SLB1904
Banned
What are you trying to say here ?Sure, good luck with that..
Climate change is inevitable or?
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HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part 1 OT | Endure & Survive
- Thread starter Represent.
- Start date
Climate change is inevitable or?
Spaceman292
Banned
Video games and books are different things.Sure, good luck with that..
Couldn't disagree any more. Same difference that goes from reading a good book on your own with your S tier imagination (game) vs being vocally read an altered version of the book while being provided with pre-made illustrations on every page (live-action).
TV series so far is entirely devoid of all the environmental storytelling, the vast landscapes of the beauty of nature reclaiming the planet juxtaposed to the decaying humanity, all the subtleties going on step by step while traversing from point A to point B etc. etc. I mean as far as the intimate experience TLOU is supposed to be the game is light years ahead and things are only going to get worse as the series progresses given it's going to completely lack the organic personal bonding provided by the interactive format, which plays the primary role in the entire third and best act.
Also it's just the first episode and it just taken place in the safe zone, so most of the factors you've mentioned haven't even entered the story yet. But there's been tonnes of environment storytelling already - just as much as there was in the game up to this point in the story.
Spaceman292
Banned
Not sure what he's getting at. It's hilarious to use a graph that spans 500 million years when humans are concerned with just a few decades.
killatopak
Gold Member
Finally got to watch it. Pretty satisfied with everything though I do feel the end of the prologue was better in the game than in the show.
Lots of better parts though, more specifically the set up for later parts of the story.
I do agree the whole scene around Ellie's condition was a bit rushed and lost some of that oh shit factor and the implications of that.
I also don't know how to feel about Ellie yet. It's been some time since I last played the game so I can't recall if she was that spunky at the beginning or that she gradually opened up to Joel over the course of the story. As I recall she was more comfortable with Joel around the time they met Bill.
Lots of better parts though, more specifically the set up for later parts of the story.
I do agree the whole scene around Ellie's condition was a bit rushed and lost some of that oh shit factor and the implications of that.
I also don't know how to feel about Ellie yet. It's been some time since I last played the game so I can't recall if she was that spunky at the beginning or that she gradually opened up to Joel over the course of the story. As I recall she was more comfortable with Joel around the time they met Bill.
Vick
Member
That was very obviously not the point at all?
Not even close. The whole first section with Tess on the way to Robert is entirely missing, it's where you start bonding with the character.. you get a sense of the criminal world in the QZ, of Robert pissing everyone's off, and in meantime all the documents about people trying to get inside the QZ, the spores in the building, the dying guy with broken mask worthy or not of a bullet, the air freshners from Bill, the rat diet, the dogs business, the fight clubs..
Not asking for 1:1 obviously but come on. We're almost at Tess death and so far why should we give a single shit about the character, because she's a beloved actress from other TV series?
Felt like we spent minutes with her instead of days, minutes of claustrophobic directing of close-ups and medium shots in ugly, decaying buildings. There was no breathing at all so far.
Videogames are the best medium, nothing compares to experiencing first hand events and immerse yourself into different worlds at your own pace. Nor interacting with virtual companions, sharing fights and exploration together. TV series never stood a chance, no matter how good.
Read again the post I was responding to, think about it a bit more and maybe you'll get it.
Ulysses 31
Member
What made it not Joel for you? Only saw some reviews which said Joel is now on the softer side than he was in the game but they don't really go more into detail.
Other than the PTSD he gets which seemed uncharacteristic for someone surviving that long the in apocalypse and Ellie was just a meal ticked to him at that point.
Mostly the spoiler part, but also his position with Tess. They were more 50/50 in the game (even though we didn't get much of their background together), but here Tess makes it seem like Joel is the muscle, while she is the brain. That wasn't my experience, from the original game.
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VulcanRaven
Member
The first episode was very good. I expected it to be great but not this great. Pedro Pascal seems to be perfect to play Joel.
Arun1910
Member
Comparing a linear game to an open world game... of course a linear game would look better overall.
Roufianos
Member
The fact you felt the need to reply to that is astonishing.
SkyHighTrees
Member
exactly. It's not a slight at horizon, it looks ridiculous. if it looks like 9,7, TLOU looks like 9,8, minor difference but in that top range it makes a lot
MMaRsu
Banned
Then you are wrong.
Tess was always the leader (but they are partners). Joel follows Tess through the market, Tess is the one giving orders to Joel, Tess decides how they move forward. Not Joel.
Tess interrogates Robert etc..
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Drizzlehell
Banned
Just finished watching the first episode. It was pretty great.
Haven't read the rest of this thread but I'm sure it's full of level-headed and intelligent conversation about the show.
Haven't read the rest of this thread but I'm sure it's full of level-headed and intelligent conversation about the show.
Wesleyalucard
Member
some critics said that the first episode is the weakest and the third is the best, is that true?
remember_spinal
Banned
How the fuck would we know?
Slothbeing1209
Member
Third and 7th( only 1 review mentioned) are the best. I didn't see any review said 1st episode is the weakest.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
10million in 2 days after 1 episode. That word of mouth was HUGE.
I wonder if Bruce Straley regrets leaving. He could have been swimming in money. Neil is EP and Co-Creator on a massive HBO series. Bruce could have been right there with him.
Probably would have butt heads if he was still there though. 2 alphas rarely agree.
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Slothbeing1209
Member
CRAZY! I really wanna see worldwide numbers now. That's amazing.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
kyliethicc
Member
A few reviews I read like the Hollywood Reporter say they feel episode 1 is the weakest and it gets better from 2 on. And Craig Maizin himself said he feels the show gets better episode by episode. And he was particularly happy with the positive response to episode 1 because of this.
March Climber
Member
I don’t get the whole “Joel is softer” argument. He’s literally closed off emotionally in episode 1 and the show gave people tons of hints at how jaded he was in the present day. One of the biggest hints was that he dumped that recently deceased kid’s body into the fire without hesitation because he needed the money for a trade.
Maybe they’re saying this because he hasn’t killed enough people yet? I think we will get to those brutal moments either in episode 2 or 3.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
This is how you market a show.
Vick
Member
You don't because it's absolute bullshit. The opposite is true in fact.
In the TV series Joel literally asks Tommy to roll over people during the outbreak, which would have never happened with the game Joel. In the game he calls the neighbor by name multiple times, trying to warn him, before shooting, here in the same circumstances he just smashes his neighbor head stone cold.
But this is daily routine when an awfully huge chunk of people discussing TLOU never actually played TLOU.
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dcx4610
Member
Got around to watching it tonight. Eh. I thought it was OK but I honestly don't like the acting or the story. I did think the opening was well done with Sarah and Joel but after that, the 13 years later jump was pretty boring.
The changes to the story are what bothered me. These feel like different characters and only in name only. I guess Ellie is the closest to how she is in the game but that's it. The game's story and acting were so much better than what we have here.
I think it'll be a decent show but 9/10? 10/10? I'm going 6/10. Above average but but nothing amazing. Maybe if I hadn't have played the game and was coming in fresh to the story I'd feel differently.
The changes to the story are what bothered me. These feel like different characters and only in name only. I guess Ellie is the closest to how she is in the game but that's it. The game's story and acting were so much better than what we have here.
I think it'll be a decent show but 9/10? 10/10? I'm going 6/10. Above average but but nothing amazing. Maybe if I hadn't have played the game and was coming in fresh to the story I'd feel differently.
March Climber
Member
I have a theory that these were purposeful changes because Neil never wanted to portray Joel as a hero and unfortunately he didn’t do a good enough job of making it subtle enough throughout the whole game in the original telling of it. So he is making small corrections(like the examples you’ve listed) to illustrate this better, but apparently it isn’t working anyway because people are still seeing Joel as a softer character. In the original, the only time you can even remotely question Joel’s morality and character, is when he reaches a certain area near the end of the game and makes a big choice that affects the lives of certain innocent people.
Otherwise, because you as the player are playing as Joel and you’re experiencing his growth as a character, the player comes away from all of it thinking he is a hero. As we saw in part 2, Neil clearly thought that was a mistake. Unfortunately his solution was the most baffling one though(from a storytelling standpoint), so he has a second chance here to do it better.
Maybe season 2 in this won’t be a jumbled mess of storytelling, or maybe season 2 will star the younger version of part 2’s controversial protagonist, and the season 2 cliffhanger will be what happens at the beginning of that game, leading into season 3, and that way the audience actually cares about that character this time around instead of being forced to care about an instantly-villainized protagonist.
This all hinges on Neil not being stubborn about thinking part 2’s constant whiplash of back and forth storytelling was a good thing and instead using this as an opportunity for cohesion instead.
kyliethicc
Member
Thats the whole point of exploring perspective. Us vs them shit. Hero/villian labels are purely subjective and superficial.
Of course Joel is portrayed as a morally grey yet sympathetic protag in Part I. It was our only look into that world. Ellie and the player grow to like Joel, and so with Part II, Joel's death angers Ellie and the player. Exploring why someone we like is hated by others isn't some attempt to "correct" anything from Part I. And interestingly, plenty of people finished Part I back in 2013 and already declared Joel the "bad guy." Thats again the brilliance of the story. It was debatable then and still is now. Perspective, in group out group, biases, ego, etc.
March Climber
Member
TLoU Part 1 was brilliant I agree. It even had the perfect ending. To me it’s like the original Matrix movie. The sequel was fun and had potential in it’s own way, but ultimately it was not really needed.
cormack12
Gold Member
I enjoyed it for the most part. Some parts were a little drawn out and could have been tighter. I felt it was mostly strong up until the kid wanders into the settlement and they sort him out. After that it kind of became a bit draggy with Robert, Marlene, the Tess subplot prior to meeting Joel while escaping the QZ was much simpler and less grand.
Was not a fan of feral Ellie. The rest of the performance and delivery by Bella was fine, but it already feels like Ellie is at the stage the character was in TLOU II after the 'event'.
Not sure I like the tendrils in the mouth either. I wasn't expecting that at all. Makes it feel more like an alien thing.
Was not a fan of feral Ellie. The rest of the performance and delivery by Bella was fine, but it already feels like Ellie is at the stage the character was in TLOU II after the 'event'.
Not sure I like the tendrils in the mouth either. I wasn't expecting that at all. Makes it feel more like an alien thing.
Vick
Member
Confirmed by the fact the entire game story structure was built around scrapped ideas from the first one.
Granted though, this time the revenge motivation was actually there and shared by the player (till the fucking credits in my case in fact, since the game failed me).
elcapitano
Member
Oh a marketing campaign aligning the game and the TV show. I see you Naughty Dog
I've been keeping a close eyes in the games and it looks like it's working.
All the games are toward the top and sometimes even at the top on every current best seller list I can find.
Part 2 seems to be getting as big a jump as Part 1 as well.
The January PSN Download list will be interesting
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GhostOfTsu
Banned
It's now at no 1 on PSN, selling more than FIFA, GOW and One Piece Odyssey that just came out. It's gonna big
Sort by best selling and full game
kyliethicc
Member
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
The thought of having the Seraphites on season 2...along with the island part...imagine the sniper part with abby vs Tommy.
Shit is going to be glorious.
edit: Oh shit i just thought about the rat king.
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kyliethicc
Member
yeah theres a lot of great stuff for them to adapt
however part of what makes Part 2 a better game is how it incorporates the player into the story through interactivity, and how fun it is to play. great encounter design, tension through gameplay, etc
so it will have to change for a non interactive telling of that story
Mibu no ookami
Member
Not sure how involved Straley would have been, but it is what it is. You look at David Jaffe and you can see how absolutely twisted, salty, and jaded he has become.
Had he been more of a team player and less of a volatile character, he'd be making absolute bank on the God of War reboot and subsequent TV show. Even the money he would have made on Twisted Metal would have been significant, but instead he runs a youtube channel with under 50K subscribers and answers calls from weirdos from Eastern Europe.
In a different reality, he probably is the biggest name at Sony and maybe even head of PlayStation Studios... but he's a destructive dude with a destructive personality.
Vick
Member
This is not even true for critics.. not talking about the game being literally hated by half its audience, score themselves were lower than the first, and many outlets who previously awarded the first gave their GOTY to Hades.
It was still the most awarded game ever for many reasons sure, the actual game is a masterpiece in terms of gameplay, graphics, mechanics, animations, sound design, performances, etc. but TLOU was a perfect game, a lightning in a bottle, the first 10/10 ever by many publications, something that united every gamer (outside of salty haters who never played it) and elevated the medium.
Something fishy about the entire Druckmann/Part II ordeal.. because no, TLOU Part II didn't paint Joel as the bad guy. That's nonsense, those flashbacks, his home, what Ellie writes about him in her journal. No, just no.
We have a character portrayed as a hero in fact, but only seen as an evil guy by the worst characters, both in the game and especially in real life.
Because that's the thing, once again, the worst aspect of Part II is by far its fanbase. The single worst one ever in my opinion. It's true, the game was attacked by all sorts of people and many of them were not even gamers in the first place, and this made having actual discussions about the game super hard for people like me, but still, they can be SO annoying and petty and childish, they are even worse than Sony haters.
They constantly say Joel was the real villain of TLOU, that they felt disgusted by him killing the doctor (ready to open Ellie's skull), and at the same time spend 24h a day sucking hard the dick of the same person who couldn't be any further than them:
Because this is the natural reaction of someone who GOT the game, the consequence of a real empathetic person living the TLOU experience.
The exact opposite of Abby fanbase, perfectly mirrored by their politics and behavior in real life.
Mentally ill hypocrites, just like their muscular hero.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Might be part of it, I recall some reviewer pointing out that it's stated Robert is scared of Joel but the show up to that point hasn't really shown why people should be scared of him, could also be the looks of the actor, in the PS3/4 Joel walks around with more serious/stern look IMO before he lets Ellie into his heart.
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kyliethicc
Member
instead of just leaving an emoji. im writing here to let you know im laughing at your postThis is not even true for critics.. not talking about the game being literally hated by half its audience, score themselves were lower than the first, and many outlets who previously awarded the first gave their GOTY to Hades.
It was still the most awarded game ever for many reasons sure, the actual game is a masterpiece in terms of gameplay, graphics, mechanics, animations, sound design, performances, etc. but TLOU was a perfect game, a lightning in a bottle, the first 10/10 ever by many publications, something that united every gamer (outside of salty haters who never played it) and elevated the medium.
Something fishy about the entire Druckmann/Part II ordeal.. because no, TLOU Part II didn't paint Joel as the bad guy. That's nonsense, those flashbacks, his home, what Ellie writes about him in her journal. No, just no.
We have a character portrayed as a hero in fact, but only seen as an evil guy by the worst characters, both in the game and especially in real life.
Because that's the thing, once again, the worst aspect of Part II is by far its fanbase. The single worst one ever in my opinion. It's true, the game was attacked by all sorts of people and many of them were not even gamers in the first place, and this made having actual discussions about the game super hard for people like me, but still, they can be SO annoying and petty and childish, they are even worse than Sony haters.
They constantly say Joel was the real villain of TLOU, that they felt disgusted by him killing the doctor (ready to open Ellie's skull), and at the same time spend 24h a day sucking hard the dick of the same person who couldn't be any further than them:
Because this is the natural reaction of someone who GOT the game, the consequence of a real empathetic person living the TLOU experience.
The exact opposite of Abby fanbase, perfectly mirrored by their politics and behavior in real life.
Mentally ill hypocrites, just like their muscular hero.
Vick
Member
I've been discussing the game with weirdos for almost three years at this point, wasn't expecting any different.
Just remember to breathe every now and then while fellating Druckmann/Abby.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What we've all been saying since the announcement of the remake.Oh a marketing campaign aligning the game and the TV show. I see you Naughty Dog
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Some of the criticisms people have for Neil's treatment of Joel are valid. Yes, neil didnt like how he became a hero and wanted to do a 180 with his character, but at the same time I dont think he did. In fact, he killed him off and used that rage and vengence to kick start the plot of the sequel. So he says one thing and does another.This is not even true for critics.. not talking about the game being literally hated by half its audience, score themselves were lower than the first, and many outlets who previously awarded the first gave their GOTY to Hades.
It was still the most awarded game ever for many reasons sure, the actual game is a masterpiece in terms of gameplay, graphics, mechanics, animations, sound design, performances, etc. but TLOU was a perfect game, a lightning in a bottle, the first 10/10 ever by many publications, something that united every gamer (outside of salty haters who never played it) and elevated the medium.
Something fishy about the entire Druckmann/Part II ordeal.. because no, TLOU Part II didn't paint Joel as the bad guy. That's nonsense, those flashbacks, his home, what Ellie writes about him in her journal. No, just no.
We have a character portrayed as a hero in fact, but only seen as an evil guy by the worst characters, both in the game and especially in real life.
Because that's the thing, once again, the worst aspect of Part II is by far its fanbase. The single worst one ever in my opinion. It's true, the game was attacked by all sorts of people and many of them were not even gamers in the first place, and this made having actual discussions about the game super hard for people like me, but still, they can be SO annoying and petty and childish, they are even worse than Sony haters.
They constantly say Joel was the real villain of TLOU, that they felt disgusted by him killing the doctor (ready to open Ellie's skull), and at the same time spend 24h a day sucking hard the dick of the same person who couldn't be any further than them:
Because this is the natural reaction of someone who GOT the game, the consequence of a real empathetic person living the TLOU experience.
The exact opposite of Abby fanbase, perfectly mirrored by their politics and behavior in real life.
Mentally ill hypocrites, just like their muscular hero.
People take Joel getting killed by a golf club too personally. He's Neil's character. Neil didnt choose a Mexican Neil lookalike just to spit on Joel. Joel is his baby. He did it to have everyone instantly hate Abby's crew and we all did. Sadly, some of us ended up hating Neil for it which is absolutely fucking bizarre.
Neil deserves a lot of criticism for the story. He failed to make Abby likeable. He failed to have us connect with Lev and his sister. We spend 12 hours playing as Abby and in the end, most everyone just wanted her dead. I remember the Ellie boss fight and i was like im not fucking doing this and let Ellie kill me multiple times. It wasnt until after the epilogue when Ellie goes to santa barbara did I finally say enough is enough. Lets just fucking move on. So in the Neil got what he wanted, but if you have to completely drain the player and make them dislike the other main character to get to forgiveness then is it really good writing?
I will always defend TLOU2 for its amazing combat, graphics and just the ambition to do more with the story, but I also see that its not a perfect game by any means and its not particularly a well written one either. Id say its the MGS2 of its time. A wildly ambitious but ultimately flawed game that deserves a lot more praise and an equal amount of criticism. Sadly, both the detractors and fans of the game are impossible to talk to.
March Climber
Member
Just to be clear here, my reason for disliking Part 2 is 99% due to how the story is told.
Other people’s reasoning for disliking part 2 is due to Abby, the people with her, and certain political/social ideologies.
We are not the same.
Forcing the player to empathize over time with someone who becomes an instant villain at the beginning simply doesn’t work from a narrative standpoint, especially when that character doesn’t have good enough charisma or narrative motivations beyond that intro scene to even remotely attempt to help you connect with them. And also because by the time you even remotely start to understand them, the story jumps you back into a character who hates them.
The Naruto-style constant flashback whiplash, mixed with constant character switching whiplash, and the Naruto-style ending of the game, all don’t work either. Some people call it a masterpiece, but if this were a shonen anime it would be seen as kind of lame but business as usual for a shonen anime(which isn’t necessarily a good thing as shonen anime all have bad parts of storytelling that anime fans have simply become used to and don’t ever question).
I will always be part of the camp who wanted this to be a 3 part series.
Part 1 with Joel and Ellie
Part 2 as Abby only, going on an adventure to hunt down her father’s killer
Part 3 as dual campaigns of the aftermath of part 2
If it had happened like this, they could have let you think that Joel and Ellie’s story is done when part 2 started. That way they have you grow along with Abby in part 2, give her more of a personality, let you empathize with her, and then, just like part 1, you see a twist happen near the end where it’s revealed to the viewer who killed her father and you as the player are torn about what she’s attempting to do.
Then part 3 would have dual selectable campaigns of the two protagonists, so that you can see how the story plays out for each and have time to empathize further with each character. You might even root for Abby to find her peace as much as you are rooting for Ellie to do the same, even though their versions of finding peace are completely at odds.
Interfectum
Member
I don't understand this critique that Neil or Naughty Dog hated Joel as a character and decided to fuck him up for 2. After beating TLoU2 I liked him more than ever. The flashbacks throughout the game really fleshed out his character and that ending flashback scene was fantastic and heartbreaking.
Interfectum
Member
It totally is the MGS2 of its time and that's okay. We'll see if Neil pulls of an MGS3 with the third one.