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Hi. Let's talk about Off-Topic. And Each other.

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
27,926
65,011
2,450
Posting threads on GAF has always been a little intimidating at first.

I felt the same way back in 1999 when I first crossed paths with that incarnation of the forum. I lurked the whole summer, and my first post after registering a few months later in September was (I hope) mature and respectful and substantial...for my 14 years in the world at the time, at least, but I'm sure it tried too hard and said too little (maybe it's in Goodcow's archive; who knows). I respected the community I was joining, is the point, and didn't want to come off as an idiot or an asshole. Bans were definitely strict and swift back then, in a particular context, but if you kept it civil with your fellow member (100% so), you could debate damn near anything with anyone for as long as stubbornness remained in your bones. And if you were a regular, you probably did just that. We hadn't implemented Off-Topic yet, so this was just console wars and the like, but you still had to develop a thick skin as you argued about sales and software and hardware and speculation about everything, without subsection echo chamber "safe spaces" like most forums split their sections into. No, everyone was thrown into one pit on the deep end and had to just figure out how to behave with all types of folks from around the world, from all backgrounds, age ranges, and respective ties to video games. Just a small, tight knit group, but all the same we had hardcore gamers, press, and industry intermingling concurrently in almost every thread; eclectic characters like Deadmeat and Fafalada and the Gaming-Age staff writers (who were the forum admins originally), the latter of whom in many cases moved onward and upward in the games press or industry after leaving G-A. Gaming-Age was just a little fan site covering the typical news and reviews, with a side forum of some note, but those years were all crucial to the trajectories for everyone involved. Gaming-Age co-founder Sam Kennedy went on to start 1up, Patrick Klepek is over at Vice News/Waypoint these days instead of sneaking his way into E3 to guerrilla cover it as a minor, and lots of other folks on that original G-A staff ended up with notable roles to play across the Video Games space.

Me, too, I suppose, though through completely different avenues: the little forum attached to that thing. That's a long story, but the gist is dot-com bubble burst and hurt ad revenue, Gaming-Age and its forum were apparently sharing a server and the forum was using more resources than the "main" site was, but generating little revenue for the trouble. My understanding is that Jim Cordeira felt that his responsibility was to the news/reviews site primarily since he'd been entrusted with it by the other co-founders, and forums are awful server resource hogs and are notoriously difficult to monetize with ads compared to just about any type of site you'll find on the interwebs (and that was prior to adblock and NeoGAF's current 80%+ adblock rate to contend with, mind). The forum was comparatively small and made no money and apparently was causing trouble sharing server space with the other stuff, so it was a pragmatic call at the time. Jim found a home for the community on the soon to be defunct IGN Snowboards platform and set up a smooth, if short-lived, community migration there. Despite being an obnoxious 14-15 year old kid I had built a rapport with the folks like Hitokage (rip) who were doing the actual forum-running behind the scenes (the G-A staff were all granted admin status but were not regularly involved in any forum concerns aside from one or two), and I stepped up consistently to face the challenges of keeping afloat a small nomadic group of worthwhile bastards...somewhere, somehow, since standalone forums were just plain doomed in most cases, and we had effectively become one at that point.

This was all purely volunteer work for me and Hitokage and the rest of the folks who helped with that migration and the ones to follow from 2000-2004. The arrangements were all made from the lowest possible negotiating position on our side. We needed somewhere to hog a bunch of server resources and not produce much ad revenue in return, and had no money. Infinite leverage! Nonetheless, the community and the discussions and the identity of "GAF" mattered to me and a lot of other folks, so we figured it out somehow. A few more migrations after Snowboards died and with increasingly dire day to day circumstances on the forum, the database shit itself, the company that provided the server in exchange for running ads never responded and apparently quietly folded shortly thereafter, and I stubbornly charged ahead to figure out some way to save "GAF" despite the entire database -- posts, users, etc. -- realdeathing on the spot, without us ever having been provided SSH access to the server to, say, I dunno, allow us to back things up every now and again. It was a shitshow and the bad ads the provider filled the site with made it borderline unusable when it was miraculous enough to even load a page thanks to the underpowered box, and it also crashed completely any time we hit a load spike from some breaking news in the games industry. So...perpetual state of shitting itself, with little hope of improvement, directly into death. Fun!

Anyway, despite standalone forums being inherently ultra doomed to start with, despite our server provider loading the site with the worst possible pop-ups and malware ads to maximize profit that we obviously didn't see a dime of (which had understandably pissed everyone in the userbase off and stagnated growth terribly due to poor overall usability), and despite the entire forum database corrupting and requiring us to start from scratch when the Doom came to 2004's GameSquad GAF...despite so many short-lived and increasingly bleak migrations under our belts one after the other to even reach that new tier of suck, $0 in my bank account on a good day while I worked retail 30-50 hours a week retail with an hour commute each way AND did full time CC on top, paying my own way from a starting point of poverty and all, so no magic wands in the inventory to cast Not Completely Fucked and Hopeless...

I shot down anyone in IRC who suggested giving up and moving on. Which was just about everyone, haha. We were all weary, no one had the cash to front to get our own dedicated server running and buy the necessary software licenses and all that, and we lacked a complete set of skills to do so even if we could. The clock was ticking, since that was still perhaps the Golden Age of message boards despite the issues with paying the bills and even landing a reputable ad provider whatsoever, so you only had a week or two before your community would move on and find a new home at one of a thousand other spots and not likely look back too hard.

I've told this story before, but I say this all now because, when I look back at why I was so passionate and stubborn and determined about this relatively inconsequential video game message board continuing to exist during that critical week in 2004, I can see why I gave a damn, mobilized everything in my power to see it stick around, and eventually dropped regular life for doing forum-running as a career when that crossroads presented a couple years farther down. GAF was one of many, many forums, and running a forum isn't anything special in and of itself, but GAF was distinct in tone, cultivated with intent by leadership being there to care about it and steer it, with all the rules and policies and bans and all that operating as an extension of what you try to do from the top down for the sake of the end result:

The vibe, which is what will either bring folks flooding to the registration gates to the point where you have to implement a several month waiting list and all sorts of other hoops to jump through to keep everything manageable, or just leave you with shuttered doors eventually, as most have already.

Either way, I've always thought of it as something vaguely like running a bar or social club. You're at the whims of your patrons in many ways, but there's always something that can be done to nudge and shape it at any given time, working toward that ideal resultant vibe in your mind. Your disposition matters greatly, but you can't always play diplomat and get a positive outcome. Sometimes a hard declaration and bans against the inevitable outrage pushback are necessary in the grand scheme, and sometimes that's done deliberately, especially in emergency interventions. See: "den of cunts" thread back in the day to pull back from tone-deaf censorship that had emerged in the moderation while I was backpacking around; or jumping into various powderkeg threads post-election in the past year in off-topic to say something...err, moderating, since no one else was willing, and then take the dozen account suicides back at me in response and gain another group of internet people with too much time on their hands and a new least favorite person in the world to seethe and plot over, whether I was apparently betraying The Left or The Right or Whatever the Fuck at any given time.

Receiving the bulk of the inevitable and standard hatred and obsession that's generated by a very large message board every day, personally, when you run a place like this...isn't fun, obviously, but it's part of the responsibility I took on and that's okay and I get compensated for it. It takes its toll over time, no matter what, but I've tried to have fun with things in my own way, like lightly trolling people here and there, or being responsible for nearly all the (hopefully) humorous and unattributed thread title changes over the years. Recent events, though: mainstream media scandal, mass exodus and mass account suicide (often carried out as maliciously as possible in attempts to harm the site on the way out), awful hate speech directed at me personally, what felt like the whole world using its internet outrage mechanism to tear me to shreds in the span of an overwhelming 24-48 hours, and the majority of my community apparently neither wanting me here nor thinking I provided anything of value at the helm...

Phew.

Inevitably, you reevaluate the "why" from way back in 2004 and apply it to the present. Why keep at it when the thing you're "supposed" to do is step down regardless of the facts instead of carrying forward, and you made NeoGAF the handsomest and most successful forum of its kind from just a handful of regulars as the seed community and a couple grand in grassroots fundraising, sprinkled with ongoing hard work and a steady enough hand....and belief that I was doing something worthwhile, I suppose, echoing back to my first thoughts about '99 GAF and onward.

Well...is there still something worthwhile to do? Is there still meaning to be doing this? A whole lot of people seem to like the sparkly animated gif with the "EVILORE RETIRE BITCH" in all caps these days, at least last I looked on Twitter, which is as little as possible.

Should I retire? Trolling gif mainly used to avoid getting your Twitter account suspended for telling me to kill myself or w/e while conveying the same general idea, sure, but retirement would be pleasant and it's certainly an uphill battle after being falsely #metooed and scandalized on an international mainstream level and experiencing our first major community splintering ever. The instant, overwhelming hatred directed at me from within my community and subsequent attempts to tear the site apart by its own members wounded me in ways you may not be able to fully appreciate if you haven't been running NeoGAF for half your life. That was different from all the gossip or misanthropy elsewhere, which I'm accustomed to. So, I'm wounded and all that jazz.

But no. The present isn't it.

*Last year*, before October's Facebook Fuckery, is when I wanted to retire, frankly. After the 2016 US election, amid the overwhelming, perpetual negativity and sensationalism about politics here, I was also treated as the Affluent White Cis Straight Male, aka The Enemy, by default to a *lot* of folks here all of a sudden, no matter the substance of my words or the actions I took to back them up. That's not the GAF I signed up for or the vibe I tried to cultivate. I wrote the rules here, but I wrote them with a specific intent to keep open dialogue possible but respectful no matter how fervent the disagreement, not to build this bizarre and impenetrable echo chamber of militant hostility and endless oppression olympics about privilege. We. Don't. Truly. Know. Each. Other.

As per gaming roots here and so forth, I wasn't too pleased with how the Xbox Live generation caustically treated...well, anything and everything they could identify different about someone over a mic, really. And then I went to E3, and then I saw video game studios...oh god. So I had lots of motivation about wanting to do right by our members here....men, women, cis, trans, whatever ethnicity or melanin count or whatever, shouldn't preclude being able to participate fairly like anyone else in the big thrashing ball pit of thoughts and ideas here. The wonderful thing about the internet is how you can set up shop, set whatever rules up, have the authority to enforce the rules, and....see what happens. Again, much operating a real world social space, you aim for a vibe, try to cultivate it, and try to do right by the people who come populate it and act as decent human beings whenever possible, which is all too easily a misplaced toolkit right when we all hop on the internet. The rules here are easy. What comes next may be hard for the folks who haven't dipped their toes into the water yet, but only briefly.

After Brexit and the 2016 US Election and some good ol' fashioned mass forum sabotage by an ex-admin especially, the Off-Topic community here was poisoned beyond recovery, perhaps. Maybe if I had done more at the time, but it's hard to say. Regardless, I didn't feel welcome at the helm of this ship anymore, maybe something akin to Bret Weinstein being chased around Evergreen campus by angry mobs waiting for one false move or an indication of "microaggressions" to do whatever intended deed to oust him. The rudder broke, most of the mod team was super weary and many had openly intended to resign "once things calmed down" from the post-election radicalization and emerging open hostility here. Then "once things calmed down" exploded into the biggest scandal possible instead, alas.

Good ol' #metoo. Made up story, actionable evidence to discredit it, legal case organized in that first month to formally clear the air...yeah, completely pointless to have even devoted energy or resources to defending myself. You're not allowed to be innocent in a #metoo. That powderkeg was going to explode one way or another, either by a blindsiding Facebook post or something manufactured by interested parties or what have you, and I was so deep in depression and PTSD over the course of 2017 that I don't know how much more of the misery and hostility parade I could've survived logging into GAF each morning anyway. I was not hanging on too well. That scandal was a horrible thing to go through on a personal level, at among my all-time weakest on top of that, and I'm still pretty banged up emotionally by it all and everything else in the lead-up to it that put me in such a bleak headspace.

But that's personally. Personally, forum operators are fucked regardless, right? How many counterparts in this industry do I have left, still keeping it indie and running things directly for that matter? On a personal level, this crap wears on you. That's why you'll see me troll or act snarky sometimes or toss diplomacy. Some of it's calculated for effect (just about guaranteed I'm baiting in service of the wider scope of intent if I'm being needlessly confrontational etc., like when I pushed for a moderating influence on #metoo right before I got #metooed, lol) , but some of it is just...staying sane, too, as I close in on two decades behind the helm here.

Professionally, though, it's a different matter entirely. While I did have to go so far as to hire contractors on duty 24/7 for a month to keep hundreds and hundreds of malicious spam/porn/etc. attacks sent our way from our exceedingly honorable and virtuous, noble, infallibly righteous ex-members over at Reset, so those...individuals...wouldn't have the power to completely destroy NeoGAF on the spot in November with that bombardment (in between encouraging me to kill myself, threatening me, blah blah blah, of course, for good measure; fine lot), and I did need some time to center myself and decide who to trust and assemble a heroic team and a fresh gameplan....

...as far as I'm concerned, NeoGAF Off-Topic has been given a desperately needed enema. A ResetEnema, if you will. I care little about that site one way or another, aside from how it ended up serving that purpose quite well.

What drew me to that incarnation of GAF in 1999 and prompted me to join enthusiastically, then become a volunteer admin for the community, then step up to run this joint when no one else wanted it or thought it could be salvaged? Mmm. I saw GAF as a Babylon 5 of sorts, where devs and press and gamers argued about things on relatively neutral ground, and appeals to authority didn't tend to accomplish much. You were as good as the content of your message and the inevitable defense of it, to withstand from this bright and savvy and weird group of very different people who'd keep you on your toes and impart some of their knowledge, too, if you kept your ego in check and listened on occasion on your end. Yeah, and I liked video games, too, and I've taken the concept of not splitting everything down into platform-specific sub-sections very seriously despite the thousandfold growth, since that big ball pit we all have to dive into to talk about video games is only a safe space for sound arguments and supporting evidence, not a safe space for however Nintendo or Sony makes you feel in your privates. As we continue to rebuild this place, consider why NeoGAF was special to begin with as a gaming forum and why I fought so damned hard to save it back in 2004,. Let's reflect on what transpired here on Off-Topic across 2017 by contrast.

You must exit your comfort zone and talk to people of different worldviews and politics and preferences, say what you have to say, and get along with each other at the end of the day, because in this place you are surrounded by people who are different. This is a very international forum, and your life experiences won't match the next user's. Your culture won't match the next user's. Your current struggles won't match the next user's. Take a deep breath, stop assuming everything someone's typing is "disingenuous" and consider engaging in earnest regardless, stay respectful because I FUCKING INSIST, for starters, and also because how you react reflects on your character, not just their outbound verbiage reflecting on them in whatever way you think it does.

It used to be that getting along in one giant shared ball pit was the seemingly insurmountable battle against entropy slash awesome unique selling point for NeoGAF's Gaming side, but where Gaming barely needs any proactive moderation these days to maintain its intended vibe, Off-Topic experienced catastrophic failure to an unprecedented degree in this community's history.

I'm back at the helm properly, motivated and with purpose, and our load has been lightened enough to get that rudder functioning as it should. My sysadmin squad and mod team are hand-picked and here for the sake of NeoGAF's future, likewise. That Gaming Side vibe we managed somehow, despite all the stratification across hardware "teams" by default and this idea of "winning" that always accompanies it..........let all that go here on Off-Topic, too, not inhumanly so, but as much as you're able in order to have a conversation in earnest with someone you may have prejudged as on the "opposing team." I have been doing so with my recent posts, attempting to better reconcile my online interactions with how I act toward people in real life.........................and nothing scary has happened, just conversation and occasional insight.

Act like you would meeting a mix of new and old faces at the bar, some visiting from out of town, and a few drinks later you find out what everyone's politics roughly look like. I'm assuming you don't duel them to the death or try to ruin their life by way of viral social media outrage campaign. Since you're not doing that. Either way, I don't care who you are, I don't care what your chromosomes show or what dangly bits you have or who you do or don't share beds with, or your melanin count or your level of education or where you were born, just about. It's all good. Overwhelmingly more important is simply the content you send outbound to our servers and the consideration that went into it, along with your behavior toward the other members of the community as you take part, especially when in disagreement or confrontation. There is no echo chamber police anymore, as you can see. There is just moderation, and moderation -- like moderate -- is not a dirty word.

I want you to be comfortable being "you" here if you so desire in terms of identity (unless your identity revolves around gassing Ze Jews or toppling Ze Imperialist Regime or whatever; be chill), without unprompted hatred or harassment in response as per the rules we've had here since day 1, but I also fundamentally don't give much of a shit about what persona you're presenting on my video game message board since there are fake people abound in real life, never mind on this crazy-ass wild west internet. Aside from the uncommon instances in which we do know each other (or, in many cases, where one party may think they "know" the other party...cough), we're all strangers from around the world, connected by some common interests or the threads of fate (aka fiber optics), and tasked with...well, what are we tasked with, here on off-topic? It bears asking that question, too.

I think...we're tasked with shooting the shit, learning from each other along the way when possible, having fun, sharing experiences and navigating the bullshit that constitutes modern life, while striving for positive outcomes all around. I, for one, am done with misery and hate. Had my fill for one lifetime.

Share this fresh heading with me and my team, and Off-Topic's intended vibe won't be too far beyond the horizon. We're already en route.

Thanks.

-Tyler
 

TTOOLL

Member
Mar 22, 2012
4,571
4,092
870
That's quite a history you have here, really.

I've said this before and I don't mind repeating myself, we are MUCH better now, healthier and happier.

One thing I would like to see back though, and maybe you could try contacting/inviting them directly, is to have people from the industry back at GAF. I'm no gamer anymore but it would be nice. I think the atmosphere here became too heavy for them and so they left.

Gaming was nowhere as toxic as OT was, but we still had a lot of useless discussion based on social justice that put unnecessary weight on professionals that participated on here. I also miss the leaks prior to E3, I believe you had to be "bish approved" or other bullshit like it at some point or you would be banned for posting leaks. That shit was terrible imo, let people post whatever they like, as long as it's posted as a rumor.

My point with this last part is that you guys tried to control things too much (banned links and websites are other kinds of bullshit we had/have here) and it hit you back because some people just CANNOT have power at their hands...

My father has always said to me something his old boss used to tell him, "give power to a person and one will reveal one's true self". It happened here.
 
May 2, 2006
11,970
309
1,235
I remember in the 24 hours after the election the forum seemed collectively stunned and started questioning the prevailing mentality. Then our perpetually angry members went on a crusade against moderates and made things even more hostile here.
 

appaws

Banned
Jan 31, 2008
3,279
2,484
1,335
Taylorsville, Ky!
Thanks EL...and I am enjoying the smaller but friendlier atmosphere. People still debate, but it is just more civil. Even in the gun control thread we can disagree without crazy emotionalism.
 

TrainedRage

Boss Blue Balls
Feb 3, 2018
9,038
13,932
1,080
35
USA
"...as far as I'm concerned, NeoGAF Off-Topic has been given a desperately needed enema. A ResetEnema, if you will. I care little about that site one way or another, aside from how it ended up serving that purpose quite well." - EL

This made my day! Thanks for giving someone who lurked for years (afraid to post) a little insight into the behind the scenes. I saw it all happen, and I saw how GAF became much better. Props to you Evilore, you have shown true concern for the forum and have 'stuck to your guns' even when the vocal minority wanted to cut off your balls. Cheers!
 

Vinsanity.

Member
Apr 29, 2012
1,482
19
600
Dude, Tyler. This site needed to excise a ton of garbage, and it is a better place for it. I'm on the other site as well, and OT there is a complete rotten cesspool of political echoing. You either believe what they believe, or you get completely dogpiled until a mod warns or bans you. I avoid posting in OT threads there, it is a complete mess...and the mods are having to constantly babysit every political thread. There are so many mod bans with the stated reason as "disingenuous posting" that it isn't even funny. That is their fallback crutch for anyone that doesn't agree with the masses...they must be "posting disingenuously".

It's the exact same dogpile that happened here to you. You either agreed with the masses and left NeoGAF to join the echo chamber on another site...or you're obviously a monster if you stay here. It's sad really..
 
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synchronicity

Member
Dec 16, 2011
4,171
3,961
900
You must exit your comfort zone and talk to people of different worldviews and politics and preferences, say what you have to say, and get along with each other at the end of the day, because in this place you are surrounded by people who are different. This is a very international forum, and your life experiences won't match the next user's. Your culture won't match the next user's. Your current struggles won't match the next user's. Take a deep breath, stop assuming everything someone's typing is "disingenuous" and consider engaging in earnest regardless, stay respectful...
-Tyler

Completely agree. Our differences make life more interesting, besides. Personally, I prefer to interact with those who don't think like me. (I'm not saying I won't argue, but I love being forced to think in new ways.) Not that I have a problem with myself ;) but life is so much richer when you extend your borders and challenge your preconceptions - challenge yourself. I married outside my race, outside my national borders, outside my native language for this reason, among other avenues where I attempt to continually deconstruct my assumptions and realize the prison of rigidity. The world is an interesting and amazing place if we're willing to step outside the door of ourselves.
 
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Corrik

Member
Jan 20, 2018
1,647
1,063
555
Pittsburgh
Such a long read. Lol

That said, unfortunately most forum goers are just on the left. Which is not a bad thing, but it makes forums that cater to an echo chamber for the side more attractive to them. Most people do not want to debate their sides. They want to be right and hear they are right. They want to unite against a common enemy, pat each other's on the back, and "fight the good fight". You see that now in the offshoot.

My question for you is. How do you attract a sizeable base of membership without that type of catering to an echo chamber? As you see now, your userbase here is dwarfed significantly by the offshoot and even forums like GameFAQs. I want to discuss things all the time, but I cannot even create topics and frankly, this board is not very quickly moving at times.

Have you considered changing the topic posting requirements somewhat? You are trying to bring in new users to replenish your ranks while denying a lot of them the right to make topics to discuss things. I know when I first rejoined here (from way back long ago). I was confused as hell to your setup. I signed up but wasn't allowed to post at all. Then I was allowed to post a little bit with moderator approval of my messages. Now I can post some but cannot post topics.

This is a lot of hoops you expect a new member to jump through. It works when you have a selective recruiting process because your membership is so high. Is it a process you wish to have now? In an age where you can sign up and post on other boards with as much as a sign up? How many of your new members are you losing through confusion or from too many hurdles to participate? And how is it hurting traffic and conversation here?

Why should someone want to come here over say Reddit?

I am interested in what your vision truly is to replenish the site. Changing the moderating habits is a good turn. But, how do you intend to open the site up to grow? Relying on people to come back who are not okay with the moderating habits isn't going to work long term. I knew quite a few people on the other site who straight up say they are on the right and just specifically avoid all the topics there dealing anything with politics to not get banned because they enjoy the gaming forums flow and communities.

How do you intend to replenish those?
 

Musky_Cheese

Banned
Oct 23, 2016
9,445
20,835
1,185
Such a long read. Lol

That said, unfortunately most forum goers are just on the left. Which is not a bad thing, but it makes forums that cater to an echo chamber for the side more attractive to them. Most people do not want to debate their sides. They want to be right and hear they are right. They want to unite against a common enemy, pat each other's on the back, and "fight the good fight". You see that now in the offshoot.

My question for you is. How do you attract a sizeable base of membership without that type of catering to an echo chamber? As you see now, your userbase here is dwarfed significantly by the offshoot and even forums like GameFAQs. I want to discuss things all the time, but I cannot even create topics and frankly, this board is not very quickly moving at times.

Have you considered changing the topic posting requirements somewhat? You are trying to bring in new users to replenish your ranks while denying a lot of them the right to make topics to discuss things. I know when I first rejoined here (from way back long ago). I was confused as hell to your setup. I signed up but wasn't allowed to post at all. Then I was allowed to post a little bit with moderator approval of my messages. Now I can post some but cannot post topics.

This is a lot of hoops you expect a new member to jump through. It works when you have a selective recruiting process because your membership is so high. Is it a process you wish to have now? In an age where you can sign up and post on other boards with as much as a sign up? How many of your new members are you losing through confusion or from too many hurdles to participate? And how is it hurting traffic and conversation here?

Why should someone want to come here over say Reddit?

I am interested in what your vision truly is to replenish the site. Changing the moderating habits is a good turn. But, how do you intend to open the site up to grow? Relying on people to come back who are not okay with the moderating habits isn't going to work long term. I knew quite a few people on the other site who straight up say they are on the right and just specifically avoid all the topics there dealing anything with politics to not get banned because they enjoy the gaming forums flow and communities.

How do you intend to replenish those?
I would like Evilore and company to consider allowing (case by case) Gaffers who prove they aren’t here to cause issues but are not above the post count necessary, to be able to create threads.
 

Corrik

Member
Jan 20, 2018
1,647
1,063
555
Pittsburgh
I would like Evilore and company to consider allowing (case by case) Gaffers who prove they aren’t here to cause issues but are not above the post count necessary, to be able to create threads.
Why not allow them from the start but the first ten or so topics created have to be okayed but a moderator first before being posted just like your initial ten posts?
 

llien

Member
Feb 1, 2017
9,564
7,527
935
Why not allow them from the start but the first ten or so topics created have to be okayed but a moderator first before being posted just like your initial ten posts?
Well, sure, why not.

Anyhow, here is another practical alternative.
 

KevinKeene

Banned
Jan 22, 2018
1,485
1,217
310
Germany
Have you considered changing the topic posting requirements somewhat?

He just did :)
Changed from 300 postings and 3 months to 100 postings and 1 month. That's an okay 'time of proof' I'd say.

Also 3 more days until I can create threads ;p
 

Kielbasa

Neo Member
Apr 24, 2017
49
1
130
Look Tyler it would be great if you would make ammends by freeing Borys and Kosma, who where wrongly executed by your former staff. Not Dennis though.
 

weemadarthur

Member
Feb 27, 2012
3,598
0
410
In what sense does self admittedly trolling one's own business show one's professionalism? Is there an intention to change that behavior going forward?

Also, what plans are there for the future of the forum if it should turn out that the larger number of users preferred the environment created by the referenced ex-admin? Perhaps to have an environment pleasing the majority of the currently most active users? Would love to know this.
Thank you.
 

TrainedRage

Boss Blue Balls
Feb 3, 2018
9,038
13,932
1,080
35
USA
Quoting this for new members. I feel like its a fine length. We dont need a wave of Alt accounts spamming the board with OT OP's.

He just did :)
Changed from 300 postings and 3 months to 100 postings and 1 month. That's an okay 'time of proof' I'd say.

Also 3 more days until I can create threads ;p
 

TrainedRage

Boss Blue Balls
Feb 3, 2018
9,038
13,932
1,080
35
USA
In what sense does self admittedly trolling one's own business show one's professionalism? Is there an intention to change that behavior going forward?

Also, what plans are there for the future of the forum if it should turn out that the larger number of users preferred the environment created by the referenced ex-admin? Perhaps to have an environment pleasing the majority of the currently most active users? Would love to know this.
Thank you.
Did you even read the OP? You are welcome to go to ResetEra if you feel like that's your "preferred environment". Many people including myself and the owner of the site find it much better now.... After the purge. And why should EL have to explain his business choices to you? Does he owe you something?
 

Corrik

Member
Jan 20, 2018
1,647
1,063
555
Pittsburgh
He just did :)
Changed from 300 postings and 3 months to 100 postings and 1 month. That's an okay 'time of proof' I'd say.

Also 3 more days until I can create threads ;p
This is not true. I am over 100 posts and a month and still cannot make topics.

Edit: That is weird. I couldn't just yesterday. Now I can all the sudden. So, uh, I guess it is changed now.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
27,926
65,011
2,450
Such a long read. Lol

Bad case of insomnia + keyboard = rambling musings. Apologies for the tremendous effort expended in reading my message board post. I hope you manage a full recovery, in time.

That said, unfortunately most forum goers are just on the left. Which is not a bad thing, but it makes forums that cater to an echo chamber for the side more attractive to them. Most people do not want to debate their sides. They want to be right and hear they are right. They want to unite against a common enemy, pat each other's on the back, and "fight the good fight". You see that now in the offshoot.

Yes, well, for the people who can handle leaving their bubble and hearing scary different worldviews and live to tell the tale afterwards, they'll know where they can go. If there's no interest in that kind of environment, then...it'll die, like any forum without an audience? NeoGAF's recovering quite well, though, so you needn't shed any tears at the prospect.

My question for you is. How do you attract a sizeable base of membership without that type of catering to an echo chamber? As you see now, your userbase here is dwarfed significantly by the offshoot and even forums like GameFAQs. I want to discuss things all the time, but I cannot even create topics and frankly, this board is not very quickly moving at times.

Off-Topic is still too slow to refresh frequently with new things to read every second, yeah, but the posting activity level is ramping up smoothly and steadily on both sides. Doing things properly takes time and care, and my priority is first toward cultivating a worthwhile environment here to serve as a strong (and distinct) foundation. I have some experience with this foruming stuff, after all. Honor and shame are huge parts of it.

NeoGAF's traffic has doubled in the last 30 days and continues to trend consistently upward in healthy recovery. Registrations/day are increasing steadily, posts/day, etc. Our current vetting process is much more streamlined (and will be expanded upon as we continue to roll out new features), and the new folks coming in seem reasonable and compatible with desired outcomes here, which follows the stated priorities.

"It's a big internet," as I've been keen on saying in these discussions about Reset this and that, and it goes both ways. NeoGAF still has tens of millions of readers, but only had like 20-30k regular participants, many of whom left and torched the joint on the way out. Do the math on how many existing readers need to convert to participants for everything to be bustling again. There's no concern about the current or future traffic levels, particularly, just about doing things the right way.

NeoGAF does not need to court Reset's audience to recover, and won't. We're largely indifferent about you posting on other forums and the same goes for that one. I don't visit it, personally, but I hear some of the mods there are folks I personally vetoed from our mod nomination process for clearly lacking suitable disposition to be a moderator...so I'm sure it's lovely there. By all means...

Have you considered changing the topic posting requirements somewhat? You are trying to bring in new users to replenish your ranks while denying a lot of them the right to make topics to discuss things. I know when I first rejoined here (from way back long ago). I was confused as hell to your setup. I signed up but wasn't allowed to post at all. Then I was allowed to post a little bit with moderator approval of my messages. Now I can post some but cannot post topics.

This is a lot of hoops you expect a new member to jump through. It works when you have a selective recruiting process because your membership is so high. Is it a process you wish to have now? In an age where you can sign up and post on other boards with as much as a sign up? How many of your new members are you losing through confusion or from too many hurdles to participate? And how is it hurting traffic and conversation here?

You're operating with outdated info, and you appear to be a full Member at the moment with thread creation privileges. Moving on.

Why should someone want to come here over say Reddit?

Ask that same question retroactively and then ask yourself why NeoGAF has grown steadily every year since its inception to eventually dominate its vertical while Reddit's existed alongside it doing its thing just fine too this entire time.

Different format. Different curation. Different communities. Different use cases. Reddit's still a useful resource for almost anyone, though.

I am interested in what your vision truly is to replenish the site. Changing the moderating habits is a good turn. But, how do you intend to open the site up to grow? Relying on people to come back who are not okay with the moderating habits isn't going to work long term. I knew quite a few people on the other site who straight up say they are on the right and just specifically avoid all the topics there dealing anything with politics to not get banned because they enjoy the gaming forums flow and communities.

How do you intend to replenish those?

Purely through dumb luck, just like last time.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
13,790
22,584
1,200
I like TV/Movie news of OT, this is the main reason I visit it, however as everyones noticed gaming has been really quiet lately as devs are busy working away before the next gameshow commences (E3) so I've also been going into other threads I don't usually.

Community sections though I rarely ever visit, I understand their purpose but they're not for me.

Why not allow them from the start but the first ten or so topics created have to be okayed but a moderator first before being posted just like your initial ten posts?

Yea, or even just a mod checking out who is posting reasonably and upgrade them.
More people with posting abilities the better at this point.
 

shpankey

not an idiot
Jun 6, 2004
10,628
81
1,655
Ok.
The volume will come. I'm personally not worried about that aspect at all. I want to see us maintain the high level of quality in discussions and debate, mostly. I'd rather read a couple of intellectuals posts debating a topic in earnest, expounding on their points than a million: "I agree, me too, etc" posts, and right now, we have that. In fact, I'm more blown away than ever, now that everyone feels free to discuss openly with the level of debate here than possible ever before.

Don't get me wrong, I love the "reactionary" threads too, for stuff like e3 reveals, but as long as we are moving in the right direction numbers wise, and we clearly are, along w/ keeping this solid base of great posters, and open discussion format, I will continue on loving gaf as always.

ps. some of my favorite people to read here are people I disagree with on one thing or another. Hell, I cherish the fact I get to debate w/ them on some things. Sometimes I don't even feel worthy of it, and many times they move my needle on a given subject. Try it sometime, it's a pretty damn cool thing.
 
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Blam

Member
Jun 7, 2016
6,115
1,108
810
That's quite a history you have here, really.

I've said this before and I don't mind repeating myself, we are MUCH better now, healthier and happier.

One thing I would like to see back though, and maybe you could try contacting/inviting them directly, is to have people from the industry back at GAF. I'm no gamer anymore but it would be nice. I think the atmosphere here became too heavy for them and so they left.

Gaming was nowhere as toxic as OT was, but we still had a lot of useless discussion based on social justice that put unnecessary weight on professionals that participated on here. I also miss the leaks prior to E3, I believe you had to be "bish approved" or other bullshit like it at some point or you would be banned for posting leaks. That shit was terrible imo, let people post whatever they like, as long as it's posted as a rumor.

My point with this last part is that you guys tried to control things too much (banned links and websites are other kinds of bullshit we had/have here) and it hit you back because some people just CANNOT have power at their hands...

My father has always said to me something his old boss used to tell him, "give power to a person and one will reveal one's true self". It happened here.

Yes it's a much healthier site, I mean I can already see the people doing the whole first page as one word posts. Because that's what it was. Sure first poster might have 10000 messages, but probably nearly none of them would have contributed to a thread. Now that's a lot different story. Industry people are still here, but not as many. Stinkles still here, and the indie thread could probably attract some more people.

Thankfully I'd assume not the case this time around. Not to cause some drama, but I did hear that at a certain point they started adding mods because they were PoC, and because they had friends up there.
 
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Kadayi

Probable Replicant & GIF PIMP
Oct 10, 2012
11,988
15,151
1,225
Discord : Kadayi#0650
Definitely noticed an increase in traffic and threads over the last month or so. I think the most notable absence for me is the big TV threads of old.
 

Broseybrose

Member
Dec 5, 2007
3,015
87
1,065
Ozarks MO
I appreciate the history lesson and the feelings behind it. I think most long-time members are still recovering. The enema was a good thing.

I am also glad to hear that GAF is growing again. Let's head toward another Golden Age.

But... today's climate and my very recent experiences on OT, in combination with your insistence to stay respectful leaves me with an honest question...

If a particular user comes back and challenges my position on an issue or even challenges me as a person, and I then thoroughly destroy their counter-argument, and they then proceed to act like nothing of import happened... How am I supposed to respect them when they will not even acknowledge that they just lost a debate? At that point I respectfully point out the fact that they lost and try and move on.

But do I genuinely have any respect for that person anymore? No.

For me, it is not technically about winning or losing, it is about establishing what is true (or which side of the argument is closest to it), and having debates/discussions in good faith. Something I see becoming increasingly common, not just on GAF, is the loser either dodging the fact that they lost, or arbitrarily changing the point of contention, ie not debating in good faith.

Nowadays it is increasingly difficult to grasp what the truth of a situation is. I think this is where moderation can possibly step in and point out that there was, in fact, a clear winner and loser, or that the loser is no longer arguing in good faith, forcing the loser to acknowledge the facts of the matter if they wish to continue in the discussion. Just an idea. Probably a terrible one, as Ive never done anything close to moderating a forum.

How do you think situations like this should be handled? Both from a user's perspective and moderator's perspective?
 

weemadarthur

Member
Feb 27, 2012
3,598
0
410
Did you even read the OP? You are welcome to go to ResetEra if you feel like that's your "preferred environment". Many people including myself and the owner of the site find it much better now.... After the purge. And why should EL have to explain his business choices to you? Does he owe you something?
He wrote a post explaining his business choices, and I asked for more information in order to make informed decisions. Does he owe me that? Possibly; his post included a few stories that made me want data, certainly. Will he provide a personalized response? Unnecessary; I see that he addressed one of my points, up a few posts. The other points I do still question, but if he does not answer, so be it.

Do you, Trained Rage, have insight into the questions I asked? You seem oddly hostile toward me and I don't believe we have ever interacted, so I am befuddled attempting to account for it.
 

TrainedRage

Boss Blue Balls
Feb 3, 2018
9,038
13,932
1,080
35
USA
He wrote a post explaining his business choices, and I asked for more information in order to make informed decisions. Does he owe me that? Possibly; his post included a few stories that made me want data, certainly. Will he provide a personalized response? Unnecessary; I see that he addressed one of my points, up a few posts. The other points I do still question, but if he does not answer, so be it.

Do you, Trained Rage, have insight into the questions I asked? You seem oddly hostile toward me and I don't believe we have ever interacted, so I am befuddled attempting to account for it.
Come on dude you were being pretty facetious. And I did give you insight. You asked...
if it should turn out that the larger number of users preferred the environment created by the referenced ex-admin?
and I said....
You are welcome to go to ResetEra if you feel like that's your "preferred environment".
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
5,733
10,370
910
I appreciate the history lesson and the feelings behind it. I think most long-time members are still recovering. The enema was a good thing.

I am also glad to hear that GAF is growing again. Let's head toward another Golden Age.

But... today's climate and my very recent experiences on OT, in combination with your insistence to stay respectful leaves me with an honest question...

If a particular user comes back and challenges my position on an issue or even challenges me as a person, and I then thoroughly destroy their counter-argument, and they then proceed to act like nothing of import happened... How am I supposed to respect them when they will not even acknowledge that they just lost a debate? At that point I respectfully point out the fact that they lost and try and move on.

But do I genuinely have any respect for that person anymore? No.

For me, it is not technically about winning or losing, it is about establishing what is true (or which side of the argument is closest to it), and having debates/discussions in good faith. Something I see becoming increasingly common, not just on GAF, is the loser either dodging the fact that they lost, or arbitrarily changing the point of contention, ie not debating in good faith.

Nowadays it is increasingly difficult to grasp what the truth of a situation is. I think this is where moderation can possibly step in and point out that there was, in fact, a clear winner and loser, or that the loser is no longer arguing in good faith, forcing the loser to acknowledge the facts of the matter if they wish to continue in the discussion. Just an idea. Probably a terrible one, as Ive never done anything close to moderating a forum.

How do you think situations like this should be handled? Both from a user's perspective and moderator's perspective?

This sounds similar to how ResetEra currently handles its disagreements, but it is a very fine line. It wouldn't take much to see moderators promoting the side that they agree with and warning/banning the side that goes against their opinions (which is exactly what happens on the other site). I think the best bet would to be to say something like, "I have provided data that counters the points you have made and yet you continue to argue in bad faith. It is clear that this debate has ended. Have a good day." Move on from that and go debate another member or contribute to a different discussion.
 

Broseybrose

Member
Dec 5, 2007
3,015
87
1,065
Ozarks MO
This sounds similar to how ResetEra currently handles its disagreements, but it is a very fine line. It wouldn't take much to see moderators promoting the side that they agree with and warning/banning the side that goes against their opinions (which is exactly what happens on the other site). I think the best bet would to be to say something like, "I have provided data that counters the points you have made and yet you continue to argue in bad faith. It is clear that this debate has ended. Have a good day." Move on from that and go debate another member or contribute to a different discussion.
Excellent point. I would hate to see moderation like that here.
 

Dienekes

Moderator battling in the shade.
Dec 13, 2017
44
41
0
Nowadays it is increasingly difficult to grasp what the truth of a situation is. I think this is where moderation can possibly step in and point out that there was, in fact, a clear winner and loser, or that the loser is no longer arguing in good faith, forcing the loser to acknowledge the facts of the matter if they wish to continue in the discussion. Just an idea. Probably a terrible one, as Ive never done anything close to moderating a forum.
You are right, that is a terrible idea.

I think you just need to have faith in others ability to see the validity of your points are greater than theirs. As fas as that poster goes, if they are genuinely arguing in "bad faith" as you say, nothing you say or do will convince them. It's not even about the topic anymore, but to just "not lose" by wearing you down by attrition. If you feel that is the case, save yourself the trouble and move on from it/them, and if you must, ignore them (click on username, click "ignore").
 

Corrik

Member
Jan 20, 2018
1,647
1,063
555
Pittsburgh
I appreciate the history lesson and the feelings behind it. I think most long-time members are still recovering. The enema was a good thing.

I am also glad to hear that GAF is growing again. Let's head toward another Golden Age.

But... today's climate and my very recent experiences on OT, in combination with your insistence to stay respectful leaves me with an honest question...

If a particular user comes back and challenges my position on an issue or even challenges me as a person, and I then thoroughly destroy their counter-argument, and they then proceed to act like nothing of import happened... How am I supposed to respect them when they will not even acknowledge that they just lost a debate? At that point I respectfully point out the fact that they lost and try and move on.

But do I genuinely have any respect for that person anymore? No.

For me, it is not technically about winning or losing, it is about establishing what is true (or which side of the argument is closest to it), and having debates/discussions in good faith. Something I see becoming increasingly common, not just on GAF, is the loser either dodging the fact that they lost, or arbitrarily changing the point of contention, ie not debating in good faith.

Nowadays it is increasingly difficult to grasp what the truth of a situation is. I think this is where moderation can possibly step in and point out that there was, in fact, a clear winner and loser, or that the loser is no longer arguing in good faith, forcing the loser to acknowledge the facts of the matter if they wish to continue in the discussion. Just an idea. Probably a terrible one, as Ive never done anything close to moderating a forum.

How do you think situations like this should be handled? Both from a user's perspective and moderator's perspective?
Just because you feel you have "won" a debate does not mean you have. Most arguments do not have a right and wrong. They have two sides who see right in a different way.

You should go into every single argument on the internet that the person you are going to debate with is not going to change their mind and that neither are you. You say your piece. You argue it as far as you want to. You stop when you want to. There is no such thing as winning for 90% of discussions. People use statistics and articles all the time to frame arguments to appear as if it what is said is definitely true all the time. That does not mean a person has "won".

A moderator should never be warning anyone in an argument unless you are attacking the person or persons themself. For example, if my argument has degraded to just calling you names and attacking via ad hominem.

You can choose very simply to say, I feel I have shown I am right and whoever can read our arguments and decide. I am done debating it with you.

Just because you want the last word and to be acknowledging as winning an argument doesn't mean they should be moderated for still arguing their viewpoint.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Mar 5, 2009
12,473
21,299
1,900
I mentioned this in the other thread awhile back. I left with the initial wave of people. Mostly because I was frustrated with what happened to this place and that ResetEra initially promised to be what GAF used to be. That didn't happen and ResetEra just carried over all the problems of OldGAF.

In coming back to GAF a few weeks ago I see it has returned to the type of forum I want to post on. I don't feel like everyone has to tip toe around pissing off mods and getting banned for no good reason. I am seeing a lot of different viewpoints in threads that I would not have seen before.

The downside has been things are moving very slow. I have noticed over the last month it has been moving a little quicker. I think if everything can grow at that pace the forum will be in great shape soon. There's a great foundation here now, we just need some more content creators now. The plus side of the smaller community is I recognize a lot of posters now. With the size of the old forum a lot of the time it felt like trying to talk in the center of a giant crowd of random people.

Glad to see you are doing well and have motivation again Tyler. If there's anything I can do to help let me know. I see a good future for this place again. I need to learn to make some cool graphics so that I can make some OTs for games I am looking forward to.
 

Corrik

Member
Jan 20, 2018
1,647
1,063
555
Pittsburgh
Also a moderator's opinion on the subject matter should have nothing to do with moderating users opinions. Moderations should be cut and clear. Not handed out because you disagreed with a moderators viewpoint. In fact, a balanced moderator staff should have moderators who have differing viewpoints anyways.
 

Dienekes

Moderator battling in the shade.
Dec 13, 2017
44
41
0
Also a moderator's opinion on the subject matter should have nothing to do with moderating users opinions. Moderations should be cut and clear. Not handed out because you disagreed with a moderators viewpoint. In fact, a balanced moderator staff should have moderators who have differing viewpoints anyways.
Absolutely could not possibly agree more! As a moderator, we are holding ourselves to a much higher (and important) standard. I strive for absolute objectivity and pride myself on that one thing in particular, regardless of how I may feel on a topic, because how I feel is completely irrelevant and unimportant in the grand scheme of a good forum. How I moderate and the standard I adhere to is, and is what I should be judged by. This is why we have been and will continue on our path of transparent moderation. It's nowhere near perfect yet, but I feel like the improvements so far have been very positive and we are continually looking at new ways to implement features such as these.

For this forum to get where we truly want it, we have to strive to be better in every way possible, and for me, this one thing is one of the core fundamentals to get "right". But as the October month proved, there are also very important considerations to keep in mind on this front. The privacy of a moderator is very important too, as people have conspired in the past for some pretty villainous acts against the previous team. So please keep that in mind as we try to find the balance there.
 
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CampbellzSoup

Member
Oct 24, 2016
1,055
176
300
The SJW moderation here ruined this site. I am so greatful we can have heated exchanges without being banned. Respectful, yet disagreeable.

Seriously that shit SJW mindset kills everything...
 

akuda

Member
Jan 23, 2018
34
44
0


My how the turntables have turned...
NeoGAF even had a mention in my visual novel side project that I had to correct because what I wrote doesn't fit with the attitude change here anymore.
I'll stick around, it's slow but it's still better for writing long posts than Discord is.
 

cr0w

Old Member
Aug 31, 2015
3,210
1,493
765
Look, EL...goddamn bro, you and the site went through the grinder and came out the better for it. While I do wish the reckoning was by choice and not by force, either way y'all have come out smelling like roses. Based on how quickly the other site has turned into the absolute worst of OT within the span of a few months, I'd say you've made out like a bandit with the dipshits leaving by choice. A blessing in disguise really, though it may not have seemed like it at the time.
 

Droxcy

Member
Jan 21, 2018
678
395
645
Southern California
twitter.com
Holy crap my eyes and those paragraphs.

Forums have always been a special place for me, most of my friends don't understand it. I started out real young, before my naive self knew what the big bad internet was. My brother was a major part of me learning and figuring it all out, he's 11 years older than me. He got me started on GameBattles which was Socom Battles around 02' while that was happening, then he slowly got me into Photoshop CS (8.0) in 03' I was in elementary school at this point (super youngster) he had me listening to Toxicity and Iowa. Safe to say I grew up fast and learned a lot in a short amount of time (not grammar haha), really wasn't focusing on school in my younger years and I was still a immature kid. I started joining other forums and sites around 2004, mainly graphic design forums, I had an older account on 1up. Around 2006-2007 is when I was messing around with Runescape Private Servers, and doing graphics for peoples server and advertisements. Then I started around that time finding groups of forums that had decent amount of active registered user, the forums would basically battle for traffic around this time. I got sectional moderator spots then slowly climb my way over the years to Administrator. So I get where you're coming from about how you got your start, I guess it feels kind of like mine. Being a Moderator/Admin has a weird sense of responsibility that I feel like most people don't understand and it's hard to explain. I'm still active on places I've been visiting for the last 10 years, still same people and we keep coming back and revisiting the good times. Most people on the graphics side have moved on to bigger and better things, most of my friends have degrees, work for big game studios, or movie effect studios.

No more history. Guess the point I'm trying to get at is, having a bunch of people from different walks of life, people that have totally different views and opinions than you is the whole reason forums exists imo. It makes it even better when you get to chatting with someone that has the same interests as you. I've made a lot of friends over the years thanks to IPB & VB even SMF. I never understood when people would get truly angry at peoples thoughts, beliefs and opinions online. Especially on message boards, if you let people upset you like that on the internet (unless the individual is just spewing nonsense) you should take a break. Another basic thing is don't knock someone out of thread just because they might be new to the topic or subject. Sadly I've seen that a lot over the years, haven't seen as much on here though. Like I said previously, GAF seems like a much better place now & glad to be apart of it.
 

Kotzen Ducha

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
278
244
0
This thread sums up why Tyler has such a fanbase across multiple websites and forums.
His long-form posting in the last month has been interesting and insightful.

Reading his exploits across Europe and around the world were thrilling and inspiring.
I'm an amateur artist and did some artwork based on his adventures.
I kinda wish we could fund another trip or something just so we could hear about it.

Free climbing


When his body got dashed against the reef


His car racing on the cliffs of China


Tyler is an all-time great internet user
 

KINGMOKU

Member
May 16, 2005
8,387
7,538
1,710
Much improved. I had been posting on neogaf for a long time. I got banned a long time before the insanity broke the site(by a mod that is now disgraced beyond recognition over an absolute nothing)and never bothered to try and sign up again. Was content just reading. I watched from my cozy spot above the fray and was amazed at how angry and dismissive people from the left of the spectrum increasingly became.

I was watching a slow moving interstate pile up and came here to "watch" it like I used to watch T.V. shows when I had cable. I watched as bans started being handed out not for over the top personal attacks, or pure hate speech, but for merely disagreeing with group think, or daring to stand up to certain mods who were clearly in the wrong. Certain topics were forbidden and not for common sense obvious reasons, but because it would devolve into hundreds of posters working themselves into a frothing mess of base brain activity refusing to see or even acknowledge how someone could have a differing opinion.

The slow moving pile up has been cleared. It has moved to(please excuse my forthcoming rant)the absolute flaming out of control shithole that is Reset. I have never in my life seen the sheer level of victimhood on display, and the sick twisting of even the most innocuous events into huge outrage events. Republicans are evil, uneducated, shouldn't be allowed to speak, are not worthy of having a discussion with, capitalism is worse then communism, socialism, hell everything, and America sucks so lets break it into two countries. If you voted for Trump your a Nazi.(for the first time in my life I didn't vote. I ALWAYS VOTE. I just couldn't in good conscious make a choice) It reads like a bunch if entitled children who have almost zero experience in the real world and have never had any real responsibilities and know absolutely nothing outside of their tiny bubble in which they live.

It's disgusting and quite frankly I get the same feeling reading some of the threads on display there as I did when watching The Office and Micheal Scott said something that made you cringe. Thank god that is gone. You shouldn't have to pause before you decide to post your opinion, or even ask a question, to decide whether or not its worth the hassle of getting dogpiled or banned because you own a gun and believe its a fundamental right in America.(example)

Sorry for that. I don't even have an account there(I'd rather watch the crash then be involved)but it gets me riled up.

Here though? Where the real Reset happened? Actual conversation. Real thoughts not tinted by obvious bias. Freedom of discussion and thought.

Refreshing.(again sorry for that)
 

waxer

Member
Aug 24, 2006
924
229
1,325
Tyler. I think that so many of the older members stuck through the rough times. Which was a long time, is testiment to the community you helped shape and their wish for neogaf to succeed.
I'm glad I stayed around past the last few years.
Wish you all the best in recreating...no regrowing an excellent community that seems to be evolving for the better.
 

Wheeljack539

Member
Jun 9, 2004
2,144
978
1,585
42
LA
How I'm looking at GAF right now.



Hasn't formed its identity yet.

I think the phrase would be "Hasn't reforged it's identity yet". We'll see how it goes in the coming months with new blood and returnees.

I'm also hoping for the best as I've been around since 2000 (found the forum through a link by Deadmeat in another forum as he argued PS2 polygons per second) and signed up around that time. First major thread I can remember is the Daytona race that Dale Earnhardt died in.

It was a different place at that time and Evilore isn't kidding in how tight it was back then and the bans flew but there was more of a sense of humor then with that than the uneasiness of the past few years. If anything it like the wild west as one could not help but just like the atmosphere of the board where people argued and debated and it was a lot of fun.

I'm hoping things can return to that sense of fun.