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[Phades]

Only until you start to abuse the geography to turn the 5-spread into 4,3, or 2 spreads populated by multiple enemies.

Doing a GSed Heaven Knight SCC will give you a whole new appreciation for the class. Easily one of the most interesting and fun SCCs you'll ever do. Makes you really take a look at the maps in a way even the Geomancer SCC doesn't do.

Yeah, the geo restrictions assist in targeting of the skill and I know it can hit hard 5-6 (?) times.

Spoiler

Crap, I can't remember right in regard to reflect mail and shenanigans with this spell or not...

What I was getting at though, was the times where it hits once or twice making it not seem as cool as it can be potentially rendering the random element annoying to deal with.

Conversely, breaking the game via SPD and just simply commencing the unholy melee beat down on folks is sooooo much easier. It is less visually satisfying though.

 

[djtiesto]

Gordon from FF2 is horrible... thankfully he's a temp character, but he starts off extremely underpowered, with no unique abilities, and unless you want to spend hours leveling him up

Spoiler

by having him trade blows back and forth with your party

its not even worth it since he's gone in 2 dungeons anyways...

 

[Zaku]

Yeah, the geo restrictions assist in targeting of the skill and I know it can hit hard 5-6 (?) times.

Spoiler

Crap, I can't remember right in regard to reflect mail and shenanigans with this spell or not...

What I was getting at though, was the times where it hits once or twice making it not seem as cool as it can be potentially rendering the random element annoying to deal with.

Conversely, breaking the game via SPD and just simply commencing the unholy melee beat down on folks is sooooo much easier. It is less visually satisfying though.

That's part of the reason Rafa's skills are so good. Unlike the quadratic equations most other Job classes have as part of their damage calculation, Rafa's damage is simple: Her (MA + individual skill power) / 2 * MA. Her power literally increases exponentially as her MA ticks upwards, with an MA of ~30 leaving her with near max damage for any skill she uses.

Also, her skills hit 1-6 times randomly and laugh in the face of Reflect, Protect, Shell, or any reaction abilities your opponent might have. You're there? You're fucked, son.

Ironically, as unpredictable as her skills are during the actual striking phase, if they hit the damage is straight up guaranteed. Like I said. If you can get your opponents to mob together in tight places, Rafa can turn them into chunky salsa with incredible ease.

Don't get me wrong: She's not in the top tier of FFT characters by any stretch, but her Job class has some real utility and advantages if you're willing to work with it a bit.

Rafa thrives on choke points, because she'll choke the shit out of anyone who says anything bad about her.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Yup, their job title sound badass, but they are a wuss and a deadweight to party.

Rafa can do insane damage if she gets lucky and you have the enemy cornered. Underrated.

 

[Zaku]

Rafa can do insane damage if she gets lucky and you have the enemy cornered. Underrated.

*high five*

There are two kinds of people: Those who think Rafa is weak, and those who've used her extensively on the battlefield.

I'd take Rafa over anyone but TG Cid, Mustadio, or Agrias any day of the week.

 

[Phades]

*high five*

There are two kinds of people: Those who think Rafa is weak, and those who've used her extensively on the battlefield.

I'd take Rafa over anyone but TG Cid, Mustadio, or Agrias any day of the week.

Naked ramza could take Cid though given how the game works. =/

Straight up fair fight? Not likely, but dance around a bit and start acting 4-5 times to his one? Most definately.

 

[Videoneon]

I think we've gotten to the point in this topic where underpowered can just roughly translate to "generally worse than everyone else", so that being said--

In Super Mario RPG, by the end game Bowser is a waste of time. There is tanking equipment out there as is, and Mario is super capable offensively while Peach is uber support.

In the Golden Sun GBA duology, I think Garet and Piers blow. Anything I tried to get Piers to do, everyone else was better out of Felix, Isaac, Jenna, and Mia. Garet I just never found as useful as Felix and Isaac who are awesome.

In Radiant Historia, Rosch is significantly less useful compared to the other party members.

 

[Zaku]

Naked ramza could take Cid though given how the game works. =/

Straight up fair fight? Not likely, but dance around a bit and start acting 4-5 times to his one? Most definately.

Given the dumb AI, yes.

That's why FFT v1.3 was invented. To challenge people who like FFT.

 

[Lindsay]

Noel just plain sucks lol. Outta the 3 "mage" type characters ya get in Star Ocean 2 never ever pick him!

Pump up his HP with Cheerful breads and give him a quick ring so you can have him fight constantly enough to gain levels. There maybe something I'm not remembering because Kiwi always did his flame breathe attack when I used him. It's not until I went online did I learn he has a standard attack.

Ya must be super lucky cause the flame breath is not something which should come up that often just like Adam's laser and other unique character moves which're basically critical hits.

Yuffie is the best person to morph monsters. Her conformer attack is always based on the level of the enemy, so it works better against stronger ones. Morph usually reduces the attack power of the person who uses it but conformer ignores that so Yuffie can farm those sources rather easily, which you can use to max anyone's stats out.

wtf? I always thought her ultimate weapon power was based on how much materia she had equipped. What crappy guide that I must've read forever ago came up with that?!

I'm going to trigger PHANTASY STAR ONLINE fogies and mention MOME

he kinda counts even if temporary.

Or permenantly if hacking cheaters MOME your character... x_x

Luvdisc just doesn't reach any redeeming point even if maxed out with moves. Ok...it's literal only redeeming quality is killing them for Heart Scales.

Ya don't gotta knock 'em out just use Thief! Plus they were introduced in Gen III which means maybe they are/were useful in double battles?

 

[KittenMaster]

Noel just plain sucks lol. Outta the 3 "mage" type characters ya get in Star Ocean 2 never ever pick him!

I forgot about him. Wasn't he a completely worse and redundant Rena? I can barely remember how bad his abilities were because I ditched him so fast.

I will never forget one thing about him though:

Spoiler

EEEEEEEENNNNERRGYYYYYYYY ARRRRRRRROOOOOOWW.

 

[Lulubop]

Noel is a good answer, he's complete shit.

 

[Zaku]

I forgot about him. Wasn't he a completely worse and redundant Rena? I can barely remember how bad his abilities were because I ditched him so fast.

I will never forget one thing about him though:

Spoiler

EEEEEEEENNNNERRGYYYYYYYY ARRRRRRRROOOOOOWW.

Pretty much.

He was a good all-around mage, but by that point you've got a bunch of mages who can each do one thing better than he can ever possibly do, and one of the few areas he's more than decent at is likely also an area the main character you chose fifty hours ago can cover.

Noel's timing is rather unfortunate, in the grand scheme of things.

He really should have been swapped with Celine, ability-wise. A secondary healer and all-around spellcaster would have been useful early on, before being discarded as players figured out their playstyle and what party worked for them.

Last act of the game? I used Precis more, and I rarely used her. God Noel's useless.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

This is definitely wrong. If you actually know how to use tactics in P3, she won't even try to charm enemies at all. But it seems a lot of people just keep the default tactics of "act freely", and complain afterwards when that's exactly what the party members do.

And Mitsuru is probably one of the more powerful characters anyway. Those mind charged, amped bufudynes do a ton of damage.

Oh, you are so right. You know to change it to Heal/Support AND SHE THEN SPENDS THE FUCKING BATTLE REMOVING ICE RESISTANCE THEN REPEATS IT AS IT FALLS OFF NEVER CASTING THOSE BEAST DYNES YOU SPEAK OF.

Why can't you turn off spells in P3 like Star Ocean and Tales? Why why why why

I forgot about him. Wasn't he a completely worse and redundant Rena? I can barely remember how bad his abilities were because I ditched him so fast.

I will never forget one thing about him though:

Spoiler

EEEEEEEENNNNERRGYYYYYYYY ARRRRRRRROOOOOOWW.

Spoiler

"FOOEEEEEEEHHHHHHNNNN"

It was wierd that in a game with 16 elements, your use of some were so restricted or underpowered by the time you needed them, and he encapsulates that with Wind and Earth.

 

[Videoneon]

Oh yeah--

in Skies of Arcadia, the worst character was Gilder, not Fina. Gilder's stats are just alright and he doesn't have any skill that's uber godlike.

I would rank it-

Vyse (fucks everything up and is strong and builds up Spirit)
Aika (fast. that's really all you need. magic not too important)
Fina (Aika is useful more often, but Fina is great for those dire situations where you need to clutch it out, excellent support skills)
Enrique (Justice Shield, good defense, nice enough)
Drachma (Hand of Fate if you pull it off, SPirit)
Gilder (Gunslinger? Aura of Denial...ehh, very situational)

 

[Requeim]

Oh, you are so right. You know to change it to Heal/Support AND SHE THEN SPENDS THE FUCKING BATTLE REMOVING ICE RESISTANCE THEN REPEATS IT AS IT FALLS OFF NEVER CASTING THOSE BEAST DYNES YOU SPEAK OF.

Why can't you turn off spells in P3 like Star Ocean and Tales? Why why why why

Putting a character on heal/support when you want them to deal damage, is not really what i would call good use of the tactics system. It's actually really simple, and if you use it correctly, the party members will do exactly what you want them to. But you have to know what the tactics themselves do, obviously. And not use "act freely" at all.

Edit: So in your case, you're basically angry that Mitsuru is using support skills, even though you're the one who's telling her to.

Edit2: And "Conserve SP" effectively does exactly what you ask, as should be obvious by its name.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Tactics

 

[KittenMaster]

Pretty much.

He was a good all-around mage, but by that point you've got a bunch of mages who can each do one thing better than he can ever possibly do, and one of the few areas he's more than decent at is likely also an area the main character you chose fifty hours ago can cover.

Noel's timing is rather unfortunate, in the grand scheme of things.

He really should have been swapped with Celine, ability-wise. A secondary healer and all-around spellcaster would have been useful early on, before being discarded as players figured out their playstyle and what party worked for them.

Last act of the game? I used Precis more, and I rarely used her. God Noel's useless.

Switching Noel and Celine would've just made it so that you wouldn't have a pure offensive spellcaster for a long time (not that it would be useful, but flavor is nice), and only if you chose the correct main character for it, and it would've resulted in a sub-par addition to your party when by then you have a full lineup of physical attackers.

But yeah, Noel is hurt both by the timing of his arrival and his design. Even Adray in Star Ocean 3 had the novelty of being a worse version of the main spellcaster that comes much earlier to supplant that role.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Both Black Belt and Thief are borderline useless in Final Fantasy 1.

Black Belt is basically most of the Fire Emblem characters posted in the overpowered characters thread where you have to train him to an obscenely high level to actually see the damage output he is known for. In realistic terms, unless you deliberately do a lot of unnecessary grinding then you won't see his damage output become great until around level 20... and that is endgame. He has trouble penetrating enemy defenses until late game and doesn't have great defenses himself.

Thief is... Thief. I do give him points for having very minor utility in letting you run from anything you want early game at low levels, though.

What's interesting is how these classes interact with the game's bizarre difficulty curve. The Thief's ability to run from battle does help a lot in the Marsh Cave, where you need all the help you can get. It's not really worth putting up with a terrible character for the rest of the game, but at least it's something.

Black Belt starts to come into their own right at the point of the game where the difficulty takes a complete nosedive and can be dominating at the point where it doesn't really matter any more. They are cheap to maintain I guess, but what good is that if the character isn't any good when it counts?

Really the problem with most classes in FF1 is they have to compete with Fighter and Red Mage though. The classes just aren't well balanced at all.

 

[ShiroAmakusa]

Well, if you're willing to stretch RPG to include the adventure genre, Jeff from Maniac Mansion qualifies easily.

Just like Dave, the mandatory main character, and unlike any other playable character, Jeff posesses no ability to beat the game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Every other pokémon answer is incorrect. Especially Magikarp.

Nah, Luvdisc gives you Heart Scales. I don't think Unown gives you anything.

 

[BasilZero]

0 post got it.

Edward.....I hate you Edward ;(

 

[Ultratech]

Oh yeah--

in Skies of Arcadia, the worst character was Gilder, not Fina. Gilder's stats are just alright and he doesn't have any skill that's uber godlike.

I would rank it-

Vyse (fucks everything up and is strong and builds up Spirit)
Aika (fast. that's really all you need. magic not too important)
Fina (Aika is useful more often, but Fina is great for those dire situations where you need to clutch it out, excellent support skills)
Enrique (Justice Shield, good defense, nice enough)
Drachma (Hand of Fate if you pull it off, SPirit)
Gilder (Gunslinger? Aura of Denial...ehh, very situational)

Aura of Denial is godlike for bounties/boss fights.

Status Effects can wreck your shit pretty quick in the bounty fights.

 

[Dice//]

Noel just plain sucks lol. Outta the 3 "mage" type characters ya get in Star Ocean 2 never ever pick him!

By the end-game you might as well lump all three spell-casters in here for capping usually the 9999 damage limit but with spells that only hit once (+ needed casting time). In the end it was just way more efficient to have three attackers and Rena (or Opera).

 

[theprodigy]

99% of archers in Fire Emblem (aka everyone except FE10 Shinon, Innes, Briggid, and Faval)

 

[Dresden]

Doing a GSed Heaven Knight SCC will give you a whole new appreciation for the class. Easily one of the most interesting and fun SCCs you'll ever do. Makes you really take a look at the maps in a way even the Geomancer SCC doesn't do.

Damn, I want to do this now. Too many games.

 

[Zaku]

Damn, I want to do this now. Too many games.

H... Have you not? /Archer

*BAM!, double reference!*

Also?

Phrasing.

 

[blankempathy]

I seem to remember Sabin, motherfuckin' suplexin' trains and all, wasn't that much useful.
Edgar? was amazing with his machines.

Are you crazy? He has strong single attack blitz like bum rush and pretty strong AOE ones like fire dance plus can heal. Great in boss fights or just clearing trash mobs.

 

[PK Gaming]

*high five*

There are two kinds of people: Those who think Rafa is weak, and those who've used her extensively on the battlefield.

I'd take Rafa over anyone but TG Cid, Leading Man Balthier, or Agrias any day of the week.

Fixed






...

Just kidding.

It was pretty disgusting how Balthier straight up overshadowed Mustadio in the PSP version though.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Are you crazy? He has strong single attack blitz like bum rush and pretty strong AOE ones like fire dance plus can heal. Great in boss fights or just clearing trash mobs.

Honestly, by FF6 standards, he's average to below average. Bum Rush is nice, sure, but he's a character with a primarily magical skillset who has low base magic power and pretty lousy equipment options. Of course, average to below average in FF6 is still pretty overpowered, and certainly doesn't count as "hilariously underpowered."

 

[dorkkaos]

Fixed






...

Just kidding.

It was pretty disgusting how Balthier straight up overshadowed Mustadio in the PSP version though.

Barrage is ridiculously OP hahah.

 

[Plywood]

What, no Rafa and Malak?!

Uhm Malak just needed lowered faith and raised bravery and he was great. You don't know what you're talking about. Same with Rafa.

 

[SkyOdin]

What a wrong, wrong, wrong response.

EDIT: This thread has too many factually wrong responses, I'm out.

How on earth are you calling Jagen a factually wrong answer to a thread about underpowered characters? Jegan is terrible. He starts out as a level 21 character with stats barely higher than the level 1 characters who join at the same time. Even after doubling his growth rates in the DS remake, he is still likely to only gain 4 to 5 stat points in each category over 19 level ups. He starts out bad and is completely unsalvageable. And this is the version that is significantly buffed up over his original stats!

 

[Parfait]

What, no Rafa and Malak?!

Rafa and Malak were arguably, and randomly, the strongest characters in the game.

They have the only multi-hitting skill/magic I remember, aside from dual-wielding. My shining moment was Rafa practically 1-shotting a boss, it was probably Ultima, from pure luck.

Even without their skills, they were still decent characters otherwise.

If you want useless from FFT, try Reis. Cool sprite, at least.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Putting a character on heal/support when you want them to deal damage, is not really what i would call good use of the tactics system. It's actually really simple, and if you use it correctly, the party members will do exactly what you want them to. But you have to know what the tactics themselves do, obviously. And not use "act freely" at all.

Edit: So in your case, you're basically angry that Mitsuru is using support skills, even though you're the one who's telling her to.

Edit2: And "Conserve SP" effectively does exactly what you ask, as should be obvious by its name.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Tactics

And she does it when you select the byzantinely-described and arcanely-named Full Assault, too if ANYTHING is resistant or above in Ice.

And is incredibly erratic with Knock Down in effect, even to the point of passing.

In fact, everything but Stand By and Attack Fallen have crippling algorithm flaws and require babysitting or work arounds to function correctly which are amplified by Mitsuru's spellset.

Cracking the code of what their names and the concept of switching tactics are very basic ideas, and to put so much faith that it's what's harranguing an unknown debater is a highly questionable tactic at best.

Now don't YOU want to change tactics?

 

[HolyCheck]

Lesson god damn one of these threads.

Post game and character

Edit: didn't mean to post that. Just typed up an angry reply then went to close the window as I usually do but accidently clicked post

 

[Zaku]

Uhm Malak just needed lowered faith and raised bravery and he was great. You don't know what you're talking about. Same with Rafa.

No, Malak is genuinely shit.

Rafa's abilities are primarily useful because the strength of them increases exponentially based solely on her MA.

Malak's abilities are a clusterfuck which require low Faith for him AND for his target.

He's Rafa with a stupid qualifier to his abilities on a skill which already relies on random target designation.

Fixed






...

Just kidding.

It was pretty disgusting how Balthier straight up overshadowed Mustadio in the PSP version though.

I hate PSP FFT.

Between the faux OIde Englisshe tone and everything else, it's just terribad.

 

[KittenMaster]

What's interesting is how these classes interact with the game's bizarre difficulty curve. The Thief's ability to run from battle does help a lot in the Marsh Cave, where you need all the help you can get. It's not really worth putting up with a terrible character for the rest of the game, but at least it's something.

Black Belt starts to come into their own right at the point of the game where the difficulty takes a complete nosedive and can be dominating at the point where it doesn't really matter any more. They are cheap to maintain I guess, but what good is that if the character isn't any good when it counts?

Really the problem with most classes in FF1 is they have to compete with Fighter and Red Mage though. The classes just aren't well balanced at all.

I believe that to an extent that the Thief's running helps in the Ice Cave as well when you want to leave it (and him dying before anyone else is not a huge loss). Thieves are still bad (and are a class that makes your party worse if you put more than one in) but I do think they can be put to niche use.

Also, technically Fighters are cheap to maintain as well, because you can just find all of their stuff in treasure chests and buying spells is more important early on than getting them a Silver Sword. Probably the most expensive investment you'll need is a Short Sword in Pravoka.

 

[NineH]

Amy is one of the top tier characters in PS2

In the other hand, Shir sucks in every kind of way, followed by Hugh

If I am remembering right, the strongest weapon she can equip were laser knives and that was before the Dezo planet so she was truly weak as a party member. Her stealing the Visiphone, Moon Dew and Star Mist was invaluable though.

 

[Laconic]

That's true but you can get through those parts pretty well without him and generate experience for characters that are useful throughout the game. I'm not a fan of Kain or Hugh since they're too specialized. You're probably right about Shir. I don't think I've ever used her in battle but she's incredibly useful for generating the visiphone, equipment and items. There's no way I could beat the game without her. I think the next time I play, I'll try to endgame with Shir, Hugh and Amy.

Wat

Seriously... Kain enters the game at the time when Tech Enemies just pop up.

And since all of the Dezoris enemies are inexplicably weak to his Tech Skills, he is arguably the third best character for end-game.

My fourth slot fluxuated between Amy and Anna, but the first three were always Rudo, Rolf, Wrecker.

 

[kswiston]

Meg in Radiant Dawn 1000x

It is easier to win a no casualty fight with one man short of the unit limit than it is if you bringi Meg along.

 

[PK Gaming]

Meg in Radiant Dawn 1000x

It is easier to win a no casualty fight with one man short of the unit limit than it is if you bringi Meg along.

On runs where you don't care about casualties, she's actually somewhat useful

I like to use her as a disposable meatshield

 

[Mental Atrophy]

While we are at it:

Hahn Mahlay from the Genesis masterpiece Phantasy Star 4

Nope. Hahn is the best variable slot. HIs tech selection is great, including an instant death ability.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Valkyrie Profile 1 is the only game I know where "LOL KATANAS SUCK"

Also archers suck unless you're Lenneth and Janus.

 

[squidyj]

This stupid motherfucker

i.... I used a mod to give him a second specialization and made him my main tank, with wynne and morrigan, it was the party where everybody hated everybody.

 

[Captain Star]

Myself in Wasteland 2. Shitty stats because I didn't know what I was doing and now I'm several hours into the game so I can't start over.

He can wield shotguns but he can't get close enough to use them effectively. If an enemy does happen to be close enough, he still manages to miss half the time, or his weapon will jam and he'll have to waste another turn unjamming it. Meanwhile, the rest of my party members are picking off enemies left and right no problem.

His role right now is to soak up damage, and he's not even good at that.

He sucks and I hate him.

 

[Laconic]

Nope. Hahn is the best variable slot. HIs tech selection is great, including an instant death ability.

Pretty much this.

I go with Griz, for PS4.

 

[PK Gaming]

Myself in Wasteland 2. Shitty stats because I didn't know what I was doing and now I'm several hours into the game so I can't start over.

He can wield shotguns but he can't get close enough to use them effectively. If an enemy does happen to be close enough, he still manages to miss half the time, or his weapon will jam and he'll have to waste another turn unjamming it. Meanwhile, the rest of my party members are picking off enemies left and right no problem.

His role right now is to soak up damage, and he's not even good at that.

He sucks and I hate him.

Reading this post made burst out laughing in class, so at least he was good for something