terrisus
Member
I don't recall saying any of that.
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Hey NeoGaffer, you could be a rapist
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
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I don't recall saying any of that.
That's a lot of passive voice.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Statistics is tough.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Valhelm figuring out the motivation to the video has me really excited for where this thread goes now when it comes to victim blaming or the gender politics.
Got any source for that? Reading the guy's tweets there doesn't seem to be some hidden agenda.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Apparently the middling age for girls to be raped is between 16 and 19 (at 4 times the likelihood during any other point in their lives). Is that roughly the case with those you know of, if that's not inappropriate to ask?
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
Certainly wasn't trying to diminish the problem, but had to jump on that mate.
Anyway, from his Youtube description:
"After release: I really wish the purpose of the video wasn't lost behind the misunderstanding of what the mirror and the message on the wall represented. In no way shape or form did I say all men are rapists or say the men who barged in to help were rapists. There's something far deeper in the context and I don't want to openly say what MY vision was behind it because I'd much rather it be discussed amidst the conversation sparked from the video."
Uhuh.
DragonSworne
Banned
Message received. Stop dressing like a rapist and rape will go away.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Of course that guy ended that with "as a lot of people who didn't understand the vision thought." Delusional and pretentious.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I think we can all agree that the video isn't very coherent or well done
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I just think it's unbelievable that someone would criticize a rape statistic like that
I mean rape has always had a history of being under reported. So it just blows my mind that someone would think the statistics were being artificially inflated by included cases that "are not necessarily rape"
User 100115
Banned
Most of the people I know who've been raped were raped as children by family members. So mostly younger than ten :/
I know a few who were raped as teens, by friends or family, and a few who raped as adults, by people they knew.
I don't know anyone who was raped by a stranger.
Paper Sparrow
Member
Yeah, the experiment was ill-conceived on many levels. All this does is make the problem harder to discuss. :/
So what we really learned here is that anyone could be accused of being a covert MRA.
terrisus
Member
The first part of that and the second part of that do not correlate.
And, I also didn't say anything was being "artificially inflated" - although by definition including other non-rape things which have a non-zero chance of happening are going to lead to an increase in the percentage,
Yes, rape is under-reported.
Yes, rape is a huge problem.
But, a statistic showing a rate for combination of 2 things that are rape and 2 things that are not rape is not on its own a statistic for rape.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I wasn't posting a definitive statistics fact. There are thousands of general sites and sources anyone can go to to get similar stats. I just posted the easiest one. Playing a semantics game here is pointless. In the end, a whole lot of women deal with a whole fucking lot of trauma.
terrisus
Member
This is true, of course - and is a horrible thing, and should be addressed.
Of course, there are men who have to "deal with a whole fucking lot of trauma" as well
But, I wasn't "playing a semantics game," I was pointing out an issue with the statistic used and the purpose that it was used for.
Other statistics were posted later, and did a better job of addressing the issue at discussion.
You'll never see them coming.
Delusibeta
Banned
Video in the OP is a fine example of social justice warrioring.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Aw man. Come on.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
So basically anyone alive is also capable of murder, theft etc so we might as well just be suspicious of everyone on the planet.
I am curious how the "1 in 3,5,6" stats translates into percentage of men who commit such crimes. I've ran into some creeps in my day, heard stories from girls. Guys I knew who groped girls passed out at parties, etc. Shit always made me rage but the other disturbing aspect being the guys who would put up with these guys. Like no biggie... Jesus.
At least you tried.
At least you tried.
Paper Sparrow
Member
He probably never thought about it, which is part of the problem in addressing female on male rape. It's commendable that he wants to bring awareness to an issue, but he needed to think it through a little more
Stupid video and only hurts the cause.
Slightly off topic: The moment when I really realized that coercion is basically rape was life changing, I started to realize that so many people I knew had been sexually coerced (including myself, which made me sickened by myself for years) and it really disgusted me. People are terrible to each other, no one deserves to be forced into sex whether physically or through words.
Slightly off topic: The moment when I really realized that coercion is basically rape was life changing, I started to realize that so many people I knew had been sexually coerced (including myself, which made me sickened by myself for years) and it really disgusted me. People are terrible to each other, no one deserves to be forced into sex whether physically or through words.
People deal with a whole lot of trauma, the page you posted is basically just saying life sucks. It's good for people who may not be aware of abuse in general, but in a thread about rape and sexual abuse specifically, it's not very useful because it includes violence of a non sexual nature.
I mean shit, EVERYONE has a shitty odds of being the victim of violence, sexual or otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domest...ates_of_male_victimization_and_reporting_data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence#Epidemiology
No group is immune.
Not really making a grand point, just that it didn't seem like a semantic game to me either, the page you provided has numbers that are not only about what the video in the OP is talking about.
well this wife beater shirt, short pants, and angry scowl are great for running off door-to-door salesmen. They think "not only will I not be able to sell this guy anything, if I go inside his house, he may rob me.... or worse."
Coercion means to persuade by force or threat.
What else did you think rape meant?
I feel like people are misconstruing the word coerce in the 2 current rape related threads. It doesn't mean you can't argue for sex.
User 100115
Banned
Because of education in general, there are a ton of people that aren't aware that rape can happen when it's not violent. Which is why when most people think of a rapist, they think of the back alley stereotype.
The fact that people are getting educated shouldn't be cause to sorta insult them though.
A lot of people seem to think that coerce is broader than that.
Usual conflation of rape and sexual assault. Both are obviously bad, but they aren't the same and the methods that arrive at that figure for sexual assault are suspect.
User 100115
Banned
In some places, according the law, sexual assault is rape, just varying degrees (first, second, third, etc). Lots of states are moving away from using the word rape when in comes to the law, since no one can agree what constitutes rape (the whole 'rape-rape' bullshit)
Exactly, when I was young I never really thought of things like guilting or emotional threats as being related to sexual abuse because I was never taught that it was. I always thought it was despicible but I hadn't made a real tangible connection. I mean I won't say the fact that I've been guilted and humilated and emotionally threatened into sex is as bad as being violently raped, but it certainly did a lot to damage me.
Messofanego
Banned
I'm fine with the text. Rapists aren't some "other" strangers, they're usually someone you know. I can personally confirm that. The mirror is the most blunt and direct way he could address that fact. He used his platform to give out an important message that people still don't realise. To the educated people here, it would be preaching to the choir but to people on youtube, it might not. Rape is not some villainous act that only someone in a mentally unstable state would do.
The execution wasn't ever going to satisfy everyone, and if people want to take it as sexist, that's understandable but I feel distracting.
The execution wasn't ever going to satisfy everyone, and if people want to take it as sexist, that's understandable but I feel distracting.
Atraveller
Banned
The whole thing looks awfully motivational, and the mirror lol.
"This is what a rapist could look like!"
"With some effort put in, you could be a rapist too!!"
"This is what a rapist could look like!"
"With some effort put in, you could be a rapist too!!"
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Yeah this is how I felt about it too, you can tell they all opened the door and looked at the mirror and were just like "yo what the fuck is going on here?"
Especially the first dude, he was ready to lay the smack down you could tell he hyped himself up, he was out for blood, but then he was the rapists.
No one likes to be accused, no one likes to be treated like they're a criminal waiting to get caught.
But whatever, I guess they got the point across.
RAINN casually conflates the two terms though, and at times seems to use them interchangeably. Both rape and sexual assault are terrible, but I don't believe that this conflation serves the intended purpose. While it allows some advocates to paint a picture of an America in which 30 percent of all men are rapists, it also causes others to question what by all means should be an unquestionable agenda. In fact, a smaller minority commits the majority of sexual assault.
Black-Wind
Member
No ...
According to the guy who made it the original message was "You just saved a life" ontop the mirror .. which is strange cause the guys who left could have been trying to get help.
They changed it for the last bit to make a point that "anyone could LOOK like a rapist" for the viewer ...
Not saying they were successful with it or anything but it was not a "You shouldn't help" thing.
googleplex
Member
The patriarchy at work dood.
User 100115
Banned
I don't understand why it's such a big deal to lump the two together when people can't even fucking agree what 'rape-rape' is. Both come from the same motivations. Both are mentally and physically damaging. Both are horrible and occur far to often in modern society. A lot of states, as I said, treat them as the same thing with varying degrees. Just because someone doesn't think it's rape if there is no violence involved doesn't make it any less damaging to the person that was raped.
I'm not entirely sure that's the message. I think it's more "rapists fit no particular demographic."
You have an interesting take. I don't really agree. Rape isn't a villainous act? I get what you mean but I personally think it is. A rapist could otherwise be someone who doesn't appear villainous or unstable, but the act is.
This is how I interpreted it as well. The delivery is easily misinterpreted, unfortunately, but the message is sound.
Rapists are not monstrous "others" who are noticeably different from everyone else, they're ordinary people, even star athletes and acclaimed directors. Understanding this can help people internalize that sexual assault is a serious problem that's closer than they realize.
terrisus
Member
I wouldn't say that.
I think the list makes it very clear that rapists fit a particular demographic.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Rapists HATE him!
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