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[StMeph]

I think the bigger issue is that many of the changes are being undertaken because the opponent has no chance to respond, or feels that way to many at lower levels. Which wouldn't have been an issue if players could take meaningful actions on their opponent's turns, but with the game as designed, the only way anything would be interactive is to force them to stay on the board longer to force interactions.

It also makes Secrets a really weird spot. Because even if you know exactly what it is, sometimes you have no choice but to trigger it, and there aren't many answers to them.

 

[DragonSworne]

Blood Imp got nerfed too hard.

They only needed to change it to "+1 health to adjacent minions".

I think the bigger issue is that many of the changes are being undertaken because the opponent has no chance to respond, or feels that way to many at lower levels. Which wouldn't have been an issue if players could take meaningful actions on their opponent's turns, but with the game as designed, the only way anything would be interactive is to force them to stay on the board longer to force interactions.

It also makes Secrets a really weird spot. Because even if you know exactly what it is, sometimes you have no choice but to trigger it, and there aren't many answers to them.

There needs to be an expert card that cancels a secret.

 

[Kenaras]

So, I'm confused.

I ran two Warrior decks, an insane all weapon / all charge deck and a enrage / warsong commander / one giant deck with whirlwinds and leeroy for fun. And Grommash.

So if I drop a raging worgen and a warsong commander, the Worgen attacks and kills a 2/3 lets say....He's now 4/1 and can attack again.

Or can he? Does he then lose Charge?

Or if I drop warsong commander and Raging and then Inner Rage him, does he then get Charge and lose it as soon as Inner Raged?

If he keeps it, I'm actually okay with the change.

The wording indicates that your minion would keep Charge even if its Attack was later increased. Of course, there's no guarantee that the actual gameplay will match the wording, so we won't know for sure until the patch is released.

I'm interested to see how the interaction works with Bloodsail Raider - that combo used to be popular with Arcanite Reaper or Gorehowl. Her ability is a Battlecry, which means she will briefly be a 2/3 before getting buffed; the question is whether Warsong Commander will trigger and grant her Charge before she gets buffed by the Battlecry.

 

[slayn]

I think the bigger issue is that many of the changes are being undertaken because the opponent has no chance to respond, or feels that way to many at lower levels. Which wouldn't have been an issue if players could take meaningful actions on their opponent's turns, but with the game as designed, the only way anything would be interactive is to force them to stay on the board longer to force interactions.

It also makes Secrets a really weird spot. Because even if you know exactly what it is, sometimes you have no choice but to trigger it, and there aren't many answers to them.

I enjoy instants/interrupts/counters/etc in more complex games like magic but I don't think they have any real place in hearthstone. Then you have to introduce timers and player priority and all that nonsense and it all just gums everything up in an online CCG. I would look to Hex if that's what you want.

I do, however, think it would be interesting to have cards that you play on your turn that do something on your opponent's turn (like secrets) but that aren't necessarily secrets. This could be worked into the text of creatures though. As a random example, imagine a 0/3 creature with the text (your opponent can not play spells while this minion is in play. At the start of your turn destroy this minion).

 

[pringles]

Yes!! I play only hunter in constructed and Unleash the Hounds is my favorite card at 4 cost. Now at 2 it's going to be twice as useful. Combined with starving Buzzard and Mark Of The Hunter it's usually a board-clear with a multiple card draw.

Would like more changes/nerfs to Mages but pyroblast is at least slightly less powerful.

 

[Technosteve]

I ve spent 50 bucks and all i got was a nerfed legendary

 

[Mr Cola]

Yes!! I play only hunter in constructed and Unleash the Hounds is my favorite card at 4 cost. Now at 2 it's going to be twice as useful. Combined with starving Buzzard and Mark Of The Hunter it's usually a board-clear with a multiple card draw.

Would like more changes/nerfs to Mages but pyroblast is at least slightly less powerful.

While im glad it got touched I still think Hunter is not in a great place sadly, though I dont know how to really solve that, the cards are mostly underwhelming.

 

[StMeph]

There needs to be an expert card that cancels a secret.

Hunters have Flare, but that's the only one I can think of.

I enjoy instants/interrupts/counters/etc in more complex games like magic but I don't think they have any real place in hearthstone. Then you have to introduce timers and player priority and all that nonsense and it all just gums everything up in an online CCG. I would look to Hex if that's what you want.

I do, however, think it would be interesting to have cards that you play on your turn that do something on your opponent's turn (like secrets) but that aren't necessarily secrets. This could be worked into the text of creatures though. As a random example, imagine a 0/3 creature with the text (your opponent can not play spells while this minion is in play. At the start of your turn destroy this minion).

I have actually backed HEX.

I also don't mean that Hearthstone should introduce those mechanics. It's clear that they wanted the game to be streamlined, and avoiding interrupts/instants is the simplest way to achieve that, especially online.

But it's still a design-level issue if they don't like the existence of Combo as an archetype. Because it's almost always an OTK, breaking up all Combo decks that arise removes more depth from an already shallow(er) game.

 

[inky]

Because as soon as you play Novice Engineer you've traded 1 for 1, by drawing a card. Being able to 2:1 off a 2 mana card that 100% nets you a card when played is pretty OP. There's no reason for it to be 1/2 + draw at 2 mana. Azure Drake probably is too strong given the card draw as well.

In general card draw put on a creature is one of the strongest things in the game imo.

That's OK, but you are trading for a 1 mana card over 2 turns, and that is also if turn 2 they don't buff AS and your opponent trades for free first. Novice can't trade with 2 mana drops, as it gets killed for free as well, so I thought it was fair.

I agree that card draw is super strong, but I thought Novice was quite balanced, and in fact worked quite well at keeping AS in check, another popular card that is kinda too good.

 

[dejan]

Got my beta invite in November, but somehow I only started playing this three days ago. Unlocked the common basic cards, did my daily quests and dabbled with my custom mage set in casual mode. I'm currently sitting on 420 gold and the question is what to do next. I haven't spend any money yet, but I'm not opposed to the idea either.

Casual mode was ... quite the experience for a new player like myself, but after reading up on the game and understanding how casual mode works, I switched to ranked today and I fared far better. But my biggest bane so far has been my fucking connection to the Blizzard servers. I experienced two disconnects right before I was about to strike my finishing blow. As you might have guessed, that can be quite frustrating, especially since casual mode has been rough on me already. Still though, I'd lie if I said I"m not having a good time with the game overall. I will certainly continue to do my dailies, but what about arena? I would guess, it's still to early for me, because I don't have a good enough grasp of most of the cards in game and I've only played my mage set against human players to boot even during my free arena run (went 1:3 kaboom). Maybe I should level my other heroes to level 10+ in practice mode to unlock the remaining basic class specific cards first?

 

[commish]

Why is the OP worthless?

Can we keep it up to date?

Someone probably will once the game is released.

 

[Minsc]

That's OK, but you are trading for a 1 mana card over 2 turns, and that is also if turn 2 they don't buff AS and your opponent trades for free first. Novice can't trade with 2 mana drops, as it gets killed for free as well, so I thought it was fair.

I agree that card draw is super strong, but I thought Novice was quite balanced, and in fact worked quite well at keeping AS in check, another popular card that is kinda too good.

You're forgetting though, it kept AS in check and got you a card as well. Doing both is too much for a 2 drop draw card creature imo.

I ve spent 50 bucks and all i got was a nerfed legendary

But if your legendary gets nerfed you get a free ticket for any legendary you want in the game!

 

[Won]

Argent Squire is probably next on the "wtf this is in every deck, let's do something about!" list anyway.

 

[kirblar]

Argent Squire is probably next on the "wtf this is in every deck, let's do something about!" list anyway.

Its a neutral one drop worth playing? Nerf it! Is such a weird reaction.

 

[commish]

Argent Squire is probably next on the "wtf this is in every deck, let's do something about!" list anyway.

Already indirectly nerfed with the DID nerf.

 

[Vodh]

Argent Squire is probably next on the "wtf this is in every deck, let's do something about!" list anyway.

Actually, the Dark Iron Dwarf is also an indirect nerf to the Squire, I think once we see the decline in the usage of the dwarfs the squire is the next one to follow.

 

[Iryx]

Argent Squire is probably next on the "wtf this is in every deck, let's do something about!" list anyway.

I feel like Squire got nerfed this patch as a result of the Dark Iron Dwarf nerf anyway, since you can't permanetly upgrade it to a Scarlet Crusader anymore.
The Novice nerf probably cancles it out though, since Squire now trades favouarbly with both Novice and Loot Hoarder.

Edit: 2x Beaten.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Every nerf to a minion that buffs another minion is an indirect nerf to every minion. Nothing has changed.

/sarcasm

edit:

You can probably still get good value out of DID on a squire since its going to die quickly anyway.

 

[Mr Cola]

Argent Squire is probably next on the "wtf this is in every deck, let's do something about!" list anyway.

Id argue of the untouched Golemn is a bit too good a 3 drop (and is used in every class and most decks), it kills standard 2 drops and gifts another minion after that, again, kills standard 2 drops. I know its 3 mana but it would not shock me at all if the death rattle was patched to 1-1

 

[scy]

Turn 2 Kobold Geomancer -> Moonfire.

Rank 12 is a weird place.

 

[commish]

Id argue of the untouched Golemn is a bit too good a 3 drop (and is used in every class and most decks), it kills standard 2 drops and gifts another minion after that, again, kills standard 2 drops. I know its 3 mana but it would not shock me at all if the death rattle was patched to 1-1

I'm pretty sure no one would use it ever again if that was the case. There's already a card that gives a 2/3 and a 1/1 as a battlecry.

 

[Raxus]

Wait, they did another patch? SON OF A BITCH!

Always when I least expect it.

 

[imBask]

DAT PATCH

they went crazy on that one

 

[Schweinehund]

Those changes to argus protector really shows how good blizzard is at balancing.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Its not out quite yet. AFAIK no date announced either.

Those changes to argus protector really shows how good blizzard is at balancing.

I can't tell if you think it is a good change or if you are speaking sarcastically.

Either way its defender of argus

You kinda combined DOA and argent protector (the 2/2 paladin card that gives another minion shield)

 

[inky]

You're forgetting though, it kept AS in check and got you a card as well. Doing both is too much for a 2 drop draw card creature imo.

No, I didn't forget Like I said, keeps it in check over 2 turns, and that is if it doesn't die for free during any of your opponent's next 2 turns, which chances are it will. I thought that was an OK tradeoff before, I don't know if I'll run it at 1/1 =/

 

[Raxus]

My thoughts:

Warsong Commander is worthless to me know but no skin off my back. I will just run Frothing to replace her.

They are really reaching around their heads in order to not nerf giants. Giants are going to be nerfed and they should really consider changing charge back.

Argus was expected. Still a great card for it's value.

Argent squires are going to be in every deck now. Dunno what they will do about loot hoarder.

LOL warlocks. LOL mages. I still expect nerfs from them but at least murloc rush will be a LOT less annoying to deal with.

These changes push paladins into the forefront. Get used to the 4 mana cost truesilver guys, it isn't going to be around for long.

I ve spent 50 bucks and all i got was a nerfed legendary

When the change comes disenchant it for another.

Before you do let me remind you that even at 6 mana Sylvanis is still really frikkin good and the best legendary in the game.

 

[inky]

Have you guys seen any decks that run Malygos? I got it yesterday in my Arena pack.

 

[Ferrio]

I ve spent 50 bucks and all i got was a nerfed legendary

I've spent 25 dollars and all I got was Nozdormu

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

They are really reaching around their heads in order to not nerf giants. Giants are going to be nerfed and they should really consider changing charge back.

Why should giants be nerfed at this point?

Changing charge back will just allow warrior to OTK again.

 

[Technosteve]

So what do I replace Sylvanas Windrunner with? Rag?

 

[Mr Cola]

Have you guys seen any decks that run Malygos? I got it yesterday in my Arena pack.

Saw a mage run it in arena, 15 damage pyro is pretty sweet. That being said its very open to silence and in most mage decks that would use it lose board control, openly. The problem here is you have a 9 mana card that you then cannot play any cards after in a board that is likely occupied by many enemy minions, and it does 4 damage. There is also to take into account that mages cant afford to have a card in their arsenal that doesnt have utility in the early game to survivie or a late game that allows them to profit from low health, i.e molten giants. Then again the meta could change with the new pyro nerfs so I dont know how good it will be going forward.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I can see the silence owl getting more play for loot hoarders/taunters

I like that they are trying to fix cards that show up in most decks. I wouldn't consider novice engineer broken, but if it is showing up in everything, they did need to do something about it.

Flamestrike is only great in arena.

So what do I replace Sylvanas Windrunner with? Rag?

Still a good card

 

[imBask]

I can see the silence owl getting more play for loot hoarders/taunters

I said the exact same thing to my friend, we'll see a lot more of Owl to counter the early Loot Hoarder

 

[Opiate]

The complaints about Ice Block and Flamestrike -- in addition to the actual nerf to Pyroblast -- illustrates how difficult it is to balance Mage here.

I'm not sure if many people have been watching, but at high levels of play / in tournaments / at legendary, Druid and Warlock have been the two most popular classes for some time. Mage is up there behind them, but so is Rogue.

If they'd nerfed Flamestrike but not Pyroblast, people would have complained. If they'd nerfed Ice Block but not Flamestrike or Pyroblast, people would have most definitely complained. And finally, giving major nerfs to Pyroblast and Flamestrike and Ice Block in a single patch when Mage was good-but-not-dominant simply isn't logical unless everyone was getting massive nerfs at the same time. I suspect people simply find things like Flamestrike "unfun" (not that I necessarily disagree), and are also upset by Mage's strength in Arena (which is reasonable but not how'd you balance such concerns).

 

[scy]

The complaints about Ice Block and Flamestrike -- in addition to the actual nerf to Pyroblast -- illustrates how difficult it is to balance Mage here.

I'm not sure if many people have been watching, but at high levels of play / in tournaments / at legendary, Druid and Warlock have been the two most popular classes for some time. Mage is up there behind them, but so is Rogue.

If they'd nerfed Flamestrike but not Pyroblast, people would have complained. If they'd nerfed Ice Block but not Flamestrike or Pyroblast, people would have most definitely complained. And finally, giving major nerfs to Pyroblast and Flamestrike and Ice Block in a single patch when Mage was good-but-not-dominant simply isn't logical unless everyone was getting massive nerfs at the same time.

Between Pyroblast and Ice Block, I'd rather have seen Ice Block changed personally. Dealing with Pyroblast is one thing but the only real grievance I have with it is when it comes from behind invulnerability turns.

Any change to Flamestrike should really just be to the rarity (or lack thereof, I suppose) since it's only really good in Arena and most of that is due to the availability of it. Though I doubt Blizzard wants to adjust Rarity at all so it's most likely never an option.

I said the exact same thing to my friend, we'll see a lot more of Owl to counter the early Loot Hoarder

I will gladly give you the card draw instead of putting an Owl in my deck.

 

[Won]

Id argue of the untouched Golemn is a bit too good a 3 drop (and is used in every class and most decks), it kills standard 2 drops and gifts another minion after that, again, kills standard 2 drops. I know its 3 mana but it would not shock me at all if the death rattle was patched to 1-1

That's on the list too, I'm sure.

Point is nerfing something because it's popular while we still sitting on the first set of cards just doesn't sound reasonable to me at this point. They want see more card variety? Hurry up, release the game and introduce more cards.

So what do I replace Sylvanas Windrunner with? Rag?

Millhouse Manastorm!

 

[imBask]

So what do I replace Sylvanas Windrunner with? Rag?

Sylvanas is still a great card

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Millhouse Manastorm!

I actually run him in my Murloc Warlock deck. It can lead to...interesting results. One such being a turn 6 Mind Control on something like a 3/2. It's very good vs. Warriors, not so much vs. most other classes though if you can't drop it on turn 2. But that deck is super gimmicky "win by turn 7, ideally 6 or 5, or die" anyway. It's usually worth the risk.

 

[Technosteve]

i'm going to trade Sylvanas Windrunner for double Pyro

#Upgrade

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I said the exact same thing to my friend, we'll see a lot more of Owl to counter the early Loot Hoarder

Seems like a waste of a valuable silence to me tbh.

 

[frequency]

I don't like the Novice Engineer nerf. That is a basic card. Loot Hoarder is not.

The only neutral card draw new/unlucky players have now is Gnomish Engineer.

 

[imBask]

Seems like a waste of a valuable silence to me tbh.

yeah, thinking about it afterward I kinda agree, not the best option... I expect 2 loot hoarder by decks anyway, heh

I don't like the Novice Engineer nerf. That is a basic card. Loot Hoarder is not.

The only neutral card draw new/unlucky players have now is Gnomish Engineer.

that's a really good point. but then again Blizzard wants you to buy stuff, so...

 

[inky]

Nothing quite like Mind-controlling Ysera and killing them with it

 

[Ferrio]

Seems like a waste of a valuable silence to me tbh.

Ya might as well just run a loot runner yourself. That silence is all that damn owl has.

 

[scy]

The more likely case is that 2/3s might be more popular again.

 

[Neki]

I hope you guys don't mind if I roll need from now on. I really need the cards.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

So I figured a way for warriors to still OTK.

Scenario 1:

Molten giant x 2, charge x 2 = 20 damage

add in 2 inner rages = 24 damage

add x2 abusive sergeants = 28 damage

add 1 dire wolf alpha = 30 damage

9 cards, 10 mana @ 10hp

scenario 2:

Molten giant + charge = 10 damage

worgen + charge (5/3) + inner rage (7/2) + inner rage (8/1) = 16 damage

abusive sergeant on worgen = 4 additional damage

7 cards, 7-10 mana, @10-13 hp

 

[Dahbomb]

So I figured a way for warriors to still OTK.

Scenario 1:

Molten giant x 2, charge x 2 = 20 damage

add in 2 inner rages = 24 damage

add x2 abusive sergeants = 28 damage

add 1 dire wolf alpha = 30 damage

9 cards, 10 mana @ 10hp

scenario 2:

Molten giant + charge = 10 damage

worgen + charge (5/3) + inner rage (7/2) + inner rage (8/1) = 16 damage

abusive sergeant on worgen = 4 additional damage

7 cards, 7-10 mana, @10-13 hp

Fucking awful. Who the hell is going to have 9 cards in hands to perform that combo?

 

[JesseZao]

Was pyro/frothing OTK touched? I don't have moltens yet.

Edit: I guess pyro frothing OTK is still possible, but you have to wait until turn 10 since charge costs three, or use a warsong and hope it survives turn 6. Putting a frothing down uncharged usually gets focused,