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Hearts of Iron IV |OT| Pimp My Reich

HOI3 wasn't a straight-forward WW2 simulation either. Sometimes things went awry - France refuses to fall, for instance - and the game wasn't very good at adapting to those circumstances. HOI3 wanted to be both things at once. It tried to be a faithful adaptation of World War 2, but it also gave you enough latitude to conquer Europe as Poland or whatever. HOI3 never really reconciled those two things. I appreciate that Paradox is trying to do that with HOI4, although I think it will take some time to get right. From what I've seen, Germany seems to have trouble conquering France, and the Soviets jump into the war too early. At least HOI3 got the initial stages of the war right, even if it had to resort to a lot of kludges to balance it; I think the game was particularly good depicting the eastern front. HOI4 will likely need more time.
That's kind of what I was getting at with saying the middle of the road approach doesn't work. We'll see how well HOI4 executes on it once the initial wave of bugs and AI issues are patched out because the streams so far haven't been a good look in that regard.

I like strategy games; i like stellaris; How hard is hearts of iron IV to learn compared to stellaris/other strategy titles?
i enjoyed the stelaris tutorial, does hearts of iron IV have a good/great tutorial?
HOI3 was far more complicated and micromanagement intensive than those games, but they've simplified some stuff for the sequel. But I'd still expect the game to be more demanding than those.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I have been watching Quill18's run with Italy all day. The game looks vastly improved over HoI3. Darkest Hour (an HoI2 variant) is probably my most played single player game ever lol. Definitely hyped as hell for this. The division designer looks amazing as I love nerding out on that stuff. I also like how much they have simplified resources which were so needlessly complex (seemingly) in older HoI games.
 
It's got a bit more going on with the research, national focus, tactics and commanders I think. But I have yet to play it of course.

HoI3 had commanders down to the divisional level, far more techs (You were researching 25 things at a time constantly as the Germans) and the automation AI was poorly explained and less functional. Microing combat was hard during Barbarossa let me tell you, lol. 4 cuts down on lots of micro for sure.
 

xealo

Member
I like strategy games; i like stellaris; How hard is hearts of iron IV to learn compared to stellaris/other strategy titles?
i enjoyed the stelaris tutorial, does hearts of iron IV have a good/great tutorial?

Stellaris have a symmetrical start allowing paradox to ease the player into everything at a much slower pace only introducing elements when they become relevant, it's naturally easy to pick up.

Can't really comment factually on Hoi4 yet, but for educated guesses, HoI4 to me looks much closer to older paradox games in that it just tosses you into it and expects you to hit the ground running. Even if the tutorial is great it probably will be like trying to learn to play EU4 or CK2.
 

karnage10

Banned
It's more difficult to get into then Stellaris or Europa Universalis. Pretty hardcore strategy, but a lot has been done in IV to make it more accessible and user friendly.

Watch a few of the Let's Plays online and see if it is for you.
Do you have a let's play that you think it showcases the game well to a newbie?

Been a long time coming. I'm quite excited for the ahistorical mode, the historical mode still does railroading even though it's not perfect (and I'm sure it'll be refined post-release), but previous games were not perfect either with the railroading. From my observations over time, at times it's really accurate and times it's not, I'm sure it'll be simulated better with our feedback. I'm also happy that there is also the ahistorical for what-ifs, it seems like a clear design path Paradox has been going for, the EU series took the same path with IV. HoI 3 was a good game but it also had a few broken gameplay systems that were never fixed, maybe HoI 4 has found it's footing with overall design changes they've made with HoI 4 outside of the simulation itself, we'll have to see.

Also I am German but not currently living in Germany and my Steam's store is changed since my residence also changed so I am able to buy the "full" version and according to their FAQ when I return back to Germany I will retain it.



Can't really comment on the new iteration of the series but previous HoI games are notorious for their difficulty, they considered the most difficult out of all their games. In any case this is from various reasons, for example in Hearts of Iron 3 the UI is atrocious in many areas and a lot of thing are obscure, there's also a ton of crazy micro with a lot of details that were verbose which made it artificially difficult outside strategy itself. Nonetheless the strategy tends to be very difficult from their other games, HoI is a war game, you are heavily focused on building the actual army itself such as its composition, theatres, the divisions, brigades, the front lines, supply lines, planning, etc, which requires knowledge of military command structures. That sort of strategy still exists in HoI 4, but thankfully they have refined the way you actually do these things (i.e they stepped away from the utter micro hell on a whole new level that was HoI 3), the UI for it for example is much better so it's removed a lot of the artificial difficulty. Tey did make an effort for it to be easier to get into from what I've heard of those that have got to play it (and from their own dev diaries). It's important to remember that the gameplay is also about building an actual army - not as simple as just constructing units and moving them to parts of the map. There is a lot of mechanics involved with creating an actual army, supplying it, as well as war strategy such as front line planning.

The gameplay sounds a lot of fun. Do you know if the game has difficulty levels? If it has maybe if i can't learnt he UI fast enough maybe on the lower difficulties it can be less punishing.
 

Almighty

Member
Quill's play through as Italy has put this game very much on my radar. Based on that though, I am worried that the AI is a little too wimpy to make the game fun. He pretty much steamrolled everything as Italy at the start of the war. Managing to even snag Paris before the Germans could.

Still I need a WWII game like this in my life.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
Do you have a let's play that you think it showcases the game well to a newbie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiqAAGj79hc


The gameplay sounds a lot of fun. Do you know if the game has difficulty levels? If it has maybe if i can't learnt he UI fast enough maybe on the lower difficulties it can be less punishing.

The difficulty level of a HoI game is just bonuses, what really makes the game easy or difficult is what country you choose to play. Playing as Italy, for example, is probably a much easier way to learn the game than as the Germans or Soviets.
 

karnage10

Banned
That's kind of what I was getting at with saying the middle of the road approach doesn't work. We'll see how well HOI4 executes on it once the initial wave of bugs and AI issues are patched out because the streams so far haven't been a good look in that regard.


HOI3 was far more complicated and micromanagement intensive than those games, but they've simplified some stuff for the sequel. But I'd still expect the game to be more demanding than those.

The game seems more complex but if the UI shows "clearly" what is happening and the tutorial gives an idea on how most mechanics work i feel like i don't mind losing my first few games learning the ropes; I just don't want to "need" to go to wikis/youtube videos to understand "everything".

Stellaris have a symmetrical start allowing paradox to ease the player into everything at a much slower pace only introducing elements when they become relevant, it's naturally easy to pick up.

Can't really comment factually on Hoi4 yet, but for educated guesses, HoI4 to me looks much closer to older paradox games in that it just tosses you into it and expects you to hit the ground running. Even if the tutorial is great it probably will be like trying to learn to play EU4 or CK2.

I feel like stellaris did a hell of a good job teaching me the game, while HoI4 will be more complex i wonder if it's as fun as stellaris to learn. I didn't buy EU4 so i never tried it, CK2 i haven't wasted enough time to learn it.
 

Uzzy

Member
HoI3 had commanders down to the divisional level, far more techs (You were researching 25 things at a time constantly as the Germans) and the automation AI was poorly explained and less functional. Microing combat was hard during Barbarossa let me tell you, lol. 4 cuts down on lots of micro for sure.

Organising the Red Army was amazing fun. Sorting out all those hundreds of divisions, giving them all commanders, checking to see that you're doing it efficiently.. then losing a bunch of those commanders in the purges and making you do it all again.
 

Volodja

Member
HoI3 had commanders down to the divisional level, far more techs (You were researching 25 things at a time constantly as the Germans) and the automation AI was poorly explained and less functional. Microing combat was hard during Barbarossa let me tell you, lol. 4 cuts down on lots of micro for sure.
Pretty much my experience with HoI 3 was being completely lost in the tech tree and spending hours manually handling the army setup on a single front, spacing HQs, figuring out how to organize divisions and armies and the whole commanding structure.
I recall very little of that all now but it's enough to see how different and simplified HoI4 is.
 

Randdalf

Member
The game seems more complex but if the UI shows "clearly" what is happening and the tutorial gives an idea on how most mechanics work i feel like i don't mind losing my first few games learning the ropes; I just don't want to "need" to go to wikis/youtube videos to understand "everything".



I feel like stellaris did a hell of a good job teaching me the game, while HoI4 will be more complex i wonder if it's as fun as stellaris to learn. I didn't buy EU4 so i never tried it, CK2 i haven't wasted enough time to learn it.

Stellaris is actually perfect for a tutorial because you start with one system, and it can spend the time to take you through all the necessary things you need to do.

I actually found CK2 really easy to get into, especially when you just think of it as a historical Game of Thrones simulator. EU4 is where I really hit a wall.
 

Duffman

Member
It's crazy how close to Stellaris this is releasing, well I can't really complain.

I've been watching Quill's Italy playthrough and the gameplay mechanics look really solid. Overall the game also looks much more user friendly than HOI3. I especially like the battle planner because it takes care of so much of that tedious micro management for you. I'm probably still going to wait for a few patches before buying this, though, since there seems to be some minor bugs regarding troop movement etc.
 
It's crazy how close to Stellaris this is releasing, well I can't really complain.

Stellaris was announced like 7 months after HoI4 missed it's original release date lol. HoI4 then failed to attain approved alpha status in Dec15, if it hasmd made it then we would have got hoi4 2 months before Stellaris.

Stellaris hitting a month before HoI was never part of the plan
 

Arulan

Member
I've been really looking forward to this. A friend and I are going to do a Germany-Japan game first. I haven't decided for single-player yet.
 

Erheller

Member
Nice OT. I'm not terribly hyped for this because I haven't been following along, but I may pick it up. I've been enjoying HoI3 lately, though - does HoI4 still have the Order of Battle stuff?
 

ZZMitch

Member
Ah yes, another Paradox game. Like Stellaris I bet I will put a bunch of hours in early, realize the AI is crap and the game is half finished, and then go back to modded CK2/EU4 until overhaul mods and a few expansions are released.

I will love this game in about 2 years I suspect! The Paradox Cycle continues.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
HOI4 was delayed a bunch of times so I'm confident this will be much better than stellaris. Unlike Stellaris, a HOI game is asymmetrical and therefore doesn't need as great of an AI to provide a challenge to an experienced player.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
That's kind of what I was getting at with saying the middle of the road approach doesn't work. We'll see how well HOI4 executes on it once the initial wave of bugs and AI issues are patched out because the streams so far haven't been a good look in that regard.
I think it will just take some time to get right. It isn't a matter of simply changing a few modifiers or decisions like in HOI3. One of the developers said that the national focus system requires the most time to test and balance. So it might be the case that it won't work perfectly at release.
HoI3 had commanders down to the divisional level, far more techs (You were researching 25 things at a time constantly as the Germans) and the automation AI was poorly explained and less functional. Microing combat was hard during Barbarossa let me tell you, lol. 4 cuts down on lots of micro for sure.
The tech system in HOI3 isn't very difficult to understand, just needlessly cluttered. Sure all those extra techs allowed for some customization, but the variant mechanic in HOI4 accomplishes the exact same thing and it's much more intuitive. Out of all the games in the series I've played, HOI3 has my least favorite research system. Darkest Hour (which I assume is based on HOI2) is probably my favorite. With the reintroduction of corporations, I was hoping that HOI4 would use the exact same system. I liked the idea of pairing up techs with unique teams. I'm hoping someone mods this back in.
 
Always been interested in the franchise, but previous games have been too complex for me. I really enjoyed EU4 though, I think I'll probably get this after it has Paradox's usual first few weeks of patches.
 

Ozium

Member
I don't see system requirement mentioned at all in this thread. Is this game graphically demanding?

MINIMUM:
OS: Windows 7 64-bit or newer
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 @ 2.66 GHz / AMD Athlon II X4 650 @ 3.20 GHz
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5850 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX470 with 1GB VRAM
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Storage: 2 GB available space
Sound Card: Direct X- compatible soundcard.
Additional Notes: Mouse and keyboard are required. / Latest available WHQL drivers from both manufacturers/ Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.

RECOMMENDED:
OS: Windows 7 64-bit or newer
Processor: Intel Core i5 750 @ 2.66 GHz / AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.20 GHz
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 6950 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX570 with 2GB VRAM
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Storage: 2 GB available space
Sound Card: Direct X- compatible soundcard.
Additional Notes: Mouse and keyboard are required. / Latest available WHQL drivers from both manufacturers. / Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.
 
The tech system in HOI3 isn't very difficult to understand, just needlessly cluttered. Sure all those extra techs allowed for some customization, but the variant mechanic in HOI4 accomplishes the exact same thing and it's much more intuitive. Out of all the games in the series I've played, HOI3 has my least favorite research system. Darkest Hour (which I assume is based on HOI2) is probably my favorite. With the reintroduction of corporations, I was hoping that HOI4 would use the exact same system. I liked the idea of pairing up techs with unique teams. I'm hoping someone mods this back in.

It was hard to understand not because the manner in which research was conducted was complicated, but because so many techs give opaque bonuses and the mechanics in general weren't explained. What's the difference between +2.5% IC and +2.5% IC efficiency for production? What does "front line target focus +5%" do? Some technologies are easy to understand but a lot of them, particularly those ones but also the whole doctrinal area (+5% ambush? What does that mean? How good is it?) are huge question marks for new players, or even to players who did successfully play through many games. I imagine Hoi4 has some of these issues as well, but the sheer scale of how many different techs there were magnified it substantially. Every bonus is so small that it's really hard to do trial and error and figure out what is good, what is bad etc, there were 200 different moving parts and you didn't know what your enemy had so you had no idea if you were failing because of bad unit composition, or because of support assets, or the enemy leaders, or your tech choices, or even because of event driven bonuses.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
It was hard to understand not because the manner in which research was conducted was complicated, but because so many techs give opaque bonuses and the mechanics in general weren't explained. What's the difference between +2.5% IC and +2.5% IC efficiency for production? What does "front line target focus +5%" do? Some technologies are easy to understand but a lot of them, particularly those ones but also the whole doctrinal area (+5% ambush? What does that mean? How good is it?) are huge question marks for new players, or even to players who did successfully play through many games. I imagine Hoi4 has some of these issues as well, but the sheer scale of how many different techs there were magnified it substantially. Every bonus is so small that it's really hard to do trial and error and figure out what is good, what is bad etc, there were 200 different moving parts and you didn't know what your enemy had so you had no idea if you were failing because of bad unit composition, or because of support assets, or the enemy leaders, or your tech choices, or even because of event driven bonuses.
I agree with that, although it's entirely possible to play the game without understanding those nuances. For a major nation with large leadership, there's no reason not to research as many doctrines as possible, and even if it is necessary to prioritize one doctrine over another, you can generally intuit which ones to pick based on your unit choices and division composition. Only a really difficult start would require a better understanding of those mechanics. In my opinion, as long as you pick a major nation, follow history, and delegate at least some control to the AI, HOI3 isn't all that punishing to learn. I certainly had a tougher time learning CK2. But I do think a lot of people gave up on HOI3 because of the lack of feedback and the level of artificial difficulty. For instance, to this day I'm still not sure if I'm properly using my navy.
 

Keasar

Member
Welp, first Hearts of Iron game I'm gonna really try to sink my teeth into.

If my only proper experience with Paradox games is Stellaris, how screwed am I?
 
Welp, first Hearts of Iron game I'm gonna really try to sink my teeth into.

If my only proper experience with Paradox games is Stellaris, how screwed am I?

You'll be fine, it doesn't seem uber challenging based on prerelease streams. Has a much better tutorial than previous games.
 
I haven't looked into this game yet, but based on Hearts of Iron 3, it's unlikely that I'll be getting this one. Even though I love the time period, HOI3 is just too detailed for me to enjoy. While my campaigns are usually pretty successful, I never felt like I had the best comprehension of everything that was going on and I hate that feeling. I tilt more towards EU.
 

Kabouter

Member
Organising the Red Army was amazing fun. Sorting out all those hundreds of divisions, giving them all commanders, checking to see that you're doing it efficiently.. then losing a bunch of those commanders in the purges and making you do it all again.

This is why you don't do the purges :D
 
Windows MINIMUM:
OS: Windows 7 64-bit or newer
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 @ 2.66 GHz / AMD Athlon II X4 650 @ 3.20 GHz
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5850 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX470 with 1GB VRAM
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Storage: 2 GB available space
Sound Card: Direct X- compatible soundcard.
Additional Notes: Mouse and keyboard are required. / Latest available WHQL drivers from both manufacturers/ Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.

Windows RECOMMENDED:
OS: Windows 7 64-bit or newer
Processor: Intel Core i5 750 @ 2.66 GHz / AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.20 GHz
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 6950 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX570 with 2GB VRAM
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Storage: 2 GB available space
Sound Card: Direct X- compatible soundcard.
Additional Notes: Mouse and keyboard are required. / Latest available WHQL drivers from both manufacturers. / Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.

Linux Minimum:
OS: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS x32
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 @ 2.66 GHz / AMD Athlon II X4 650 @ 3.20 GHz
Memory: 2 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5850 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX470 with 1GB VRAM / Latest available proprietary drivers from both manufacturers
Storage: 2 GB available space
Additional Notes: Controller support: 3-button mouse, keyboard, and speakers are required. / Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.

Linux Recommended:
OS: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS x64
Processor: Intel Core i5 750 @ 2.66 GHz / AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.20 GHz
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 6950 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX570 with 2GB VRAM / Latest available proprietary drivers from both manufacturers
Storage: 2 GB available space
Additional Notes: Controller support: 3-button mouse, keyboard, and speakers are required. / Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.

Apple OSX Minimum:
OS: Mac OS X 10.10 or better
Processor: Intel Core i5 @ 2.60 GHz or better
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 6970M
Storage: 2 GB available space
Additional Notes: Mouse and keyboard are required. / Latest available proprietary drivers / Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.

Apple OSX Recommended:
OS: Mac OS X 10.11 or better
Processor: Intel Core i5 @ 2.90 GHz or better
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: ATI Radeon R9 390M or NVIDIA GeForce 750M with 1GB VRAM
Storage: 2 GB available space
Additional Notes: Mouse and keyboard are required. / Latest available proprietary drivers from both manufacturers/ Internet Connection or LAN for multiplayer, Up to 32 other players in multiplayer mode.
FTFY
 

Lach

Member
Preordered the game after all. Seems to be the perfect game to play while the Euro Matches are on TV in the background.

Checked a few HoI3 let's plays back in the day but they seemed too complicated. HoI looks a lot better. Mostly watched Quill and UnstableVoltage videos. Seems reasonably stable other than frontline / advancement problems and some enemy AI blunders.

Guess I will play the tutorial and continue the easy Italian (continue playing after the tutorial is a game on easy) as my first playthrough
 

Jimrpg

Member
I'm so hyped for this game... but unfortunately I chose to get Stellaris over this... im thinking HOIIV will be much better, a little disappointed in Stellaris tbh.

Also a suggestion to put review links in the OT.
 

Impulsor

Member
I'm so hyped for this game... but unfortunately I chose to get Stellaris over this... im thinking HOIIV will be much better, a little disappointed in Stellaris tbh.

SAme, that is why I was asking... right above your post. This looks awesoem and I'm a huge fan of the WWII setting.
 
I'm so hyped for this game... but unfortunately I chose to get Stellaris over this... im thinking HOIIV will be much better, a little disappointed in Stellaris tbh.

Also a suggestion to put review links in the OT.

Once the game comes out and you play it you'll find faults, be assured.

I've already started work on a design doc for my mod :p


Although I do think this will be the better game yes. Stellaris is a bit shallow since it's got a lot more 4x DNA than grand strategy DNA
 

m_dorian

Member
Stellaris launched unfinished and i am still hyped for this game, just waiting for the Asimov patch to fix some of its issues. So i do not have time for a new grand strategy game especially when The Darkest Hour fills my WW II (and WW I) want.

Will see how things are with HoI 4 after the first expansion or a series of interesting patches though.
 
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