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[PanicFreak]

She should not be publishing this book. It's just going to come off as though she is a sore loser. I think anyone with half a brain could see that she was likely going to win the election, despite the unpopularity, the Russian hacking and Wikileaks, but that the Comey comments threw that in doubt.

So unless there are some major allegations being thrown around, she should retreat to her sideline.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The timing of this seems quite poor less than a year on, therefore, I can understand why it riles people up and comes across as opportunistic to raise money when people are still hurting and are desperate for "answers". In terms of self-fulfilling business moves, it's great timing, to cash in on said hurt and have masses of people rush to buy it for the "answers" they crave. Easily expect it to be a number 1 best seller.

As an outsider to American politics the Democrats really need to sort their shit out quite quickly and one has got to hope this book doesn't just contribute to yet again months of bickering, in-fighting and arguing... *looks at topic*... whatyearisit.jpg?

It's a bloody book. No one has to buy it if they feel so oppressed by Clinton putting words on a page.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Things Hilary's loss have been blamed: sexism, racism.

My point is that she hasn't taken ownership.

what the fuck are you talking about. She has admitted it but you can have a nuanced opinion like a lot of her policies, that outside influences also effected the election and she takes the blame.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...n-trump-election-loss-russia-fbi-interference

 

[jtb]

She should not be publishing this book. It's just going to come off as though she is a sore loser. I think anyone with half a brain could see that she was likely going to win the election, despite the unpopularity, the Russian hacking and Wikileaks, but that the Comey comments threw that in doubt.

So unless there are some major allegations being thrown around, she should retreat to her sideline.

A lot of people will read the book. And she will make a lot of money for the book.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

I see you still haven't addressed whether you should be taking your voting cues from how a video game forum makes you ~feel~. And I'm the one trolling? Come on, you can do better than that.

Where did I say I was taking my voting cues from Gaf? If we're blankley accusing posters of stuff without evidence, then this conversation is going nowhere.

The post I quoted is pretty apt right now:

Man this is really great, I remember posters in GAF antagonizing people 99.9% on their side when they asked what are her policies, accusing them of being Trump supporters and then sending them to her website in a condescending way.

 

[Liha]

Received help from Russia:

TBD

Received help from all western leaders and newspapers:

TBD

 

[Azure Dream]

In an ideal world, this book wouldn't exist. In a slightly less ideal but still pretty good world, it should consist of one page:

"I lost the election and then moved on with my life. You should too. Let's focus on 2018 and 2020"

The End

Uh, just about every sign points to Russia doing their damnedest to influence the election. Every day new evidence comes to light that the Trump campaign colluded with a foreign power in order to win. No, we're not "moving on with our life." That would be giving literally everybody who committed a crime here a free pass, with no reason not to do it again in 2020, or even 2018.

 

[freeofgreed]

Oh my god. My anger was using your post as a branching off point toward liberals that want to white wash and some who praise him in comparison.

That said, comparing him to Trump right now IS praising him. It IS whitewashing him. It doesn't mean I think you think he was a good president. It means I think you don't really understand the utter mess that guy put us through if you think Trump as of right now is worse.



Where's the elaboration? You literally did just say he was bipartisan. That's all I saw unless I missed something. Show me.

Well that's definitely not how it came off in your post so you should work on your framing. And if you think Saying Trump is worse than Bush is white washing Bush than again good for you I disagree. It's not a zero sum game. There are plenty of aspect where Bush was far worse than Trump, such as foreign policy. But in domestic policy, Trump's views towards minorities, him using foreign powers to influence an election, his incompetence, and his appointments of blatant racists to key government positions make him far worse in my eyes.

 

[whyamihere]

It's normal for losing candidates to publish memoirs.

Who cares. It might be an interesting book. Read it. Don't read it. Don't make me defend Hillary Clinton anymore.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

what the fuck are you talking about. She has admitted it but you can have a nuanced opinion like a lot of her policies, that outside influences also effected the election and she takes the blame.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...n-trump-election-loss-russia-fbi-interference

She's blamed everything under the sun. "It was my fault, but also Comey, sexism, racism, Bernie, etc." That doesn't sound like taking ownership to me.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I wish some of you had an inkling of this sort of rage reserved for those relatives of yours that voted for Trump.

Nah because they're good people unlike Clinton you see... lol

 

[Autodidact]

Received help from all western leaders and newspapers:

TBD

Yes, Hillary unsuccessfully colluded with the Dallas Morning News.

Please.

 

[Henchmen21]

Agreed only so he could have lost to Trump and you guys would stop saying it for the rest of time.

Only because Americans vote emotionally with no sense of logic or rationale. Not because he would have been the better leader.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

 

[Borgnine]

Great fuel for right wing radio and TV, they were almost at the point of having difficulty explaining why they were still talking about her. Wish she would shut up and go away.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Should be titled "I'm Sorry"

No. That's what the country should be saying to her.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Great fuel for right wing radio and TV, they were almost at the point of having difficulty explaining why they were still talking about her. Wish she would shut up and go away.

They'll talk about her anyway.

But sure she should just silence herself because of right wing assaults

 

[perfectchaos007]

Great fuel for right wing radio and TV, they were almost at the point of having difficulty explaining why they were still talking about her. Wish she would shut up and go away.

She pretty much has gone away. Not to the extent Romney did after the 2012 election, but its not like she's going on a public speaking tour ( and if she is, its not getting coverage ). Perhaps she'll go on a book tour though.

 

[Nafai1123]

She's blamed everything under the sun. "It was my fault, but also Comey, sexism, racism, Bernie, etc." That doesn't sound like taking ownership to me.

She took responsibility for everything that was under her control. If you don't want to acknowledge that shit happened that wasn't under her control, and contributed to her losing, that's your own problem.

 

[jtb]

Where did I say I was taking my voting cues from Gaf? If we're blankley accusing posters of stuff without evidence, then this conversation is going nowhere.

The post I quoted is pretty apt right now:

Who's accusing you of anything? I'm asking you a question.

She's blamed everything under the sun. "It was my fault, but also Comey, sexism, racism, Bernie, etc." That doesn't sound like taking ownership to me.

You forgot the Russians.

 

[Eusis]

In an ideal world, this book wouldn't exist. In a slightly less ideal but still pretty good world, it should consist of one page:

"I lost the election and then moved on with my life. You should too. Let's focus on 2018 and 2020"

The End

"Less ideal but still pretty good." So a world where Trump won in the same manner but is a much more level headed president whose merely not who we like rather than all out disastrous?

 

[aeolist]

also the russian aid (if it was actually them, which as far as i know is extremely likely but not conclusively proven) amounted to hacking and leaking DNC emails, right?

so the thing that broke the back of the clinton campaign was everyone finding out what the democratic party really thinks according to their private communications.... if that's all it takes then they still deserve blame for the loss.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Received help from all western leaders and newspapers:

TBD

 

[Autodidact]

Great fuel for right wing radio and TV, they were almost at the point of having difficulty explaining why they were still talking about her. Wish she would shut up and go away.

Who cares? If Democrats tried not to run afoul of right-wing media, they'd never do anything. Everybody who watches and listens to that shit already likes Trump and would never vote for a Democrat. Why does Hillary have to appease them by staying in a water closet?

If you want her to "shut up and go away," just say so, but don't disguise your personal animosity toward her by invoking the right-wing media.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Uh, just about every sign points to Russia doing their damnedest to influence the election. Every day new evidence comes to light that the Trump campaign colluded with a foreign power in order to win. No, we're not "moving on with our life." That would be giving literally everybody who committed a crime here a free pass, with no reason not to do it again in 2020, or even 2018.

I don't think you understand where I'm attacking this from. I'm not saying that we stop the Russia investigation. That's a substantive issue worthy of further perusal. But since she's not investigating it I'm not sure what insight Hillary Clinton would have on that matter.

What I'm banging my head against the wall about here is just the fact that people are still in the trenches like the damn 2016 election is still ongoing. Trump continues to talk about Crooked Hillary and point at the electoral college map like some washed up insurance salesman putting on the old letterman's jacket reminiscing about the time he won the state championship. Meanwhile, on the other side of the aisle Democrats can't stop bickering about the damn Hillary vs. Bernie primaries.

And regardless of where the Mueller investigation ends, the result of the 2016 election is still going to be the same. We can put an asterisk by it if we want, but Trump won and Hillary lost.

 

[ZeoVGM]

She's blamed everything under the sun. "It was my fault, but also Comey, sexism, racism, Bernie, etc." That doesn't sound like taking ownership to me.

Facts are facts. The majority of those things hurt her on Election Day.

 

[kirblar]

also the russian aid (if it was actually them, which as far as i know is extremely likely but not conclusively proven) amounted to hacking and leaking DNC emails, right?

so the thing that broke the back of the clinton campaign was everyone finding out what the democratic party really thinks according to their private communications.... if that's all it takes then they still deserve blame for the loss.

No, that's not the extent of it. It appears this went much further, both in the ties to the Trump campaign and in what Russia was doing via trolls/bots/demo-targeting online.

 

[JustenP88]

I don't know who benefits from people making excuses for Hillary. Not a conversation worth having. Dogshit optics. I don't know what anyone stands to gain by giving conservative media fuel with which to light that strawman version of Clinton they've created on fire again.


EDIT: and the fucking primary relitigation for the sake of fuck oh god stop.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

"Less ideal but still pretty good." So a world where Trump won in the same manner but is a much more level headed president whose merely not who we like rather than all out disastrous?

We can't change the results of the election now. What's done is done. However, this book has not yet been published.

 

[excelsiorlef]

also the russian aid (if it was actually them, which as far as i know is extremely likely but not conclusively proven) amounted to hacking and leaking DNC emails, right?

so the thing that broke the back of the clinton campaign was everyone finding out what the democratic party really thinks according to their private communications.... if that's all it takes then they still deserve blame for the loss.

You're like the ideal example of why hacking and shit works. Congratulations

 

[Eidan]

I mean, I'm impressed how the mere mention of Hillary Clinton sends some of you into fits of anger. This is what makes me simmer though.

 

[Borgnine]

Who cares? If Democrats tried not to run afoul of right-wing media, they'd never do anything. Everybody who watches and listens to that shit already likes Trump and would never vote for a Democrat. Why does Hillary have to appease them by staying in a water closet?

If you want her to "shut up and go away," just say so, but don't disguise your personal animosity toward her by invoking the right-wing media.

I want her to shut up and go away, I think I made that pretty clear when I typed those exact words?

She's completely toxic to democrats, time to stop drawing so much attention to herself and let the party move on.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Who's accusing you of anything? I'm asking you a question.

Gaf is the last place that would have any impact on how I vote.

The posters that go all in on the Democratic party do paint how I view Democrats in general though.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I want her to shut up and go away, I think I made that pretty clear when I typed those exact words?

She's completely toxic to democrats, time to stop drawing so much attention to herself and let the party move on.

Entitled nonsense.

 

[Verano]

Why is she publishing this other than the obvious opportunist money grab? The reasons are already known why she failed and im still surprised she plus her supporters still dont even undertand why. like really? Lol

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

LOL, you really think linking to that after last year proves what exactly?

 

[jtb]

I don't know who benefits from people making excuses for Hillary. Not a conversation worth having. Dogshit optics. I don't know what anyone stands to gain by giving conservative media fuel with which to light that strawman version of Clinton they've created on fire again.

Everything is dogshit optics to conservative media. You think they're going to go easy just because you ditched Clinton for whatever their latest smear target is (Elizabeth "Pocahantas" Warren, for example)? That's not really an argument either way - the conservative hate machine will continue to consume everything in its path and make America a more hateful place to be.

Why is she publishing this other than the obvious opportunist money grab? The reasons are already known why she failed and im still surprised she plus her supporters still dont even undertand why. like really? Lol

You just answered your own question. Why do I have the job that I have other than the fact that it keeps me alive with sweet sweet cash?

 

[Dude Abides]

Bitch over here writin' books like she owns the place.

 

[Shadowhelper]

Are you guys kidding? She absolutely had to do this. Trump and the alt right machine have not let up on her. They've continued to hammer her. People in the press were urging her to completely disappear.

If she is to have any chance at reclaiming her life, and potentially coming back to politics in some capacity she absolutely has to fight back, and clear her name. Remind us, she's not just a punching bag, but an incredibly capable and intelligent political operator.

And anyway, the book is going to be incredibly interesting. Anyone interested in politics should be pretty happy.

 

[aeolist]

You're like the ideal example of why hacking and shit works. Congratulations

don't worry, i disliked warmongering centrists before we got dumps of their emails suggesting things like looting middle eastern countries for their oil when we invade them

 

[Socivol]

should be subtitled "Why Everyone But Me And My Campaign Is To Blame"

This is what I feel the book will be about considering some of her post election statements. I hope I'm wrong because it will just give Trump more shit to talk about in regard to the election.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Why is she publishing this other than the obvious opportunist money grab? The reasons are already known why she failed and im still surprised she plus her supporters still dont even undertand why. like really? Lol

What are you even talking about?

She fully understands why. The point of the book is not that she doesn't know.

 

[Henchmen21]

LOL, you really think linking to that after last year proves what exactly?

1. It proves that Bernie would have won

2. It proves that you centrist's ignore facts when it doesn't fit your narrative

 

[QuicheFontaine]

No, that's not the extent of it. It appears this went much further, both in the ties to the Trump campaign and in what Russia was doing via trolls/bots/demo-targeting online.

They had trolls and bots too?? Dayum, I guess there was just no beating Trump.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I want her to shut up and go away, I think I made that pretty clear when I typed those exact words?

She's completely toxic to democrats, time to stop drawing so much attention to herself and let the party move on.

She's writing a book as a private citizen

 

[jtb]

Gaf is the last place that would have any impact on how I vote.

The posters that go all in on the Democratic party do paint how I view Democrats in general though.

These two statements directly contradict one another: how do your reconcile them?

 

[Vixdean]

Do your thing Hillary. These people are going to shit on you no matter what you do, may as well make that paper.

1. It proves that Bernie would have won

2. It proves that you centrist's ignore facts when it doesn't fit your narrative

Oh man, polls the day before the election proves that Hillary won. Thank god, this whole Trump thing is just a nightmare that I need to wake up from.

 

[Brinbe]

Not surprising this thread is a complete shitshow.

Smfh @ everyone castigating her for the gall of releasing a book and having all these idiotic opinions without having even read the fucking thing. Perfectly symbolic of the garbage treatment she's received over the past 20 years.

She's not at fault for anything. Trump being elected IS A REFLECTION ON THE ELECTORATE. BLAME RACIST, IDIOT VOTERS. END OF STORY.

 

[The Shadow]

She was a shit candidate. Full stop. I don't see how this is even debated. We knew about this before the election, and miraculously, she's still heavily disliked AFTER the election.

Pre-election:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-clinton-unpopularity-high-par-trump/story?id=41752050

Post-election (literally taken last week):

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...l-trump-will-like-clinton-even-more-unpopular

No matter how many factors people point to, the simple fact is that people did not like her. They didn't like her before. They don't even like her now that Trump is shitting up the world.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

1. It proves that Bernie would have won

2. It proves that you centrist's ignore facts when it doesn't fit your narrative

1. I don't think that word means what you think it means.
2. Thanks for calling me a 'centrist', you must be a true progressive.
3. I voted for Bernie in the primary and supported him.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Are these two statements not in direct opposition to one another? How do your reconcile them?

I can dislike Democrats and still vote for them. I did not like or agree with Hillary on a lot of issues but I still voted for her.

Do you only vote for people you 100% agree with?