Well I am and etc. etc.
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Hideki Kamiya shits all over Kotaku
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
Well I am and etc. etc.
I've re-read this post many times, but cannot make head nor tail of it. It might even be making me stupid, so I'm going to stop.
Probably for the best that guy left in a hurry. Hopefully he keeps his rage confined to the internets...
WickedLaharl
Member
You're right, he shouldn't. But since we don't live in fairy tale land where everyone is nice to one another the best course of action would be to ignore the nonsense.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Holy shit. I didn't even see it until just now. Was that guy trolling or was he legit upset?
The image of some guy just frothing at the mouth as he types out these posts in a rage is just hilarious to me.
Yeah pretty much this. He probably shouldn't have used the word, considering its connotations, he got chewed out by his boss for it for a reason.
He could have said 外国人(Gaikokujin), but chose not to...
encephalon
Member
When someone says "kuso oyaji" are they exhibiting a secret hatred for old people? No. This is so silly. The point of the insult sounds like it's purposefully meant to be over the top and sounds more comical than insulting.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
In all reality? It's not offensive to anyone who isn't extremely sensitive about not feeling like they are being included in Japanese society. Japan doesn't really have a history of prosecuting unspecific foreigners within its own land. You kind of need that history of prosecution and belittlement by the ruling class for a racist term to truly become vitriolic and offensive. It's why most people just laugh at "cracker" and don't consider it on the same level as "nigger" or "spic" or whatever. It's because there's no history of a horribly unfair relationship.
On a scale where "cracker" is a 1 and "nigger" is a 10, I'd probably put "gaijin" at a 0.5, simply for the fact that it's most often use simply as a descriptor with no negative intention whatsoever. Some people will even attach honorifics (-san) completely unsarcastically when talking about a foreigner.
And now I'm imagining Kamiya sarcastically referring to everyone that was pissing him off as "gaijin-san".
There really isn't many games I'd get on the consoles that I can't get on the pc. A few exclusives or console only games is the only reason I even use mine.
If I had it my way, I'd never buy a console system because I'd be playing it on my PC instead.
In another way, Kamiya doesn't need anyone but himself to stand up for him
Nice job. I don't think anyone could put it much better, especially the bolded.
gaijin in itself is not necessarily racially derogatory in itself...
yet everyone ignores what kamiya actually said,
which basically translates into "fucking piece of shit foreigners"
It is without a doubt he is saying it in a derogatory manner.
It's amazing he isn't punished severely by his company.
Saying "oh he is a gaijin" = sensitive maybe, but not a problem
Saying "those fucking pieces of shit gaijin" = big problem even for Japanese standards
yet everyone ignores what kamiya actually said,
which basically translates into "fucking piece of shit foreigners"
It is without a doubt he is saying it in a derogatory manner.
It's amazing he isn't punished severely by his company.
Saying "oh he is a gaijin" = sensitive maybe, but not a problem
Saying "those fucking pieces of shit gaijin" = big problem even for Japanese standards
Frankenstrat
Member
Understood it in one go. Try giving it another shot.
Let me list some of the stuff he said
クソ馬鹿ガイジン - fucking dumbass foreigners
クソ馬鹿ぽんこつガイジン - fucking dumbass low life foreigners
クソ馬鹿ガイジンまじうぜー - fucking dumbass foreigners are really annoying
クソ馬鹿ボンクラおがくずガイジン - fucking dumbass retarded pieces of trash foreigners
(he managed to add 4 derogatory adjectives on this one)
Even the usually anti-foreigner Japanese online users are saying this is too much.
Boggles the mind he can be excused for any reason saying something as the face of a company.
クソ馬鹿ガイジン - fucking dumbass foreigners
クソ馬鹿ぽんこつガイジン - fucking dumbass low life foreigners
クソ馬鹿ガイジンまじうぜー - fucking dumbass foreigners are really annoying
クソ馬鹿ボンクラおがくずガイジン - fucking dumbass retarded pieces of trash foreigners
(he managed to add 4 derogatory adjectives on this one)
Even the usually anti-foreigner Japanese online users are saying this is too much.
Boggles the mind he can be excused for any reason saying something as the face of a company.
pancakesandsex
Member
I like how everyone's first reaction is to be offended instead of "stop action like a fucking dumbass".
This. Racially offensive or not, it is inexcusable as an employee talking to his company's customers. Highly unprofessional and degrades the image of the Japanese game industry as a whole. Unfortunate.
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
I'm pretty sure kamiya keeps using insulting gaijin phrases because people are complaining and he enjoys gettin a rise out of them.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
He was talking to the assholes on Twitter too.
I honestly don't think he was bashing the Kotaku article as much as people think he is. He seems to rarely read long English articles when his fans link him to them, and the last time someone made a dumb article about one of his tweets, he was angrier at the fact that someone used his tweets to make an article than he was at the article being dumb.
Obviously he disliked the article but I think the "fucking stupid foreigners" comments were squarely targeted at the people bashing him on Twitter for his PC comments.
if people are really interested in this, why are they only doing half the research then getting on their knight armor? oh I guess everyone responds to racism and death threats perfectly. I'm sure hes talking about all foreigners when he spends more time than most devs communicating in english to people all over the world many times throughout the day.
shoutouts to "anti-foreigner japanese online users"! and to people making judgements about something they could never possibly relate to.
You disagree with that? There are multiple studies conducted and data on the trend in Japan that those kinds of people are congregating online to express their socially unacceptable views, which game related users represents a big chunk of.
What kamiya is doing is another example.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I disagree - Kotaku needs to be pegged down on a lot of shit they can get away with.
Honestly I've been telling my friends to avoid that place and refer to siliconera or forums for sources. Since they're PG fans I hope this will dissuade them from referring to Kotaku.
.... Where do you get that notion? I just listed those because I think what happened is not being represented truthfully.
Son of Cervantes
Member
In my experience, most Japanese people feel exceedingly comfortable in a very black & white "us and them" view of the world. Hence the prevalence of the term, but it doesn't necessarily connote xenophobia.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's an extremely homogeneous island nation with a society that promotes a collective mentality and encourages "sameness," not to mention all of the delicate social etiquette that exists. Unless you were born and raised in the country, it's an extremely difficult culture to assimilate into, and that makes it particularly comfortable for the Japanese to have that "us" and "them" view of the world.
Do you seriously not see the tremendous hypocrisy in your argument? You're all over Kamiya for making what you allege are racist/xenophobic statements and in the same thread -- even in the same post -- you make derogatory, blanket statements about the Japanese game industry and Japanese online users.
As a foreigner living in Japan, who experiences what it's like on a day to day basis to integrate into society, and as someone who can understand Japanese and therefore gain insight into what people around me are saying when they assume I'm oblivious...
... I rate it as a "2" at most.
It is truly inoffensive on its own. Like any word, it can be twisted to have a negative meaning, but that's like saying "white" is a discriminatory word, because you've heard that spoken in intentionally offensive phrases like "shut the fuck up you white bitch." It's used mostly as a descriptor and not to cause offense.
Most people even add a polite suffix onto it, and say "gaijin-san." Simply drawing attention to racial or cultural differences isn't considered negative or offensive in Japan, which is the way it should be IMO, but I digress.
Kamiya doesn't hate foreigners and I don't see how anyone could come to that conclusion from his tweets people backed him into a corner with their incessant pestering and he's given them the reaction they were desperate to invoke.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Did we have another Junior run? I've noticed a ton of juniors I don't recognize getting banned the last few days.
^ lol glad you weren't tlking about me there because the last thing I want to do is sound like that muppet345 guy. Just trying to point out that the consensus about "foreigner" being a discriminatory or inherently offensive word is presumptive at best.
Well while the things he said there are certainly offensive, the way you translated them is really stretching and intensifying the meaning. For example, you used "fucking" for "kuso" while the Japanese word doesn't have even close to the same connotation as the f-word. It shows up in kids manga and on daytime TV, for example. It'd more like "crappy."
Again while I will agree that he's gone too far, your conclusions are baseless. Thinking that this way of thought is common in Japan or the Japanese industry is absurd, and I personally think that believing Kamiya subscribes full-stop to an anti-American/anti-foreigner is silly, too. You have to consider the circumstances around the tweets. I think Kamiya's biggest mistake is giving trolls the time of day by respondin.
Well while the things he said there are certainly offensive, the way you translated them is really stretching and intensifying the meaning. For example, you used "fucking" for "kuso" while the Japanese word doesn't have even close to the same connotation as the f-word. It shows up in kids manga and on daytime TV, for example. It'd more like "crappy."
Again while I will agree that he's gone too far, your conclusions are baseless. Thinking that this way of thought is common in Japan or the Japanese industry is absurd, and I personally think that believing Kamiya subscribes full-stop to an anti-American/anti-foreigner is silly, too. You have to consider the circumstances around the tweets. I think Kamiya's biggest mistake is giving trolls the time of day by respondin.
The word itself is not offensive, it's that it can be taken as him dismissing others' conversations because they are foreign.
"Women" is not an offensive term, for example.
But just as there are stupid men in this world, there are stupid women too.
But when a woman says something -- no matter how stupid -- and you reply with "Stupid fuckin' women!" thaaaaaat's not cool. And it shouldn't be, for obvious reasons.
I'm not defending his comments I'm just saying that I don't think they're a genuine reflection of his, or the Japanese gaming industry's beliefs. They're insensitive comments, and it's poor form for someone who has fans all over the world to speak in such a way.
Having said that, people drawing conclusions about Japanese xenophobia or racism are suffering from confirmation bias.
idlethreats
Member
I'd say this is pretty spot on in my experience. When I lived in Japan, I noticed that it tended to be only white foreigners that would bristle at the perceived prejudices of the term "gaijin," or fingerprinting at immigration, or police officers asking to see your documentation, etc. The rest of us never seemed to mind this, possibly because those of us who are people of color from majority white countries are often already used to being treated like foreigners in our own home countries anyway.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
So how many have we got already people saying Kamiya is a racist but in turn make racist post themselves?
I remember one. Here's another then?
I remember one. Here's another then?
That grounded and sensible discussion approach you have is something I sorely miss. I shall carve out a sliver of hope for humanity again.
I love/hate this thread.
I support this hypothesis.
edit:zefah and odd_morsel are so on-point is rediculous
I support this hypothesis.
edit:zefah and odd_morsel are so on-point is rediculous
Somehow missed this before I put in my reply to say almost the exact same thing. You're pretty much spot-on with this, except I'd point out that Japanese do have a history with racial discrimination (such as Zainichi [Koreans for the unfamiliar] and Ainu [aboriginals]), but the word "gaijin" is never used in reference to any of these tensions or concerns.
There are those who really take issue with every instance, big or small, of any perceived discrimination, such as David Aldwinkle, who considers himself White Japanese. He is an annoying ass. That said most characters through Japanese history as it relates to western foreigners, such as William S Clark, Commodore Perry and Donald Keene are held in exceptionally high regard. You know your stuff so you're probably familiar but this is for others who maybe haven't come across this topic before.
Japanese (in general) are pretty racist? Big news at 11....
It's not even that they are racist, it's just that they think everyone else beside them is wrong, or doesn't know what they are talking about. Sadly they are incapable of taking criticism outside of themselves (and even..)
They are like that for everything in their life.
Their first excuse, if it's possible, will always be "gaijin fault".
It's not even that they are racist, it's just that they think everyone else beside them is wrong, or doesn't know what they are talking about. Sadly they are incapable of taking criticism outside of themselves (and even..)
They are like that for everything in their life.
Their first excuse, if it's possible, will always be "gaijin fault".
Well... No. Not at all, but nice try.
I have tried again, just for you.
I can see the reasoning behind "you lazy spic" being taken to imply a wider thought-process behind a certain group of people. Regardless of where they're from, taking out the racial connotations and simply saying "you lazy chump" would be better in this instance, yes?
In the same light, I take it Kamiya's re-tweeting coupled with "I'm going to block this idiot foreigner" is considered offensive because he specifically uses the word 'foreigner', which implies he's targeting a certain group of people (regardless of the perceived connotations behind the actual Japanese word used).
But when you consider the fact that certain people from this group - i.e. people using language that's not native to Kamiya (regardless of whether or not they're native to Japan, as we can't know this) - are posting on his Twitter in order to insult and pester him, then it's not surprising he called them out in this way. The other group of people who aren't foreign to him - i.e. Japanese speakers - were being rather nice in comparison.
And this is assuming that ALL foreigners were harassing Kamiya, which they weren't. The vast majority of posts were friendly, and he responded well to them, whether they were in English or not.
This is very true. Sometimes you get people who are out to make a statement, when there's nothing really to base it on. Just because they're far from home and feel the pressure of a culture that doesn't immediately accept them, they feel ostracised and alienated. It's always very difficult to reason with them as well, like they really want to believe that they're being racially discriminated against. I wonder if it happens in other countries/cultures too, or if it's just something about Japan...
What an ironic post
Well yes. Denying that just tend to prove blinded love for the country or ignorance.
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