my chances in the world of academia; though, it may be an even more cutthroat line of work. At least I wont' be forced to work with dudebros (though some of my students may be fratboys, litterally). I have no desire to work in the industry again, outside of perhaps journalism, but I assume an MA would make me overqualified for a lot of those positions though.
 
Unpaid overtime and free pizza is not really conventional I think. At least not where I worked.

Crunchtime QC at Ubi MTL meant a lot of overtime yes, but we were paid for it, and it alternated between free pizza and chicken. :p

Thing is, QC feedback can only improve a game so much. It's far down the development chain, and not all devs respect testers. (I worked on Speed Devils Online and Tarzan Untamed among other things, not exactly gaming hallmarks :) )
 
I've probably spent as much time playing two of those games as you did. I'm a complete Koei whore.

I once had a chance to be a translator at Koei, back when their offices were in Kanagawa (still?). After I learned what the hours were like, I'm glad I didn't get the nod.
 
There are so many examples in this thread alone of why its shitty when people call out devs as being 'lazy'. It seems almost universally untrue.

Some really interesting stories here, thanks for sharing.
 
Agreed with the Turok is OK boat.

I really don't know if it's me getting old, but there's a certain cynical side of judging games that I don't get anymore. There seems to be no "decent" games, it's either awesome or bad.

Its not just you, I hate that shit too. But the internet has completely embraced this cynical, overly negative way of judging titles as seen by the popularity of certain personalities like Jeff from Giant Bomb, aka jaded human vortex of cynical, depressing indiference.

Seems like not meeting expectations, not enjoying certain mechanics or simply failing to be the game you want gets an automatic upgrade to shitbin status nowadays.
For example, the following games have been described by some in these boards as "terrible", "pieces of shit", etc...:

Skyrim
Diablo 3
Skyward Sword
Smash Brawl

Just think about that for a while.
 
I love this game!...Play this with my kid all the time, he loves the Rancor stages, the 1 player mode is fun too...You did alright!

check's in the mail

but seriously, I always thought the Rancor mode was the most fun one in the game, precisely because it doesn't take itself too seriously. I kinda wish we did that for Jedi (score-based arenas instead of a campaign)
 
I worked on Formula 1 '98 whilst at SCEE Liverpool. The actual development was handled by Visual Sciences and for weeks the CG intro had Aqua's "Barbie Girl" as the CG intro music. That "song" has been burned into my brain. For that alone I can never forgive Visual Sciences.

Visual Sciences were hired after Bizzare Creation left the series. Needless to say, F1 '98 was complete junk in comparison to F1 and F1 '97.

Builds were received daily, sometimes a couple each day (sent via ISDN). Bugs that had been closed out weeks previously would magically reappear. Texture warping was a constant problem that Visual Sciences never seemed to get to grips with. The handling model would change from build to build. In my opinion the retail release didn't have the best handling it could have had, but it certainly didn't have the worst. Some builds were more like "ocean liner" simulators, some where "right-angle" simulators.

Visual Sciences had a habit of completely ignoring QA feedback and would dismiss bugs as "intended" or not severe enough.

At one point things got so bad, SCEE had a dedicated room for F1 '98 QA testing with either 4 or 5 (can't remember exact numbers now) people working 12 hour day shifts with another team of 4/5 doing 12 hour night shifts, 7 days a week. Literally 24/7 QA testing for at least 2 months.

Needless to say, Visual Sciences were not asked to do F1 '99.
 
I've worked on a couple really shitty/development hell projects and then some games that were complete hits when I was working full time in the industry. It's all relative. Some games you can look back on and think "wow that was embarrassing" and some you can look at and say "wow that might've not turned out that well, but it was fun to work on."

Same thing can be said about games that were commercial hits. Some you know you could've done better and took every shortcut you could just to meet deadlines. Others you know they are sellers because you did everything you could to make it right.
 
The biggest problem I found was this: Many people in the games industry didn't actually know what a good game was. They create a game that they hope to be as good as their favourite game. But in reality their favourite game is only actually a 5/10 game. The games they look up to are crap.
There's probably a bit of that, there's also a bit of "well, i'm just going to look away and assume that it'll get better once we fill in the art, the effects, the story, the content, etc...". It's far easier to pass the buck than face it head on.

Is it disheartening to see non-"gamers" (and believe me, if GAF were to judge, hardly anyone would be a gamer) work in games? Not really. Do I need my engine programmer to know how to get to Soda Lake or have Prestige a Call of Duty game? No. Would it be nice? Sure. Do I need my designers to be more on the ball with that, it'd be nice.

As for "favourite game"? Yeah, it happens, but we're all byproducts of what we were exposed to when we were kids/teens, and especially in games, we're clearly influenced by what we've spent the most time playing. And fortunately/unfortunately, that could very well be a an instance of "your aunt got you this game for christmas". But a good designer should be someone who's capable of learning both the good and the bad from everything, and move on from that. If someone is forever stuck on one game as the pinnacle of a genre, then yeah, raise the red flag.
 
Its not just you, I hate that shit too. But the internet has completely embraced this cynical, overly negative way of judging titles as seen by the popularity of certain personalities like Jeff from Giant Bomb, aka jaded human vortex of cynical, depressing indiference.

Seems like not meeting expectations, not enjoying certain mechanics or simply failing to be the game you want gets an automatic upgrade to shitbin status nowadays.
For example, the following games have been described by some in these boards as "terrible", "pieces of shit", etc...:

Skyrim
Diablo 3
Skyward Sword
Smash Brawl

Just think about that for a while.
I'm in complete agreement. People are much too harsh on games these days. Sometimes an average game can still be worth ones time.
 
There are actually times when I feel like Kinect Star Wars was nowhere near as bad as everyone says it is, but I think the words "Kinect" and "Star Wars" automatically builds in some degree of cynicism, lol.

Of course, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like it's some work of misunderstood genius, as there were definitely a bunch of problems with it as mentioned in numerous reviews. I think there was still some fun to be had though with the game, especially when comparing with other Kinect games. As with anything Kinect, it was basically "when it works...wow there's actually some cool stuff going on!" Getting the "when it works" to be consistent though, especially in a relatively fast-paced action game is obviously not easy...

There's still a part of me that would like to work on some type of Kinect action game, but without having to tie into a specific external license or story line. It'll probably never happen though, lol.
 
Rise of the Argonauts.

I took an audio post-production class and one of the assignments was doing sound for the trailer of this game. It was a nightmare and some of the people I worked with were as uncooperative as the ones you described.

I think that game's cursed.
 
I took an audio post-production class and one of the assignments was doing sound for the trailer of this game. It was a nightmare and some of the people I worked with were as uncooperative as the ones you described.

I think that game's cursed.

Yeah, that company is a general pile of dog-shit. An interesting work experience, but made me realize that making the sausage was far worse than writing about making the sausage.
 
I actually did a very late by mail QA for robotech battlecry. Everything I suggested was shot down as it was too late apparently.
Also too many escort missions. :P

Still had a lot of fun with it.
 
It hasn't been released yet, but they've been bundling it up with AMD graphic cards.
The PC version is the one you want.

I can't say anything or else I'll get canned. :3


AlphaTwo00 is pretty experienced, and knows his stuff, just check his website and twitter.

well shit, you do realize that a statement like this here could potentially harm sales in a meaningful way

just asking cause idk what terms youre in with the people you worked with
 
Really interesting stuff...Im just interested in game development in general, and always looking for more behind the scenes stuff in commercial games ...very few post mortems on commercial games
 
Was the Turok reboot really that bad? I played the demo and I guess it was generic, but bad? Of course this was long ago.
It wasn't. It's a little underrated. It's not great by any means but it's not that bad. It's worth at least one playthrough.
 
Heh, no, I worked on the GBC version of that game, I thought that one was actually a pretty damn good game. I did hear horror stories about the GBA version, though...

Just like to say that that the GBC version of The Sorcerer's Stone is one of my favorite games of all time :3

Although sometimes, the skin you're supposed to get for Snake would sometimes disappear and I wouldn't be able to proceed through the game without restarting entirely. I've done like 20 playthroughs, happened about 5 times I think.

I also loved Chamber of Secrets GBC but I only played it once (Blockbuster days hahah)
 
I wonder what it must be like, to have worked on a game isn't well received by the public and reading hate about stuff you might have been responsible for.
 
I wonder what it must be like, to have worked on a game isn't well received by the public and reading hate about stuff you might have been responsible for.
I try not to take it personally, but trust me, it's hard to not to when you get gems like these even on this forum (I had these handy from that long-ass post talking about my experience in dev before, all about Troy):

lol. It's from KOEI. How can it *not* suck?

yeah, I lost interest when I read this. now it will be crap in a way everybody can agree on.

Is this still from the Bagged Milk team behind that rubbish Wipeout clone?

Just wait on Dynasty Warriors 7.

I haven't seen any personal attacks here, but definitely have seem some "I wish all these people would just die of a slow and horrible death"
 
I try not to take it personally, but trust me, it's hard to not to when you get gems like these even on this forum (I had these handy from that long-ass post talking about my experience in dev before, all about Troy):



I haven't seen any personal attacks here, but definitely have seem some "I wish all these people would just die of a slow and horrible death"

That last one by The Take Out Bandit.
That guy is a total sack of shit.
 
I'm always curious if some development teams ever have employees who just don't even play or even LIKE games? Like are there just some IT professionals in the field who show up and do what they're supposed to on the technical side and don't give a shit if the game is any good or sells?
 
I'm always curious if some development teams ever have employees who just don't even play or even LIKE games? Like are there just some IT professionals in the field who show up and do what they're supposed to on the technical side and don't give a shit if the game is any good or sells?
As I said, it does happen, but depending on who/what they do, it may not be that big of a deal. Let's suppose you're working on a FPS, and your network programmer only plays strategy games or not at all, does it really matter? I'm sure if they like the game or the genre, it would help him, but in reality, all they need to be is a kickass programmer who can do everything the teams needs him to do.

You can dice it up even further: should a team be all fans of the type of game they're making? And, is that even possible? It definitely helps (and it shows at some studios) that being fans of the genre, the series, or even the content itself helps, but not being fans shouldn't entirely hinder the process either: as a professional, it may not be your dream to make Barbie's Horse Adventure 23, but if you're given the license to work on it, you'll make sure it's the best god damn Barbie's Horse Adventure game that the target audience will want to play.
 
I'm always curious if some development teams ever have employees who just don't even play or even LIKE games? Like are there just some IT professionals in the field who show up and do what they're supposed to on the technical side and don't give a shit if the game is any good or sells?

Pretty much all the artists and animators at the first place I worked at spent almost no time playing games.

The programmers and designers were all pretty big gamers though (except for one old as shit programmer).

The games I worked in came in on Game Rankings at:

36.5%

67.38%

53.33%

40.63%

And

82.78%

Although that last one is a painful story.

I also have my name in the credits of:

84.98%

but I didn't directly work on this title. Everything else I worked on in my career was cancelled but most of it probably would've been similarly reviewed.

I wonder what it must be like, to have worked on a game isn't well received by the public and reading hate about stuff you might have been responsible for.

It is disheartening to a degree, although for most of the projects I worked on I didn't have any creative input, so its hard for me to feel fully responsible.
 
Rise of the Argonauts. No general direction and the producer was autistic and hard to communicate with. The CFO was an impersonal cunt. Completely unapproachable and had an air of "eat my shit, plebes" Tried to engage the team on multiple levels and found a ridiculous barrier of ego. Ed, the CEO, was a blast to work with though.



Worked on that too. What an uninspired mess.

I actually interviewed to work on Rise of the Argonauts out of college, the two programmers I interviewed with scared the ever loving shit out of me (it was my first professional interview) but I learned what to expect from that interview. I actually ran into one of them a few years later when I interviewed at a place called White Moon Dreams.

And I worked briefly with a couple of ex Liquid guys earlier this year. They were cool dudes.
 
Top Bottom