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[JohnnyFootball]

We have video game looking animated movies in the mid 200's that are still 400x better looking than what we have now with tons of effects, high-image quality, great frame-rate, top animations and detailed textures.

You seem to be thinking video games can't get better without being realistic. You only think that because cinematic games got popular over the years, but that's doesn't mean what you think it does.

Im actually going to disagree with this statement.

Strongly.

If you took games like RDR2, God of War and Assassins Creed Origins/Odyssey and turned them into movies I am quite certain a healthy chunk of people would think those games are better looking and certainly more realistic than Pixar films from the era you mentioned.

Case in point: I showed my own father the discovery tour of Assassins Creed Origins on my PC and hiss jaw dropped at how real and incredible it looked. He literally felt like he was there taking a tour through ptolomic era Egypt.

I have no hesitation in saying that AC Origins in 4K/60 fps can go toe to toe with anything Pixar puts out.

 

[Jubenhimer]

"Video game" isn't a look, its something you interact and do and yes folks want realism in their games as to all the games that seem that art direction. So no, MOST do not want video games to look like "video games" as in the way they look currently. Thats like someone wanting Red Dead 2 to the way it does, but dear god please don't make it look any more life like, as if Rockstar had a magic button to make it look even more real, someone would say "wow buddy, I want it to look more ugly please, less real and more fake, yup" /s

That's not what I'm arguing. My point is that I think people do appreciate better graphics each gen. But, not to the point where they want to put down their older consoles or not play older gen games anymore. Nor will they not play anything that doesn't have high end graphics. Of course, people still like their games to look good, and if you can make them look more real and better great. But it's not a big loss if you don't either.

I think the real underlying point is that art direction and aesthetics are far more important than graphical fidelity. It's why even some realistic games from past generations, still look good on current systems.

 

[Hobbesian]

If we're going to be forced to continue to endure this terrible "open world" trend, then, HELL no. We're a long ways away from that point.

And we still have terrible AI and physics in games.

 

[sadaiyappan]

No, maybe it will be like this next gen or next next gen.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Threads like this pop up every time PS fans get scared

Spoiler

teehee

 

[Terrible_Majesty]

I use CG in motion pictures as the standard. I remember seeing Lawnmower Man and thinking, of only games looked that good. Looking back that was GameCube quality or worse.

Then Final Fantasy the spirits within was the apogee for the longest time - that is until this current generation.

The next graphical level is what we will see in Avatar 2 and what we saw with Marvel and Star Wars - CG Leia and Tarkin and Thanos etc. Once we go to Super photorealistic then we have an alternate reality

 

[Kagey K]

Yeah, they aren’t important any more. Thats why consoles are stopping dead in their tracks as we speak.

We don’t need a PS5 or a Nextbox.

Too many diminishing returns, lets just stop the arms race now.

Graphics will never get better, and this is the plateau of gaming,

 

[Jubenhimer]

Yeah, they aren’t important any more. Thats why consoles are stopping dead in their tracks as we speak.

We don’t need a PS5 or a Nextbox.

Too many diminishing returns, lets just stop the arms race now.

Graphics will never get better, and this is the plateau of gaming,

Once again, some people are misrepresenting the argument. It's not about whether hardware isn't important still, or that graphics can't improve. They obviously can, nobody's saying otherwise. What we are saying is that we've passed a threshold where everyone needs the latest graphics right away to make new games. The number and types of games that need better and better hardware is shrinking, and the costs for pushing more powerful hardware is increasing. That's what people mean by diminishing returns.

 

[Kagey K]

So

Once again, some people are misrepresenting the argument. It's not about whether hardware isn't important still, or that graphics can't improve. They obviously can, nobody's saying otherwise. What we are saying is that we've passed a threshold where everyone needs the latest graphics right away to make new games. The number and types of games that need better and better hardware is shrinking, and the costs for pushing more powerful hardware is increasing. That's what people mean by diminishing returns.

So really we don’t need new consoles until around 2025, just so we can make sure programmers got what they needed from this gen?

There is a lot of juice that hasn’t been squeezed out of this gen yet. Some companies only put out a game or 2. They are just sctraching the surface of what these “weak” machines can do.

 

[Jubenhimer]

So really we don’t need new consoles until around 2025, just so we can make sure programmers got what they needed from this gen?

Not necessarily. Even after 9th gen arrives, 8th gen consoles will still be supported for quite a while longer simply because a lot of games can still easily run on them, and not everyone will be ready to fully move on to next gen until the right time. You saw how long 7th gen consoles were supported, where they continued to get many AAA, Japanese and indie games even 3 years into 8th gen. It took until around 2016 for nearly all developers to finally move on.

It'll be the same with current gen systems, except especially so thanks to their PC-like hardware. If you thought 7th gen lasted too long, 8th gen will probably be last just as, if not even longer than that. Hell, I'm willing to bet they won't fully die until the 10th generation starts rearing its head.

 

[Airola]

We reached that moment when PS2 arrived, in my shitty-ass opinion.

 

[Kagey K]

If we are at the point of such diminishing returns, we should stop here and wait a sec.

Put the game on pause and let them figure this shit out. This is the best it gets, so next gen consoles are useless.

Spend too much on not enough return.

 

[Frizzie]

If I have read the OP correctly I think that the leap in the advancement of graphics will diminish with each future generation of console. I think the improvements will take a greater leap benath the hood so to speak. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread increases in hardware power will go more towards better and more AI on screen and destructable/changing enviroments etc.

I also understand the argument that we are happy to play older generation hardware for longer. I am currently playing the Witcher 3 on PS4 although I got a used copy of Ghostbusters The Video Game and my son (6) got Sonic All Stars Racing on PS3. This may just be down to my specific circumstances though and not a representation of the actual state of things.

Personally I just hope they do keep producing future generations of consoles.

 

[Dontero]

Well, we've definitely passed the point of diminishing returns.

The fact that many people cannot decide if they're impressed by a game's visuals until they watch a Digital Foundry breakdown is proof of this.

We are not even close to dimnishing returns. People were saying exact same stuff about PS3 to PS4 transition.
Now turn up Far Cry 5 and Far Cry 3 and you will see quickly how many people will instantly notice graphics.

Other important factor here is that graphics got very good overall and a lot of games don't need to chase anymore hyperrealism.
And i am in that camp. I'd rather play something with stylized graphics than best looking game that plays like crap.

 

[M0G]

With consoles (seeings there generally aren't graphics options) I'd be happy if they prioritised in this order:

1. 60fps
2. Resolution
3. Antialiasing
4. Improved graphics quality

This list is really just me being a snob because I fucking hate jagged lines. Before I would have put graphics towards or at the top of the list, but graphics are now at a level where looking back in a couple of decades most games will still hold up. Sure they won't be photo realistic but it's like saying Toy Story doesn't hold up after twenty years. That film was produced at a level where it wouldn't be improved upon if it did look better. Cutting edge graphics are just a luxury at this point and would only take away from necessary growth in other areas. Gaming needs to branch out with new innovations now, improved graphics can't seriously contribute massively to where gaming is going imo. Graphics just need to hit 2160@60 across the board while they focus on creating living & breathing interactions and environments.

 

[Later Alligator]

i honestly thought we already got there last gen, with the ps3 and 360.

outside of a few things that have improved (more complex environments, PBR, etc) if you take a last gen game and render it in 4k, it doesn't look that much different than current gen games

 

[thelastword]

We get such a thread or threads before every generation, "my current games still look good, the consoles are powerful enough"....Then the new consoles release and everybody is on that train, then you hear comments the likes of "I can't go back to PS4" etc...."This could not be done on last gen consoles surely"....

Let's be honest, there will never be a time when graphics will no longer evolve or improve, as long as technology keeps improving and GPU pipelines keep expanding, developers will be able to impress you continuosly ad-inifinitum.....

 

[brian0057]

I think we reached that point when Bungie and Activision tried to sell us a good looking shooter with a gunplay not even half as good as Halo: Combat Evolved.

I can take or leave shitty graphics as long as the game is fun and engaging. And from the stream of open-world collectathons, linear brown and grey shooters, and MMO style games that are coming out these days, being able to count the veins on my characters forehead isn't gonna make me drop $60 on a beautiful and stunningly boring piece of crap.

 

[MisterBrimstone]

Hardware power is completely essential, as are graphics which are becoming better every year. Hardware is showing it's limits IMO and that's the worrying part.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Hardware power is completely essential, as are graphics which are becoming better every year. Hardware is showing it's limits IMO and that's the worrying part.

I don't think hardware is showing its limits at all. The vast majority of PC games aren't taking advantage of what's currently available.

Browse through Steam. Even the most taxing games only recommend 8G of RAM and 1-2G of video memory. When I built my PC for ~$2000 back in 2012, it had 16G of RAM and a 2G video card. It was not cutting edge back then. It's pathetic that such a PC would still be able to run the vast majority of modern releases.

High-refresh monitors, high-resolution monitors, and VR definitely require more hardware power, but most PC devs aren't building their games with those setups in mind.

 

[iconmaster]

VR definitely require more hardware power

Yeah, I think it comes down to whether VR takes off (I remain skeptical that it will). Stereoscopic rendering plus higher frame rates mean a much higher demand on the hardware.

For 2D games, though, I think we're definitely in diminishing returns for graphics. Ray tracing is nice, but the difference is pretty subtle compared to screen space reflections.

Now, processor-intensive work like AI, physics and etc can continue to be noticeably improved. Perhaps those will become the industry emphasis.

 

[dirthead]

Well, we've definitely passed the point of diminishing returns.

The fact that many people cannot decide if they're impressed by a game's visuals until they watch a Digital Foundry breakdown is proof of this.

No we haven't. It's not even close. Consoles can't even hit 60fps reliably with good looking graphics, and really, my eyes have been opened to high framerate, and I'm not going back. Once you get used to playing games at 90hz+, 60hz isn't good enough anymore. 60hz starts to feel as shitty as 30hz used to.

 

[Fbh]

It's definitely entered the era of diminished returns but there's still plenty of ways to improve.
I think it's going to take a long time until we see a gen present something even comparable to the jump from 2D to 3D or the jump form SD to HD but that doesn't mean there aren't things more powerful hardware can provide, particularly when it comes to consoles.

Hopefully, next gen is less about pushing more realistic graphics and more about performance, IQ, Physics, animations, etc

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Yeah, I think it comes down to whether VR takes off (I remain skeptical that it will). Stereoscopic rendering plus higher frame rates mean a much higher demand on the hardware.

For 2D games, though, I think we're definitely in diminishing returns for graphics. Ray tracing is nice, but the difference is pretty subtle compared to screen space reflections.

Now, processor-intensive work like AI, physics and etc can continue to be noticeably improved. Perhaps those will become the industry emphasis.

Unless somebody invests a ton of money into AI middleware, I don't think we'll see improvements in those areas. That's a big part of the problem: so much money and manpower is spent on asset creation that studios tend to use middleware for physics, sound, etc.

 

[nikolino840]

Graphic can make a game 9 on reviews even if the gameplay and I.A are normal/low
Is an important point in reviews
Personally i like graphics but i don't buy a game Just for almost realistic textures

 

[anthraticus]

I'd be happy with PS3 level graphics if the games actually had some depth/complexity/challenge, ect...

Instead of the braindead shit we get marketed towards kiddies & casuals from AAA.

 

[magnumpy]

maybe next-gen should be pushed back a bit beyond 2020... like come 2025 I think many of you would be ready for a new generation. or certainly by 2030....

 

[ResilientBanana]

Simply put, no. Games look great now, but could be better and VR only amplifies the need for better hardware.

 

[Chozofication_]

It stopped being all important when 6th gen hit. But then after crt tv's went away we started chasing higher and higher hd content - but it doesn't mean game design climbed with that.

 

[Afro Republican]

I have no hesitation in saying that AC Origins in 4K/60 fps can go toe to toe with anything Pixar puts out.

You might want to look at Toy Story 2 again then because it's image quality, texture resolution and lighting ate vastly superior to what we can do with consoles, and considering the work stations used to generate that movie, this shouldn't be a surprise.

Pre-recorded Cut-scenes can look just as good though, I'll give you that.