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Horizon Forbidden West has a stunningly low amount of agency

im laughing so hard GIF


let me guess, you think Kirby deserves a 10/10
I don’t think I’ve played a Kirby game in 30 years
 

DForce

Member
You have to make those tasks interesting. IThe first game didn’t even try except a tiny bit with that guy that helps you with camps. I can’t judge this game yet since I haven’t played it.
I'm talking about the actual tasks\mission being typical of open-world games.

Meet the person
Ask to fetch an item or assist the person
Arrive at the location
Clear the area
Retrieve the item.

This is what I see in just about every open-world game.

The difference in HFW is that the side mission stories and characters are far better.
 
Pacing is off. Like God of War 3. Too much awesomeness means it doesn't feel special anymore.

They need to put big machines less frequently. And when they do, it must be gobsmacking.

But Guerrilla doesn't have time to pace the game properly when they focus this much on graphics and amount of content.
 
I’m definitely finding it boring and a real slog to be honest. The combat feels good at first but for me got old really fast. It has the same issue as with the first one in that you either do it properly and keep a ton of different weapons to exploit weaknesses swapping them in and out or just cheese it with one of the overpowered weapons. GoT has a really basic combat system but it was engaging from the start until the end so sometimes it’s better to do less but do it better.

While it clearly isn’t the focus the melee is unbelievably bad and feels like it happens a second behind when you press the button.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
Straight up, I've been avoiding finishing this game. One mission to go for over a week. It's just such....a......slog.

Don't get me wrong - it's gorgeous and striking and the story occasionally lands. But it's a gameplay loop of go here, talk to guy, kill machine or enemy, talk to guy again. Very little interactivity in the environment, very few choices to make about what to do, where to go. Fighting machines is similarly without agency, as it's basically a leveling game, with weapons that you just match up with weakness. The human combat is atrocious, with one or two useful combos, no shield, no parry, very little stealth.

There are just no meaningfully different ways to play these encounters. And there are SO MANY.

Some exceptions come to mind, like the stuff in Vegas, but overall, I find the whole experience alternately breathtaking.....and utterly boring.

Thoughts?

This is the definition of "Tell me you played on the lowest difficulty without telling me you played on the lowest difficulty"

After I finished the game on the highest difficulty I retried playing the pit boss battles on the lowest level and it was night and day easier. It felt wrong playing on story. Maybe challenge yourself and mix up the weapons used.
 
Game is some of the most amazing eye candy ever, and I thoroughly enjoyed the combat during my playthrough. I actually absolutely loved the combat.

I just found the story to be boring/terrible - which honestly is pretty on par for me and games from GG....I've always thought they had wack stories in their games...but damn they're masters at getting this stuff to look and play amazing. Absolutely nothing but praise for them there

I wonder if people also have open world game fatigue..cause I know I have it at this point after the list of games I just played through over the last 6 months or so.
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I didn't care too much about the 1st game it was ok but I love this one, the story, gameplay and graphics are incredible
 
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Chukhopops

Member
yeah , i really didnt care about any of the characters if they live or die , i dont know why , its just how i felt , ive played other games where the death or betrayal of the characters actualy made an impact
The issue is that the tribe characters are usually way too cliche to be interesting, the plot surrounding them is mundane shit like fixing a well or finding a guy in the mountains… and even Aloy doesn’t help when she keeps repeating those tasks are a waste of time because what matters is the GAIA thing.

Also I’m sorry but I can’t take seriously a guy who looks like Hekarro, even though he was one of the few decent characters from a writing point of view.

The most disappointing thing though was that the only few times you could have been doing something cool in the game you actually do so… in a cutscene (the bombing the frontline from the flying mount, the last story mission, etc) and what you do instead as a player is just a boring human fight (Gerard and the tribe antagonist whose name I forgot). Missed opportunity.
 
Complaining about repetition is stupid in a videogame. They are all repetitive. It's whether you find fun and enjoyment in that repetition. When you don't, than stop playing. Regarding the quests, I would say witcher 3 is the only game to do it right but that doesn't mean it didn't have its fair share of boring side quests too.
 
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RGB'D

Member
I got the glider and picked up Elden Ring and haven't gone back yet. So far it seems to be pretty similar to the first game. Really fun when fighting big dinosaurs, less fun when fighting smaller dinosaurs but still a good time, barely enjoyable versus humans. The characters are so bland and not engaging. Even aloy. While the first games premise was pretty interesting, the story felt kind of dull. I can't say much about this game so far but nothing in the storyline so far has captured me. Still beautiful and pretty fun, but I do agree that it's a tier below spiderman/returnal/ratchet and two tiers below GOW.

And whoever decided on that climbing system needs to be fired...
 

odhiex

Member
It's not a perfect game, to be honest, or a perfect sequel (the story is kinda too much and slow reveal), but that game is a damn good one. Much improved compare to the original.

I've been enjoying my time grinding for better gears and exploring the world. I don't think I near the end, maybe 20-ish hours in.
 
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Pacing is off. Like God of War 3. Too much awesomeness means it doesn't feel special anymore.

They need to put big machines less frequently. And when they do, it must be gobsmacking.

But Guerrilla doesn't have time to pace the game properly when they focus this much on graphics and amount of content.
You were cooing about Gears game play being deep in one thread, your opinion is automatically disregarded.
 
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Bragr

Member
Straight up, I've been avoiding finishing this game. One mission to go for over a week. It's just such....a......slog.

Don't get me wrong - it's gorgeous and striking and the story occasionally lands. But it's a gameplay loop of go here, talk to guy, kill machine or enemy, talk to guy again. Very little interactivity in the environment, very few choices to make about what to do, where to go. Fighting machines is similarly without agency, as it's basically a leveling game, with weapons that you just match up with weakness. The human combat is atrocious, with one or two useful combos, no shield, no parry, very little stealth.

There are just no meaningfully different ways to play these encounters. And there are SO MANY.

Some exceptions come to mind, like the stuff in Vegas, but overall, I find the whole experience alternately breathtaking.....and utterly boring.

Thoughts?
I also have similar feelings on the combat, I think it works well one-on-one when you can think a bit, maybe set up some traps, scan the machine and find the best way to win. But the moment you fight more than 3-4 machines at the same time it becomes a completely different experience. You have to dodge non-stop, and trying to use traps or any of the weapons that need some space (like shredders or spears) becomes a mess, and it feels like a pressure cooker where you just dodge and shot arrows non-stop.

And the bottom bar with all the traps is too big to scroll in a pinch, there are way too many items on it, and it takes too long to chug potions when you are mid-fight. I also don't like how the standard medicine works, where if you use them up, you have to hold the up button to replenish it, which again, takes too much time mid-fight.

And Aloy is too slow to get up when she gets hit, it's so damn annoying, she suddenly turns into a 90-year-old lady when she falls down.

All of this feels like a system that is designed for one on one fights to me, but the game has a big focus on group combat where it struggles.

I don't even see the point of the melee, it's too weak to have any use.

That said, I don't think it's bad to the point where I have a huge issue with it, and one-on-one I like it a lot.
 

Beechos

Member
Yeah i totallly agree. I mentioned something simliar in the main hfw thread. Not sure if its open world fatigue, but theres ubisoft lvls of map icons/sidequests.
 

KungFucius

Member
Use Gyro-aiming at 100% sensitivity and you'll be able to hit those small parts easier. I normally aim with the stick and micro adjust with the gyro and release the trigger once it's where I want it. Gyro makes it much better. I really wish it was mandatory for every game in every console (come on Xbox put gyro in your controllers!!!)...

I normally suck at aiming, but every game that has gyro makes it so easy for me.
Full gyro drives me nuts. I didn't know this game had the option for gyro or both. I did fine with the sticks for the most part, but maybe gyro would be cool for refinement. I might try it on the (likely) DLC.
 
It's pretty much a Ubisoft open world but with much higher quality. Elden Ring has nothing to do with it, if you guys thought open-world games were better prior to ER release you were just smoking crack. Open-world design has always been tedious. Hell, even Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk are just tedious. I will never ever rate open-world design higher than open-ended/metroidvania style of maps( Dark Souls, Deus Ex, prey, etc.)
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I also have similar feelings on the combat, I think it works well one-on-one when you can think a bit, maybe set up some traps, scan the machine and find the best way to win. But the moment you fight more than 3-4 machines at the same time it becomes a completely different experience. You have to dodge non-stop, and trying to use traps or any of the weapons that need some space (like shredders or spears) becomes a mess, and it feels like a pressure cooker where you just dodge and shot arrows non-stop.

And the bottom bar with all the traps is too big to scroll in a pinch, there are way too many items on it, and it takes too long to chug potions when you are mid-fight. I also don't like how the standard medicine works, where if you use them up, you have to hold the up button to replenish it, which again, takes too much time mid-fight.

And Aloy is too slow to get up when she gets hit, it's so damn annoying, she suddenly turns into a 90-year-old lady when she falls down.

All of this feels like a system that is designed for one on one fights to me, but the game has a big focus on group combat where it struggles.

I don't even see the point of the melee, it's too weak to have any use.

That said, I don't think it's bad to the point where I have a huge issue with it, and one-on-one I like it a lot.
I fucked up almost everything with melee on very hard.

You just have to specc for it and having the right armour, and of course being skilled enough to use it without getting fucked up by the robots standing close to them.
 
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jonnyp

Member
This is the impression I got based on what I’ve seen

Game looks pretty terrible, no idea how people thought it would be a GOTY contender

It’s why I’m not a fan.

HZW is absolutely breathtaking, in terms of visuals, but feels like a PS3 game in terms of gameplay. It’s already dated.

I wanted to say that you cannot make this kind of shit up but obviously it seems like you can.
 

AlphaDump

Member
Best looking game I've ever played, simply stunning, however I do agree with some of the points in this thread.

The biggest slogs for me are:
1) NPC interactions take way too long to get through. Amazingly acted, motion capped, graphically best in class, but holy shit I found myself just skipping through all the dialog pressing x or holding square because it would triple my play time having to listen to everything, that is essentially boring shit.

2) Alloy is an awesomely designed character, but there is something very off with her voice. I am not sure it is the voice actor. Ally has this like overly concerned toned about everything, even when she is pointing things out in the environment, like a crate that can be used to solve a puzzle.

3) Character response time. Alloy doesn't have input lag like RDR2 but god damn does she take forever to wind up an attack or get up from one. It is so clunky getting up like a grandma in front of a t-rex, no urgency at all.

4) Weapons. Way too many and i dont get their usefulness over others. The stats are all over the place and I've basically been reduced to using my best bow for everything.

5) The setting should be able to provide so many more interesting set pieces and kind of fails to deliver it consistently. It would be nice to have old world cities and towns, and remenets of, be more intact and explorable. Everything is caked in brown rust or metallic black and blue with holograms sprinkled around, but nothing really interesting to look at closely or inspect. A wasted opportunity given the talent behind the artists, because some set pieces are incredible. I just have to go through a baron landscape to get there.
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
I'm absolutely convinced that people who call sony games movies never played the games or they played on easy\normal, they are not all good or on the same level, but most of them has solid gameplay\combat.

When there's a cut-scene every 5min. and you can't have an uninterrupted half an hour of gameplay then people have all the right to call those games interactive movies, they don't refer to the gameplay itself, which is just OK/decent, nothing to write poems about. Certainly much better that what all those TPP cRPGs like TWC3 offer, now those are bad to play.
 

Markio128

Member
Thanks for sharing your opinion in a new topic, rather than in the Horizon OT. It allows the rest of us peasants to see how commanding your opinion of the game really is.
 
I feel that with a game like horizon, especially the sequel, a lot of the enjoyment or variety in combat comes about if you mix up weapons, try different tactics etc. It's very possible to play the game as Much from twitter. It's also possible to play it like smacking your head against the wall
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
When there's a cut-scene every 5min. and you can't have an uninterrupted half an hour of gameplay then people have all the right to call those games interactive movies, they don't refer to the gameplay itself, which is just OK/decent, nothing to write poems about. Certainly much better that what all those TPP cRPGs like TWC3 offer, now those are bad to play.
That argument is bullshit.

It is an open world, you decide how much cutscene you wanna see when you start a story mission or a story heavy sidequest.

You can decide to play for 10 hours straight without seeing a single cutscene doing all the gameplay centric activities that the game has.

Also i never gonna understand people talking shit on a game because it has a lot of cutscene when they know that a game is story heavy, why even buy a sony game at this point?
 
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Swift_Star

Member
Straight up, I've been avoiding finishing this game. One mission to go for over a week. It's just such....a......slog.

Don't get me wrong - it's gorgeous and striking and the story occasionally lands. But it's a gameplay loop of go here, talk to guy, kill machine or enemy, talk to guy again. Very little interactivity in the environment, very few choices to make about what to do, where to go. Fighting machines is similarly without agency, as it's basically a leveling game, with weapons that you just match up with weakness. The human combat is atrocious, with one or two useful combos, no shield, no parry, very little stealth.

There are just no meaningfully different ways to play these encounters. And there are SO MANY.

Some exceptions come to mind, like the stuff in Vegas, but overall, I find the whole experience alternately breathtaking.....and utterly boring.

Thoughts?
It’s a linear game wanting to tell you a story. What did you expect?
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
I was underwhelmed, and found myself disagreeing with a lot of the direction the game went in. Just wasn't interesting enough, ambitious enough, surprising enough.

To be perfectly honest I would be asking major questions from Guerrilla management, that with a massive budget, resources, five years, and all they have to show is Horizon Zero Dawn 1.5.

Not good enough Sony.
 
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Calverz

Gold Member
Straight up, I've been avoiding finishing this game. One mission to go for over a week. It's just such....a......slog.

Don't get me wrong - it's gorgeous and striking and the story occasionally lands. But it's a gameplay loop of go here, talk to guy, kill machine or enemy, talk to guy again. Very little interactivity in the environment, very few choices to make about what to do, where to go. Fighting machines is similarly without agency, as it's basically a leveling game, with weapons that you just match up with weakness. The human combat is atrocious, with one or two useful combos, no shield, no parry, very little stealth.

There are just no meaningfully different ways to play these encounters. And there are SO MANY.

Some exceptions come to mind, like the stuff in Vegas, but overall, I find the whole experience alternately breathtaking.....and utterly boring.

Thoughts?
The Office Reaction GIF
 
This is the definition of "Tell me you played on the lowest difficulty without telling me you played on the lowest difficulty"

After I finished the game on the highest difficulty I retried playing the pit boss battles on the lowest level and it was night and day easier. It felt wrong playing on story. Maybe challenge yourself and mix up the weapons used.

I'm playing on hard. Promise.

Which brings up another issue. Pulling off combos is either essentially impossible (with machines), not needed (low-level human enemies) or both (low-level human enemies attacking simultaneously from all sides).

So on hard difficulty, it'd be really useful to have all these cool guard-breaking combos, but there's either no way, or no reason to use them.
 

iorek21

Member
I think combat and mission structure in HFW are a little subpar compared to other aspects of the game, but so was Witcher 3, really.

And I think HFW does “monster hunting” waaaaaaay better than any Witcher game.

It has some jank and it could be more polished, but it can be satisfying when it clicks. Although I do think the combat here is more like a puzzle than anything: you match the machine’s weaknesses with the corresponding weapon and it’s basically halfway done.
 
OP did you play HZD? Because that's exactly how I felt about that game and wasn't expecting the sequel to change my mind.

I did, and I absolutely loved it, platinum'd it. But you're right, I have been trying to figure out why I feel differently.

I think first and foremost, the story in ZD is tighter, better, more mysterious, compelling, so it papers over a lot of the flaws in gameplay.

Second, the melee upgrades (downing machines in one shot, much more crit damage, etc. vs. the ranges upgrades) were far more useful and added tactical variety.

Finally, the game had far fewer unnecessary systems, and so felt like it respected my time more.
 

Complistic

Member
They give you a massive sandbox of weapons and a variety of ways to tackle most encounters. I dont understand how you can get bored with experimenting with everything they've given to you. Unless you're just using 6 different bows?
 
Since the robo-dino combat has been constantly praised since the first one with overall improvements in the second, I'm just gonna go with a nah, dog.
 
Straight up, I've been avoiding finishing this game. One mission to go for over a week. It's just such....a......slog.

Don't get me wrong - it's gorgeous and striking and the story occasionally lands. But it's a gameplay loop of go here, talk to guy, kill machine or enemy, talk to guy again. Very little interactivity in the environment, very few choices to make about what to do, where to go. Fighting machines is similarly without agency, as it's basically a leveling game, with weapons that you just match up with weakness. The human combat is atrocious, with one or two useful combos, no shield, no parry, very little stealth.

There are just no meaningfully different ways to play these encounters. And there are SO MANY.

Some exceptions come to mind, like the stuff in Vegas, but overall, I find the whole experience alternately breathtaking.....and utterly boring.

Thoughts?
All of this could be applied to Horizon 1. They have made no meaningful improvements to the first game. This is sad.
 

Bragr

Member
I fucked up almost everything with melee on very hard.

You just have to specc for it and having the right armour, and of course being skilled enough to use it without getting fucked up by the robots standing close to them.
Being skilled shouldn't have to come into the equation.

My upgraded bow deals about 6 times more damage than my spear. I used it quite a bit in the first game, but this time around it feels like a twig.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
I'm really surprised how little of a shit people give about this game.

I mean the first one was great, surely this one is as well?
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
It gives you endless toys, but only one thing to do - match elements.

Oh. And dodge, Dodge ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
And place traps, and craft ammo, and stealth attacks, and melee, and choose which ammo to use…

I’m not really sure what else you’re asking for from this kind of game to be honest.
 
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Gamerguy84

Member
You just described most games, and can sum up every game with a statement like OP.

Everyone likes and dislikes different things. This is probably a cardinal sin on these boards but I don't care for Souls games, didn't like bloodborn, won't play ER. I just choose not to make a thread stating that.
 
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