Blizzard let people see it early to build up hype like Hearthstone, but it's just not happened and the game is lucky to hit more than a couple of hundred viewers on Twitch. And the fact that they thought adding runes was a good enough idea to put out live says more than enough about Blizzard.
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Heroes of the Storm Technical Alpha Thread: [Artifacts Removed]
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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Blizzard let people see it early to build up hype like Hearthstone, but it's just not happened and the game is lucky to hit more than a couple of hundred viewers on Twitch. And the fact that they thought adding runes was a good enough idea to put out live says more than enough about Blizzard.
Yeah. The Specialists are generally labeled Hard in difficulty as well, but until we get more iconic characters people will be drawn to the super unique ones...
Also, to add about making friends if you're tired of solo queueing, there's a reddit chat channel (type "join /reddit") as well as a reddit mumble.
Yep.
The *only* way it's KINDA easy to stomach is if they put a ton of hours into the system and felt it necessary to deploy it. Other than that - it really just feels like they were trying to put the wool over our eyes.... knowing we were allergic to wool.
But I don't take it personally. It didn't work. They removed it. We move on. I'm just wondering what their intended gold sink will be. It *must* be around the corner somewhere.
I do enjoy the game.. but its very easy.
I also really just wish they would implement a regular standard Moba mode with last hitting. Some of the objectives on the map are just annoying, especially when your team doesnt even go for them.
Im excited to see where they take the game from here, but without a standard moba mode, I dont think its going to survive at all on a competitive level.
I also really just wish they would implement a regular standard Moba mode with last hitting. Some of the objectives on the map are just annoying, especially when your team doesnt even go for them.
Im excited to see where they take the game from here, but without a standard moba mode, I dont think its going to survive at all on a competitive level.
There is absolutely no chance on earth they will implement last hitting. The entire point of the game is to move away from 'standard MOBAs'. Blizzard are trying to design a game that doesn't require 200 hours of play just to become average.
Not sure what you mean by 'too easy' though - what is too easy?
Ultimately, blizzard are trying for something very different to standard MOBAs, so if you're looking for another version of LoL / Dota 2 you are going to be dissapointed. Whether or not it gains a competitive scene is still to be seen, but right now Blizzard aren't even thinking about that it seems as they build the basics of the game.
Not sure what you mean by 'too easy' though - what is too easy?
Ultimately, blizzard are trying for something very different to standard MOBAs, so if you're looking for another version of LoL / Dota 2 you are going to be dissapointed. Whether or not it gains a competitive scene is still to be seen, but right now Blizzard aren't even thinking about that it seems as they build the basics of the game.
Less complex != easy. Not sure why MOBA players in general never get that concept but it's pretty silly. It's kind of like saying Divekick is easy and not good as a point of derision, Divekick is SIMPLE but it is a pure expression of skill.
Blizzard are basically trying to do to MOBAs what they did to MMOs with WoW. Whilst I do agree with them that there is definitely a market for a more casual orientated MOBA with a lot of the bullshit removed (last hit, denies, creep stacking, laning, 50 minute games, one map only) it will be interesting to see whether this game is the one to fill that gap, or whether the fact it's very late to the market will impact on its success.
Obviously the current crop of MOBAs are astronomically bigger than the equivalent MMOs such as Everquest were when blizzard disrupted that market. Will be interesting to see how many untapped players there are out there who are put off by the current entry level barriers into LoL / Dota 2, or how many players will switch over when the games released.
Obviously the current crop of MOBAs are astronomically bigger than the equivalent MMOs such as Everquest were when blizzard disrupted that market. Will be interesting to see how many untapped players there are out there who are put off by the current entry level barriers into LoL / Dota 2, or how many players will switch over when the games released.
This is a genre where the leading game removed one incredibly obscure and counter-intuitive ability (denies) which resulted in a torrent of scorn from players that still goes on today. A genre where fundamental flaws in the Warcraft 3 engine are celebrated and applauded, and retained in a brand new game for no purpose other than 'more skill'. A genre where the most popular intro guide is titled 'Welcome to Dota, you suck' and people are regularly told you need 200 hours of play to become 'average'.
It's an incredibly hostile, elitist community that enjoys looking down on people from a position of superiority. The very notion that something might be a better game through being 'easier' seems to send people running for pitchforks and torches.
Yep, exactly my point. Denies were always stupid. Do they add more things to do to the game? Obviously. But any DOTA2 fanatic will trash League to no end for not having them, as though League is some baby's game and Dota is the only truly competetive one. It's fairly ridiculous. It's one thing not to be interested in a game that doesn't have last hitting or denies or items or anything, with a lower barrier to entry, but it's another to act like those are what make the games hard - those make the games obtuse, there's a difference.
I've been a long-time MOBA player (before the term MOBA existed!!)... and I've only really gotten decent at the genre in general. But - not being EXCELLENT at the genre never deterred me from playing it.
All that said - I applaud the "simplicity" of Blizzard's MOBA and it's relatively low barrier to entry. I also rather enjoy the quicker games. Which, by the way, is much quicker than people think. Character select (for now) is all done BEFORE match-making begins... essentially allowing the game to begin immediately when you are connected. This "small" aspect is actually a huge time saver. The drawback is there are times in which you get poor matchmaking groups.... but that's the risk you have to knowingly take when entering in solo-queue.
My biggest gripe is only that the people that I've grouped with don't always understand that this is an objective based game. Map awareness is key in relation to gaining and winning objectives. Level superiority can be a major aspect - but it can be overcome with timely team battle wins and objective victories.
I'm looking forward to more people being able to test this game out. I'd like to see how people react to the lower barrier (I wouldn't call the game easy, BTW). Keep an open mind a play for a good hour or two. That's about 5- 6 games. Should give you a good taste.
All that said - I applaud the "simplicity" of Blizzard's MOBA and it's relatively low barrier to entry. I also rather enjoy the quicker games. Which, by the way, is much quicker than people think. Character select (for now) is all done BEFORE match-making begins... essentially allowing the game to begin immediately when you are connected. This "small" aspect is actually a huge time saver. The drawback is there are times in which you get poor matchmaking groups.... but that's the risk you have to knowingly take when entering in solo-queue.
My biggest gripe is only that the people that I've grouped with don't always understand that this is an objective based game. Map awareness is key in relation to gaining and winning objectives. Level superiority can be a major aspect - but it can be overcome with timely team battle wins and objective victories.
I'm looking forward to more people being able to test this game out. I'd like to see how people react to the lower barrier (I wouldn't call the game easy, BTW). Keep an open mind a play for a good hour or two. That's about 5- 6 games. Should give you a good taste.
There are still a few things blizzard need to teach better in the tutorials:
1) you need someone in each lane to get experience from that lane, and early on that's key.
2) objectives are god unless you are on the verge of winning, or cannot in any way do them in which case don't bother suiciding.
In terms of objectives btw - has anyone had any luck with the 'take all merc camps instead of the golem' tactic on the underground mine level?
1) you need someone in each lane to get experience from that lane, and early on that's key.
2) objectives are god unless you are on the verge of winning, or cannot in any way do them in which case don't bother suiciding.
In terms of objectives btw - has anyone had any luck with the 'take all merc camps instead of the golem' tactic on the underground mine level?
Yes. It is far and away the best way to go about that map.
The frist two golems are weak, so when the other team goes down for skulls, going and taking the camps and pushing one lane as far in as you can has never failed to win me the game. (Obviously, depending on your team comp, you can still have one or two guys down there getting skulls.) Third goldem, when it becomes worth far more skulls, is when you want to really start caring about the mines. Once they open the third time, your team should just go straight for the golem, then get out and get camps.
The main thing is that if you abandon the mines the other team can fight you and potentially win, and then THAT victory is pretty huge since then the winner gets the mercs and the mines both. It's a fun little metagame on that map, but in pick up groups it typically will just be one or the other. Whoever has the best teamfighting comp at any given moment (like early game) SHOULD go for the same objective as the other team, and the other team obviously wants to juke them and still pick up mercs or golems.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
My anecdotal experience is that either approach seems viable for the first cycle, and all subsequent cycles largely depend on who can at least cap 3-4 mercs and half the skulls. I'd say it's pretty balanced, but like most maps, your group's ability to stick together and show up for team fights at objectives will have the greatest impact on momentum swings. I guess that probably goes without saying, but I'm Capt. Obvious.
Lately, there's been a lot of people deliberately leaving skulls up in mines to milk the game, but I'm not really sure what real benefit this has unless you're already winning.
sobaka770
Banned
That hero leveling to unlock talents is still annoying even after they reduced the XP required. I do not want to play 3-4 games as a lesser version of Tyrande (you only get her healing talents, which are undertuned atm), or any other hero for that matter.
This feature should be opt-in when you launch the game, i.e. noob-mode with separate matchmaking, kind of like PRactice League in SC2. Alternatively, you can always create the option: "Highlight recommended talents". I really hope this talentgate was not fixed only because they couldn't excise it like the artifacts without removing the rest of hero progression system, which is actually cool.
Dat Valla Master skin... Soon... <3
By the way, StormGAF, add me! Ursus#1442 (Europe)
This feature should be opt-in when you launch the game, i.e. noob-mode with separate matchmaking, kind of like PRactice League in SC2. Alternatively, you can always create the option: "Highlight recommended talents". I really hope this talentgate was not fixed only because they couldn't excise it like the artifacts without removing the rest of hero progression system, which is actually cool.
Dat Valla Master skin... Soon... <3
By the way, StormGAF, add me! Ursus#1442 (Europe)
What's the opinion on the pricing of the heroes?
I've just started playing (with no prior moba experience apart from 20h of dota). While the game is fun I've got some concerns about the pricing of the heroes, 8$ for a hero seems fairly steep - is it the same in LOL?
I know you can unlock all the heroes with ingame gold, which at this rate is only coming very slowly, even with daily quests.
Overall I'm really enjoying it so far, the "too easy" part is only a plus in my book, the entry point for dota's way too steep for my liking, and never really cared for league.
I've just started playing (with no prior moba experience apart from 20h of dota). While the game is fun I've got some concerns about the pricing of the heroes, 8$ for a hero seems fairly steep - is it the same in LOL?
I know you can unlock all the heroes with ingame gold, which at this rate is only coming very slowly, even with daily quests.
Overall I'm really enjoying it so far, the "too easy" part is only a plus in my book, the entry point for dota's way too steep for my liking, and never really cared for league.
SneakyStephan
Banned
bahahaha what am I reading
OT: they may have removed runes but they showed their intentions
200 hours to become average? Hah! Most people net 200 hours to not be completely terrible at Dota.
Woot! Just got a Alpha invite. I have never played a MOBA before. I don't even think I completely know what it stands for. I have friends who play DOTA, don't even know what that stands for either. Blizzard has always done a great job with their games and from reading it seems like Heroes will be easier to get into. That friend of mine says DOTA has a lot of shitty people that play and isn't welcome to new players.
So tonight, I'll give it a try. Does anyone know if the game supports a gamepad?
So tonight, I'll give it a try. Does anyone know if the game supports a gamepad?
There's no way you'd be able to play it with one at any remotely fair level.
I got an alpha invite as well! From what I've seen so far it is definitely a MOBA for a MOBA hater like myself. Blizzard definitely has a long road ahead of them with this genre but I am excited for what they come with. Personally I'm looking for an additional layer of complexity. Not like item trees or meta game like other MOBAs but some other additional element. Not sure if that makes sense. Also I would like faster hero run movement speeds!
Welcome to the alpha, it's fun but man this genre still brings in whiny people. I always fight back with them though I can't believe my beloved games have turned into a fucking whine fest...these people are mostly adults, adults that whine like babies. Who are you people? Lol
I haven't played a whole lot since the artifacts patch and subsequent removal, but I've been waiting on Anub'Arak. Chen looks cool was well. I'm curious what possessed them to release 3 arachnids out of the last four heroes though...you'd figure they'd split em up, but eh.
I also noticed at the end of the trailer how it said "sign up for the beta". How many more sign ups for the beta before we are finally in beta?
ToyMachine228
Member
This post at least gives me hope that Alpha invites are still actively being sent out.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Unless I'm mistaken, artifacts were removed, but characters were not reverted to their pre-artifact-balance selves. Which I'm kind of surprised hasn't been messier than it is, though anecdotally it seems to have affected healers not named Rehgar more than anyone else.
That may be part of the reason, but it could also be a result of the anti-snowballing changes, and the general skill level of people creeping up. I'm not sure I've experienced the same thing as you though. One game out of 3 maybe is well balanced enough to last more than 20 minutes, the other 2 I'm usually either part of a team that dominates or gets dominated, with the outcome seeming pretty obvious after about 5-10 minutes.
Yup, it's the SFxT no-gems as standard situation.
What matches I've played have showcased exactly what you describe. Healing numbers felt way down in comparison to the past for the length of the games, and even damage numbers didn't seem quite as high. Most of my matches were 25 minutes plus, when previously they were 18-23 range tops.
And in general, as you have said, people are getting better. I think that has greatly contributed to extended the matches. The new garden map is super huge too, that doesn't help IMO.
To be fair, I've played a large number of games which could have ended a lot earlier had people pushed harder. Especially when losing games, often the enemy team will go do camps or chase an objective when 4 of our heroes are down and they already have a clear path to the core.
At the moment I have to say I'm stopped playing. Partly because there's another wipe coming, but mostly because there just aren't enough heroes in the game. I didn't realise until playing HoTs how integral having a large cast is for MOBA style games. I love the game so far, and will be playing like mad once the next three go in, but right now they need to focus on adding heroes more than anything else I feel.
(And balance. God knows why they are leaving siege tank they way she currently is for so long. Really unsure why something that's labelled an alpha is being patched at the same rate as a full released game (for another company)).
At the moment I have to say I'm stopped playing. Partly because there's another wipe coming, but mostly because there just aren't enough heroes in the game. I didn't realise until playing HoTs how integral having a large cast is for MOBA style games. I love the game so far, and will be playing like mad once the next three go in, but right now they need to focus on adding heroes more than anything else I feel.
(And balance. God knows why they are leaving siege tank they way she currently is for so long. Really unsure why something that's labelled an alpha is being patched at the same rate as a full released game (for another company)).
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
The garden should be a 2 lane map, imo. If they wanted to make a hedge maze, they should have just made a hedge maze. I think the whole map would work better if it was roughly the same shape and flow as the skulls map sans the mines, maybe just bigger.
I'm looking for a group of people to play with. Tired of playing with randoms who have no idea how to coordinate with their team. Anyone looking for 1 more with mumble or skype?
Currently level 20 I believe. Haven't been in alpha too long but I'm pretty decent at the game already.
PM me
Currently level 20 I believe. Haven't been in alpha too long but I'm pretty decent at the game already.
PM me
So I just read this:
The source being: http://heroes.ingame.de/heroes-of-the-storm/115864#english
And this finally woke me up. Despite the fact that they originally wanted to make a game that wasn't about "shitting on the enemy team" or whatever they said, in the end they still really want to make a LoL clone. Which means every decision is going to revolve around that. Which means we're going pick/ban, which means we're never going to get better gold gain, which means we're going to have a too large hero list. The fact that the heroes weren't instantly free like in DotA 2 should have stopped me. The artifact fiasco should have been the major warning shot. But of course it's this, because I had some delusions of playing this game seriously but unlike everyone else I wanted to wait until there was more in-game support (such as custom games coming back in or just plain being out of alpha first).
I don't want to play an asymmetric character game where outright banning characters away from either side is a major mechanic. That is not why I play asymmetric character games. I don't care that this is some golden rule of MOBAs; I'd have a game with much fewer characters and more stress on balance instead. Yeah, yeah, I'm a weirdo or fool or idiot or whathaveyou. But my dream is dead and I'm done.
The source being: http://heroes.ingame.de/heroes-of-the-storm/115864#english
And this finally woke me up. Despite the fact that they originally wanted to make a game that wasn't about "shitting on the enemy team" or whatever they said, in the end they still really want to make a LoL clone. Which means every decision is going to revolve around that. Which means we're going pick/ban, which means we're never going to get better gold gain, which means we're going to have a too large hero list. The fact that the heroes weren't instantly free like in DotA 2 should have stopped me. The artifact fiasco should have been the major warning shot. But of course it's this, because I had some delusions of playing this game seriously but unlike everyone else I wanted to wait until there was more in-game support (such as custom games coming back in or just plain being out of alpha first).
I don't want to play an asymmetric character game where outright banning characters away from either side is a major mechanic. That is not why I play asymmetric character games. I don't care that this is some golden rule of MOBAs; I'd have a game with much fewer characters and more stress on balance instead. Yeah, yeah, I'm a weirdo or fool or idiot or whathaveyou. But my dream is dead and I'm done.
Having deep hero pools is an essential component to creating a healthy number of variables, which is exactly what drives good MOBA games to feel unique each time you play a match. Having a pick/ban phase is a necessity, and it was inevitable that HotS would have many heroes in it eventually. Right now HotS has major issues with team compositions being a dice roll. The game simply can't be taken seriously without a pick/ban phase.
Yeah sorry but you are overreacting there.
A draft / ban / pick phase is absolutely necessary for any sort of competitive or ranked played. There is absolutely no possible way to fully balance a game with this many moving elements, and a ban phase is a vital counter to that.
The game needs a large, deep roster, and for 'serious' games and tournaments it needs bans and picks. This is great news from my perspective - and I am the epitomy of a casual player who doesn't have the faintest inclination to play this game seriously or hardcore.
A draft / ban / pick phase is absolutely necessary for any sort of competitive or ranked played. There is absolutely no possible way to fully balance a game with this many moving elements, and a ban phase is a vital counter to that.
The game needs a large, deep roster, and for 'serious' games and tournaments it needs bans and picks. This is great news from my perspective - and I am the epitomy of a casual player who doesn't have the faintest inclination to play this game seriously or hardcore.
Right.
Besides - I am sure you will be able to select which "mode" you want to play in. If Pick/Banning isn't for you - simply play the mode that doesn't utilize it.
I'm *hoping* for a huge hero pool. I'm also *hoping* that when the competitive of ladder aspects of the game are implemented - the map is made available. I've been saying this for awhile. The single reason why I am having a hard time fathoming how the game will be balanced is due to the fact that there are multiple maps. Having the maps pre-known before the pick/ban stage is a good start in working out this theoretical imbalance.
Besides - I am sure you will be able to select which "mode" you want to play in. If Pick/Banning isn't for you - simply play the mode that doesn't utilize it.
I'm *hoping* for a huge hero pool. I'm also *hoping* that when the competitive of ladder aspects of the game are implemented - the map is made available. I've been saying this for awhile. The single reason why I am having a hard time fathoming how the game will be balanced is due to the fact that there are multiple maps. Having the maps pre-known before the pick/ban stage is a good start in working out this theoretical imbalance.
Yeah having a draft system is perfectly fine, and is what any MOBA game needs to make actual pre-made team fights interesting. Relying on random matchmaking mechanics is just not fun, and being able to influence the game's picking meta is a much needed addition.
I will say that there is of course going to be teething problems with any new system. One of those is the current talent system being gated, meaning if my select few heroes get banned/picked, I will be at a disadvantage from the beginning of the game due to having to pick a hero I may not have levelled (but previously purchased).
I will say that there is of course going to be teething problems with any new system. One of those is the current talent system being gated, meaning if my select few heroes get banned/picked, I will be at a disadvantage from the beginning of the game due to having to pick a hero I may not have levelled (but previously purchased).
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Can someone give a short summary on the "artifact fiasco"? I haven't played in a long time but am gonna get back to it today.
League style runes - but bigger stat bonuses. Spend all your gold to get like +40% mana, +15% damage, etc for your heroes. Equipped at character select. Everyone was mad because it's a ridiculously stupid system for this game. They took it out.
They put in LOL runes. Community near unanimously revolted, after LOL/sfxt people know how this works in the end. Artifacts were removed a week later.
Arcanine55
Neo Member
Artifacts are out? I have hopes for this game again.
They got taken out about as quickly as you possibly can in game development land.
Blizzard hasent seen such universal hatred for a feature probably since Real ID.
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