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[RandyBobandy]

Considering it's current sales you can see why

 

[Yagharek]

That he doesn't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a new console just for the game doesn't mean he's not a fan.

After a year or more of incessant port begging, my tolerance for thinly veiled posts along those lines has worn thin. His post was just another of them.

 

[Xater]

Slow news day? Haven't we been over this multiple times already?

 

[nsignific]

Many gamers have turned it down too. Funny how that works

Luckily, quality is rarely associated with how mainstream something is. In all things.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Bayonetta 2 is owned by Nintendo; the IP in general is not.

Do you mean the copyright on the specific content? I don't know about that so can't really comment. However, I still think this is a pretty unusual scenario for a first party platform holder, and we can't really make definitive comments on supposed exclusivity without knowing the terms of the deal between Sega and Nintendo.

 

[Mael]

That's a bizarrely elitist and exclusionary distinction. Current-gen consoles are a notable expense for most people and so naturally there's a desire for a value proposition stronger than just one game. Like, I adore the Uncharted series but you can bet that I'm not going to pick up the inevitable Uncharted 4 + console bundle if there hasn't been a price drop by Q4 next year as there are few other games that I'd like to play.

You don't have the luxury to call yourself a fan (with implication that the devs owe you something because really that's what it's all about) when the only thing you did was buy something from Gamespot for 10 bucks that they were trying to get rid and the only kind of support you showed was talk about it online and badger Kamiya on twitter.
If your room is full of Bayonetta's merchandising and you still haven't decided to get a WiiU to get the sequel to that game you're a fan well you're an idiot.
And in your example you don't expect U4 to launch on ps3 and you will not badger Naughty Dog about a ps3 version, right?
If you're a fan you've already moved on (-> no longer a fan) or you're getting a WiiU.

 

[Majukun]

Second-party is a weird fan definition that casual Internet users started to use to categorise things.

It doesn't have a clear meaning and it's inconsistent.



Nintendo doesn't use it. Publishers don't use it. So I don't bother, honestly.


I prefer this very simple definition:


"First-Party Game" = Nintendo funded or co-funded the game's development.

"Third-Party Game" = Nintendo did not fund the game's development.

Nothing weird about it thought,first party is made by studios owned totally by the company,second party is when you pay another developer you don't own to develop your game,third party is just when someone decides to put his game on your console.

As examples,on n64 mario and zelda were first,all Rareware games were second and,i don't know,turok was third party

 

[Sakujou]

this is not new news....???

 

[Lernaean]

That's a bizarrely elitist and exclusionary distinction. Current-gen consoles are a notable expense for most people and so naturally there's a desire for a value proposition stronger than just one game. Like, I adore the Uncharted series but you can bet that I'm not going to pick up the inevitable Uncharted 4 + console bundle if there hasn't been a price drop by Q4 next year as there are few other games that I'd like to play.

And yet he is right.
Fans, by definition are those who are willing to go the extra mile, simple as that. The 'i liked the first game but i'm not buying another console to play the sequel' is the literal definition of someone who liked the game but is no fan.
Also, you said about a value proposition of more than one game. Nintendo consoles always have a couple or more games in the GOTG top ten, so i doubt there is only one game of worth in the console, and even if you don't like Nintendo games, which by definition is wrong as 'Nintendo games' is not a genre, then there are two PG games already on the platform plus the definite version of Bayonetta.

 

[Magusx]

Nintendo you just sold me a wii u end of october thanks to this game.

 

[Zolbrod]

The same thing has been going on on Swery's Twitter with dozens of people asking for a PS4 port for D4, and he tends to answer the same way: "Sure, I'll bring D4 to PS4 if you bring Halo to PS4."

It's mindblowing how few people seem to understand how the developer/publisher relationship works.

 

[JaseC]

Do you mean the copyright on the specific content? I don't know about that so can't really comment. However, I still think this is a pretty unusual scenario for a first party platform holder, and we can't really make definitive comments on supposed exclusivity without knowing the terms of the deal between Sega and Nintendo.

Yes. As a sort of rule of thumb, trademarks apply to franchises and copyright to individual works; Sega owns the Bayonetta IP as well as the original game, but it's Nintendo that owns Bayonetta 2 in particular. While you're right that we're not privy to the contract (something I mentioned myself earlier -- it's entirely possible the game will become Sega's at some point in the future), the fact remains that in the here and now Bayonetta 2 is a Nintendo property.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

That's a bizarrely elitist and exclusionary distinction. Current-gen consoles are a notable expense for most people and so naturally there's a desire for a value proposition stronger than just one game. Like, I adore the Uncharted series but you can bet that I'm not going to pick up the inevitable Uncharted 4 + PS4 bundle if there hasn't been a price drop by Q4 next year as there are few other games that I'd like to play.

Buying a Wii U isn't going to be expensive forever. Even if you don't want one in the near future you can still pick one up and play the game much further down the line when you can get them for cheap. Much better alternative than the game never seeing the light of day.

 

[Majukun]

Do you mean the copyright on the specific content? I don't know about that so can't really comment. However, I still think this is a pretty unusual scenario for a first party platform holder, and we can't really make definitive comments on supposed exclusivity without knowing the terms of the deal between Sega and Nintendo.

It's just a licensed game,a game made from the bayonetta franchise owned by sega but funded by nintendo.look at it like goldeneye 64,the ip was owned by whoever makes the 007 films,but fully funded by nintendo and developed by a studio they hired.

 

[JaseC]

Buying a Wii U isn't going to be expensive forever. Even if you don't want one in the near future you can still pick one up and play the game much further down the line when you can get them for cheap. Much better alternative than the game never seeing the light of day.

That I don't disagree with -- I was simply taking issue with the notion that somebody not wanting to buy a current-gen console just to play the one game somehow invalidates them as a fan.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Hello there Mr. Publisher, can I have a lot of money for my game? Unfortunately it will bomb like all the previous ones.

 

[Celine]

I get that they really wanted to release Bayonetta 2 and Nintendo were the only ones that wanted it. But none of that matters to the most of Bayonetta fan base like me that don't own a Wii U and don't plan on buying one to play Bayonetta 2.. All Bayo 2 on Wii U is gonna do is put the final nail in that franchise's coffin because sales will be so abysmal (and they already are in Japan) that nobody will dare ever want to touch it again on any system.

Put it this way.
You can play Bayo2 in the future if you want (and the price for both the console and game will be cheaper with time).
Without Nintendo even that possibility wouldn't exist for you.

I'm not sure how the "Bayonetta fan base" would not like this option (and I'm saying it as I'm not much interested in Bayonetta).

 

[Majukun]

Hello there Mr. Publisher, can I have a lot of money for my game? Unfortunately it will bomb like all the previous ones.

except bayo 1 didn't bomb,it didn't set the charts on fire either,but 1.4 mln copies worldwide it's hardly a bomb

 

[killatopak]

Kamiya can't catch a break.

The only game that PD made that had good sales was for MGR right?
That may be one of the reasons why other publishers turned them down despite the superior gameplay in all of their games.

 

[Boss Doggie]

You'd be surprised.

The fuck did I read, that guy thinks Kamiya isn't part of Platinum

 

[Mael]

except bayo 1 didn't bomb,it didn't set the charts on fire either,but 1.4 mln copies worldwide it's hardly a bomb

It is if most copies sold were clearance sales.
Now if the game is part of Platinium or something that might paint a different picture.

 

[Exile20]

And yet he is right.
Fans, by definition are those who are willing to go the extra mile, simple as that. The 'i liked the first game but i'm not buying another console to play the sequel' is the literal definition of someone who liked the game but is no fan.
Also, you said about a value proposition of more than one game. Nintendo consoles always have a couple or more games in the GOTG top ten, so i doubt there is only one game of worth in the console, and even if you don't like Nintendo games, which by definition is wrong as 'Nintendo games' is not a genre, then there are two PG games already on the platform plus the definite version of Bayonetta.

Exactly what I was thinking. Good post.

 

[Lernaean]

except bayo 1 didn't bomb,it didn't set the charts on fire either,but 1.4 mln copies worldwide it's hardly a bomb

It pretty much is.
Most of these copies were sold at bomba prices and in multiples per customer. The Bayonetta fan base is a lot smaller than a million, you can bet on that.
The only PG game that can be considered not bombing was MGR, and that's because of the brand name and the later Steam port that expanded the userbase but also resold to console owners as well.

 

[Feindflug]

So the 'fanbase' of said game does not want to buy the hardware to play said game. I'm terribly sorry but that's not how logic works at all.
We're only interested/getting hyped about games that are on our beloved box, not the other way around.

Fixed.

Platinum games are a big example of this:

Nintendo fanboys didn't give a fuck about Platinum games until TW101 & Bayo 2 were announced (getting a PS3 or a 360 for Bayo 1, Vanquish & Anarchy Reigns? no way man!), then suddenly OMFG! Kamiya & Platinum are gods! system sellers you guys!
MS fanboys were meh about Bayo 2 & TW101 until Scalebound was announced, now it's all about Kamiya baby!

Spoiler

Nintendo & Sony fanboys are not amused though since Scalebound will be a rushed, dumbed down piece of shit for casuals because you know MS and all.

Sony fanboys? there is no exclusive game planned for the PS4 so they are just "lol, Platinum games are bombs, lol" but at the same time they stealh port beg Bayo 2 and they can't wait for Rising 2!

I really can't wait for a PS4 exclusive to get announced to see this continue.

 

[Carlius]

haters gonna hate. if it werent for nintendo the game woudlnt even exist. also, comparins sales in japan, is dumb. i have 4 copies pre ordered to give out to some friends. cant wait

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

It pretty much is.
Most of these copies were sold at bomba prices and in multiples per customer. The Bayonetta fan base is a lot smaller than a million, you can bet on that.
The only PG game that can be considered not bombing was MGR, and that's because of the brand name and the later Steam port that expanded the userbase but also resold to console owners as well.

Are you the spokesman for the whole Bayonetta fan community or where do you get your "Bayo fan base is >1mil" stuff from?

 

[Canis lupus]

.

 

[Ushojax]

except bayo 1 didn't bomb,it didn't set the charts on fire either,but 1.4 mln copies worldwide it's hardly a bomb

It was enough of a bomb for the sequel to be turned down by every 360/PS3 publisher it was pitched to.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Yet people believed sony would fund a shenmue... el oh el

 

[Interceptor]

The holy trinity of false believes in gaming forums:

Bayonetta 2 will come to a non Nintendo console.
Second parties do exist.
Pokemon is not owned by Nintendo.

Amen.

 

[Majukun]

I think sony should have take te franchise...sony's fans are pretty 'loyal',and buy pretty much anything if it's exclusive...even knack was million seller,bayo2 would have made no exception

 

[JaseC]

And yet he is right.
Fans, by definition are those who are willing to go the extra mile, simple as that. The 'i liked the first game but i'm not buying another console to play the sequel' is the literal definition of someone who liked the game but is no fan.
Also, you said about a value proposition of more than one game. Nintendo consoles always have a couple or more games in the GOTG top ten, so i doubt there is only one game of worth in the console, and even if you don't like Nintendo games, which by definition is wrong as 'Nintendo games' is not a genre, then there are two PG games already on the platform plus the definite version of Bayonetta.

He said quite explicitly that he doesn't want to buy a Wii U for Bayonetta 2, which, like it or not, is a perfectly reasonable stance considering that the console is still $200 at the absolute least (and that's only if one lives in the US). You can't presume to know what he likes and use it to prop up the questionable argument that fans who don't want to or can't afford to pay hundreds of dollars just to get their hands on something are not actually fans. I mean, by that logic you could also call into question those who buy $60 standard editions as opposed to $150 Collector's Editions -- sure, they're showing their support, but in opting for the cheapest route they're not going that "extra mile", are they?

 

[killatopak]

The holy trinity of false believes in gaming forums:

Bayonetta 2 will come to a non Nintendo console.
Second parties do exist.
Pokemon is not owned by Nintendo.

Amen.

This is possible but not in this gen.

 

[King_Moc]

Hello there Mr. Publisher, can I have a lot of money for my game? Unfortunately it will bomb like all the previous ones.

Why do you care if it bombs? Are You Nintendo's ceo or a consumer? I say good on Nintendo for funding what looks to be best character action game ever made, despite the fact that it will obviously make them a loss. Not every company looks at their potential franchises the way Activision and Microsoft do, nor should they.

 

[Ostinatto]

I think i will buy 2 copies of the game.

Thanks PG and Nintendo.

 

[random25]

I think i will buy 2 copies of the game.

Thanks PG and Nintendo.

 

[Interceptor]

This is possible but not in this gen.

So you mean it´s possible if Nintendo goes 3rd party? ^^ You have to wait a couple of gens then...
Happy waiting.

 

[Canis lupus]

.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

The holy trinity of false believes in gaming forums:

Bayonetta 2 will come to a non Nintendo console.
Second parties do exist.
Pokemon is not owned by Nintendo.

Amen.

This is possible but not in this gen.

... how so?

 

[Majukun]

This is possible but not in this gen.

This entire thread explains why it's not

 

[killatopak]

There only seem bad blood between Sakaguchi and Sony, maybe someone can explain why.

Sony had stakes with Spirits Within. Also I believed that Sakaguchi once said that coding in PS3 is hard just like HD towns. Lastly, I think in all of Mistwalker's games Nintendo/MS gave Sakaguchi some funding. Sony did not.

 

[clay_ghost]

This is possible but not in this gen.

I still don't get why you think it's possible?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Hmm, I'd have thought MS or Sony would jump at the opportunity, but I guess not.

Good on Nintendo for saving the game though.

Bloodborne, Destiny and Watch Dogs were better investments for Sony. Doesn't seem like a Xbox exclusive.

 

[Mael]

I think sony should have take te franchise...sony's fans are pretty 'loyal',and buy pretty much anything if it's exclusive...even knack was million seller,bayo2 would have made no exception

He said quite explicitly that he doesn't want to buy a Wii U for Bayonetta 2, which, like it or not, is a perfectly reasonable stance considering that the console is still $200 at the absolute least (and that's only if one lives in the US). You can't presume to know what he likes and use it to prop up the questionable argument that fans who don't want to pay hundreds of dollars just to get their hands on something are not actually fans. I mean, by that logic you could also call into question those who buy $60 standard editions as opposed to $150 Collector's Editions -- sure, they're showing their support, but in opting for the cheapest route they're not going that "extra mile", are they?

We're not talking about a special edition here, we're talking about a dedicated fanbase.
The fans of Steelbattalion games bought that shitty game on Kinect and even got a Kinect for that.
If you're not willing to buy Bayonetta 2 you're not a fan of the IP, you're merely a fan of the 1rst game.

 

[Lernaean]

Fixed.

Platinum games are a big example of this:

Nintendo fanboys didn't give a fuck about Platinum games until TW101 & Bayo 2 were announced (getting a PS3 or a 360 for Bayo 1, Vanquish & Anarchy Reigns? no way man!), then suddenly OMFG! Kamiya & Platinum are gods! system sellers you guys!
MS fanboys were meh about Bayo 2 & TW101 until Scalebound was announced, now it's all about Kamiya baby!

Spoiler

Nintendo & Sony fanboys are not amused though since Scalebound will be a rushed, dumbed down piece of shit for casuals because you know MS and all.

Sony fanboys? there is no exclusive game planned for the PS4 so they are just "lol, Platinum games are bombs, lol" but at the same time they stealh port beg Bayo 2 and they can't wait for Rising 2!

I really can't wait for a PS4 exclusive to get announced to see this continue.

That's all truth, unfortunately.

Are you the spokesman for the whole Bayonetta fan community or where do you get your "Bayo fan base is >1mil" stuff from?

No, i'm the chairman of the bored (not a typo), the spokesman is another guy.
And guys, reading comprehension ffs. I didn't say that from a million who bought the game, a lot fewer are fans, i clearly said that the people who bought Bayonetta are fewer than the units sold.
If you want to test it, open up a thread named 'post only if you bought just one copy of Bayonetta' and see if it fills a page.

 

[JaseC]

We're not talking about a special edition here, we're talking about a dedicated fanbase.

It was an example to show that distinguishing a fan from someone who isn't a fan solely by their willingness to part with cash is not a reliable metric.

The fans of Steelbattalion games bought that shitty game on Kinect and even got a Kinect for that.

Some did, sure.

If you're not willing to buy Bayonetta 2 you're not a fan of the IP, you're merely a fan of the 1rst game.

His posts suggests that he is, just not at this juncture. There is a distinction to make there.

 

[Frumix]

Personally I'm still surprised Nintendo went with it.
It was never gonna move systems. This is some outright charity.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I think sony should have take te franchise...sony's fans are pretty 'loyal',and buy pretty much anything if it's exclusive...even knack was million seller,bayo2 would have made no exception

I think the thing to take from all this, is while some will say they dodged a bullet, Sony fucked up here.

The Dualshock is the default controller for action games. Nothing else comes close.

I understand why they didnt do it (It would of offered little to no value as a PS3 game) but it still stings.

Imagine Bayo 2 as a launch PS4 title *drools*

That said, the wiiu is getting that DS4 adapter, so its whatever really.

 

[thesolidshark]

I like this.

And thanks Nintendo, Platinum, JP, Kamiya, and anyone else involved in making and bringing us a great game, actually two for the price of one.

 

[gelf]

I wish I could justify getting a Wii U for this game I really do. I think it's fair enough that it's Nintendo only though, they were brave enough to back it. Sega are too conservative now.

I can't see myself ever playing it but I hope it sells as well as it possibly can.