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Hearthstone Closed Beta - Open beta in NA, elsewhere next few days. New thread soon!
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It's differentiated in ranked ("rank" based match making) and unranked (combined "level" of all your classes based match making). That's why ranked is actually easier than unranked.
I have more of a problem with Mages to be honest, but I agree about both shadow hands
You're not the only one..
I just skimmed through the offical forums, and mage QQ is tremendous. I bet they'll be altered at some point (for a good reason).
They're easy to fix as well:
Fireball: Minion only
Blizzard: removed / replaced with something else or nerfed to 1 damage.
You're not the only one..
I just skimmed through the offical forums, and mage QQ is tremendous. I bet they'll be altered at some point (for a good reason).
They're easy to fix as well:
Fireball: Minion only
Blizzard: removed / replaced with something else or nerfed to 1 damage.
my problem is the fact that everything is unblockable... If you can manage to build a substainable deck around 2 pyroblast and 1 fireball, that's 26 100% confirmed damage in 3 turns. Pick 27 other card and hope for some decent draws, "well played"
meh, I really don't know how they could fix it... I don't want instant cards in HS though
I feel you bro. That's exactly what I think as well: They have no counter play. You can't stop the nukes and you can't play around their 293049234892948 AoE removals / stalls. You simply can't play "smart" against them as they don't CBA about board control. I ranted more than enough about it on the previous thread sites tho. x)
With my suggestions that should be resolved tho. Anyway, it's up to the slow-ass Hearthstone team to fix that (and other cards). The patch hit today, seeing how small it was and how long it took, I fear that the game succumb to staleness sooner than later. They need to man up (literally; as in "amount") or do something about it. I wonder if they try to get the open beta out and then turn to balance / updates or if they're just slow due one reason or another.
Did you alt tab out and then back in? That's a known issue. I've had the exact same thing happen before.
(ง ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)ง ᴛʜɪs ɪs ᴏᴜʀ ᴛᴏwɴ sᴄʀᴜʙ (ง ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)ง (ง ̀_́
ง ʏᴇᴀʜ ʙᴇᴀᴛ ɪᴛ! (ง ̀_́งMobius and pet octopus
Member
I can't wait for the android app to come. Just got me a galaxy s4 and I can't wait to play it on there.
Those are the least of the problems with mage. The biggest problem is their efficient stall tactics and board control. Cone of Cold, Frost Nova, Flamestrike, Blizzard are CRRRRRRAZY good and no other class has anything like it. Paladin's Consecrate does 2 damage and costs 4 mana, Priest's Holy Nova is 5 mana and the heal effect doesn't hold a torch to the freeze effect of Blizzard, Warrior's Whirlwind is a joke, Druid has Swipe and Starfall (which are the perfect controls that don't need to be touched), Warlock's 2 mass removals 1 costs 4 manage and do 3 damage to all minions on the field or 2 sacrifice a minion with decent attack in order to do the damage, Hunter has Explosive trap and that is about it, I forget shaman's mass removal aside from chain lighting but I am pretty sure overload is attached to all of his stronger spells. Rogue has tons of single target removal and can send a bunch of minions back into someone's hand. Hence their weak mass removal.
The only thing that comes to mind that is even close to Mage's board control would be priest using the A. Soulpriest with Circle of healing which damages your own minions and it costs 2 cards.
In short Mage needs the nerf bat pretty hard. Honestly I would prefer if they just outright banned blizzard/flamestrike and reimbursed Mages with dust to pick a new rare or a new promo card to compensate. I didn't even mention arcane blast but that is for another day. There is no need for a class to have not 1 but 2 'Raigeki's' that aren't restricted. It is just plain silly. They already have plently of great single target removal on top of that.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
But holy nova also hits the opponent hero. Same with consecrate. I think you're underrating them.
Starfall is in a similar position to the above, although weaker on its aoe front since you have the choice to deal 5 damage to one card adding it its versatility. The 5 damage is probably considered a weaker affect than starfire since starfire has a card draw attached, even though it is 1 cost more. Claw is good because it can target the enemy hero for 4 damage and hit all minions still. That card scales great with spell damage imo. Probably rivals rogue's blade flurry under the right circumstances.
Rogue actually doesn't have weak mass removal. They have potentially the best removal card called blade flurry, which combos amazing with other cards. The best thing about it is that it deals damage to all enemies, the same as consecrate and holy nova. Also, betrayal and fan of knives is decent cause of the card draw. But between blade flurry and fan of knives I choose blade flurry.
Warriors are designed to be weak in AOE department I think. Whirlwind is more about activating your own minion's on hit abilities than dealing damage I think. Brawl is helpful in some scenarios, especially forcing a stall.
I'm not certain if flamestrike is OP or not. I lean towards it not being OP. Blizzard is very strong though. But OP? Again I am not certain. I've been on both sides of the fence and I feel like it could be.
You're not helpless versus mages really. You just gotta keep even pressure on them, removal on whatever they use, and be prepared to respoond to board clears or blizzards/frost novas.
My main gripe about mage is just pyroblast. Seems to me to be something that should at least cost their entire turn to cast and something that cannot be used til later, so I kinda think it should be 10 cost. Otherwise they have 10 damage on demand late game, out of 1 card. There are no counters to spells, except counter spell of course the mage gets that. I think the real biggie is that it all comes from one card. I suppose a rogue could use sinister strike 2x, eviscerate 2x dealing 14 damage for 6 cost. But that does require 4 cards at least.
I built the Artosis deck by crafting the cards I needed. The only one I wasn't able to come up with was the pirate legendary. What would be a good 5 or 6-mana substitute? I have been using Spiteful Smith, but I haven't had a chance to actually play him and use the enrage effect. Also thought of Nightblade and maybe the Venture Co. Mercenary, since if I'm topdecking late game, I usually have more mana than I need.
Gorehowl certainly has won me its share of games. Don't regret popping the dust to make it.
And by the way.. fuck Hunter players. Stall with Secrets, removal and some hero powers until 8 mana, you win! Such skill! It's gotten to the point that I start spamming threatens on every turn if I'm against a Hunter because I just fucking know what's coming. And they do too. Fucking stupid design to make it such a predictable and easy win.
My MtG-wired brain should have thought this way too, but for some reason I assumed it wouldn't work. Hearthstone does not hold the same sanctity for the owner of cards in play that Magic does. Heck, you can even bounce creature "tokens" and they are given a mana cost in your hand to be replayed.
call_kotaku
Member
had an absolute disaster of an arena run (2-3), was salty as fuck, and check the pack I got. A card glowed purple and I got excited, but it turns out it was a hungry crab.
Fuck my life
Fuck my life
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Nice symbol usage there Haly.
Opened a golden Geddon last night, DEed into Ysera, she immediately sealed two wins for me. Felt good man.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Blade Flurry costs 2 mana, but the thing about it is Assassin's blade costs 5 mana for a 3/4 weapon. So that means 7 mana total for it to be effective as a 3 dmg aoe spell. Deadly poison costs 1 mana which boosts your attack by +2, in constructed you can only have 2. So even if you equip a normal blade dagger that requires 2 mana for weapon equip, and 2 deadly poisons, and a blade flurry to inflict 5 aoe damage.
I'm sorry but there's too many variables to consider that blade flurry is a good aoe dmg spell. I'm not even accounting acidic oozes.
This is why many high level rogues just carry multiple small dmg cards.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
My current deck uses blood poison, perditions blade, spiteful smith, and blade flurry.
I don't bother with assassin's blade personally. I feel like assassin's blade costs too much and is too vulnerable to ooze.
I use spiteful smith instead. Very decent card with good stats. 4/6 with enrage weapon +2dmg. I love this card btw. I especially love to use it when I have 2-3 other minions on the field, because at that point players usually use AOEs. Which then gives me the opportunity to combo blade flurry of my own. If I have blood poison... even more so. Also it doesn't hurt to have an elven archer target him to trigger it if necessary.
Using multiple small damage cards is simply not the same. You're much more likely to get card screwed. But my deck still utilizes cards like SI7 agent and eviscerate towards that end. Even backstab. But mainly just for regular removal capabilities, not as board clears. Perditions blade is also great for that end.
The reason why I see blade flurry as so good is because it combos well with other cards to become much better. Not really assassin's blade since you need to attack 3 times before using blade flurry to get all you can out of the card.
I would not mind having a captain greenskin for my deck.
Did you finish your arena run yet? What's the results?
9-1. Lost the second-to-last match to a Shaman with way too much direct damage.
Venture Co. Mercenary/Sunwalker/Boulderfist Ogre with 3+ Blood Imps on the field is enough to make anyone quit.
witchedwiz
Member
my heartstone key..
where art thou?
where art thou?
Olliewilldie
Neo Member
I got one yesterday! Huzzah.
Never played a TCG before so going well so far.......
Never played a TCG before so going well so far.......
Minsc
Gold Member
It's not that big a deal if you have healing cards, you should put 2-3 in each deck at a minimum. Druid's get a 3-mana 8-life heal, there's a handful of creatures that heal 2-5 health on summon, and you can bounce them if needed with those 3/2 guys.
Like good removal vs creatures, healing is cheaper than direct damage, I wonder if a lot of people ignore it though. Imagine if you had three healing cards, for a +20 life gain against their 3 unblockables... then their cards aren't looking so great, you still have 24 life.
Minsc
Gold Member
I disagree, unless you're being owned and would die anyway, a healing card should buy you at least 2 more turns or be able to trade for another card and heal you in the process. I just beat a pyroblast/fireball mage right now actually thanks in part to healing and armor (which is like healing). Ended with 5 life, would have been below 0 if not for healing/armor.
It was quite a surprise when he played it on me in the finals but the leper gnome death rattle finished him off so I never had to deal with it.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Ugh I suck in Arena so much. Le siiiiiigh, I swear the RNG gods hate me on the card draw..
Minsc
Gold Member
I did have a healing card in my starting hand though, and that was part of the reason I didn't lose. He hit me early on to 27 with that 3 damage freezing thing, and I played the 3/3 shaman guy that heals for 3 back up to 30 on my fourth turn (he spent his first few moves trying to get + spell damage out, and I kept using spells to kill them, eventually he got a mana wyrm I couldn't kill right away so he starting using spells on me to buff the wyrm).
I'm talking about having a couple healing cards in your whole deck though, of course if you get every one in your starting hand it would suck, the same it would usually suck if you got every high cost card in your starting hand or a bunch of 1 cost cards with nothing else and your opponent had a cheap AoE that kills them all in one swoop.
Flamestrike fucking sucks against aggro Warlock, which I assume is still one of the dominating decks. It's too slow to stop a strong starting hand, you can't play anything else and warlocks will simply regain board control in just one turn
RumblingRosco
Member
I had one of my best starting few turns ever recently as a Mage in arena.
Turn 1
Opponent goes first, doesn't play anything.
I play Mana Wyrm, Coin, Mirror Image. I now have a 3/3 Mana Wyrm and two 0/2 taunts.
Turn 2
Opponent plays Stonetusk Boar, attacks one of my Mirror Images for 1 damage.
I Fireblast his Boar, killing it, and attack him with my Mana Wyrm for 3.
Turn 3
He plays a 3/2 (I think Faerie Dragon).
I play an Abusive Sergeant to give my damaged Mirror Image +2 attack and then use it to kill the Faerie Dragon. I attack him with my Mana Wyrm.
Turn 4
He plays a a Sen'jin Shieldmasta.
I Fireball his Shieldmasta, killing it and buffing my Mana Wyrm to a 4/3. I attack him directly with the Mana Wyrm and Abusive Sergeant.
Turn 5
He plays some 5-mana creature, I forget what.
I Polymorph his 5-mana creature, buffing my Mana Wyrm to a 5/3. I attack him directly with the Mana Wyrm and Abusive Sergeant.
At this point, I've used half of my Mirror Image, a Fireball, my Coin, and a Polymorph and he has lost 2 creatures and is only left with a 1/1 Sheep and 11 health, while I have an 0/2 Taunt, a 5/3 Mana Wyrm, and a 2/1 Abusive Sergeant and 30 health. I ended up winning the game I believe without taking any damage. I felt horrible for the guy and felt like a supreme douche mage.
Coin needs to not be counted as a spell or as a played card (to eliminate its use with Combo cards). I don't care what Blizzard says about being a roughly 50/50 win rate between whoever goes first, it's just an annoying thing that a free card not only gives you free mana but also can make your other cards (Ringleader, Mana Wyrm, etc) all that much better early on.
Turn 1
Opponent goes first, doesn't play anything.
I play Mana Wyrm, Coin, Mirror Image. I now have a 3/3 Mana Wyrm and two 0/2 taunts.
Turn 2
Opponent plays Stonetusk Boar, attacks one of my Mirror Images for 1 damage.
I Fireblast his Boar, killing it, and attack him with my Mana Wyrm for 3.
Turn 3
He plays a 3/2 (I think Faerie Dragon).
I play an Abusive Sergeant to give my damaged Mirror Image +2 attack and then use it to kill the Faerie Dragon. I attack him with my Mana Wyrm.
Turn 4
He plays a a Sen'jin Shieldmasta.
I Fireball his Shieldmasta, killing it and buffing my Mana Wyrm to a 4/3. I attack him directly with the Mana Wyrm and Abusive Sergeant.
Turn 5
He plays some 5-mana creature, I forget what.
I Polymorph his 5-mana creature, buffing my Mana Wyrm to a 5/3. I attack him directly with the Mana Wyrm and Abusive Sergeant.
At this point, I've used half of my Mirror Image, a Fireball, my Coin, and a Polymorph and he has lost 2 creatures and is only left with a 1/1 Sheep and 11 health, while I have an 0/2 Taunt, a 5/3 Mana Wyrm, and a 2/1 Abusive Sergeant and 30 health. I ended up winning the game I believe without taking any damage. I felt horrible for the guy and felt like a supreme douche mage.
Coin needs to not be counted as a spell or as a played card (to eliminate its use with Combo cards). I don't care what Blizzard says about being a roughly 50/50 win rate between whoever goes first, it's just an annoying thing that a free card not only gives you free mana but also can make your other cards (Ringleader, Mana Wyrm, etc) all that much better early on.
You have to take a LOT into account to beat a competent mage. Even putting that aside it still has mage at an advantage to most decks except one specific deck?
As far as Rouge's go, I know they have mass removal cards but I always felt stronger rouge decks usually had combo synergy and strong single target removal. Mage has both strong single target removal/delay AND mass removal. All this and they don't have to sacrifice another card to use it. There is no reason for a mage to not carry 2 copies of both copies of each card. People complained about MC for priest (rightfully so I might add) but I find it puzzling Blizzard has been rather mum about going back and reanalyzing mage cards.
As far as druid spells go I never said they were bad. In fact I propped them up on a pedestal. To me those are the perfect mass removal cards in terms of balance. Good to get you out of a pinch but gives your opponent enough to come back.
Minsc: Healing is underrated. If I was on top of my healing game when we fought I may have beaten you.
NameGenerated
Who paid you to grab Dr. Pavel?
I hate when I realize I had lethal the second after I make all my moves. Then he won the next turn. 
Sea Giant distracted me.
Sea Giant distracted me.MonorailCat
Member
I hate when I realize I had lethal the second after I make all my moves. Then he won the next turn.
Even worse is when you forget to attack one time in the early game and then calm yourself with "ah, who cares .. it's just 2 damage" and in the end you lose. Opponent has 2HP left. Le sad times.
Minsc
Gold Member
Yup, swipe in particular is nuts if you have even just a single + spell damage out, 5 targeted damage and 2 to everything else including the other player. Two or more + spell damage guys and it's a better version of flamestrike for 1/2 the cost, definitely a contender for best mass removal.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Just got a Nat Pagle. Worth keeping, or should I DE him for a second Pyroblast (or similar)?
Seems kinda iffy - he's one of the worse legendaries.
Seems kinda iffy - he's one of the worse legendaries.
He's a good card to make your opponents waste their removals, but it's a real gamble.
Considering the size of the Heartstone team and their speed to update the game, I'm not so sure if we'll even have that many cards in one year.
RumblingRosco
Member
I agree with this. Now, if Hearthstone takes off and Blizzard is raking in the money from it, well, then I could see the team size increasing and more resources going towards more expansions/more rapidly, but otherwise, I'd be happy to see one expansion a year with 60-80 cards.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I'd rather see two smaller expansions than one large one a year. Keeps the meta-game fresher that way.
Minimum amount of cards per expansion should be ~40 though which averages out to a couple for each class and a smattering of neutrals.
Minimum amount of cards per expansion should be ~40 though which averages out to a couple for each class and a smattering of neutrals.
I think mages are a natural counter to rush, which is why they are more powerful now when the rush game is the name.
If I had to peg a couple of changes, I'd say reduce Pyroblast to 8 damage, and change blizzard so that it only freezes some minions (about 50 percent chance) instead of the full 100.
But I also believe that when people find more viable large creature decks that mages will seem less powerful. That's Blizzard's fault. DD is harder to make work if your minions have some beef to them.
If I had to peg a couple of changes, I'd say reduce Pyroblast to 8 damage, and change blizzard so that it only freezes some minions (about 50 percent chance) instead of the full 100.
But I also believe that when people find more viable large creature decks that mages will seem less powerful. That's Blizzard's fault. DD is harder to make work if your minions have some beef to them.
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