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MonorailCat
Member
Already picked 2 Stormforge Axes before and had no endgame minions.
Without a way to heal I think 2 Axes + 2 Hammers would be too much.
If I had 1 or 2 Healing Minions I would have picked the second Hammer I think.
Fuck you. That is every time I play against a Hunter now.
Minsc
Gold Member
It will be nice when they start making cards that make your opponent randomly discard cards from their hand. Like a 2 mana 2/1 guy that makes your opponent discard a random card when he dies (so it'd be the opposite of that 2/1 deathrattle draw a card guy). Putting it in deathrattle seems a little more fair, because you get a slight chance to react if it's played against you.
That card is honestly the only way Hunters are competitive. Really interested to see what the nerf to it will be.
I cannot remember the last time I lost to Unleash the Hounds. What decks are you guys running that they give you so much trouble with? Hard control is a trap in the current meta, so I hope not that. Even if it didn't roll over to unleash, it still dies to the immense amount of aggro decks on the scene. Honestly, just having Defender of Argus alone in your deck is almost backbreaking unto itself against Hunters.
I think Blizzard is specifically shying away from anything that denies your opponents ability to "do something cool." They're ok with you being able to destroy something they play after they play it, but they're not fine with you preemptively removing stuff from their hand, destroying or tying up their resources so that they can't play it, and, in general, using techniques that someone somewhere has complained about in casual Magic at some point. I seriously doubt we will see any kind of hymn effect in HS unless they dramatically change their approach and acknowledge doing so.
I think Blizzard is specifically shying away from anything that denies your opponents ability to "do something cool." They're ok with you being able to destroy something they play after they play it, but they're not fine with you preemptively removing stuff from their hand, destroying or tying up their resources so that they can't play it, and, in general, using techniques that someone somewhere has complained about in casual Magic at some point. I seriously doubt we will see any kind of hymn effect in HS unless they dramatically change their approach and acknowledge doing so.
Mages exist so...
Yeah, and I was actually thinking about that as I typed the post. It is kind of funny that all of the "unfun" mechanics left in the game got lumped into that one class- counterspell, spellbender, and freezing. It's almost like Blizzard wanted us to hate them.
HappyHunting
Neo Member
If they want to keep their current set up where secrets are ours means to deal with certain situations as they happen (with obvious set up). I can only assume a more robost secret selection per class should fill the role where people feel like they are powerless.
For example a 6 mana neutral secret. When oppononet plays a spell you take it in hand and can play it for free next turn. I know it's complete nonsense to have that, but I hope you know where I am going with this. If they can come up with well balanced secrets, there can be a ton more diversity.
Yeah, Blizzard isn't going to implement any hand denial or resource denial unless they drastically change their design goals. They probably won't even implement milling, and that's substantially further down the list of things players find annoying.
Also, forcing your opponent to discard a random card may seem equivalent to drawing a card yourself, but most of the time the discard effect is actually stronger.
Based on experience with other TCGs, none of the abilities Mages have are anywhere near as annoying to the average player as hand denial is.
I don't really consider mages to be annoying, but their identity is basically built around nullifying the possibility for anything to happen, and to quickly stomp out anything that does between freezes, board clear, and polymorph.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I use a strategy of keeping only 1-2 minions up vs mage. When one dies, I drop another etc. Then around turn 5-7 I start playing minions who would survive AOE. Divine shield, 5-6 hp minions etc. I just play versus them kinda slow which tends to get me into their pyroblast spam range but often brings them into my spam damage to death range. Generally, my matches vs mage end up skin of the teeth close. Often I win by a round or lose by a round. But when I successfully force them to use spells (single target) on my minions, I usually win.
After going 0-2 with my shitty paladin draft, I thought about retiring it. Glad I didn't as I won 5 games straight so far. I don't even know how I win, I mostly draw crap and didn't see my good cards as of yet (where is my aldor peace keeper? 
). Only 2x Truesilver Champion did I have regularly. ^^
). Only 2x Truesilver Champion did I have regularly. ^^MonorailCat
Member
Two back-to.back Shaman Arena Runs:
Without Weapons and Elementals: 1-3
With Weapons and Elementals: 8-1
Starting to see a pattern there
To be fair: Both drafts were polar opposites. In one every pick was outstanding, in the other one every pick was pest or cholera. Would be happy with more average drafts and less extremes.
Without Weapons and Elementals: 1-3
With Weapons and Elementals: 8-1
Starting to see a pattern there
To be fair: Both drafts were polar opposites. In one every pick was outstanding, in the other one every pick was pest or cholera. Would be happy with more average drafts and less extremes.
Two back-to.back Shaman Arena Runs:
Without Weapons and Elementals: 1-3
With Weapons and Elementals: 8-1
Starting to see a pattern there
Yes, weapons are soooooooooooooooooo strong due to their cost effectiveness.
It's amazing how my 2 Truesilver Champs win me so many games (by keeping me ahead in board control). Especially in arena weapons are straight op.
from 0-2 to 7-2 atm x).
edit: 8-2 lol
It's true. I've pretty much never been beaten by Hunters without them abusing the unholy fuck out of Unleash the Hounds. So I can't blame them for doing the only thing they can to be competitive, but I can blame them for gravitating towards the easy-mode class where they are almost guaranteed a win by playing exactly the same way every time.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Finally after 3-4 bust arena runs (3 wins, with a single 4 win), I finally got the chance to pick a class I am familiar with - druid.
Doing a 5-0 run so far. Already beat a priest, mage, druid, paladin, and warlock.
Doing a 5-0 run so far. Already beat a priest, mage, druid, paladin, and warlock.
michaelius
Banned
If some of Hearthstone whinners played against Greyjoy mill or Lannister kneel in AGoT the meltdown would be amazing
If some of Hearthstone whinners played against Greyjoy mill or Lannister kneel in AGoT the meltdown would be amazing
If they played Vintage or Legacy magic at all, the reactions would be gold.
Angelus Errare
Banned
This has happened to me twice...lol. Poor guys.
Warrior had 23 HP to my 2 HP. Mind control hat or whatever grabbed his buffed minion as you can see and I won. None of my secret cards popped up ever nor did any of my 1-3 mana costing cards...so yea it was rough. The amount of times he spammed that threaten emote before I took control of his minion made this victory all the better.
Then it happened again
Ridiculously long match, he had a weird deck. It was basically a shitload of charge cards. I baited out his polymorph earlier which felt awesome.
How different is it to unranked? I moved on to the next medal, but I mean other than competition being better still seems that arena is your best bet on getting anything without forking over money. Because as I said earlier 10g per 3 wins is just ridiculous. I mean it should be like 25-50g per 3/5 wins because most people will simply use that money and jump into arena since arena gives you better items even if you suck.
Warrior had 23 HP to my 2 HP. Mind control hat or whatever grabbed his buffed minion as you can see and I won. None of my secret cards popped up ever nor did any of my 1-3 mana costing cards...so yea it was rough. The amount of times he spammed that threaten emote before I took control of his minion made this victory all the better.
Then it happened again
Ridiculously long match, he had a weird deck. It was basically a shitload of charge cards. I baited out his polymorph earlier which felt awesome.
How different is it to unranked? I moved on to the next medal, but I mean other than competition being better still seems that arena is your best bet on getting anything without forking over money. Because as I said earlier 10g per 3 wins is just ridiculous. I mean it should be like 25-50g per 3/5 wins because most people will simply use that money and jump into arena since arena gives you better items even if you suck.
MonorailCat
Member
Hah, just had a fun finish.
Played Malygos, Faceless Manipulator next turn for the second Malygos.
Then cast Arcane Missiles: 13 Missiles for 1 Mana =)
Played Malygos, Faceless Manipulator next turn for the second Malygos.
Then cast Arcane Missiles: 13 Missiles for 1 Mana =)
Stuggernaut
Grandma's Chippy
Agreed, that card needs to be nerfed to hell and back ...
If you get the right combo you can just destroy anything in one hand. Got some luck in it though. But when I play a Hunter geared to that kind of hand, I win 8/10 hands easy.
I've lost games because I had uncontrollable card draw that continued after I ran out of cards. Every time you pull a card after you run out, it starts at 1 damage to you and increases by 1 every time. I once got up to 8 before I died. The opponent still had something like 10 cards left, but he kept topdecking taunts and I couldn't do anything. It was ludicrous.
shadowstar
Member
It seems so few tournament decks are priest decks, yet so much complaining here about them. Maybe it's because I play it so much, but I never have issues vs priest no matter what class I'm playing. It's pretty easy to know what they're going to do and what to avoid using to force their hand.
Hunter complaints about UtH I agree with. There is zero thought involved with that deck and nothing you can do to stop it unless you know for a fact you're facing one and make a deck specifically just to beat it.
Hunter complaints about UtH I agree with. There is zero thought involved with that deck and nothing you can do to stop it unless you know for a fact you're facing one and make a deck specifically just to beat it.
Priests can leave you stranded with cards in hand unable to play them because they'll just get MC'd immediately. It's hugely obnoxious. The game already penalizes you for playing high-CC drops. Doesn't need even more disincentive.
shadowstar
Member
That would only happen if you play a stacked late game deck. I build all of my decks with lots of 4 attack minions that way if I face a priest, I can force his hand. In general you always try to force big CC out of any class before you drop your big guns. You don't want your Ysera MC'd, but you also don't want it sheeped, hexed, executed, etc. 4 attack drops are often awesome too like drakes and yeti so its not like it hurts your deck much.
In Arena you sometimes don't have a choice.
shadowstar
Member
In arena you may not get an MC as a priest. I swear I have the worst luck with that card when drafting as a priest.
The complaints are mainly for arena. And, yeah, we all use smaller minions (though as mentioned that's not always a choice in arena). But, still, it sucks having big creatures and not being able to play them. It's basically anti-fun. which you'd think was against Blizzard's design philosophy, but here we are.
Edit: I still wish Blizzard would make MC a rare so that the chance of running into it in arena would be much smaller.
Lucky you, most of my opponents make my knife jugglers public enemy #1.
I love using them with the coin on turn 1 and then divine shielding them with the 2/2 pally guy. Really strong start to a match.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I remember drafting Ysera for a druid once and played a mage, baited two polymorphs but he had a third =/
So far my biggest disappointment in this game is the lack of incentive to keep playing aside from arena. I love discussing the game but unless you are doing a quest or an arena run or both then most people don't even bother playing. I rarely have 1 friend on more than an hour a day.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I had one Priest run with 3 MCs that was really bad. My last run was a Priest that had 3 Holy Novas though! No MCs and I went 3-3.
Feel like it's too risky to be worth picking again if the other options are decent. Especially since Priests are more slow burn and their removal is flummoxed by 4 attack creatures. Priests are more slow burn and unless you get great cards, the style doesn't really gel well in the arena meta.
Only if we're doing Cube or triple Innistrad. But you gotta get with the times man. MWS? Cockatrice is where it's at.
And yeah, I'm at the point where I believe arena needs to be straight up booster drafting. The whole "three picks you care about" is nice is theory, but the tradeoffs made to get that just aren't worth it. If they need to go back to the old picking from prepicked packs instead of having everyone do the draft at once to maintain the ability to drop in and out of an arena draft, that's fine; it would still be better than the current model, which has all of the rng of booster cracking without any of the other elements of drafting that actually balanced that rng out.
Yeah, I still think the cost increase is the wrong move. In fact, I would actually decrease the cost to 7 to compensate for making it silenceable, which is the other change that should be made aside from swapping it with Holy Fire in rarity.
Nobody I ever played with has brought up cockatrice so i just never switched over
i dont ever want to make my own cube - way too many cards and interactions. I prefer to draft the most recent set because then most people will be inexperienced in it and it tests the powers of valuation and fast adaption more
on the point of booster draft in hearthstone - i think it goes against the design intent of arena of being easy to pick up and put down. I think all that arena needs is a little broadening of the field - pick from 5 cards, drafting 35/40 cards and making a 30 card deck. This still satisifies arena being 'pick up and play' and I cant even imagine a world where you'd say no to this because it makes it too complex - so i have no idea why blizzard doesnt just do it
Sounds needlessly complex to me. At most some kind of mulligan or pass system you could use two or three times would suffice to balance out potentially poor construction draws.
8-2 currently. Here's the deck.
Really, no clue why I even win. It's incredible random without many strong cards. I did play some nifty combos with Crazy alchemist tho. Also, nat pagle redeemed himself and brought me pluuuus in a few matches.
edit: aaaaand 9-2 ^_^. Mage surrendered on turn 6.
-1 Pack
-200g
-Golden Siphon Soul (rare)
-Golden Holy Fire (common)
Nice, now I don't need to craft a Siphon Soul for testing purposes. I also want to have all my spells golden. I dislike golden minions tho.
Edit: I'm at 405g now and played 3 arena already. All that for 150g lol.
I disenchanted Holy Fire and have now enough Dust for...:
<3 TREMBLE IN FEAR!
its not needless though
it makes synergy drafting more secure (extra cards to draft from) opening up more drafting strategies
it allows you to feel out a draft strategy before you commit (drafting beyond 30)
it lowers bad luck streaks (extra cards to draft from means less dead picks)
for these reasons i think 5 card draft + 35 cards drafted promotes more skill.
it makes synergy drafting more secure (extra cards to draft from) opening up more drafting strategies
it allows you to feel out a draft strategy before you commit (drafting beyond 30)
it lowers bad luck streaks (extra cards to draft from means less dead picks)
for these reasons i think 5 card draft + 35 cards drafted promotes more skill.
Part of the fun of arena is having to use cards you might not think are optimal or be extremely familiar with. If the game doesn't push people into a corner to do that they often won't. Drafting around your deck creates unnecessary confusion, adds numerous UI elements that would need to be implemented for deck management, and detaches the player from the constructed deck by adding unwanted and unused cards.
Minsc
Gold Member
I'm interested in seeing how SolForge drafts will be, because they will be able to be split in to sessions exactly like hearthstone, where you can stop and start as you please and play games 1 a day, but they will be simulating a real booster draft. You see a pack of cards, pick one and then the AIs take turns at picking from other packs and pass those to you, so you then get picks from packs with cards already taken. Obviously it won't be the same as real people doing it, but it won't have the time commitment of 2-3 hours in a row either.
And the real highlight is with SolForge's draft, they say you keep all the cards you pick for your draft, unlike this where you just get a random booster at the end. Just imagine if you could keep all your picks in Hearthstone after a draft!
yeah it has that going for it, but its strategically quite flat
if deck management ui is a complexity concern, which i can see why it could be, i wouldnt mind reaching a concession that drafting 35 cards isnt absolutely necessary. but i'd also argue that picking from 5 cards will still push people into corners, just less worse ones + allows you to synergy draft
RumblingRosco
Member
The first match of episode #33 from TotalBiscuit is amazing. Seriously, watch it, it's only about 10 minutes long.
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