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Hideo Baba (Tales) helming new Square Enix studio Studio Istolia, making new RPG

H

Heyt

Banned
Worthy of note is that Rose was added two years into a 3 year dev cycle and she us the driving force of 2/3 of the game. So it came our unpolished on some areas because the had to do a huge shift in very little time.

The game also came early into the anniversary. If it had 7 more months it could had been different, but Namco deadlines seem ruthless.
 
H

Heyt

Banned
Yeah, most of it is unfounded fan theories. But Rose being casted 2 years after everyone else is very telling about why the game is as it is.

My personal opinion/speculation is that they were not satisfied with Alishas character and took the bold (and maybe wrong choice) of casting her aside in favor of a character with a more impact up presence of the mood of the party and the game.

We will never know, sadly.
 
K

khaaan

Member
Mendrox said:
Haha man. How much damage has he done? I mean yeah Zestiria and the thing with Roses Seiyuu were really really bad, but overall...

Even though he fucked Zestiria up for me, I still wish him the best. Excited for a new RPG IP.
Click to expand...

I never followed the Zestiria stuff mainly because I'm catching up and still back around Xillia/Graces, what was the Seiyuu thing? From my understanding the Zestiria complaints (barring gameplay issues) was that people got real attached to Alisha, was there something else that happened?

Edit: Oh, just saw someone asked the same thing a few posts back.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I like how the DLC focuses on Alisha but
she's still treated like shit, by Rose nonetheless.
 
D

Datschge

Member
duckroll said:
Probably, because he also produced Tales of Hearts and Tales of Vesperia, and people liked those quite a bit.
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ULTROS! said:
He is a veteran. He produced majority of the Tales games post 2000 and the highly acclaimed Tales of Vesperia. That's a good foothold for him leading the new project.
Though it's funny since 3 of the best Tales games (Symphonia, Abyss, Berseria) aren't produced by Baba.
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Cisce said:
afaik he didn't produce vesperia
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Baba only joined the Tales series for Destiny PS2 as director from Bandai Namco's side. He wasn't involved in Vesperia aside being groomed as brand manager/series producer in place of Yoshidumi who handled that between Destiny 2 and Vesperia.

Kazuo Hirai said:
Tales series done or not?
Click to expand...
Not done. Actually the series' state never been more exciting since when Baba joined.

DVCY201 said:
I don't even know the state of the various Tales of teams that have come and gone, but Baba has been a constant for a while.
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He has been a constant in a time where the development staff kept being shuffled, reorganized, decimated and with major management changes. Berseria is the first time in a long time that there is continuity in staff again. I'm sure he's not personally responsible for every single business decision, but after the long time of stability and steady growth in structure on development side until Vesperia the changes under Baba can be seen as changes for the worse.

I guess I'm wrong if he brings into Istolia any of the staff gone MIA under him as Tales producer. We'll see.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
duckroll said:
Everyone was so excited about this: www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1328281
Click to expand...
OUTCH !

I guess that's why artwork and detail enable us to talk more...
I guess everyone was cautious and didn't want to have hope ?

ULTROS! said:
You're right: Tales of Vesperia [X360] (August 7, 2008) — brand manager

I guess that means he never produced the best Tales games and all the best ones were produced without his direction (aka Symphonia, Vesperia, Berseria, Abyss)!
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Even then , as a producer , he did try to make the franchise better in his way. The european tour he did for zestria and reached out to the fans in various countries was cool. i enjoyed that a lot as a fan. Even if zestria didn't turn out as i expected , i felt that the game franchise was already recovering by then

Philippo said:
First RPG Factory, now this, and with Baba too?
I love seeing SE trying with new IPs instead of resting on the classics.
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I like that S-E is showing more and more rpgs projects of different sizes and budgets.
I guess the internationnal reception of barevely default and the reception of setsuna showed them that they could go on.

duckroll said:
Baba's looking good! With Matsuda there, this definitely looks like a big get from S-E's perspective. Hope we get transcribes of the interview tomorrow.
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My picture analysis skills made me realise that they are both smiling in this picture , that means that everything's normal !
 
H

HeelPower

Member
That's huge.

Square Enix has Hideo Baba now ? That's honestly a crazy megaton.

Guy is extremely competent and runs his projects efficiently.If this project takes forever then its gonna be SE's upper management fault.
 
P

Philippo

Member
Matsuda is the real MVP at SE, hope it pays all off in the end.

HeelPower said:
That's huge.

Square Enix has Hideo Baba now ? That's honestly a crazy megaton.

Guy is extremely competent and runs his projects efficiently.If this project takes forever then its gonna be SE's upper management fault.
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Yep, didn't he churn out Tales like every year or something? I guess this one will be a little longer becuase new studio and all of that, but still, i'm sure he's a crazy fast producer.
 
C

clay_ghost

Member
Mendrox said:
People thought Alisha would be the heroine of Zestiria or the female counterpart in that Tales game (according to previews etc.). Game released and suddenly Alisha is sidelined after the begining of the game is almost away the whole time. She also wasn't good for the male heroine (he lost his sight when she made a pact with the spirits and all) , but Rose, a assassin, is able to squire just fine with the spirits and is a bit Mary Sue.

People thought that Baba created Rose (who wasn't previewed at all at the begining) because many things Rose does/likes in the game, is the same as her voice actor (who Baba likes) e.g.

Rose's seiyuu's motto is "I am me." Rose's true name is 'Rose is Rose.'
Rose's seiyuu's favorite film is Detective Conan: Assassin in her Eyes (名探偵コナン 瞳の中の暗殺者). Rose's occupation? Assassin.
Rose's seiyuu looooves Detective Conan. The name of the prince Rose was engaged to is Conan in the JP version. Baba's nickname among his peer is also "Prince."

Game felt unfinished and felt like the just put a puzzle together which doesn't give you the correct picture. Many things from the trailers didn't appear at all and more. So Hideo Baba got a big backlash from fans in Japan and the game (like always) got hash reviews on Amazon.co.jp

Hypebole, but I wouldn't be surprised if that game cost him his job at Namco Bandai.
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Many things from the trailers didn't appear at all and more.


Huh, any examples?
 
L

LordKano

Member
I don't know if he directed that one but Tales of Berseria is better than anything Square Enix related since the last five years. So that's a good pick.
 
D

Datschge

Member
Philippo said:
Yep, didn't he churn out Tales like every year or something? I guess this one will be a little longer becuase new studio and all of that, but still, i'm sure he's a crazy fast producer.
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If Berseria was any indication Tales is already in better hands. And Tales development was smoother and faster before Baba joined.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
I see people blaming Baba for the decline of the past few Tales titles and I'm like what? Baba was the producer, not the director of those games. There's generally a big difference between the role of producer and director in game development AFAIK, and director has more creative control over the design philosophy whereas producer is more about managing the project and handling the business side of things. And according to wiki, Baba is the director of Tales of Destiny remake. That's a big fucking win in my book.
 
H

Heyt

Banned
Tales are not poorly directed, they fail to meet release date with adequate polish and content. That's a production issue, not a direction issue. If anything, Zestiria is one of the better directed Tales imo.
 
K

khaaan

Member
Dark_castle said:
I see people blaming Baba for the decline of the past few Tales titles and I'm like what? Baba was the producer, not the director of those games. There's generally a big difference between the role of producer and director in game development AFAIK, and director has more creative control over the design philosophy whereas producer is more about managing the project and handling the business side of things. And according to wiki, Baba is the director of Tales of Destiny remake. That's a big fucking win in my book.
Click to expand...

Dude also had a producer role for Hearts and Graces, both those titles seem to be considered to have the best gameplay of the franchise. I haven't enjoyed all the stuff he's produced but he's got enough of a mixed bag that I don't think it's fair to blame all the shortcomings of the franchise on him.
 
S

Sandfox

Member
khaaan said:
Dude also had a producer role for Hearts and Graces, both those titles seem to be considered to have the best gameplay of the franchise. I haven't enjoyed all the stuff he's produced but he's got enough of a mixed bag that I don't think it's fair to blame all the shortcomings of the franchise on him.
Click to expand...

Graces also launched with a ton of issues and had to be recalled. I'm not going to blame him, but every Tales game since he took over had issues except maybe Hearts.
 
D

Datschge

Member
Dark_castle said:
I see people blaming Baba for the decline of the past few Tales titles and I'm like what? Baba was the producer, not the director of those games. There's generally a big difference between the role of producer and director in game development AFAIK, and director has more creative control over the design philosophy whereas producer is more about managing the project and handling the business side of things. And according to wiki, Baba is the director of Tales of Destiny remake. That's a big fucking win in my book.
Click to expand...
Directors from the Bandai Namco side handle stuff like animation, VA, JPop act etc. Those are certainly what Baba liked to focus on in his PR as well.

Baba's time as the Tales producer coincidences with plenty changes as time went on:
- Destiny PS2 was the first Tales game to get a year after improved version that they kept doing for every single console Tales entry until Xillia 2.
- The team structure at Tales Studio was loosened, and with the subsequent closure of Tales Studio only a barebone Tales team was left (which nowadays relies on massive outsourcing to get the games done)
- 2D Tales games were subsequently moved into irrelevance, with all the 2D staff and much of the long time Tales veterans leaving after the closure of Tales Studio.
- Starting with Xillia development didn't focus on what's feasible but instead opted to be ambitious while constantly designing around PS3 hardware limitations that the Tales team wasn't equipped to handle.
- Development time actually significantly increased (even if that wasn't notable in the West as releases there were still catching up).

As I wrote before he's likely not personally responsible for everything, but all this time he was the contact between publisher/budgeting and the development side. The latter did suffer a lot in this time, and if there is one single person who may have been it the position to make a difference there it's Baba.

Also I find it quite telling that he managed one credit as series producer before leaving. It's obvious he lost enough influence to reconsider his career plans.
 
K

Kasper

Member
Nirolak said:
It's mostly from empirical observation. When he first took over, Matsuda canned just about every new IP (licensed or wholly original) in development at Eidos and Square Enix Japan. He also made statements about how cautious he wanted to be with new IP before investing heavily.

These days, we have Tabata talking up making a new IP, Crystal Dynamics is making a new Avengers franchise, Eidos Montreal is making a Guardians of the Galaxy game, IO Interactive is making a new IP, this is a new studio on a new IP, and even looking at the smaller stuff, we have Tokyo RPG Factory on a new IP, the Bravely Default team on a new IP, and Square Enix Montreal hinting they've been given a lot of leg room. In mobile, they've also shifting a lot of resources toward new franchises.

It's a pretty large shift in behavior.
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Yep, the success of Bravely Default and the failure of games like Hitman: Absolution seems to be what we have to thank for this change. When Matsuda announced the renewed focus three years ago I honestly wasn't expecting Square Enix to go all-in like this with several new studios and lots of new IP.
 
M

Mendrox

Member
clay_ghost said:
Many things from the trailers didn't appear at all and more.


Huh, any examples?
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Lord please let me not dig out all the posts from different sites ala reddit and all. I may do that after work for you, but I remember for example the fight against the dragon where Alisha is with the group in the second or third trailer and in the real game? Nowhere to be seen. Also Alisha being at places in trailers where she can't be in the full game cause of story reasons and more.

Not the best source for that, but there are many other sources for the things in this post:

http://moamonzu.tumblr.com/post/121798687841/was-the-story-of-tales-of-zestiria-changed

Take it as you will.
 
L

LordKano

Member
I was entrusted with a big IP at my previous position, but while doing business development outside of video games, I thought it was about time to pass the baton to my juniors, and at a turning point, I decided to leave the company.
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Yoooooo
 
K

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
It says high end console but I'm wondering if he's just trying to simply create a Tales like clone where he delivers a mid-tier budget JRPG title. Hm.
 
F

Fisico

Member
Mendrox said:
Lord please let me not dig out all the posts from different sites ala reddit and all. I may do that after work for you, but I remember for example the fight against the dragon where Alisha is with the group in the second or third trailer and in the real game? Nowhere to be seen. Also Alisha being at places in trailers where she can't be in the full game cause of story reasons and more.
http://moamonzu.tumblr.com/post/121798687841/was-the-story-of-tales-of-zestiria-changed

Take it as you will.
Click to expand...

You know while not completely wrong, looking at it 100% from a conspiracy point of view is being very ignorant of how game development works.
Something odd happened that's for sure, the only thing certain is that they had no idea what to do with their plot and that's something that goes beyond Alisha.

Anyway everyone should just watch the anime instead of playing the game, it's so much better.
 
K

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Zestiria's plot was a disheveled mess and most likely what happened was a conflict of vision from various people or groups of people. Both in terms plot and from a business standpoint. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to make a prequel midway through the game and decided to change up a lot of stuff.

Regardless, Zestiria was one of the worst Tales games of all time and it definitely showed.
 
N

Night Hunter

Banned
ITT: People need to learn the difference between producer and director.

Someone mentioned Symphonia, Vesperia and Abyss as the 3 best Tales games. Guess what, same director.
 
I

Innolis

Member
Guess Baba finally got tired of never getting a proper budget for his games XD

That concept art looks super good and that dragon/elf one is incredible!

Super exited for this <3
 
T

trejo

Member
Huh. I had no idea that Hideo Baba had left Bamco.

Judging by the positive reception Berseria has been getting it's gonna be interesting to see where the Tales series goes from here.
 
B

bunkitz

Member
Yo, Hideo Baba? Nice. Totally digging the art, and more fantasy RPG's are a must, so sign me up. That, uhh, watered down Kupo, though. Err. A'ight.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Square-Enix got Hideo Baba?

giphy.gif


Alisha's revenge.
 
H

Hibiki Kurosawa

Member
Wait, I missed the news that he left Namco? The title.of the studio is funny though, sounds like the Tales influence may transfer over. Pretty excited about this even if he was in charge of the Tales games while they went bad.
 
R

Rpgmonkey

Member
Pretty interesting.

The Tales team seems to have acclimated ivery well to Fukaya's leadership/management and Baba gets to try a new IP, so I guess the outcome to this could have been a lot worse. :p
 
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