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Homeland Season 2 |OT| It Hits Home

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vidcons said:
I'm really beginning to hate this show.

Season 1 was so fucking good. I think they're showing all the wrong fucking stuff, and I don't need to see so much of Nazir. He's not a star on the show, he doesn't need screen time with Carrie to voice his views. I don't need to see Estes set up Saul getting taken to a remote area. I don't need to see him tell Quinn "He knows."

You know why I don't need to see this shit? Because they show the outcomes later, and we're all smart enough to draw the obvious lines, especially when they spell it out for us. "ESTES KNOWS." Oh, in case you weren't able to decipher the phone call from Estes after eye fucking Quinn for 5 seconds after we saw there "HE KNOWS" conversation.
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Everything you're saying, I want to agree, but I have seen people on the Internets today still not understanding why Saul was detained, even with Estes' "he knows" comment
 
Wow, this show is now 24. I can't believe that Dexter was the more realistic Showtime show last night.

TV pretty much blew last night. Dexter had its worst episode of the season, this was an absolute mess, and Boardwalk had a predictable bore of a finale.
 
exciting episode but also soooooo far off the reservation. This is the kind of shit we get when they decide to not have Brody blow everyone to bits in the finale last season.

can they go back and do season one finale over again and then we can have the right season two?
 
Angry Fork said:
Being directly responsible for the deaths of 88 children and not taking any responsibility for it is far more than a 'huge dick'.
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Obviously that was tongue in cheek.

The point is that now he is directly responsible for killing the fucking vice president of the united states.. He crossed a line, and you can't press the reset button from that—and I hope the writers understand that. Where before he was merely conspiring against the government, now he's actually committed treason.

Immortal Technique said:
Everything you're saying, I want to agree, but I have seen people on the Internets today still not understanding why Saul was detained, even with Estes' "he knows" comment
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There are a lot of things this show has perhaps handled poorly over the last couple episodes, but complaining about a few extra lines of exposition to clear up ambiguity is nit-picking of the highest order. This show needs viewers, and, let's face it, people are stupid.
 
S3E5: After the torture-interrogation on Airforce One, Carrie sneaks back onto the plane through the cargo hold. She crawls through the baggage system to find President Obama on a skype call with Abu Nazir. Brody is trapped in Estes office and has to McGyver a fizzle bomb for the lock on the CIA director's personal diary. What will he find? Saul's ghost guides Dana through picking out prescription lenses.

Brody's son still looms over a half finished deck of cards, ever waiting.

"Lonesome Hearts"

the walrus said:
There are a lot of things this show has perhaps handled poorly over the last couple episodes, but complaining about a few extra lines of exposition to clear up ambiguity is nit-picking of the highest order. This show needs viewers, and, let's face it, people are stupid.
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no, it's dumb and takes the audience for fools. it removes any sort of direction and ambiguity of who the bad guys are and spells it all out for you, because shows can't be complex.

viewers don't mean as much when it comes to premium cable channels because they have dvr playback, on-demand, and online access. dvd sales also are a thing. and did you really just use that as justification for bad writing and insulting the audiences intelligence/attention span
 
If killing the veep was this easy, why didn't they do it this way before? Don't these high security offices have security cameras in every room? Wouldn't the veep have a security detail on his tail right outside his office? Wouldn't he have an emergency alarm button underneath his desk? Isn't someone monitoring his heart monitor, and didn't it trigger an alarm somewhere when it started to malfunction?
 
vidcons said:
S3E5: After the torture-interrogation on Airforce One, Carrie sneaks back onto the plane through the cargo hold. She crawls through the baggage system to find President Obama on a skype call with Abu Nazir. Brody is trapped in Estes office and has to McGyver a fizzle bomb the lock on the CIA director's personal diary. What will he find? Saul's ghost guides Dana through picking out prescription lenses.

Brody's son still looms over a half finished deck of cards, ever waiting.

"Lonesome Hearts"
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I don't understand why you'd hate the show for what it might become rather than criticize it for things it actually has done?
 
vidcons said:
S3E5: After the torture-interrogation on Airforce One, Carrie sneaks back onto the plane through the cargo hold. She crawls through the baggage system to find President Obama on a skype call with Abu Nazir. Brody is trapped in Estes office and has to McGyver a fizzle bomb the lock on the CIA director's personal diary. What will he find? Saul's ghost guides Dana through picking out prescription lenses.

Brody's son still looms over a half finished deck of cards, ever waiting.

"Lonesome Hearts"
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lol do you write for the show?
 
I loved the episode. However my only goal while watching tv is to be entertained, I have long since given up caring about how realistic the plot of a show is unless it is a show that is supposed to portray realistic events. The characters were all consistent to their backstory and writing, which is all that matters with me.
 
vidcons said:
no, it's dumb and takes the audience for fools. it removes any sort of direction and ambiguity of who the bad guys are and spells it all out for you, because shows can't be complex.

viewers don't mean as much when it comes to premium cable channels because they have dvr playback, on-demand, and online access. dvd sales also are a thing. and did you really just use that as justification for bad writing and insulting the audiences intelligence/attention span
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It's one line of dialogue. Seriously. EVERY show, every book, every movie, every play, every piece of literature ever written has exposition. Ambiguity for ambiguity's sake is pointless. This is not fucking Waiting for Godot (which, believe it or not, also has exposition). If you follow that line of logic, why even have the show in the first place? I want the ambiguity of not knowing anything that goes on in the CIA!

I can understand complaining about perspectives and that kind of thing, especially the way this season's suspense has completely been dismantled because we now have access to Brody. There are a lot of things to bitch about in this episode alone! That said, if adding in that single line with Estes and Quinn didn't add anything to the show, taking it away would have only added unnecessary ambiguity. A five second scene cleans up a plotline; I fail to see why this is inherently a bad thing and a reason why the show "can't be complex." The existence of the DVR is not an excuse for lazy writing—whether that entails too much or too little exposition or whatever.
 
The Galvez scene was fucking hilarious and so forced.

" Galvez, what are you doing here?"
" I am back"

Goes back to looking at the computer monitor.

Kind of reminds me of the Simpsons's poochie episode. I need to go now, my planet needs me.
 
the walrus said:
It's one line of dialogue. Seriously. EVERY show, every book, every movie, every play, every piece of literature ever written has exposition. Ambiguity for ambiguity's sake is pointless. This is not fucking Waiting for Godot (which, believe it or not, also has exposition). If you follow that line of logic, why even have the show in the first place? I want the ambiguity of not knowing anything that goes on in the CIA!

I can understand complaining about perspectives and that kind of thing, especially the way this season's suspense has completely been dismantled because we now have access to Brody. There are a lot of things to bitch about in this episode alone! That said, if adding in that single line with Estes and Quinn didn't add anything to the show, taking it away would have only added unnecessary ambiguity. A five second scene cleans up a plotline; I fail to see why this is inherently a bad thing and a reason why the show "can't be complex." The existence of the DVR is not an excuse for lazy writing—whether that entails too much or too little exposition or whatever.
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i don't like conversing with you because you take words that i say and try to construe them in different directions and it's really unpleasant.

so here is my end of bothering with you: Season 1 was ambiguous in who the bad guys were because we were able to sympathize with Brody and Nazir's side due to the crimes of the US, and the characters all played into this. They were never so pointed with how we should be viewing the groups as they were with Nazir giving a stupid speech (which is so out of character with what we've seen) or Estes going all "He knows" and getting Saul detained.
 
vidcons said:
i don't like conversing with you because you take words that i say and try to construe them in different directions and it's really unpleasant.

so here is my end of bothering with you: Season 1 was ambiguous in who the bad guys were because we were able to sympathize with Brody and Nazir's side due to the crimes of the US, and the characters all played into this. They were never so pointed with how we should be viewing the groups as they were with Nazir giving a stupid speech (which is so out of character with what we've seen) or Estes going all "He knows" and getting Saul detained.
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Well I apologize if I came off as hostile and misconstrued your point. For what it's worth, I agree with you on the Nazir giving his speech—though I thought they went to pretty extreme (to the point of unrealistic speeches, as you say) lengths to show that Nazir and Walden and Carrie were all one and the same. I just thought you blew the Estes bit way out of proportion; we can agree to disagree on what level of ambiguity is necessary in this show.
 
For a second, I thought a sniper was going to take out Carrie, once Brody gave up the serial code to Nazir. It would have been the most shocking moment of the year. :lol
 
The Motherfucker with a Turban sneak peeks:

1

2

I'm still unsure if I'm excited for the last two episodes or completely disappointed and skeptical of what's coming. I still love the show though.
 
This was a very good read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/02/homeland-brody-kills_n_2213510.html

Does it test the limits of plausibility that Nazir could be in the United States?
Gordon: Yeah. I mean, look, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet on certain things that strain credulity for a moment that makes you sit up in your chair. And obviously, you'll see [his arrival] wasn't the end of an episode so much as the beginning of a next group of episodes. So Nazir promising his presence rather than his distance is great. And what's causal about it is that this guy is who was targeted by us in Lebanon. He's not safe anywhere, so his coming here felt fairly organic.

And him coming here, that feels like part of his endgame.
Gordon: Yes, exactly.
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One thing I've seen people write, in sort of disparaging way that I don't always agree with, is that, "Oh, 'Homeland' is doing some '24'-style plotting."
Gordon: Hey, wait a second.

No, wait. I'll make the "24" defense for you. There was a lot of enjoyable stuff that happened during the run of "24," but I think the point people are making is that show was operating in a very heightened reality that you all created for that world, whereas "Homeland" is much more grounded.
Gordon: No, you're right. I think it's a fair question. I get it, and I get that the aesthetics of "24" were far more heightened right from the get-go, because of the conceit. That allowed for kind of a broader kind of storytelling, or moments that were merely fun. And "Homeland" has a [different feel].

At the same time, as we head toward the end of the season, ["Homeland"] is escalating. And so I think the comparison to "24" [may come up] as things heat up, same as we did last year. I think it really is a matter of execution and hopefully we executed it successfully. It's a valid observation and it's one that we're totally aware of. Hopefully the audience will be sufficiently entertained to forgive us our sins.
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And finally, given the way you have all committed to telling this story, is it plausible for Carrie or Brody to be dead or gone at the end of the season?
Gordon: Absolutely. Yes. It is absolutely plausible, and I think we talked fairly openly about [the fact] that it was plausible in Season 1.

And so the real question is how much story is there in the Brody-Carrie relationship? I think that's a question that we're answering -- it has an evolving answer. And without spoiling, it has been more fruitful than we imagined it could be. It's got more legs than we imagined it could have.
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the walrus said:
Great interview. Main worrying thing was the whole "Carrie-Brody relationship has legs"... the next two episodes and the fallout from Walden's death is really going to test that theory.
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Carrie won't care about his death because it prevented her own death, so yeah. :P
 
the walrus said:
Great interview. Main worrying thing was the whole "Carrie-Brody relationship has legs"... the next two episodes and the fallout from Walden's death is really going to test that theory.
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ugh. that has legs comment. is this now the Bonnie and Clyde show? Carrie loves Brody so much they go on the run together.
 
I'd be ok if Brody died and Quinn was turned into a major character next season.

IF Quinn dies and Brody is kept alive, I'm done with this show. :P
 
Ingueferroque said:
If killing the veep was this easy, why didn't they do it this way before? Don't these high security offices have security cameras in every room? Wouldn't the veep have a security detail on his tail right outside his office? Wouldn't he have an emergency alarm button underneath his desk? Isn't someone monitoring his heart monitor, and didn't it trigger an alarm somewhere when it started to malfunction?
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is his heart monitor connected to wifi? I dont get how that works...

why is nazir runnign around town stopping at 7/11 and taking hostages solo? isnt this the biggest terrorist in the world?
 
Fry8 said:
I'd be ok if Brody died and Quinn was turned into a major character next season.
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That'd be great. I love Quinn, but I guess the show runs the risk of having too many smarmy assholes and not enough humanity. So hopefully they up the Saul quota too!
 
This is a bit from the season finale's synopsis:

and Quinn has a decision to make that may prove to be a game-changer.
 
I like what Quinn brings to the show, and getting F Murray Abraham as Dar Adul is a good addition, as well. Would be great if they're on a while longer. As a few of the reviews have pointed out, the debate on how to handle terrorism between the observe/build relationships people (Carrie, Saul) and the let's send in drones people (Estes, Walden) is a theme worth exploring and I hope they don't drift away from it.
 
Are we sure Walden is dead? There better not be some bullshit plot next episode where Brody is freaking out because he's not sure if Walden's gonna wake up in hospital or not.

I've decided that Brody has to die. His character has simply run its course and his continued presence (and his fucking family) is damaging the show.
 
So this show has now really become a ludicrous joke, but it's still fun watching the train wreck. I'll be having a peek into S3 and if it's not better, that's it for me though.
 
I hope Quinn dies. Seems like a douche.

I should stop visiting GAF TV show threads. The hate usually ruins the shows.
 
volpone said:
Are we sure Walden is dead? There better not be some bullshit plot next episode where Brody is freaking out because he's not sure if Walden's gonna wake up in hospital or not.

I've decided that Brody has to die. His character has simply run its course and his continued presence (and his fucking family) is damaging the show.
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For a show that has done quite a few stupid things in the last episode, that would be a new level of stupid. He's dead.
 
Fry8 said:
Quinn was seen alive right after the shootout; you're thinking of Galvez.
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Maybe. I remember him lifting his head back up again after, but I remember it being one of those last moment things. Could be wrong.

Still, I don't think it's really out of the realm of what this show's pulled so far.
 
maharg said:
I feel I should point out that Quinn seemed pretty damn dead, iirc.
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He opened his eyes at the end of the episode. (Galvez, you've got a point though)

(edit: beat!)

But they showed the heart-rate stopping. Brody was in the room and they made it pretty clear that he waited patiently before calling for a doctor. If they don't even have the balls to kill off the VP... then fuck this show.

I do think he's dead though.
 
A few more reviews rolling in:
- Andy Greenwald on Grantland
- Ken Tucker
- EW.com

One passage from Andy Greenwald's review:
It's clear now that the Emmy win and subsequent attention obscured the fact that Homeland is — and always has been! — a potentially very goofy show. Anytime you attempt to craft a cocktail of weepy romantic yearning, gripping spy high jinks, and risky psychological relativism spiked with a splash of Islamic terrorism, there's bound to be some spillage. (And for what it's worth, Brody Skyped with Abu Nazir last year, too, something I don't remember coming up much on the red carpet.)

Even so, it's been particularly disheartening to watch many of the show's former fans mutate into a chorus of sneering, self-appointed Mythbusters. If you ask me, it's probably safer — not to mention potentially more satisfying — to wait until the bandwagon has come to a complete stop for the year before jumping off of it. Last night was unquestionably problematic; Alex Gansa and his staff may have dug themselves into a spider hole so deep not even Brody could clamor his way to safety. But Homeland hasn't "become" 24 any more than Breaking Bad has turned into Weeds. It's still the same nervy high-wire act it's been from the beginning, telling a story about deeply broken people trying to fix the world instead of attending to themselves. Will they stick the landing? I have no idea and, after "Broken Hearts," I'd say the odds are only slightly better than those of Chris Brody's beloved Wizards making the NBA playoffs. But as Nazir put it last night, "a man gambles with what he has." Last night, Homeland pushed all of its hard-earned critical chips into the center of the table. All that's left for us to do is sit back and wait to find out if it was bluffing.
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EDIT:
- More discussion from Jason Mittel
 
Sign, that Gordon interview. He says they strain credibility sometimes because it leads to really tense moments, but when you break the audiences suspension of disbelief than those tense moments don't work because you've already lost them.
 
I don't write off shows like that. I'm still watching Dexter, ffs.

The only show I dropped after having watched more than 20 episodes was Heroes.
 
Scullibundo said:
Quoting just in case next week's episode can give us some unexpected lulz.
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iZHC1S9BVUqL6.gif
 
Now get three seasons of Carrie + Brody fucking each other somewhere remote because neither of them is allowed back in the USA.
 
I am not even close to dropping this show.
I usually finish watching my tv shows to the very end whether they turn out good or bad. The only show I can remember that i stopped watching was heroes after 2 seasons and a few eps into season 3.
 
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