Support NeoGAF

[PerezDeCorcho]

by not paying attention to the dialogue in the movie?

It seems you did not detect my blatant sarcasm.

 

[Cuburt]

After having initially liked this film, seen it 3 times in the theater, and given it a few months to digest, I don't think I like it anymore. It was a fucking pain to get through the last time I saw it and I just went to enjoy all the action in IMAX.

It's too much like ANH for all the things it does "right" and most of the new stuff is hit or miss, with some pretty big misses for me. There just isn't enough new in there for me to get excited about when you strip it down to it's core and look past the nostalgia pandering. Even being a better made film than the prequel trilogy isn't enough when it misses some major things about the SW universe that the prequels did right.


Rogue One could be good, but it cements my feeling before TFA came out that the spin-offs could be better than the mainline films.

 

[TAJ]

Yeah, that's why this section of the movie is my least favorite, by far. Everything about it just feels off.

The worst part is how they instantly rip the mooks to shreds but just drag Finn around a while.
All they had to do was make the cargo anything else and have the pirates overwhelm them with a combination of numbers and skill.
Hell, keep the same cargo but don't have them escape. Or let them out on purpose as a diversion after the decision to bounce is made.

 

[AntChum]

This film is a disgrace to Star Wars. Fuck this abysmal film. An absolute disgrace to the Star Wars legacy. No fan-made solutions to the film's long list of plot holes will change how underwhelming it is.

We're through the looking glass, people.

I was about to say that. I don't think anyone liked those things. Some kind of martial arts fight would have been preferable.

I actually quite enjoyed that sequence, but I do wish instead of tentacled scrotums we'd got some Gundarks. They're mentioned repeatedly throughout the two prior trilogies, so it would've been really neat to finally see them in the flesh.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

It seems you did not detect my blatant sarcasm.

It's a weird criticism. There's basically something like that in every Star Wars film. Han finding Luke in the blizzard on Hoth, Owen and Luke buying R2 in Star Wars etc etc. At least they actually referenced it by saying Han was searching for the Falcon.

 

[cacildo]

My god this thread


(The movie is great, people. But we will really need to talk about this internet trend of

- The movie is just released: ITS PERFECT!
- Two months later: ITS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT EVER

Its been happening A LOT
Im betting Deadpool will be the next victmin.

PS: I think TFA is great. And Deadpool sucked))

 

[Ushojax]

The things that to me put Rey over to the mary sue-ish side compared to Luke are that:

1) Everyone adores her. There's no conflict at all between "the good guys" and Rey. Luke was considered a naive annoying child by some of the characters in the original. But in TFA there's nothing of the sort. Everyone seems to think highly of Rey, it's unrealistic and breaks my immersion when it comes to her storyline.

2) She conveniently doesn't need help or saving in any situation. When Finn realizes tie fighters are coming it ends up being Rey who lifts him up after an explosion, when they're flying the falcon it's Rey with the pilot skills and with the final cool trick that helps Finn's stuck gun, when Rey releases the rathars it's her closing the door and cutting off a rathar tentacle / saving Finn, when Finn, Han and Chewie are coming to rescue Rey she has already pretty much rescued herself etc. In ANH luke has to be saved from the sand people by Ben, same thing in the canteen where he's about to get his ass kicked, trash compactor is him getting saved by R2D2 and even the trench run isn't about luke doing things himself but Ben telling him what to do (contrast to Rey not needing help from a mentor figure, all she does is geek out about Han being real).

Let's not pretend that the prequels don't do the same thing with Anakin. Immaculately conceived messiah, amazing mechanic, pilot, most powerful Force user ever, perfect blond hair, adorable little baby face, destroys a massive ship all on his own etc. By the time of Episode 2 he is flying through the midair Coruscant traffic. Rey will never come close to that level of Mary Sue-ness.

 

[QuantumZebra]

It's a weird criticism. There's basically something like that in every Star Wars film. Han finding Luke in the blizzard on Hoth, Luke buying R2 in Star Wars etc etc

Yes but this is about TFA, the movie that dared to have a female lead, a diverse cast, and an emotional, fragile villain.

All those criticisms only count for this movie. The PT is Oscar-worthy comparatively.

Spoiler

I think we're being trolled

Let's not pretend that the prequels don't do the same thing with Anakin. Immaculately conceived messiah, amazing mechanic, pilot, most powerful Force user ever, perfect blond hair, adorable little baby face, destroys a massive ship all on his own etc. By the time of Episode 2 he is flying through the midair Coruscant traffic. Rey will never come close to that level of Mary Sue-ness.

Clearly you missed the part where God-King Lucas directed the PT and Anakin wasn't female. Those details are of the utmost importance.

 

[Sephzilla]

My god this thread


(The movie is great, people. But we will really need to talk about this internet trend of
- The movie is just released: ITS PERFECT!
- Two months later: ITS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT EVER

Im betting Deadpool will be the next victmin.

PS: I think TFA is great. And Deadpool sucked))

Within a few months Deadpool will be a piece of trash that's below Origins: Wolverine and Batman v Superman will be a misunderstood gem of a movie.

 

[The Hermit]

man the TFA plinket is going to be soooo much fun

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

It's a weird criticism. There's basically something like that in every Star Wars film. Han finding Luke in the blizzard on Hoth, Luke buying R2 in Star Wars etc etc

There is coincidence in EVERY story. But it breaks immersion when someone watches a film and realizes the absurdity of a certain occurrence in the plot as the film progresses. Han happening to find the Falcon in middle of vast space falls under that category, to me.

 

[Tookay]

The worst part is how they instantly rip the mooks to shreds but just drag Finn around a while.

Yeah that really bothered me the second time I watched it.

Let's not pretend that the prequels don't do the same thing with Anakin. Immaculately conceived messiah, amazing mechanic, pilot, most powerful Force user ever, perfect blond hair, adorable little baby face, destroys a massive ship all on his own etc. By the time of Episode 2 he is flying through the midair Coruscant traffic. Rey will never come close to that level of Mary Sue-ness.

Except... he's not really all that loved by everyone and ends up being the lynchpin to the Jedi and the Republic's downfall. So I'm not sure how that qualifies as a Mary Sue.

 

[phanphare]

It seems you did not detect my blatant sarcasm.

just saying, for someone who claims to have seen the movie 3 times you're missing some pretty obvious stuff

There is coincidence in EVERY story. But it breaks immersion when someone watches a film and realizes the absurdity of a certain occurrence in the plot as the film progresses. Han happening to find the Falcon in middle of vast space falls under that category, to me.

back to square 1! yay!

Spoiler

/s

 

[Triplicates]

I thought TFA was mediocre on day one, but I think nearly every Star War is substandard. I just keep going because there aren't many space movies.

 

[QuantumZebra]

There is coincidence in EVERY story. But it breaks immersion when someone watches a film and realizes the absurdity of a certain occurrence in the plot as the film progresses. Han happening to find the Falcon in middle of vast space falls under that category, to me.

Spoiler

I'm still laughing my ass off that you call TFA a disgrace and act like the PT wasn't 3 of the most god-awful films ever created

 

[LowParry]

After having initially liked this film, seen it 3 times in the theater, and given it a few months to digest, I don't think I like it anymore. It was a fucking pain to get through the last time I saw it and I just went to enjoy all the action in IMAX.

It's too much like ANH for all the things it does "right" and most of the new stuff is hit or miss, with some pretty big misses for me. There just isn't enough new in there for me to get excited about when you strip it down to it's core and look past the nostalgia pandering. Even being a better made film than the prequel trilogy isn't enough when it misses some major things about the SW universe that the prequels did right.


Rogue One could be good, but it cements my feeling before TFA came out that the spin-offs could be better than the mainline films.

I'm going to hypothesize on this because I saw my friend go through a similar issue with the movie. Day 1. Loved the living hell out of the movie. Went to go see a few more times. Still in love. A couple weeks later he was completely against the movie like it was trash. "I read some articles..." and then I started to wonder did someone just form his opinion of the movie based of comparisons to ANH, etc.

I think that's a problem that some viewers out there. It's the same with TV shows where they read more into the reaction or dissection of an episode and realize that what they enjoyed turned into a deep criticism that they adapted from other opinions and just flat out hate what they spent so much time watching before.

I can't say this is the same with you however it is similar. But like I said, this ties into all sorts of other material out there.

 

[opoth]

There is coincidence in EVERY story. But it breaks immersion when someone watches a film and realizes the absurdity of a certain occurrence in the plot as the film progresses. Han happening to find the Falcon in middle of vast space falls under that category, to me.

Are you saying Luke had a transmitter on him when he was captured by the wampa on Hoth? I don't remember that scene happening. Given that the Falcon had one, I'd called Han finding Luke on Hoth a much bigger coincidence.

Dat nostalgia tho.

 

[Sephzilla]

Let's not pretend that the prequels don't do the same thing with Anakin. Immaculately conceived messiah, amazing mechanic, pilot, most powerful Force user ever, perfect blond hair, adorable little baby face, destroys a massive ship all on his own etc. By the time of Episode 2 he is flying through the midair Coruscant traffic. Rey will never come close to that level of Mary Sue-ness.

Except... he's not really all that loved by everyone and ends up being the lynchpin to the Jedi and the Republic's downfall. So I'm not sure how that qualifies as a Mary Sue.

Anakin is generally well respected by everyone and is a General in the PT. You also can't get more Mary Sue than literally being written as Force Jesus.

There is coincidence in EVERY story. But it breaks immersion when someone watches a film and realizes the absurdity of a certain occurrence in the plot as the film progresses. Han happening to find the Falcon in middle of vast space falls under that category, to me.

Finding Luke on Hoth is way more coincidental than finding the Falcon in TFA.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I'm honored, HT.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189991286&postcount=1697

I have one minor complaint about Maz.

With her glasses off, her eyes kinda look like fat buttholes.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

I can't wait for the Plinkett review.

The denial will be spectacular.

 

[opoth]

Plinkett liked TFA.

 

[Toxi]

A weapon that harnesses the power of the fucking sun? That's a plot device ripped out of Transfomers 2. Think about that. a plot device from TRANSFORMERS 2. In a STAR WARS film.

I don't know why I bother even replying in these threads when most of the detractors just say stupid shit like this.

There are many things to criticize in The Force Awakens. Starkiller Base in general is terribly implemented into the movie's framework, the split to three primary characters means their characterization isn't always properly balanced, General Hux's acting is hilariously bad, the Rathtar scene can feel like a waste of time, the music is an incredible downgrade from Williams' previous work, etc.

But instead of seeing those points, we get this laughable nonsense. "Oh no, it has a superweapon that consumes suns." It's fucking infuriating.

 

[BigBossVanzetti]

There are still only two good Star Wars films. The rest are mediocre to bad. The extended universe was the best part of the property. Force Awakens was vanilla as hell. No risks, no weight to the story. It felt like a giant ad.

The new Marvel books are good though. Check em out.

 

[Sephzilla]

I can't wait for the Plinkett review.

The denial will be spectacular.

I hate to break the bad news to you but you know RedLetterMedia really liked The Force Awakens, right?

 

[QuantumZebra]

Are you saying Luke had a transmitter on him when he was captured by the wampa on Hoth? I don't remember that scene happening. Given that the Falcon had one, I'd called Han finding Luke on Hoth a much bigger coincidence.

Dat nostalgia tho.

Don't you dare interject logic into a senseless TFA bashing. We have George Lucas-worshipping to do!

I hate to break the bad news to you but you know RedLetterMedia really liked The Force Awakens, right?

Reality is clearly not up for consideration with some people here

 

[Tookay]

Anakin is generally well respected by everyone and is a General in the PT. You also can't get more Mary Sue than literally being written as Force Jesus.

Yoda and Mace are pretty suspicious of him throughout the prequels. Obi-Wan is wary of his arrogance.

Oh, and by the way, he's arrogant, whiny, and petulant. He's not a perfect personality.

He's not a Mary Sue. None of the three trilogies' characters are.

 

[phanphare]

I can't wait for the Plinkett review.

The denial will be spectacular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvsiJppCdmk

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

Spoiler

I'm still laughing my ass off that you call TFA a disgrace and act like the PT wasn't 3 of the most god-awful films ever created

The Prequel Trilogy strayed too far from what people enjoyed about the original trilogy.

The Force Awakens is too derivative, and comes across as a weird mash-up of the original trilogy. It's the Frankenstein monster of Star Wars films, and everyone here wants to kiss it on the mouth.

 

[Sephzilla]

Yoda and Mace are pretty suspicious of him throughout the prequels. Obi-Wan is wary of his arrogance.

Oh, and by the way, he's arrogant, whiny, and petulant. He's not a perfect personality.

He's not a Mary Sue. None of the three trilogy's characters are.

Before we go further off into debate land I'll just say that I don't like the "Mary Sue" term either and I don't really feel like the other trilogy characters are. My general point was that alot of the 'Mary Sue' complaints about Rey can easily be applied to Luke and Anakin.

 

[Anth0ny]

My god this thread


(The movie is great, people. But we will really need to talk about this internet trend of

- The movie is just released: ITS PERFECT!
- Two months later: ITS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT EVER

this



is



neogaf



dark knight rises is worse than batman v superman and jurassic world is transformers-esque garbage

 

[greatgeek]

I hate to break the bad news to you but you know RedLetterMedia really liked The Force Awakens, right?

Rich wasn't crazy about it, Jay liked it, and Mike loved it, more or less.
My guess is that the review will focus on how TFA works as a film in most of the ways that the PT didn't (according to Plinkett), and balance thag out with a bit of piss-taking.

 

[BigBossVanzetti]

I bet this movie was the hot shit to all the younglings though.

To my older, jaded eyes it wasn't much of anything. Or my taste in movies has changed. Tbh most blockbusters just feel like giant ads to me now, the soul is just all gone.

 

[Sephzilla]

Rich wasn't crazy about it, Jay liked it, and Mike loved it, more or less.

Oh we all know Rich doesn't actually matter anyways.

Spoiler

/s

The Prequel Trilogy strayed too far from what people enjoyed about the original trilogy.

Except Phantom Menace is a bigger A New Hope ripoff than Force Awakens is and the prequel trilogy is fucking loaded with imagery that's purely there to remind you of the OT.

 

[tomtom94]

The Prequel Trilogy strayed too far from what people enjoyed about the original trilogy.

The Force Awakens is too derivative, and comes across as a weird mash-up of the original trilogy. It's the Frankenstein monster of Star Wars films, and everyone here wants to kiss it on the mouth.

I love how there's literally no way to win in this scenario.

 

[Toxi]

The extended universe was the best part of the property.

LOL, fuck no.

 

[Ushojax]

Yeah that really bothered me the second time I watched it.



Except... he's not really all that loved by everyone and ends up being the lynchpin to the Jedi and the Republic's downfall. So I'm not sure how that qualifies as a Mary Sue.

You're not sure how baby Space Jesus winning the pod race and blowing up the control ship to save Naboo makes him a Mary Sue? An 8 year old kid had no business doing those things in a SW movie. I don't know how people could watch it without cringing.

Anakin is generally well respected by everyone and is a General in the PT. You also can't get more Mary Sue than literally being written as Force Jesus.



Finding Luke on Hoth is way more coincidental than finding the Falcon in TFA.

What if the original droid Owen bought from the Jawas hadn't broken down? R2 would never have left the sand crawler. PLOT HOLE.

 

[QuantumZebra]

The Prequel Trilogy strayed too far from what people enjoyed about the original trilogy.

The Force Awakens is too derivative, and comes across as a weird mash-up of the original trilogy. It's the Frankenstein monster of Star Wars films, and everyone here wants to kiss it on the mouth.

It didn't stray anywhere. It was DOA. There is literally nothing outside of Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid that holds value in the entire PT.

TFA had great characters, fast-pacing, great cinematography, sound, visual effects, and a plot that wasn't a bunch of ham-fisted political garbage - it was a space opera, like SW has always been.

I think you're just trying to defend your original statement of TFA being a "disgrace" to Star Wars and not realizing that it is leagues beyond the PT and in a lot of people's eyes, the best film next to Empire.

You're not sure how baby Space Jesus winning the pod race and blowing up the control ship to save Naboo makes him a Mary Sue? An 8 year old kid had no business doing those things in a SW movie. I don't know how people could watch it without cringing.

^ classic of modern cinema right there

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

It didn't stray anywhere. It was DOA. There is literally nothing outside of Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid that holds value in the entire PT.

TFA had great characters, fast-pacing, great cinematography, sound, visual effects, and a plot that wasn't a bunch of ham-fisted political garbage - it was a space opera, like SW has always been.

I think you're just trying to defend your original statement of TFA being a "disgrace" to Star Wars and not realizing that it is leagues beyond the PT and in a lot of people's eyes, the best film next to Empire.

It's funny, because I never even compared the film to the Prequels at any point in this thread. Other posters here decided to descend on me and claim that I like the prequels more, yet I have said nothing to indicate that.

I wish people could make their own opinions, versus jumping on the "this thing sucks" bandwagon when it's socially acceptable to do so. The prequel hating didn't become so popular until Plinkett came around.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Plinkett can still review a movie he likes and make it really entertaining and funny (Star Trek, Titantic).

He'll definitely pick some of the weaker elements of the movie apart. But if you are expecting a prequel level bashing than you are gonna be disappointed.

 

[brandonh83]

Yet somehow, after three times, you completely missed the throwaway line where Han says they've been keeping an eye out for the Falcon. And also the blatantly obvious set ups that show Rey is a competent mechanic and pilot.

Things would play out so much differently if people would pay attention to what's happening. Like that LTTP thread where the guy that said that you weren't sure who blew up Starkiller despite Poe Dameron clearly flying in there and blowing the oscillator all to hell.

 

[True Savior]

while The Force Awakens looks fantastic

No

The Force Awakens is tightly paced

No

Dialogue? The Force Awakens has the most natural banter in Star Wars so far

The Force Awakens has three main character focuses with varying success.

Just no

Seriously, I know you're just saying this to be contrarian,

Nah

 

[brandonh83]

No

No

Just no.

Nah

Also no

Well, I'm convinced.

 

[QuantumZebra]

It's funny, because I never even compared the film to the Prequels at any point in this thread. Other posters here decided to descend on me and claim that I like the prequels more, yet I have said nothing to indicate that.

You literally said TFA was a disgrace of a film and to the Star Wars saga.

So now it's a disgrace to the OT and not the PT? Or both? Or neither and you're talking about the EU?

Between this and you conveniently forgetting important lines of dialogue from a film you've "seen 3 times", I can't help but think you're trolling or just say things without thinking about them.

No

No

Just no

Nah

You and Perez should do a youtube video to explain to all of us cave-people what is wrong with TFA - I'd watch it.

Plinkett can still review a movie he likes and make it really entertaining and funny (Star Trek, Titantic).

He'll definitely pick some of the weaker elements of the movie apart. But if you are expecting a prequel level bashing than you are gonna be disappointed.

The Phantom Menace is oscar-worthy compared to this, of course Plinkett will hate TFA!

Spoiler

oh wait he liked it sorry

 

[Ushojax]

It's funny, because I never even compared the film to the Prequels at any point in this thread. Other posters here decided to descend on me and claim that I like the prequels more, yet I have said nothing to indicate that.

Do you think the prequels are also a disgrace to Star Wars?

 

[Toxi]

Stop abusing the term "Mary Sue" into the ground.

Anakin is not a Mary Sue by any definition. The entire point of his character is that he's incredibly flawed and fucks up and basically becomes Space Hitler.

Mary Sue is a fanfic term that people somehow decided applied well to non-fanfic works of fiction. At some point it just becomes an excuse to complain about any character who isn't completely crippled by flaws.

 

[Sephzilla]

The prequel hating didn't become so popular until Plinkett came around.

I can't wait for the Plinkett review.

The denial will be spectacular.

 

[brandonh83]

Mary Sue is a fanfic term that people somehow decided applied well to non-fanfic works of fiction. At some point it just becomes an excuse to complain about any character who isn't completely crippled by flaws.

See also: "shonen"

 

[Octavianus]

Just wait - people will be here claiming it is equal to or worse than the prequels.

Well I mean, it is.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

Plinkett can still review a movie he likes and make it really entertaining and funny (Star Trek, Titantic).

He'll definitely pick some of the weaker elements of the movie apart. But if you are expecting a prequel level bashing than you are gonna be disappointed.

You all do realize that Plinkett isn't just a reflection of Mike Stoklasa's opinions, right? Plinkett is a different entity. Plinkett hyper-analyzes film's after the fact, and shares his findings with us. I don't think Mike was analyzing the film too closely upon first viewing.

We shall see.

 

[Toxi]

No

No

Just no

So basically, you're just being contrarian.

Either that or you're simultaneously blind and deaf and somehow still enjoy talking about watching movies on the internet. Because that's the only way I can imagine someone thinking Attack of the Clones is a better movie in any of those areas.