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[Amir0x]

What a wonderful election it has been. First Trump pivots towards hiking taxes on the rich and flirting with raising the minimum wage, and now Clinton is resuming to what she was doing 8 years ago:





So it seems Clinton is far more interested in courting disaffected Republicans than she is for Bernie Sanders supporters

Do you even think about how you sound when you say nonsense bullshit like this? Bernie supporters are gonna vote for her en masse anyway, since it always happens, and it has always happened for candidates with supporters far more virulent than Bernie's. We have a zillion data points supporting that indisputable fact, and you have zilch supporting your probable idea that she needs to work particularly hard for them. Give it up already - Hillary won, she's gonna get Bernie supporters, and she is simply taking advantage of so many Republicans supreme disdain and fear of Trump to try to raise even more money.

If that's a problem for you, stop following politics already. This isn't even a category 1 threat, christ.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Except Hillary isn't running to the right at all - she's just telling them, "hey, you want to make sure the crazy asshole doesn't win, I'm right here, even if you disagree with me a lot, we both believe in the basic structure of the government."

The status quo of a Hillary presidency should be more appealing to them anyways. 4-8 more years of the same grandstanding, gridlock, and inaction.

 

[theignoramus]

I think Hillary could be one of these uniquely 'great' presidents, those who aggressively confront external challenges abroad while advancing a socially progressive agenda at home. LBJ was probably the last like that.

"Aggressively confront external challenges abroad" like LBJ. So getting America entangled in bloody and costly interventions that make the facts on the ground even worse. Sounds promising.

 

[Alrus]

Because he didn't ask mega corporations and banks for money?

He's outspending her by millions. Clearly money isn't the issue.

 

[theignoramus]

Yeah, gotta vote for the candidate advocating for committing War Crimes.
What exactly was your point with this post?

That poster gave no indication he was pro Trump. He was commenting on what he thought was a cringe worthy remark about LBJs foreign policy record. Go easy on those strawmen.

 

[Karsticles]

There's a big difference between the reasonable Bernie supporters and the fanatics, who continue to cling to bullshit like "Hillary's a Republican", make up conspiracies whenever Bernie loses and desperately try to make everything Hillary (or even her SuperPACs) does into a controversy that proves she's the devil, all while conveniently glossing over that Bernie isn't a saint either. I've wasted enough of my life trying to talk down true believers, there's no point.

I feel like I see Hillary supporters talk about this kind of person more than I actually see it exist. Is it more present outside of GAF, or something?

As it is, it feels more like people are attacking a caricature when they make those comments.

You'll get one of idiot A, B and C, that's what encourages the utilitarianism and the 'lesser of evils' philosophy. Not voting isn't saying "I don't support any of these", it's saying "I don't care who wins". Do you care who wins?

RON is not an option.

If I felt a positive inclination toward a particular candidate, then I might care. As it is, I don't find myself enthusiastic about any of them.

 

[gcubed]

He's outspending her by millions. Clearly money isn't the issue.

but little money isn't as effective as BIG BOOGEY MAN MONEY!

 

[The Technomancer]

I feel like I see Hillary supporters talk about this kind of person more than I actually see it exist. Is it more present outside of GAF, or something?

As it is, it feels more like people are attacking a caricature when they make those comments.

It is basically the only type of Bernie supporter I see on Twitter or Facebook these days. A handful of reasonable ones, but still a hell of a lot of "I will never vote for a disguised faux-proressive neocon warhawk"

 

[kess]

It's pretty amusing that many people here calling Clinton a neo-con were spouting apologia for the Russian interventions in Ukraine and Syria.

 

[theignoramus]

I feel like I see Hillary supporters talk about this kind of person more than I actually see it exist. Is it more present outside of GAF, or something?

As it is, it feels more like people are attacking a caricature when they make those comments.


If I felt a positive inclination toward a particular candidate, then I might care. As it is, I don't find myself enthusiastic about any of them.

I dont see why zealots on reddit and TYT should be used to cast aspersions on Bernie supporters. If we want to play that game, lets talk about the poll that just came out, claiming Hillary supporters are the second most aggressive political constituency online. I mean if a sub-reddit and TYT can be used as ancedotal "proof", why not a poll too?
Its all partisan bullshit.

 

[Blader]

I disagree that Sanders and Clinton have the same goals. He is further to the left of her when it comes to fiscal policy, because he believes that capitalism is fundamentally a bad thing. She doesn't. Obviously, Bernie Sanders would never be able to turn the United States into a socialist country. Even Bernie recognizes this. But it's a pretty major distinction that marks a lot of their disagreements, if not their voting records.

This is going back a couple pages, but wanted to pull this out because it's absolutely not true. Bernie is opposed to capitalist excess and greed, but he is not fundamentally anti-capitalist.

Why would anyone change a rule that they are actively benefiting from? Seems to me like people (aka HILLARY) have to be forced.

Republicans benefit more than Democrats from unchecked campaign contributions.

Putting aside the fact that the Citizens United decision came about as a result of CU trying to air an anti-Hillary movie and that she would have a personal investment in getting that decision overturned, let's keep something else in mind: this is going to be Hillary's last go-around as a presidential candidate. She'll either win and spend the next 4-8 years in the White House, or she'll lose and won't try a third time. In either scenario, whatever benefits she gets out of Citizens United are incredibly short-term. Like, they could stop benefiting her six months. And then never again.

Hillary has been a major stalwart for the Democratic party for decades. It's in her interest to ensure the party is thriving and capable of winning elections for many years and decades to come, long after this campaign and her potential White House tenure is over. If Republicans historically benefit more from super PACs and the like than the Democrats, that's in Hillary's interest to ensure that the playing field is leveled out for her party going forward.

 

[mclem]

If I felt a positive inclination toward a particular candidate, then I might care. As it is, I don't find myself enthusiastic about any of them.

Do you feel negative inclinations more strongly in any direction? Or are they all identikit rent-a-politico in your eyes?

(Yes, I acknowledge that you've said you're not inclined to utilitarianism. That doesn't necessarily mean you have no criteria to weigh one over another, though; hence why I'm trying to isolate if you're completely indifferent to who wins or if you just can't bring yourself to vote for someone if you have reservations about some of their positions)

 

[Karsticles]

It is basically the only type of Bernie supporter I see on Twitter or Facebook these days. A handful of reasonable ones, but still a hell of a lot of "I will never vote for a disguised faux-proressive neocon warhawk"

Oh, I don't read social media outside of GAF, so maybe that's why I'm not as upset about it all. I work in a conservative high school, so I usually hear students hating on all the candidates.

I dont see why zealots on reddit and TYT should be used to cast aspersions on Bernie supporters. If we want to play that game, lets talk about the poll that just came out, claiming Hillary supporters are the second most aggressive political constituency online. I mean if a sub-reddit and TYT can be used as ancedotal "proof", why not a poll too?
Its all partisan bullshit.

Yeah, and these online polls are silly. How do you even measure that?

Do you feel negative inclinations more strongly in any direction? Or are they all identikit rent-a-politico in your eyes?

(Yes, I acknowledge that you've said you're not inclined to utilitarianism. That doesn't necessarily mean you have no criteria to weigh one over another, though, hence why I'm trying to isolate if you're completely indifferent to who wins or if you just can't bring yourself to vote for someone if you have reservations about some of their positions)

I'll just PM you so the mob doesn't assault me.

 

[And_Gignac]

Literally Satan.

 

[Amir0x]

Literally Satan.

haha melkr, keep up the spirit. it's so cute ^_^

 

[Valhelm]

This is going back a couple pages, but wanted to pull this out because it's absolutely not true. Bernie is opposed to capitalist excess and greed, but he is not fundamentally anti-capitalist.

I disagree. Bernie might not be anti-capitalist in practice, but that's because it's really difficult to oppose capitalism within the framework of American politics. He's opposed capitalism pretty explicitly throughout his career, and is a huge supporter of the legacy of Eugene Debs, a politician from the WW1 era who was actually imprisoned for being a socialist.

 

[EMT0]

Do you even think about how you sound when you say nonsense bullshit like this? Bernie supporters are gonna vote for her en masse anyway, since it always happens, and it has always happened for candidates with supporters far more virulent than Bernie's. We have a zillion data points supporting that indisputable fact, and you have zilch supporting your probable idea that she needs to work particularly hard for them. Give it up already - Hillary won, she's gonna get Bernie supporters, and she is simply taking advantage of so many Republicans supreme disdain and fear of Drumpf to try to raise even more money.

If that's a problem for you, stop following politics already. This isn't even a category 1 threat, christ.

As someone that's far from a Bernie shill....some Hillary supporters are on such high horses. She shouldn't be taking anybody for granted and should at the very least be making moves towards reconciling a significant chunk of the electorate either now or soon.

 

[biggersmaller]

Her campaign clearly believes securing both the moderate left and moderate right is more important than the hardcore Bernie fanatics. Interesting after many analysts thought she would go harder left after Bernie made so many waves.

It's a sound strategy, though the hard lefters that supported her may feel betrayed.

 

[Suikoguy]

Her campaign clearly believes securing both the moderate left and moderate right is more important than the hardcore Bernie fanatics. Interesting after many analysts thought she would go harder left after Bernie made so many waves.

It's a sound strategy, though the hard lefters that supported her may feel betrayed.

Your post would have merit assuming her policy positions were being moderated. There is no evidence of that.

 

[RDreamer]

Her campaign clearly believes securing both the moderate left and moderate right is more important than the hardcore Bernie fanatics. Interesting after many analysts thought she would go harder left after Bernie made so many waves.

It's a sound strategy, though the hard lefters that supported her may feel betrayed.

I think they'll go for them after the race is done and the timing seems right.

Right now it makes more sense to go after those moderate right leaners because the timing is perfect. Trump just won the nomination and big name republicans are all coming out against him, basically saying it's ok to not vote for him. It'd be stupid not to grab that money and support while the iron is hot.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Nah, I'm not buying it.
Those donors are gonna put their money behind Senate Republicans to make sure they don't lose control of it.

 

[Piggus]

Hillary is closer to the moderate Republicans than to Bernie supporters.

Hahahahahaha

It's so sad that people actually think this. My god.

 

[Mael]

The people in her PACs aren't actually her

1rst post and all that.

I see that we're still blaming Clinton for Libya.
Good, don't let anyone tell you that the entire responsibility of this botch job fall on anyone else than Hillary Clinton the falcon of war that wants to invade the rest of the countries of the Earth.

 

[n00bsauce87]

It seems to be a smart play. Mainstream republicans may feel as though they can at least negotiate with Clinton. Trump is more of a hard liner (especially with his rhetoric). Grab as many votes as you can for the general election

 

[Kite]

Her campaign clearly believes securing both the moderate left and moderate right is more important than the hardcore Bernie fanatics. Interesting after many analysts thought she would go harder left after Bernie made so many waves.

It's a sound strategy, though the hard lefters that supported her may feel betrayed.

I agree with them 100%, the longer Bernie stays in the more convinced I am that the DNC should keep them far far away. They can go back to supporting Ron Paul, Jill whatsherface Green Party, or not voting at all. I'd rather deal with the centrists and moderates. We don't need the liberal version of the Tea Party, it's cringy as fucking seeing my supposed "allies" spamming crackpot conspiracy articles.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I don't know. "aside from shaming Bernie's base" - continues to shame Bernie's base - "Good luck with your twitter revolution." It's been done a thousand times.

Btw I voted for Bernie.

I would have included that as a disclaimer but while I get tired of having my throat jumped on every time I try to make a point of defending Hillary, I get more tired of having to explicitly cater to anyone who thinks any positive comment about Hillary means you're a corporatist shill and hate Bernie and all that he stands for.

I like Bernie. I think in broad strokes, his ideas represent the future of the party. I've grown to strongly dislike his base, or at least the most outspoken of them. The ones who contort the numbers every which way to show he has a realistic path to a pledged delegate majority (he doesn't). The ones who demand that superdelegates flip their votes because a) they're in a Bernie state and should side with the people or b) they're in a Hillay state and should side with Bernie because fuck that bitch. All the while pissing on every liberal achievement in the last century because it wasn't good enough.

The problem with Bernie's revolution is there is no revolution. Electing someone who claims to be outside the system (which Bernie is not) to head the system does not change the system. All you want is a Congress and a president that pass laws you like. What a radical idea! And as we've seen in the primaries, it hasn't borne out. You can't claim the will of the people when you've been rejected by the people. And for all the talk of Bernie inspiring people and driving up turnout, Hillary will likely finish fairly close to her 2008 total. Bernie will be lucky to achieve half of that. You, senator, are no Barack Obama.

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

 

[gutter_trash]

Republicans have been competitive with suburban married women, Trump is losing them.
Hillary is going for the win targeting this specific demo

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Btw I voted for Bernie.

I would have included that as a disclaimer but while I get tired of having my throat jumped on every time I try to make a point of defending Hillary, I get more tired of having to explicitly cater to anyone who thinks any positive comment about Hillary means you're a corporatist shill and hate Bernie and all that he stands for.

I like Bernie. I think in broad strokes, his ideas represent the future of the party. I've grown to strongly dislike his base, or at least the most outspoken of them. The ones who contort the numbers every which way to show he has a realistic path to a pledged delegate majority (he doesn't). The ones who demand that superdelegates flip their votes because a) they're in a Bernie state and should side with the people or b) they're in a Hillay state and should side with Bernie because fuck that bitch. All the while pissing on every liberal achievement in the last century because it wasn't good enough.

The problem with Bernie's revolution is there is no revolution. Electing someone who claims to be outside the system (which Bernie is not) to head the system does not change the system. All you want is a Congress and a president that pass laws you like. What a radical idea! And as we've seen in the primaries, it hasn't borne out. You can't claim the will of the people when you've been rejected by the people. And for all the talk of Bernie inspiring people and driving up turnout, Hillary will likely finish fairly close to her 2008 total. Bernie will be lucky to achieve half of that. You, senator, are no Barack Obama.

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

It is frustrating. I'm hoping all of this enthusiasm for Sanders goes in a more insightful and productive direction after this election.

 

[JZA]

Her pitch: "I voted for the Iraq war, as well as voted twice for the Patriot Act, I'm practically one of you guys!"

 

[benjipwns]

Eugene Debs, a politician from the WW1 era who was actually imprisoned for being a socialist.

He was technically imprisoned for opposing slavery, aka the draft. But the socialist thing probably didn't help.

He got almost a million votes when he ran for President in 1920 from prison.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Her pitch: "I voted for the Iraq war, as well as voted twice for the Patriot Act, I'm practically one of you guys!"

Or: "Donald Trump is literally not qualified to be President and despite the fact that we disagree completely in terms of ideology, we can't allow him to lead the free world."

 

[jack_package_200]

Btw I voted for Bernie.

I would have included that as a disclaimer but while I get tired of having my throat jumped on every time I try to make a point of defending Hillary, I get more tired of having to explicitly cater to anyone who thinks any positive comment about Hillary means you're a corporatist shill and hate Bernie and all that he stands for.

I like Bernie. I think in broad strokes, his ideas represent the future of the party. I've grown to strongly dislike his base, or at least the most outspoken of them. The ones who contort the numbers every which way to show he has a realistic path to a pledged delegate majority (he doesn't). The ones who demand that superdelegates flip their votes because a) they're in a Bernie state and should side with the people or b) they're in a Hillay state and should side with Bernie because fuck that bitch. All the while pissing on every liberal achievement in the last century because it wasn't good enough.

The problem with Bernie's revolution is there is no revolution. Electing someone who claims to be outside the system (which Bernie is not) to head the system does not change the system. All you want is a Congress and a president that pass laws you like. What a radical idea! And as we've seen in the primaries, it hasn't borne out. You can't claim the will of the people when you've been rejected by the people. And for all the talk of Bernie inspiring people and driving up turnout, Hillary will likely finish fairly close to her 2008 total. Bernie will be lucky to achieve half of that. You, senator, are no Barack Obama.

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

This. Just...all of this.

Never have I seen my views so effectively put into words.

 

[ivysaur12]

Or: "Donald Trump is literally not qualified to be President and despite the fact that we disagree completely in terms of ideology, we can't allow him to lead the free world."

And it wouldn't be her pitch, it'd be her PAC's?

 

[AaronB]

The neo-con warmongers and the military industrial complex need a new candidate to support since Bush III lost and they don't like Trump. Some neo-con talking heads are already going over to Hillary; it only makes sense that some donors will too.

 

[NullPointer]

Btw I voted for Bernie.

I would have included that as a disclaimer but while I get tired of having my throat jumped on every time I try to make a point of defending Hillary, I get more tired of having to explicitly cater to anyone who thinks any positive comment about Hillary means you're a corporatist shill and hate Bernie and all that he stands for.

I like Bernie. I think in broad strokes, his ideas represent the future of the party. I've grown to strongly dislike his base, or at least the most outspoken of them. The ones who contort the numbers every which way to show he has a realistic path to a pledged delegate majority (he doesn't). The ones who demand that superdelegates flip their votes because a) they're in a Bernie state and should side with the people or b) they're in a Hillay state and should side with Bernie because fuck that bitch. All the while pissing on every liberal achievement in the last century because it wasn't good enough.

The problem with Bernie's revolution is there is no revolution. Electing someone who claims to be outside the system (which Bernie is not) to head the system does not change the system. All you want is a Congress and a president that pass laws you like. What a radical idea! And as we've seen in the primaries, it hasn't borne out. You can't claim the will of the people when you've been rejected by the people. And for all the talk of Bernie inspiring people and driving up turnout, Hillary will likely finish fairly close to her 2008 total. Bernie will be lucky to achieve half of that. You, senator, are no Barack Obama.

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

Damn well put and filled to the brim with truthfact. Bravo.

I'm also a Bernie supporter, but there's a tinge of madness and short term thinking to the movement.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Hasn't it been pointed out a bunch of times that it doesn't actually benefit Democrats because the Republicans have far bigger spenders (like the Koch brothers and their $900 million this year) supporting them?

Even if you don't believe her policies, record or morals (despite the fact that SuperPACs originated from an anti-Hillary smear campaign), surely you can see why self-interest alone would make her hate them.

Yes, it's been pointed out many times. I don't think I've even once seen an attempt to rebut it.

 

[Cipherr]

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

 

[Punchy4486]

Her pitch: "I voted for the Iraq war, as well as voted twice for the Patriot Act, I'm practically one of you guys!"

"But I'm even more practically just like Bernie!"

 

[eBay Huckster]

"But I'm even more practically just like Bernie!"

i dunno, she's not very practically like "I've only ever successfully led a coalition once in my entire life and the sum total of its effect was to slap a band-aid onto a fundamentally corrupt institution, so trust me over anyone else to fundamentally reshape every aspect of American politics!"

 

[Punchy4486]

i dunno, she's not very practically like "I've only ever successfully led a coalition once in my entire life and the sum total of its effect was to slap a band-aid onto a fundamentally corrupt institution, so trust me over anyone else to fundamentally reshape every aspect of American politics!"

 

[Orbis]

Btw I voted for Bernie.

I would have included that as a disclaimer but while I get tired of having my throat jumped on every time I try to make a point of defending Hillary, I get more tired of having to explicitly cater to anyone who thinks any positive comment about Hillary means you're a corporatist shill and hate Bernie and all that he stands for.

I like Bernie. I think in broad strokes, his ideas represent the future of the party. I've grown to strongly dislike his base, or at least the most outspoken of them. The ones who contort the numbers every which way to show he has a realistic path to a pledged delegate majority (he doesn't). The ones who demand that superdelegates flip their votes because a) they're in a Bernie state and should side with the people or b) they're in a Hillay state and should side with Bernie because fuck that bitch. All the while pissing on every liberal achievement in the last century because it wasn't good enough.

The problem with Bernie's revolution is there is no revolution. Electing someone who claims to be outside the system (which Bernie is not) to head the system does not change the system. All you want is a Congress and a president that pass laws you like. What a radical idea! And as we've seen in the primaries, it hasn't borne out. You can't claim the will of the people when you've been rejected by the people. And for all the talk of Bernie inspiring people and driving up turnout, Hillary will likely finish fairly close to her 2008 total. Bernie will be lucky to achieve half of that. You, senator, are no Barack Obama.

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

This. This is a damn good post and I couldn't agree with it more.

 

[Drek]

Her campaign clearly believes securing both the moderate left and moderate right is more important than the hardcore Bernie fanatics. Interesting after many analysts thought she would go harder left after Bernie made so many waves.

It's a sound strategy, though the hard lefters that supported her may feel betrayed.

There is only so much Clinton can do to bring Sanders supporters into the tent while Sanders is still campaigning. Trying that now would be seen as her attempting to trivialize/de-legitimize his run and would only further instill an anti-Clinton bias.

The widening gap we're seeing in the national democratic polling between the two is a strong indicator that she is already winning over moderate Sanders supporters who now recognize her as the presumptive nominee. She can go hard after the remainder when she is officially the nominee. Ideally it is with Sanders at he side endorsing and campaigning for her. If not it will be a much harder sell, so in the interim it only makes sense to try and bring as many moderates from both sides of the isle to her side as possible with the "Trump is not qualified/will make dramatic negative change" argument that polls indicate is already effective with people who fall into that segment of the populous.

The goal for Clinton can't be to just win the election. Her campaign needs to be ran for every last vote they can get. Not only is this about winning the POTUS but it is also about two other very important factors. 1. pushing a large enough Dem vote nationwide to make 2020 gerrymandering substantially harder on GOP state houses and 2. de-legitimizing Trump in as many congressional districts as possible.

The former of those two has obvious benefits but the later is important because failure to do so only brings negative ramifications. In any district that Donald Trump wins we will have a clear proof of concept that, in that district at least, you can win on a platform of white supremacy. If there is one thing you can take for granted in politics it's that once a path to victory emerges someone will use it. Even if Trump loses we're likely to see another generation of Strom Thurmonds running for congressional seats from the districts he wins. A strong repudiation of Trump even in hard red and blue states is the only way to defeat the strategy Trump is litmus testing nationwide this fall.

 

[Kyzer]

I'm with y'all on noting the specifics of how PACs work but I don't believe for a second that her campaign doesn't have some indirect involvement with the PAC. I mean, based on what Jon Stewart and Colbert taught us about how they work, I don't believe it about any candidate.

 

[hawk2025]

Her campaign clearly believes securing both the moderate left and moderate right is more important than the hardcore Bernie fanatics. Interesting after many analysts thought she would go harder left after Bernie made so many waves.

It's a sound strategy, though the hard lefters that supported her may feel betrayed.

Even assuming this is true, it's VERY much a self-inflicted wound by so-called hardcore Bernie fanatics.

They talked about moral redlines, corruption, the complete unacceptable ability to change positions -- they created a Bernie or Bust narrative.

They made their own bed: They created a situation where moving to the left is a dominated strategy by appealing to the center.

And I voted in 2014. I guess we're all being presumptive.

That's one way to address a large post. Keep only the first line.

 

[teruterubozu]

Btw I voted for Bernie.

And I voted in 2014. I guess we're all being presumptive.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Btw I voted for Bernie.

I would have included that as a disclaimer but while I get tired of having my throat jumped on every time I try to make a point of defending Hillary, I get more tired of having to explicitly cater to anyone who thinks any positive comment about Hillary means you're a corporatist shill and hate Bernie and all that he stands for.

I like Bernie. I think in broad strokes, his ideas represent the future of the party. I've grown to strongly dislike his base, or at least the most outspoken of them. The ones who contort the numbers every which way to show he has a realistic path to a pledged delegate majority (he doesn't). The ones who demand that superdelegates flip their votes because a) they're in a Bernie state and should side with the people or b) they're in a Hillay state and should side with Bernie because fuck that bitch. All the while pissing on every liberal achievement in the last century because it wasn't good enough.

The problem with Bernie's revolution is there is no revolution. Electing someone who claims to be outside the system (which Bernie is not) to head the system does not change the system. All you want is a Congress and a president that pass laws you like. What a radical idea! And as we've seen in the primaries, it hasn't borne out. You can't claim the will of the people when you've been rejected by the people. And for all the talk of Bernie inspiring people and driving up turnout, Hillary will likely finish fairly close to her 2008 total. Bernie will be lucky to achieve half of that. You, senator, are no Barack Obama.

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

Fantastic post.

 

[eBay Huckster]

And I voted in 2014. I guess we're all being presumptive.

you're welcome to contest literally any other part of his two long posts rather than being a pedant about, literally, the equivalent of "not all men"

 

[teruterubozu]

you're welcome to contest literally any other part of his two long posts rather than being a pedant about, literally, the equivalent of "not all men"

I generally agree with him. Why should I contest? More presumptions.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Fantastic post.

It really is. One thing that irritates me about Sanders supporters is how everyone has to be discredited, which is the first page in the conservative playbook. That kind of politics is just as bad if not worse than any perceived corruption or wall street influence that they go on and on about. "Barney Frank said this about Sanders? Well Barney Frank is this and that, he means nothing and deserves zero respect"

The ability to compromise and bring people together is what is hurting us the most, and conservatives are by and large to blame. It's a real disappointment for it to also come from the left, especially when this issue has reached critical mass during 8 years of Obama. Instead of seeing that for what it is, they blame Obama for not doing enough. Liberals just didn't do enough. That in spite of all of the obvious evidence as to why things aren't moving as quickly as they'd like. Sanders has done more harm than good with this kind of misleading message, and that is a real shame. Sanders can share the shame with his supporters and whoever those idiots are who are running his campaign.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Btw I voted for Bernie.

I would have included that as a disclaimer but while I get tired of having my throat jumped on every time I try to make a point of defending Hillary, I get more tired of having to explicitly cater to anyone who thinks any positive comment about Hillary means you're a corporatist shill and hate Bernie and all that he stands for.

I like Bernie. I think in broad strokes, his ideas represent the future of the party. I've grown to strongly dislike his base, or at least the most outspoken of them. The ones who contort the numbers every which way to show he has a realistic path to a pledged delegate majority (he doesn't). The ones who demand that superdelegates flip their votes because a) they're in a Bernie state and should side with the people or b) they're in a Hillay state and should side with Bernie because fuck that bitch. All the while pissing on every liberal achievement in the last century because it wasn't good enough.

The problem with Bernie's revolution is there is no revolution. Electing someone who claims to be outside the system (which Bernie is not) to head the system does not change the system. All you want is a Congress and a president that pass laws you like. What a radical idea! And as we've seen in the primaries, it hasn't borne out. You can't claim the will of the people when you've been rejected by the people. And for all the talk of Bernie inspiring people and driving up turnout, Hillary will likely finish fairly close to her 2008 total. Bernie will be lucky to achieve half of that. You, senator, are no Barack Obama.

And a lot of this is pure resentment. Fuck anyone who's cheering on "the revolution" in 2016 who couldn't be fucked to vote in 2014. And that includes many, many of the people in Bernie's best demographic. It's ok. They needed someone to "inspire" them. Sorry Kay Hagan, Mark Begich, Bruce Braley and Mark Udall, I know you passed healthcare reform and student loan reform and credit card reform and extended unemployment benefits and rescued our recession, but uh, what have you done for me lately? If those four had won their Senate races, we would have a liberal Supreme Court right now. But sorry, you're not inspiring enough. Like the first black president or the first female president. Boring!

The true irony is that the Bernie supporters are supposed to be the wide-eyed optimists, yet they're the most cynical assholes about anyone but Bernie. Yup, of everyone in liberal politics, he's the ONLY one who's any good. Al Franken? Establishment stooge. Planned Parenthood? Establishment! Everyone's a jerk except me.

Are you blaming Bernie supporters for losing seats in the congress 2014? Not the candidates themselves, or the DNC and their chair Debbie, but Bernie supporters. You listed four candidates, three of them from red states and the other a purple state, one of them from a state Hillary won convincingly and another that was fairly close despite Hillary not even bothering to compete in.

Where are all these Bernie supporters shitting on Planned Parenthood? Unless you're talking about the Bernie himself making a gaffe calling them establishment early on, I haven't seen any hate towards PP.