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Heavenly Sword update (PS3)

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
From gofreak over at B3DL

I got my issue of Edge late this month, but tucked away in the back is a one page profile on Ninja Theory. There's a little snippet on what they're doing at the moment with HS on PS3, that had a couple of interesting tidbits of info:

"Ninja Tech has been built from the ground up to target next-generation systems. As one of the first announced Playstation3 developers our technology is uncompromisingly focused on squeezing the best out of that platform, putting us at the forefront of realtime rendering technology.

We currently have complex pixel shaders, a full atmospheric model, full-scene dynamic shadowing, HDR lighting, tone mapping, parallax mapping, internal lens reflection and depth-of-field all in hi-def resolution running in realtime.

We are researching Cell-based procedural systems for hair, cloth, clouds, water, weather and vegetation to transform our gaming world into a vibrant living vision of gorgeousness.

Our full-on combat system works against highly skilled individual AI, against coordinated squads of enemies, all the way through to army scenarios. The Havok physics engine is being used to push character interaction within the world and within combat to unprecedented levels."

Sounds yummy! Interesting to hear more of their usage of Cell too (and making things look "gorgeous" works for me ).

The article also mentions the team is currently made up of 34 members - and is about to double shortly.

Hopefully we'll catch sight of this again soon?!

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23941

DeanoC also stated this game will run at 1080p, IIRC
 

Izzy

Banned
The article also mentions the team is currently made up of 34 members - and is about to double shortly.

Hahaha - I remember the time when they only had a couple of lads working on it.


We currently have complex pixel shaders, a full atmospheric model, full-scene dynamic shadowing, HDR lighting, tone mapping, parallax mapping, internal lens reflection and depth-of-field all in hi-def resolution running in realtime.

All at once? Impressive.

We are researching Cell-based procedural systems for hair, cloth, clouds, water, weather and vegetation to transform our gaming world into a vibrant living vision of gorgeousness.

Good.
 
The target for this game so far is amazing. Please let there be some serious depth in it as well.

I am excited about all of the research that's being done. All those details are what next-gen is about to me.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Kleegamefan said:
DeanoC also stated this game will run at 1080p, IIRC

I don't think he confirmed it absolutely would be. Just that that's what they were targetting as of E3. Things can change. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see it come in at 720p.

The Cell stuff sound really nice, I'm glad to see them use it for "purdying it up". They probably have another 12 months to work on it too (I'm guessing its a launch title in the West - it wasn't on Sony's list of games for the Japanese market).
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
1080P.. it's sad that even if I do purchase a high end HDTV in the next few months, I doubt it will support that. I'd wager around 0.5% of people who own a ps3 will. Should look insane on one though.
 

Izzy

Banned
Wakune said:
what the hell is tone mapping?

Tone mapping allows an interactive application to achieve higher levels of realism by rendering with physically based, unclamped lighting values and high dynamic range texture maps. It can easily be extended to include a time-dependent model, which is crucial for interactive behaviour.

Read about it.
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
gofreak said:
I don't think he confirmed it absolutely would be. Just that that's what they were targetting as of E3. Things can change. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see it come in at 720p.

The Cell stuff sound really nice, I'm glad to see them use it for "purdying it up". They probably have another 12 months to work on it too (I'm guessing its a launch title in the West - it wasn't on Sony's list of games for the Japanese market).

But did Deano ever say anything else other than 1080p.....don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if they do go with 720p but the only official indications sofar is 1080p/30fps, AFAIK:

Here is a dev diary of the game:

If you split the demo into 2 sections (interior and exterior), the
interior runs real-time quite happily at 1080p
. The exterior struggles
a bit but more because we just kept adding more and more till it looked
right without going through various optimisation passes then anything
else (i.e. the flags are really expensive at the moment due to a quick
implementation).

Without saying anything regarding hardware etc. I will say everything
you see is still early and we expect it to run alot better in future...

avoid things, stay in formation etc., they try and jump out of the way
of the boozaka if you look carefully...) and use the normal animaton
system, they are even the same models, the LOD system handles it
transparently. They also turn into Havok ragdolls for a decent death.



Currently they are all on a single processor core, so the framerate
drops pretty sharply at high number of entities... but this should go
away once we have had a chance to work the machine properly...

Sony asked for 1080p for the trailer, so we provided it... Assuming all
things being equal I can't see why the final game wouldn't...


FPS I'll be really disappointed if we can't keep a steady 30 at worse
and would prefer 60 but given time scales 60 may not be possible (I'm
personally fussy about framerate so I'll try for a steady 60fps)

HDR is bread and butter for us, something like 2 years old tech.
Originally 16 bit integer (back in the ATI 9800 days) now FP16 based.
X360 has a nice 32 bit float mode (FP10) but I expect that will be
quite hard to use for proper HDR (never got a chance to use it so can't
really comment), considering we have actually hit precision issues with
FP16 framebuffers (64 bit). FP16 seems to be the best comprimise for a
framebuffer at the moment (its enough for most lighting, though we run
out of precision directly in front of the sun (noticeable on our cloud
renderer))

We haven't yet made the jump to a multi-thread game architeture yet. Almost everything sits on a single thread...

Actually the face is the only rendered thing in the demo, its uses our
high-end model (used for the surface extraction) rendering in Maya and
composited onto the in-game background. We were orignally intending to
do it in-engine as well, but there just wasn't time to implement all
the tech for a closeup (we don't have facial animation system at this
moment).

The other closeup of her face (after the aerial fight when she is falling down) is in-game.

Graphics and framerate are the low hanging fruit. Just threading up the
animation system and procedural graphics (hair, cloth, flags etc.) will
gives us a large amount of CPU time back for the game. The army need
this the most.


Longer term, Physics and AI services are obvious candidates.


As for what improves?, thats a good question. The priority is to move
the heavy weight stuff off the main game thread, hopefully doing this
will provide lots more time for the game code. That should improve the
gameplay in lots of ways.


Wether we will acheive all this and keep the code easy to develop with
is the big question. Lots of designers and coders (especially the more
junior members of the team) aren't used to dealing with threads, DMA
and C like code. Keeping a balance between the high level and the
harder stuff is the biggest challenge. I don't want a level designer
having to worry about threads but at the same time don't want him/her
coding in such a way that its totally serialised...

Its in-engine but I'd be lieing to say its very playable at the moment
BUT we have lots of work to do in this area. There is something like
2000 people on screen there, we have shown 500 people @ 30fps on our
old PC demo (GDC2004 time). Were not currently as efficient as we were
back when we did the last demo, a new more advanced shadow system and a
few other changes make each bloke a bit more expensive. To be honest
though, we knew we were about the change to the target platform when we
made those changes so optimising for a PC engine was a bit pointless.
Given the power and architecture of the target platform, it seems
achievable.

Actually Wil (one of the coders) has done some research work on
achieving that kind of depth of field and motion blur in-engine since
we finished the E3 demo. Its still being worked on but it looked pretty
good last time I saw it. He's calculating per-pixel velocity vectors so
you actually get smearing and blurring along the movement axis...

Currently we are about 30 odd, with the majority being coders but with
the rapid ramp up to full production we will grow alot (more than
double) with the art team becoming a much larger group percentage wise.

krypt0nian said:
The target for this game so far is amazing. Please let there be some serious depth in it as well.

I am excited about all of the research that's being done. All those details are what next-gen is about to me.


And the good news is since Ninja Theory are a SCEE-owned studio, the results of their research can go towards helping other Sony developers make great PS3 games....
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Kleegamefan said:
But did Deano ever say anything else other than 1080p.....don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if they do go with 720p but the only official indications sofar is 1080p/30fps, AFAIK:

Here is a dev diary of the game:






And the good news is since Ninja Theory are a SCEE-owned studio, the results of their research can go towards helping other Sony developers make great PS3 games....

Hehe, I was just looking at those quotes myself ;) By the sounds of it, 1080p was not their "default" resolution prior to E3, and they went to 1080p for the trailer for Sony. And the game in parts happens to run fine at that res. There's still the parts that don't (yet), though, and still the prospect of further improvement to the graphics and complexity that might rule out 1080p further down the line.

I guess all I'm saying is it's not guaranteed ;)

Kleegamefan said:
And the good news is since Ninja Theory are a SCEE-owned studio, the results of their research can go towards helping other Sony developers make great PS3 games....

I don't think they're SCEE-owned. SCEE is publishing this game, I don't know if they've a contract beyond that or not. But I don't think they own them.
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Tone Mapping:

image-orig.jpg


perceptual_tone_map_600.jpg


thirdrender.jfif
 

trmas

Banned
This and MGS are the games I want the most right now. It will be a launch title, and the best one at that.
 

trmas

Banned
I've heard that Sony intends to buy them and make them a first party after seeing how impressive their game was at E3. Sony put them on their feet, and rescued them from bankruptcy from what I've heard (could be wrong though)

I think it's safe to say they won't be putting any games out for the competition in the near future.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
trmas said:
I've heard that Sony intends to buy them and make them a first party after seeing how impressive their game was at E3. Sony put them on their feet, and rescued them from bankruptcy from what I've heard (could be wrong though)
After MS left them out to die, Capcom stealing off of them, and EA wanting to ass rape them into a contract...or something like that
 

Doube D

Member
how do publishing rights work anyway? Does that mean that even if sony doesn't buy them, that the rights to this game (and all others that would include that title "heavenly sword") belong to sony?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Doube D said:
how do publishing rights work anyway? Does that mean that even if sony doesn't buy them, that the rights to this game (and all others that would include that title "heavenly sword") belong to sony?

I think so, in this case at least. Sony has the trademark anyway. It's not a rule that a dev gives up IP rights, but it's very common.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Sony has signed them for more than one game, and that a second could well be a sequel to HS if it's successful. I've read before from Ninja Theory that they wanted to build it into a big franchise, so that would seem to suggest further games if things work out..and that would appear to necessarily tie them to Sony. Although I may have read about those plans before their agreement with Sony..
 

GeoramA

Member
Kleegamefan said:
We currently have complex pixel shaders, a full atmospheric model, full-scene dynamic shadowing, HDR lighting, tone mapping, parallax mapping, internal lens reflection and depth-of-field all in hi-def resolution running in realtime.

We are researching Cell-based procedural systems for hair, cloth, clouds, water, weather and vegetation to transform our gaming world into a vibrant living vision of gorgeousness.

Our full-on combat system works against highly skilled individual AI, against coordinated squads of enemies, all the way through to army scenarios. The Havok physics engine is being used to push character interaction within the world and within combat to unprecedented levels."

::drool::
 

JoDark

MS Viral Marketing
I really liked Kung Fu Chaos (should have been on Live!!!!!!)... looking forward to how this game turns out (same team). Looks like it could kick some pretty serious ass
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Doom_Bringer said:
Why was this game absent at TGS?

Good Q. It sounds like for now that it's not on the cards for the Japanese market. At least I gather that from its absence from Sony's current list of announced games for the Japanese market.

Seems strange though, I thought it might be a game that could do fairly well there.
 
gofreak said:
Good Q. It sounds like for now that it's not on the cards for the Japanese market. At least I gather that from its absence from Sony's current list of announced games for the Japanese market.

Seems strange though, I thought it might be a game that could do fairly well there.

That's funny because the director or the producer (Nina) said that the story, the world etc is inspired by East Asian and Japanese history. To me HS looks like a Dynasty Warriors killer, I think it would do great if they marketed it properly. The Japanese love this shit, oh well another dumb decision by Sony :p
 

Razoric

Banned
JoDark said:
I really liked Kung Fu Chaos (should have been on Live!!!!!!)... looking forward to how this game turns out (same team). Looks like it could kick some pretty serious ass

Damn it's made by those guys? Awesome!

Can anyone fill me on on the story with these devs. How did they go from making Kung Fu Chaos for MS to being left for dead and potentially screwed over by EA? What happened?
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Doom_Bringer said:
Why was this game absent at TGS?


There were tons of E3 PS3 games absent at TGS (Tekken, I-8, Eyedentify,Killing Day, Red Dead Revolver 2, Fight Night, Ni-Oh)....hopefully they will make an appearence at the PLAYSTATION 3 show in Feb. 2006 :)


Notice that both Tekken and Ni-Oh are both japanese games, ....yet....nothing was shown for TGS....

I think they will make an apperence when the time is right (X360 launch) :D
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Doom_Bringer said:
That's funny because the director or the producer (Nina) said that the story, the world etc is inspired by East Asian and Japanese history. To me HS looks like a Dynasty Warriors killer, I think it would do great if they marketed it properly. The Japanese love this shit, oh well another dumb decision by Sony :p

Well I doubt they've made the decision yet :p Just for now it's not scheduled for Japan. I'd say that'll probably change, or I hope so.
 
Kleegamefan said:
There were tons of E3 PS3 games absent at TGS (Tekken, I-8, Eyedentify,Killing Day, Red Dead Revolver 2, Fight Night, Ni-Oh)....hopefully they will make an appearence at the PLAYSTATION 3 show in Feb. 2006 :)


Notice that both Tekken and Ni-Oh are both japanese games, ....yet....nothing was shown for TGS....

I think they will make an apperence when the time is right (X360 launch) :D

that makes a lot of sense :)

Btw check out this PS3 footage montage by G4, most of the stuff is old but there is some new Gundam PS3 stuff in there. It looks like the old E3 vision trailer but this time they show new destructible environment (robot falling on the building and taking it down) :D

http://www.gametrailers.com/
Episode 9
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Yeah...I saw that....

It that REAL TIME? :O

It seems as if there are THOUSANDS of 3D particles flying about as the Gundam is crushing the building......I just figured it had to be CG....
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Doom_Bringer said:
that makes a lot of sense :)

Btw check out this PS3 footage montage by G4, most of the stuff is old but there is some new Gundam PS3 stuff in there. It looks like the old E3 vision trailer but this time they show new destructible environment (robot falling on the building and taking it down) :D

http://www.gametrailers.com/
Episode 9

Cheers, really nice vid. The Gundam footage did indeed look new, and different - the mechs looked a little different than before, different colouring. Nice building destruction too! Also some media in there from Konami's "big-headed" baseball game - just one character model, but i wasn't aware there was any media at all for it, so that was cool.

Hopefully the Gundam stuff was realtime. It looked rather sweet:

gundamdestruction2bd.jpg


Anyway, yes...err..Heavenly Sword ;)
 
gofreak said:
Cheers, really nice vid. The Gundam footage did indeed look new, and different - the mechs looked a little different than before, different colouring. Nice building destruction too! Also some media in there from Konami's "big-headed" baseball game - just one character model, but i wasn't aware there was any media at all for it, so that was cool.

Hopefully the Gundam stuff was realtime. It looked rather sweet:

gundamdestruction2bd.jpg


Anyway, yes...err..Heavenly Sword ;)

nice shot.

The vid is probably pre rendered but I think they will manage to match it. Their real time demo at the Playstation meeting was only running on the PPE. I guess we will have to wait until Feb 2006 to see the game.
 

Kangu

Banned
I wish developers would tell us what the fuck their effects do, in layman's terms, rather than using all that technical jargon fanboys jizz all over.
 

Varian

Member
"Our full-on combat system works against highly skilled individual AI, against coordinated squads of enemies, all the way through to army scenarios. The Havok physics engine is being used to push character interaction within the world and within combat to unprecedented levels."
Any speculation on the AI gofreak?
 
This is pretty much the only "watch us throw thousands of characters on screen" game i'm looking forward to at this point. It might turn out to be bad, but unlike the other games of the same style it hasn't shown that it likely will. So till then i'll look forward to it.
 

Willy Wanka

my god this avatar owns
JoDark said:
I really liked Kung Fu Chaos (should have been on Live!!!!!!)... looking forward to how this game turns out (same team). Looks like it could kick some pretty serious ass

Same. Obviously the games are completely different but I have faith that HS will be fun to play and not just eye meltingly beautiful :)
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Has anybody started a thread on the new Gundam video? I can't find the damn video.

And go Heavenly Sword.
 

Chrono

Banned
The article also mentions the team is currently made up of 34 members - and is about to double shortly.

Ha! What happened to all the talk about next-gen requiring teams made out of hundreds of people? :D

300+ iirc was what some square guy said

Even if they double the HS team they'll be just 68. I know games like RPGs need more people but it doesn't look like it's impossible to make an awesome RPGS with 100 people.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Chrono said:
Ha! What happened to all the talk about next-gen requiring teams made out of hundreds of people? :D

300+ iirc was what some square guy said

Even if they double the HS team they'll be just 68. I know games like RPGs need more people but it doesn't look like it's impossible to make an awesome RPGS with 100 people.

QFT. Sad part is most people (90%) still will believe that you will have to hire 300 people to make a AAA title.


And where is that direct Gundam video clip link?
 
I believe the 3 people that set up Just Add Monsters, which then became Ninja Theory, were originally from the SCEE Cambridge Studio. This would explain why they were very comfortable being published by SCEE.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Nick Laslett said:
I believe the 3 people that set up Just Add Monsters, which then became Ninja Theory, were originally from the SCEE Cambridge Studio. This would explain why they were very comfortable being published by SCEE.

That's correct ;)
 
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