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[Aquamarine]

they won't. bayonetta 2 is more like a prestige game, and I think Nintendo knows this. It won't sell.

Electroplankton, Sin & Punishment: Star Successor, and Hotel Dusk: Room 215 are three more examples of prestige Nintendo 1st-party games...ars gratia artis.

Mr. Iwata can be like that sometimes.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

It really makes you wonder how well this game would have sold had it been a multiplatform release for PS4 and Xbox One.

Bayo 1 was a PS360 game, doesn't sold enough for a sequel. Bayo2 would never sold enough in a multiplatform release. And it will not sale enough on Wii U to settle the production cost. But among other games it will be a reason why some people buy a Wii U and will turn a out as a good investion from Nintendo.

 

[danmaku]

Judging only by the small teaser it's "probably" Monster Hunter x DMC. So I doubt it has a broader appeal.

We can't say anything meaningful from the teaser, but Kamiya said that they're aiming for a larger audience with Scalebound, so it makes sense for MS to fund it instead of Bayonetta. They knew it was never going to be popular enough.

 

[JaseC]

Why would Microsoft fund a game's development and agree to something as restrictive as a "contractually-obligated grace period of exclusivity"?

Wouldn't they retain ownership of the game?

If I had to guess I'd say because it's a good deal -- one that limits the potential of the developer shopping the game around elsewhere. In the interest of evidence:

Ryse (now self-published on the PC):

Dead Rising 3 (now self-published on the PC):

(See also: its Copyright.gov entry.)

D4:

 

[Aquamarine]

Bayo 1 was a PS360 game, doesn't sold enough for a sequel. Bayo2 would never sold enough in a multiplatform release. And it will not sale enough on Wii U to settle the production cost. But among other games it will be a reason why some people buy a Wii U and will turn a out as a good investion from Nintendo.

That's not really true. Bayonetta didn't exactly bomb when taking worldwide sales into account. It could have done much worse, especially in the West.

While I don't think Nintendo came into the deal expecting big profits, it's not like the IP is a huge failure.

They definitely made back the production budget of the original Bayonetta.

 

[thequickandthedead]

Even though Sony want to own the rights to what they fund, aren't they known for allowing their devs creative freedom?

 

[Boss Mog]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

 

[Nightengale]

Even though Sony want to own the rights to what they fund, aren't they known for allowing their devs creative freedom?

Yes.

Doesn't change the fact that Sony is not the best publisher in the world to pitch for funding if the IP belongs to someone else/can't be transferred over to Sony.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

some money>no money

 

[Neff]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

But the nails were already in the coffin. Nintendo pulled them out.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

That doesn't make any sense, they didn't touch it in this case.

It was dead.

It being deader now after the Wii U game comes out doesn't hurt an already dead franchise that was given one last breath.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

Even if that's the case, the series is now two games, instead of one. Platinum wins and so do the people willing to invest in a Wii U.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nintendo went ahead and funded a third entry in the series, regardless of how it sells.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

They should just let it die after the first game so Platinum can bring me more Rising, right?

 

[Vishnu]

Im glad Bayo 2 is almost here, Bayo is the best action game I have ever played, ok maybe DMC 1 lol.

I do understand peoples tantrums, I mean Im on the fence on buying an X1 , just for D4.
Just one downloadable title.....
So i get why people who can't afford to buy a Wiiu are pissed off.

Still I like that Nintendo of all companies made Bayo 2 possible, they must know that they will lose money it.

 

[random25]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

The franchise was already in the coffin and buried deep underground after it touched the PS360 consoles lol.

 

[Skilletor]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

It's hilarious how difficult it is for people to understand. The franchise was dead. Nintendo gave us another game. Without them, it would be dead. All Bayonetta 2 on WiiU does is give us another Bayonetta. Without that, there wouldn't be a franchise. There wouldn't be another game.

 

[Aquamarine]

If I had to guess I'd say because it's a good deal -- one that limits the potential of the developer shopping the game around elsewhere. In the interest of evidence:

Ryse (now self-published on the PC):


Dead Rising 3 (now self-published on the PC):

(See also: its Copyright.gov entry.)

D4:

The thing is, man....Ryse and Dead Rising 3 were both HUGE games.

HUGE games cost a metric fuckton to develop, so Microsoft didn't fully fund them.



D4 is a much smaller game that Microsoft can easily fully fund.

So why would Microsoft agree to anything that's not Microsoft lifetime exclusive if it's fully funded?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Im glad Bayo 2 is almost here, Bayo is the best action game I have ever played, ok maybe DMC 1 lol.

I do understand peoples tantrums, I mean Im on the fence on buying an X1 , just for D4.
Just one downloadable title.....
So i get why people who can't afford to buy a Wiiu are pissed off.

Still I like that Nintendo of all companies made Bayo 2 possible, they must know that they will lose money it.

It's not that they are pissed off that's the problem, it's that many of their pissed off-ness is completely misdirected and unfounded.

 

[Nightengale]

A franchise dead with the existence of a 2nd game is still better than a franchise dead with only one game.

A game that wouldn't exist now exist because of Nintendo. Hate it all you want, it was a good thing for this industry.

 

[B.O.O.M]

You realize I meant the people using it as a chess piece in their console wars, right? Not just people who don't care about the game?

You sure took an aggressive stance over a complete misreading. Especially considering you cut out the part where I specifically outlined who I had an issue with.

Ironic this is coming from a guy with a persecution complex so strong about this one specific game.

You should have done a better job structuring your argument then. You ended one part, then talked about you liked the game cuz of gameplay and then talked about people 'dirtying' the game (lol?) So I assumed you are one of those who does the herp derp gameplay masterrace herp derp. Guess I was mistaken/misunderstood and for that I apologize.

At the same time however, I can perfectly understand why people think it was a mistake 'financially' for this game to be made. It makes no sense, the wiiu does not have the audience for it and nor does this franchise have the power to attract a new large enough audience to rectify that issue. Not everyone who brings such points are doing so just because it's part of 'console war' mentality. WiiU is not doing well enough to rile them up to use this game of all games as a chess piece. The few who are very vocal about wanting this game on other consoles are those who want to play it but don't think the wiiu is worth the entry price. It's useless and in someway illogical but it's not about console wars.

 

[Darak]

Didn't the first game sell around 2 million? It sold more than the DMC remake. Those are decent sales considering the target audience, I'd say good enough for a sequel.

 

[Bold One]

Looking at the sales, I can see why

 

[sphagnum]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

The franchise was already dead. There would LITERALLY have NEVER BEEN A BAYONETTA 2 if Nintendo did not step up to the plate.

You can either have one Bayonetta and nothing else, or two Bayonettas and a very very slim chance at something else.

 

[Aquamarine]

Didn't the first game sell around 2 million? It sold more than the DMC remake. Those are decent sales considering the target audience, I'd say good enough for a sequel.

I hope you're not reading Chartzzzz, because that sounds like a Chartzzzz figure.


Not that high in terms of sell-through...I don't know about shipments...but sales were better than "bomb" territory.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Wasn't Mass Effect 1 published by Microsoft originally? That ended up on other platforms but I don't know how similar the Bayo 2 situation is compared to that.

Mass Effect ended up on PS3 specifically because EA bought back the publishing rights to that game.
Of course, any publisher or even P* themselves could do the same with Bayo2 and release it wherever they want. It's just not really likely, because well...look at how popular Mass Effect is. And then look at Bayo's popularity.

 

[NumberThree]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

It sure matters to the part of the Bayonetta fan base that gets to play the sequel to the best action game of last generation just three weeks from now. Two games and no one touching the franchise after that is better than one game and no one touching the franchise.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Didn't the first game sell around 2 million? It sold more than the DMC remake. Those are decent sales considering the target audience, I'd say good enough for a sequel.

No? It barely sold 1 million, and that's after having huge discounts.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Nintendo does a lot of stupid and crazy shit but this is the latter and it's great for gamers.

They probably saw how terrible the story was?

There is nothing wrong with bayonettas story.

Your ability to pay attention probably needs work.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Ironic this is coming from a guy with a persecution complex so strong about this one specific game.

You should have done a better job structuring your argument then. You ended one part, then talked about you liked the game cuz of gameplay and then talked about people 'dirtying' the game (lol?) So I assumed you are one of those who does the herp derp gameplay masterrace herp derp. Guess I was mistaken/misunderstood and for that I apologize.

At the same time however, I can perfectly understand why people think it was a mistake 'financially' for this game to be made. It makes no sense, the wiiu does not have the audience for it and nor does this franchise have the power to attract a new large enough audience to rectify that issue. Not everyone who brings such points are doing so just because it's part of 'console war' mentality. WiiU is not doing well enough to rile them up to use this game of all games as a chess piece. The few who are very vocal about wanting this game on other consoles are those who want to play it but don't think the wiiu is worth the entry price. It's useless and in someway illogical but it's not about console wars.

Uh

Alright.

 

[Earthpainting]

We had pieced these pieces together already over time, but it's good to see some confirmation straight from the man himself. Glad it's being made, regardless of which necromancer allowed it to rise from its grave.

I'm interested in seeing how much of the eventual sales will come from newcomers and how many from existing Bayonetta fans though.

 

[Aquamarine]

No? It barely sold 1 million, and that's after having huge discounts.

^ Chartzzzz

Gotta watch out when people casually mention Chartzzzz nonsense. It creeps up on you when you least expect it.

 

[Longsword]

No? It barely sold 1 million, and that's after having huge discounts.

Yup, it all boils down to money. If iBay 1 made money and the budget of Bay 2 seemed right, Sega or others would have published and funded it in a flash.

It is abundantly clear that the publishers found the financial prospects of Bayonetta 2 unappealing based on Bayonetta 1's performance.

Still so glad no 2 go made!

 

[JPKellams]

The franchise was already dead. There would LITERALLY have NEVER BEEN A BAYONETTA 2 if Nintendo did not step up to the plate.

You can either have one Bayonetta and nothing else, or two Bayonettas and a very very slim chance at something else.

SHHHHHHH... Don't say anything that makes sense.

Also, how much does it suck that Kamiya stole my "ask for Zelda while you're at it" line? Gimmick infringement.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Multiple publishers turned it down, but one did not.

 

[Sayter]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

When posts like these are made they sound a lot like Nintendo should've not funded this project so that PG could've been busy making a game on a console that the poster owns.

 

[Sendou]

So why would Microsoft agree to anything that's not Xbox lifetime exclusive if it's fully funded?

They have in the past. Some examples include multiple Halo games, Alan Wake, Viva Piñata and many many others.

 

[JaseC]

The thing is, man....Ryse and Dead Rising 3 were both HUGE games.

HUGE games cost a metric fuckton to develop, so Microsoft didn't fully fund them.

I agree that it's unlikely Ryse and DR3 were wholly funded out of Microsoft's pocket.

D4 is a much smaller game that Microsoft can easily fully fund.

So why would Microsoft agree to anything that's not Xbox exclusive?

I offered my opinion in the very post you quoted, laced with the suggestion that I can't provide an answer defined by certainty. Regardless, the fact remains that D4 is owned by Access: it couldn't lay claim to copyright without owning it as copyright applies to individual works, which isn't necessarily true of trademarks (e.g. Valve has only ever registered three Half-Life trademarks with the USPTO: Half-Life, Half-Life: Blue Shift, and Half-Life 2: Aftermath).

 

[McValdemar]

Many gamers have turned it down too. Funny how that works

So the other publishers had a better understanding of the market

Not that I'm happy with this, but everybody knew is a niche title.
This time on a niche console.

 

[GamerJM]

Kamiya probably puts up with all the nonsense on Twitter because at least he can practice his English. Twitter seems like it'd be a great tool for that.

Actually, he majored in English. The reason his English on Twitter isn't that great is probably a combination of him using Twitter and quickly replying to everyone.

I think Kamiya actually likes using Twitter. I vaguely remembering reading that he did but I'm not certain about it. In any case I have trouble believing he doesn't enjoy it to some extent given how much he obviously uses it. He probably enjoys blocking randoms or telling them to "fuck off," or whatever, though I'm sure he gets annoyed by a lot of it too.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

aww Nintendo, our white knight in shining armor

 

[Aquamarine]

They have in the past. Some examples include multiple Halo games, Alan Wake, Viva Piñata and many many others.

In all of those examples you mentioned, they only received ports to the PC.

That's still part of the Microsoft ecosystem...I can see why Microsoft would contractually agree to that kind of clause.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Actually, he majored in English. The reason his English on Twitter isn't that great is probably a combination of him using Twitter and quickly replying to everyone.

I think Kamiya actually likes using Twitter. I vaguely remembering reading that he did but I'm not certain about it. In any case I have trouble believing he doesn't enjoy it to some extent given how much he obviously uses it. He probably enjoys blocking randoms or telling them to "fuck off," or whatever, though I'm sure he gets annoyed by a lot of it too.

I'm not saying his English isn't great; I'm saying Twitter is a good way to keep using English, so it's always a part of his life.

Then again, I didn't know he majored in English. That's pretty cool!

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

If I had to guess I'd say because it's a good deal -- one that limits the potential of the developer shopping the game around elsewhere. In the interest of evidence:

Ryse (now self-published on the PC):


Dead Rising 3 (now self-published on the PC):

(See also: its Copyright.gov entry.)

D4:

The thing is, man....Ryse and Dead Rising 3 were both HUGE games.

HUGE games cost a metric fuckton to develop, so Microsoft didn't fully fund them.



D4 is a much smaller game that Microsoft can easily fully fund.

So why would Microsoft agree to anything that's not Xbox lifetime exclusive if it's fully funded?

If I had to guess, I'd say that a PC port is a part of the original contract for some of the games Microsoft publishes. A lot of the developers they worked with had their roots in PC gaming (Epic, Crytek, BioWare, Remedy), so it may have made the deal more appealing in the first place for them. I'd imagine that MS still has some degree of control on allowing the PC versions, (as evidenced by Alan Wake) and can probably opt to be the publisher for them or not (they published Gears 1 on PC, but not Alan Wake). The developers being able to self publish on PC probably doesn't mean that they have the full rights to the games, or else we'd be seeing Gears on PS3, or EA wouldn't have waited 5 years for ME, etc.

 

[Sendou]

So the other publishers had a better understanding of the market

Not that I'm happy with this, but everybody knew is a niche title.
This time on a niche console.

You don't see the difference between Nintendo (a platform owner) funding a game compared to something like SEGA? Whether or not Bayonetta 2 is a success for Nintendo is not as simple as asking whether it makes profit or not. They have other more important factors to consider.

In all of those examples you mentioned, they only received ports to the PC (outside of Viva Pinata DS which exists in a market completely separate from Microsoft's game business).

That's still part of the Microsoft ecosystem...I can see why Microsoft would contractually agree to that kind of clause.

That is the case with Ryse and Dead Rising 3 though. I'm not sure I'm following you here taking in account the full context of the post I originally quoted.

 

[Herb Alpert]

the low sales must have pleased some people here. "I told you", this kind of shit.

What bothers me is the fact that Nintendo should have advertise Bayo 2 more. They pulled a Direct (and we know these won't reach a broad audience), a release party and that's all. No big ads in the streets like the first one. I am sure the game could have reach a little more sales, perhaps around the 360 numbers with a proper advertising campaign.

But I am so glad they funded it. Can't wait to play it in 3 weeks.

 

[Varjet]

Also, how much does it suck that Kamiya stole my "ask for Zelda while you're at it" line? Gimmick infringement.

:|

 

[walnuts]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

You guys should be happy because the IP got a second chance and could survive to the coma. And if you are a true Bayonetta fan, then go ahead and buy a physical copy (or 2), even if you will never play of ask a friend to lend his/her Wii U for a couple of months, so the franchise survives and you can play a multiplatform Bayo 3 or whatever. Stop crying and do something.

 

[JaseC]

The developers being able to self publish on PC probably doesn't mean that they have the full rights to the games, or else we'd be seeing Gears on PS3, or EA wouldn't have waited 5 years for ME, etc.

Of course there are potential contractual hurdles despite ownership -- that's why Dead Rising 3 and Ryse were released later on the PC, not simultaneously, for example.

Edit: To clarify, I don't agree with that the two examples you've provided are smoking guns.

 

[Inuhanyou]

In the first place, even if one was angry at the situation, why be angry at Kamiya and Nintendo?

I was angry at Sega for a while afterward, it seems they can do nothing but make dumbass decisions just because they don't know how to market themselves or their products.

They basically stopped having a western branch, and bayonetta 2's cancellation was part of their restructuring

 

[Sadist]

Oh don't worry Kamiya, a year from now people will still ask you about it.