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[Suikoguy]

Denying the RNC funds is a good thing. Nothing wrong with making the pitch.

People would worry that they would owe them favors, but honestly the donation for favors line is bullshit. Actions for donations or actions for continued donations is far more effective from a psychological perspective.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I am describing Sanders voters that are Bernie or Bust as opposed to Sanders voters who, in the event that Sanders loses the Dem nom, might be open to voting for Clinton.

So, a lot of X or bust people are just heated and aren't serious like people saying they will leave the country if X wins? I... Honestly never thought of it that way and now feel a little foolish for not realizing it. I guess the election does have ways to go. Like, I know at the same time people who are die-hard serious about X or bust, but you are right, it might not be all, or even most of them at this rate.

Most Sanders voters will vote for Clinton

Bernie or Bust who actually follow through are not democrats and probably never will, they are fringe voters who can properly be ignored because their views on things are quite irrational and not bound to the reality of politics or how the world operates.

That's a longer way of saying nobody gives a shit to Bernie or Bust people.

 

[B-Dubs]

I think had the the 'Mexicans are rapists' line not come out, I think Trump could have run pretty successfully on just the Muslim boogeyman. I also think he has personal flaws that make him a terrible candidate with women voters. But I do think his message could be very successful in future cycles and be the main driver of the realignment.

It's not the populism that makes him popular, if it were there were any number of racist things he's said or done that should have sunk him, it's his racism that makes him popular. He dresses up his racism in some vague populism to give his supporters cover, but make no mistake: he's popular because of his racism.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Hillary is closer to the moderate Republicans than to Bernie supporters.

LOL

this election has been fantastic. i'm convinced there's an elementary school somewhere that allows children access to gaf and y'all make it to these threads somehow

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Don't not forget about the Bernie or Bust Sanders voters though.

Only adults are allowed to vote

 

[Mii]

It's not the populism that makes him popular, if it were there were any number of racist things he's said or done that should have sunk him, it's his racism that makes him popular. He dresses up his racism in some vague populism to give his supporters cover, but make no mistake: he's popular because of his racism.

I agree that the racism helps him gain the extreme loyalty of some of his base, but I don't think it had to go to the degree he took it. He is giving solutions to people's fears about their future (despite however ineffective the solutions may be). Namely, he has made the point that Non-'Americans' are harming 'Americans' and he is here to put an end to it. He is very good at creating villains and 'Us vs Them' discussions. It leads to people being extremely loyal to him since they believe he has their back.

That didn't require specifically calling Mexicans rapists. He could have been a bit more creative about it, but in the end, it will hurt him in the general. Losing the women vote because of his personal flaws was the death blow though.

 

[Wilsongt]

I expect another spin off HA Goodman hit piece dealing with this article in the morning. followed another 15 minute video.

 

[Crayons]

Don't not forget about the Bernie or Bust Sanders voters though.

Double negatives

 

[ibyea]

That's ridiculously untrue, and just shows how warped this primary is. Hillary was the 11th most liberal senator in the senate. She was to the left of Obama. She's been the target of Republican smears and hate campaigns for *30 years* because she's too liberal.

And now suddenly she's practically a moderate republican? Whilst the guy she voted 93% of the time in lockstep with is a mile away from her?

That view is not exactly warped, the post Reagan Democratic party overall has been center right in many of its policies. Of course, it is wrong to say it is just a Clinton problem because it's not, and I feel like people focus too much on her as if all her problem was only from her when the whole democratic party suffers it. To give an example, take even the celebrated ACA. This is a law that if I were senator I would have voted for since any improvement is better than none, but this is a conservative plan to health care reform, made by conservative and implemented first by Romney in Massachusetts. The reform is not nearly enough, but I personally accept it in the hopes that it is a stepping stone to a better future health care law.

 

[grumble]

That's ridiculously untrue, and just shows how warped this primary is. Hillary was the 11th most liberal senator in the senate. She was to the left of Obama. She's been the target of Republican smears and hate campaigns for *30 years* because she's too liberal.

And now suddenly she's practically a moderate republican? Whilst the guy she voted 93% of the time in lockstep with is a mile away from her?

Honestly I think that this is people being affected by the republican smear campaign. For decades they have said that she's a lying untrustworthy shill etc and over time even democrats start to believe it.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Boo urns. I was hoping this was true.

 

[Madness]

Nah, I'm not buying this. Sanders supporters would be easier to get than "big Republican donors."

They would. Which is probably why it makes sense to do a greater outreach for the #NeverTrump GOP crowd no? She is assured the democrats will vote for her but imagine if she can steal a lot of centrist or moderate or even anti-Trump tea party republicans.

 

[univariate]

edit: nevermind

 

[Suikoguy]

That view is not exactly warped, the post Reagan Democratic party overall has been center right in many of its policies. Of course, it is wrong to say it is just a Clinton problem because it's not, and I feel like people focus too much on her as if all her problem was only from her when the whole democratic party suffers it. To give an example, take even the celebrated ACA. This is a law that if I were senator I would have voted for since any improvement is better than none, but this is a conservative plan to health care reform, made by conservative and implemented first my Romney in Massachusetts. The reform is not nearly enough, but I personally accept it in the hopes that it is a stepping stone to a better future health care law.

The ACA compromises were for blue dog democrats (which are now mostly gone). It's not the party, it's the country. The bigger you need to make your tent to get elected, the more compromises you will need to make.

She's far worse than I thought. I'm finding it very difficult to support this candidate.

I would bitch at you for not reading the OP, but the OP lied too.

 

[smurfx]

So it seems Clinton is far more interested in courting disaffected Republicans than she is for Bernie Sanders supporters

well most sanders supporters are likely going to vote for her. some moderate republicans might vote for her instead of trump so would be wrong with courting them?

 

[NIGHT-]

Hillary is closer to the moderate Republicans than to Bernie supporters.

Pretty much

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Hillary is closer to the moderate Republicans than to Bernie supporters.

Sure Jan

 

[univariate]

I would bitch at you for not reading the OP, but the OP lied too.

I know, I edited my post immediately after making it.

 

[ibyea]

The ACA compromises were for blue dog democrats (which are now mostly gone). It's not the party, it's the country. The bigger you need to make your tent to get elected, the more compromises you will need to make.

I know it's a compromise and like I said I would have voted for it if I were a senator. But I was observing politics back in that day and what I saw was the Democratic party not fighting nearly hard enough for liberal causes. And I don't mean that it is wrong to compromise, but compromise should be reached after some sort of negotiation and fighting (I don't mean fighting in the literal sense). What I saw was constant capitulation without even trying that was across the board consistent. Heck, even in his hiring it was the same, hiring for example people like Rahm Emanuel, who had a clear disdain for the progressive cause. And that is because post Reagan the democratic party adjusted themselves to center right. It is the party, it is a choice the party made as a whole when they lost. Which is fine, I get the reality of politics, but we shouldn't pretend they are the high mark of progressiveness or that they don't have any conflict of interests. I think the party is changing though and the third way democrats are slowly on the way out.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Pretty much

How? Please explain this to me. In terms of policies not 'establishment backing'.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Pretty much

Show your work.

 

[Rentahamster]

This is stated everytime there is a story about a pro-Hillary pac. People just doesn't seem to or want to understand that Hillary Clinton campaign aren't in charge of, or directing these guys.

But I thought one of the large bases of the "SuperPACs suck" argument is that while they can't collude on paper, it's pretty much impossible to prove that they aren't. And, that with all the money being thrown around, it's fairly likely that they are, in some kind of capacity, if not directly, then indirectly.

In other words, someone who is vehemently against SuperPACs who is also dismissing this as "not a big deal" makes me think that one or both of those positions is disingenuously held.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Nah, I'm not buying this. Sanders supporters would be easier to get than "big Republican donors."

Nope.

 

[Stinkles]

It's super weird how businesses that generally benefit from Democratic economies are still run by Atlas Shrugged morons who continue to chase short term tax breaks and quarterly earnings over actual growth.

Pretty much

Apart from hundreds of other things, supreme court. Please stop voting.

 

[Suikoguy]

Nope.

I think the sane Sanders supporters will be easier, and she can use direct campaign contributions from them for that. You may be right though about the insane sect.

 

[Alucrid]

I know, I edited my post immediately after making it.

i don't understand why you're supporting hillary

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201940663&postcount=358

 

[Y2Kev]

look at me look at me

 

[RPGCrazied]

i don't understand why you're supporting hillary

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201940663&postcount=358

Because she isn't a raving lunatic? That is reason enough, for me anyways.

 

[ibyea]

Nope.

There are way more Sanders supporters who would rather Clinton win. Having a few of the loudest people shout out at the top of their voice and dominating conversations does not a majority make.

 

[Alucrid]

Because she isn't a raving lunatic? That is reason enough, for me anyways.

did you not click the link?

 

[Y2Kev]

Because she isn't a raving lunatic? That is reason enough, for me anyways.

He's saying why are you finding it "hard" to "support" this candidate when less than a month ago you said you wouldn't support her at all. aka look at me look at me

 

[RPGCrazied]

did you not click the link?

He's saying why are you finding it "hard" to "support" this candidate when less than a month ago you said you wouldn't support her at all. aka look at me look at me

I must have missed something. I clicked on that post and it was some person saying they would vote Trump over her. Sorry.

 

[Y2Kev]

I must have missed something. I clicked on that post and it was some person saying they would vote Trump over her. Sorry.

The poster is coming from inside the house

 

[Krejlooc]

Didn't Jeb Bush's top donor say he'd vote for Clinton if Trump won the nomination?

 

[Riddick]

How? Please explain this to me. In terms of policies not 'establishment backing'.

Neo-con tactics: Libyan "intervention", Honduras coup d' etat
Neoliberal tactics: Where do I start? From her close ties to Wall Street and specifically bankers to her changing her mind depending who bribes her.

And I'm just being lazy here. There are entire lists that prove point by point how crooked she is.

 

[Suikoguy]

Neo-con tactics: Libyan "intervention", Honduras coup d' etat
Neoliberal tactics: Where do I start? From her close ties to Wall Street and specifically bankers to her changing her mind depending who bribes her.

And I'm just being lazy here. There are entire lists that prove point by point how crooked she is.

Do you all get your talking points from a single website? Oh wait, don't answer that.

 

[GnawtyDog]

There are way more Sanders supporters who would rather Clinton win. Having a few of the loudest people shout out at the top of their voice and dominating conversations does not a majority make.

We're not taking about getting votes. We're talking about actually donating money. The majority supporting (with money) Sanders campaign won't do the same - of that I am sure.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Nope.

95%+ of Sanders' supporters will vote for Hillary. The number is at 85% or so now and will only go up.

We're not taking about getting votes. We're talking about actually donating money. The majority supporting (with money) Sanders campaign won't do the same - of that I am sure.

This is based on absolutely nothing and completely contradicted by every single poll that's ever been done.

 

[Riddick]

Do you all get your talking points from a single website? Oh wait, don't answer that.

Do you actually have any decent counter-arguments about Libya, Honduras or the hundreds of thousands of dollars she has received from the bankers in bribes for her speeches? (just ones of the MANY examples) Oh wait, don't answer that.

 

[RDreamer]

Makes sense. Now's a good time to grab those donors when there's a bit air of anger against Trump and Republicans are coming out against him. Things might turn the other way soon so you may as well get that cash now.

 

[UltimaPooh]

No, Hillary Clinton is not doing this.



Really?

Right. And Super PACs and the candidates never ever talk to each other.

 

[Netherscourge]

Nah, I'm not buying this. Sanders supporters would be easier to get than "big Republican donors."

The implication is that she is taking the Sanders supporters for granted, assuming their allegiance, and focusing on defundung Trump.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Right. And Super PACs and the candidates never ever talk to each other.

This isn't even a Super PAC. It's just some random people.

The implication is that she is taking the Sanders supporters for granted, assuming their allegiance.

Considering the vast majority of them will vote for her, this is a safe assumption by her.

 

[Alucrid]

The implication is that she is taking the Sanders supporters for granted, assuming their allegiance, and focusing on defundung Trump.

some people trying to get republican donor's money doesn't mean that hillary isn't trying or won't try to court sander's bloc

 

[Suikoguy]

Do you actually have any decent counter-arguments about Libya, Honduras or the hundreds of thousands of dollars she has received from the bankers in bribes for her speeches? (just ones of the MANY examples) Oh wait, don't answer that.

Yeah, Honduras, read this thread. Please present what should have been done, the same with Libya.

Next, please provide evidence of her apparent corruption since you are so sure of it. It must be pretty damn easy to find some evidence.

 

[GnawtyDog]

This is based on absolutely nothing and completely contradicted by every single poll that's ever been done.

About the willingness of Sander supporters to donate money to Hillary's campaign or Pacs? Where's that poll? Not to mention the far cry from willingness to the actual donation or the nature of polling. But anyway give me that poll.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The Clintons and Bushes are actually good friends, Jeb being a mess notwithstanding.

http://observer.com/2016/03/the-troubling-friendship-of-hillary-clinton-and-george-w-bush/

Hillary courting Bush donors should surprise no one. In the past few decades, as the Republicans have proven themselves not electable in major cities and for the Presidency, corporations and wealthy donors have begun donating heavily to the Democrats. After all, in the end it doesn't actually matter WHO is in office as long you made sure you bought and paid for them. Their party is irrelevant.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/04/why-democrats-are-becoming-the-party-of-the-1-percent

 

[JABEE]

This is stated everytime there is a story about a pro-Hillary pac. People just doesn't seem to or want to understand that Hillary Clinton campaign aren't in charge of, or directing these guys.

Is this a joke?

 

[HariKari]

Is this a joke?

No. You'll see a lot of "Hillary isn't bad or representative of the establishment in any way, I swear guys" on GAF. Only place I've ever seen it. Everywhere else, people at least admit she's a little sketchy.

 

[MartyStu]

Don't not forget about the Bernie or Bust Sanders voters though.

They will fall in line when Sanders gets enough concessions from the DNC to pacify them.

The fact that Trump is polling so well thus far is going to scare the DNC to agreeing to a lot.