-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
HDR has to be the most confusing graphical technology ever.
- Thread starter Chao
- Start date
um...so Forza Horizon and Gears 4 aren't really improved with the main benefits of HDR?....I swear I saw posts on GAF that they looked much better. :/
Albert Penello is confusing me again.
SprachBrooks
Member
Is HDR kind of like the camera difference between the iPhone and Samsung phones: it's all down to preference on whether or not you want your picture to look more natural or more saturated?
Rbk_3
Member
My KS8000 is nothing like that. The colours are pretty much the same, it's subtle lighting difference.
Is everything the same settings wise between HDR and non HDR? Like same colour space etc
I have a very negative reaction to hearing HDR, just because I come from a photographic background where *most* HDR implementations are terrible.
The problem at the moment is that there is no way to properly show it on non-HDR displays, and even those with HDR displays may not have their settings correct, and thus get that placebo effect where they think it looks better, but it actually doesn't. Especially those with brand-spanking new OLEDs where SDR looks terrific on those to begin with if you're coming from a traditional LCD or plasma. Throw 4K on top of that, and the wow factor increases.
My impression of HDR is that things rarely look blown-out, dark shadow detail is nicely defined, and colors are vibrant but not unrealistic. Basically, like looking through an open window on real life. Then again, games are rarely that, so I think there are going to be a lot of different interpretations and implementation of HDR depending on the developer. Which is actually quite fine, as long as the end result is pleasant to the eye.
With as many 4K TVs that I expect will move this holiday season and into next year, the focus will be more on quality 4K content than HDR implementation and display, even though I myself care a great deal about HDR.
The problem at the moment is that there is no way to properly show it on non-HDR displays, and even those with HDR displays may not have their settings correct, and thus get that placebo effect where they think it looks better, but it actually doesn't. Especially those with brand-spanking new OLEDs where SDR looks terrific on those to begin with if you're coming from a traditional LCD or plasma. Throw 4K on top of that, and the wow factor increases.
My impression of HDR is that things rarely look blown-out, dark shadow detail is nicely defined, and colors are vibrant but not unrealistic. Basically, like looking through an open window on real life. Then again, games are rarely that, so I think there are going to be a lot of different interpretations and implementation of HDR depending on the developer. Which is actually quite fine, as long as the end result is pleasant to the eye.
With as many 4K TVs that I expect will move this holiday season and into next year, the focus will be more on quality 4K content than HDR implementation and display, even though I myself care a great deal about HDR.
Sanctuary
Member
No, this isn't what HDR is.
nikos
Member
Everything should've been exactly the same, but I'll double check tonight.
Indeed. It just creates more confusion. Even in stores they create confusion with their "demo's" usually.
Doesn't help that even in store the Demos they use look like this to describe it.
If you couldn't tell, this is wrong and not helpful at all btw.
And of course they show them everywhere including non HDR TV's. You have to ask someone who knows what they are doing to have them play an HDR sample side by side on similar quality TV's one with and one with our HDR.
That's the problem with a lot of display demos. They show you the way things "used to look like", and how they look now with "x" technology. Knowing goddamn well nothing ever looked anything like the "used to look like" example.
They make the before pic look so unbelievably terrible, that it's impossible to gauge what type of improvements there are, if any.
shouamabane
Member
Yeah, I'm waiting a few years for this stuff to get standardized.
Poimandres
Member
I have a Sony X800. Gonna go pick up a HDMI 2 cable today so I can become one of the perplexed HDR users here.
I did download some short 4K HDR demo's and played via USB, and the colours were outrageous.
I did download some short 4K HDR demo's and played via USB, and the colours were outrageous.
HDR10 is an open standard which incorporates both WCG (bigger colour spectrum) and HDR (balance of light/shadow). However, it is possible to separate the two technologies and have one without the other.
Currently, Xbox one S only supports HDR for games. So it will benefit the games in terms of image clarity where there's a bright light/overexposure. However, I would argue that there should not be any improvements in terms of colour since WCG is not supported.
But how does HDR exactly allows WCG to be fully utilised? It is possible to separate the two using devices such as HDFURY linker and you can enjoy the full benefits of WCG without the HDR data.
BigEmil
Junior Member
XB1S does not support WCG? So that it means it doesn't support HDR10?
Just for games. It fully supports WCG+HDR for medias such as UHD blu ray.
Your SDR is over saturated because your tv settings aren't configured to constrict output to the standard and its capable of dramatically exceeding it, where as the tv isn't capable of even reaching the new higher HDR10 standard (no consumer tv can), never mind exceed it, so they look much more as intended.
This is going to be the answer for 90% of people who say HDR games look less saturated.
bananafactory
Banned
I think we need an HDR OT for both ps4/xb1 users where all issues related to it including calibration and stuff can be discussed
A lot of the discussion is splintered among various threads for ps4 pro, Xbox one s, and the HDR patches for individual games
A lot of the discussion is splintered among various threads for ps4 pro, Xbox one s, and the HDR patches for individual games
ClayKavalier
Banned
You couldn't tell a difference when you saw it? Or you decided without seeing it that it's nothing?
It's up to you whether it's worth getting a new TV for, I don't see how anyone could not see the difference with and without it though.
Ditto!!!
Everyone was drooling over gears 4 HDR. While I do find it impressive........no game has yet to hit the level of omg color and brightness wise as movies have. What's worse is that we have to rely on developers putting in good tools and implementations of it to even be good.
Better still, a photo taken on a potato of an TV that's not calibrated, being viewed on a phone/tablet/microwave/monitor which are also not calibrated.
How about the regular PS4, after its HDR update?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
There is a standard that's emerged, there's a good overview in this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1276662
Marty Chinn
Member
There's a consortium that created the UHD Premium spec. Now the problem is not all manufacturers are currently getting certified to that spec even if their set meets the requirements. It's the closest thing right now that we have to a standard.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Well i was meaning in games. Only DE so far. However HDR video is stunning. Games graphics is different though.
problem is that with a lot of Samsung tv's, you have to change several settings to get proper HDR picture. It is not the problem with PS4 or developers, but the fact that you have to change few options when you are using HDR content.
Now that we finally have HDR content, i assume that for new TVs they will streamline the process, so when you get HDR content, it also changes these settings that you are manually changing now.
Officially it supports WCG + HDR.
Not sure if games actually do support WCG, though. Maybe others can chime in on that.
potatohead
Member
HDR is only confusing for people who enjoy resisting trying to understand things.
Robot Pants
Member
For me virtually every game except Infamous and First Light has looked pretty much the same between HDR on and off.
Deus ex, uncharted 4, and the last of us all look basically the same aside from a wider color gamut and HDR pops out a little more.
With infamous the clarity difference was pretty dramatic as a ton more detail and color information was allowed to shine through. Sometimes changing the time of the day dramatically or even the neon lights.
HDR is great but it's up to how it's implemented for it to make the major difference. And right now the spectrum of tvs that can do HDR is so wide with not all of them fully being HDR compatible and its resulting in a ton of differences from user to user.
Deus ex, uncharted 4, and the last of us all look basically the same aside from a wider color gamut and HDR pops out a little more.
With infamous the clarity difference was pretty dramatic as a ton more detail and color information was allowed to shine through. Sometimes changing the time of the day dramatically or even the neon lights.
HDR is great but it's up to how it's implemented for it to make the major difference. And right now the spectrum of tvs that can do HDR is so wide with not all of them fully being HDR compatible and its resulting in a ton of differences from user to user.
Robot Pants
Member
Wait what? Xbox one S doesn't support WCG for games? Will the PS4 Pro?
for the price of what? PS4 got HDR update free of charge and thats what you are seeing here.
Aztechnology
Member
That's just not the case. People can understand it in principle but actually what the experience is like, how it appears, how to configure for it, how it's supposed to look is something entirely different and poor marketing only obfuscates it even more.
^ well put.
storybook77
Member
No, it's not. It makes a very real and noticeable difference in the content you are viewing.
My first woah moment was The Revenant UHD on my JS9000.
dgrdsv
Member
Three points:
A. What we have now is a very early implementations of the HDR specs. This results in configuration issues and features being incomplete or just missing.
B. HDR we're talking about is not a graphical technology, it's a display technology. As such it's wildly different between different TV sets, and while this difference will probably become smaller in the future it will still be there, always. Thus anyone saying anything on HDR should always provide his TV model for people to understand what was used to get these impressions.
C. HDR increases the possible values range. This results in higher contrast ratio (mostly brighter whites as black levels are limited by panel technology even on LDR screens) and wider colors choice. What a game do with this is totally up to the game however, so it's completely possible that one game will become more vivid in HDR mode while another will become muted instead. This is an artistic choice, not something which the tech itself impose. You just have wider ranges of brightness and colors on HDR TVs, how you use them is up to you.
tiebreaker
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the benefit of HDR is the wider spectrum of color that can be displayed, which means if used properly,images should look more natural on HDR display than on coventional display.
If your going to take pictures of a tv to compare HDR, then PLEASE at least lock the settings of the camera and *under expose* so the expanded range can actually be appreciated.
Taking a picture with a camera set to automatic with automatic exposure will just tonemap the image back down to SDR range, thus completely negating the percieved benefit of HDR range.
Taking a picture with a camera set to automatic with automatic exposure will just tonemap the image back down to SDR range, thus completely negating the percieved benefit of HDR range.
JustenP88
I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
I bought the Samsung whatever8000 (the one we had a long thread about) a few weeks ago and I still don't fully understand what HDR does. I tried out Infamous the other day after the HDR patch came out because everyone was dropping hot loads in the thread about it aaaaand... I still don't understand.
To be fair, I've put minimal effort into figuring it out aside from a quick check through picture settings. I feel like I was told this was gonna be some sort of revolutionary "You've got to see it to believe it" thing and it just isn't resonating with me. When I flip on HDR+ in my picture settings I can see stuff change, but the main thing that stands out is how much fucking brighter the picture becomes.
To be fair, I've put minimal effort into figuring it out aside from a quick check through picture settings. I feel like I was told this was gonna be some sort of revolutionary "You've got to see it to believe it" thing and it just isn't resonating with me. When I flip on HDR+ in my picture settings I can see stuff change, but the main thing that stands out is how much fucking brighter the picture becomes.
Hawk269
Member
I don't see how HDR is confusing. It is pretty simplistic. What can come across as confusing is individual sets ability to handle HDR. HDR will come down to like any other TV feature that some sets will do better than others. Like Motion handling, every manufacturer has a different implementation some are better than others. HDR will and is the same, some sets will do it better than others. Right now, based on reviews the best HDR set is the 65/75" Sony ZD9 line of sets.
thisisamul
Neo Member
HDR+ isn't the right setting - I'm almost certain that this a pseudo HDR for SDR content - so it's not REAL HDR.
I have the 2015 version of your TV. There is an option called UHD HDMI Color that you have to enable on the appropriate port (HDMI1, 2, etc.) and when you launch an HDR game and enable HDR you should get real HDR. Give that a shot and let me know what you think
JoeyJungle
Banned
I don't understand why my newish Gsync monitor doesn't have HDR but Half-Life 2: Lost Coast does. Wth is HDR anyway?
thisisamul
Neo Member
I thought that should be automated. On my Samsung JS8500 backlight gets automatically maxed. I think if you set color space to "auto" - it should get set appropriately once the TV detects HDR metadata.
Quote
Member
Hm, i'll give that a shot. Color Space is the last thing I change on my KS8500, so maybe it does automatically fix other things when I turn it on. I still wish I didn't have to do even that.
thisisamul
Neo Member
Yup, give it a shot (and make sure you have the latest firmware). I actually leave my color space on Native (even though it over saturates SDR content). I just happen to like it better
Actually, there is if you want to calibrate for HDR right now with current TVs. There's currently no cheap consumer option either for HDR calibration unless you include R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns that's not really a publicly known thing.
http://rmadvancedcaldisc.com/UHD_Project/RM_UHD_HDR10 Instruction Manual.pdf
Edit: Whole different test patterns you need separate from Rec. 709 for Rec. 2020.
http://www.chromapure.co.uk/details.asp?id=421&type=products
its a samsung "problem"... i would guess because there was low amount HDR content when set came out... in the future, they will likely let us set HDR specific setting instead of having to change current one all the time.
LurkFish17
Member
Haven't had a chance to try hdr on my ps4 yet. I'm curious how it works on ps4, I thought you needed hdmi 2.0 on the console to have hdr