Support NeoGAF

[Evander]

It's not up to you and i'd imagine the people actually programming the game would know the best way their game should run.

So, what I do with MY OWN finite hard drive space is not up to me.

And developers get a free pass on anything they do, under the assumption that they know better.



Thanks for flat out proving exactly what I was accusing you of earlier.

 

[Miburou]

Weird, I have the Japanese version, and I don't remember it taking that long to install. Not sure if it was mandatory (I can check later).

 

[SolidSnakex]

And developers get a free pass on anything they do, under the assumption that they know better.

To get a free pass they'd first have to do something wrong, which they're not.

 

[Evander]

Damn it that's 50 - 100 less porno vids.

Fuck you Sony.

Still watching porn in SD?

Tsk. Tsk.

 

[Jtrizzy]

And what if I DON'T feel the program should use the harddrive?

I mean, what if a dev decided that they wanted to burn-in an image on your TV screen, because it would some how increase the experience? I mean, they know you have a TV, so why shouldn't they be able to do it? If you don't want to keep it there after the game, there's ways to get rid of burn-in, I mean, they take some time, but so what?

Worst post ever?

 

[J-Rzez]

If they are being inconsiderate, then they are being dicks. They don't get a special pass just for being involved in the creation of games.

Sell your PS3.

This developer thought it was best to do this for the target quality of gameplay they wanted, just like a couple others have. If you don't like it, TOO BAD, DON'T buy the game.

Then you have people calling Kojima "Ignorant" in another thread because he thinks his game wouldn't be complete, wouldn't be the quality he's shooting for because he said he needs LPCM Audio...

Unbelievable.

 

[Evander]

To get a free pass they'd first have to do something wrong, which they're not.

Were you born that obnoxious, or did you have to train for it?







Because, I mean, I had to train, but man, you just seem to have it in spades, like it comes natural or something.

 

[Piper Az]

How the hell are they being inconsiderate? Does your PS3 have a harddrive? Yes? As such they program their games for that and if they feel their game should require that harddrive they should be allowed to use it.

sure, but forcing it is another issue. it should be an option. space in HDD becomes an issue if you are playing multiple "installatin required" games. and that should never ever happen for a console.

 

[AstroLad]

Weird, I have the Japanese version, and I don't remember it taking that long to install. Not sure if it was mandatory (I can check later).

it's mandatory; 10-15 mins or something

 

[quest]

sure, but forcing it is another issue. it should be an option. space in HDD becomes an issue if you are playing multiple "installatin required" games. and that should never ever happen for a console.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. Choice is a good thing but being forced is not.

 

[Evander]

This developer thought it was best to do this for the target quality of gameplay they wanted, just like a couple others have.

Do you not understand the concept of "choice".

It is possibe to play all of these games in composite video, if you really wanted to, on a tiny ass TV. I'm sure that isn't the experience that Clap Hanz was going for, but the game doesn't PREVENT you from doing that.



NO ONE is saying that OFFERING installation is bad. just that FORCING it is.

 

[Scottlarock]

Look on the bright side: at least you don't have to pay $180 for 120gigs.

yep somehow people blame MS for this.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Were you born that obnoxious, or did you have to train for it?







Because, I mean, I had to train, but man, you just seem to have it in spades, like it comes natural or something.

Aren't you the guy always going on about how people shouldn't take things so seriously? Good job at taking your own advice.

 

[Evander]

yep somehow people blame MS for this.

Nintendo was brought up too.

 

[Evander]

Aren't you the guy always going on about how people shouldn't take things so seriously? Good job at taking your own advice.

It was an honest question. I'm trying to get better at being obnoxious, but you just seem leagues ahead of me. I want to know what your secret is.

 

[sprocket]

Installing dmc4 has not ruined my experience with the game AT ALL. After I beat it and get the accomplishments I will delete the install data for the next games.

ITS NOT A BIG DEAL.

 

[Steroyd]

Still watching porn in SD?

Tsk. Tsk.

More porn > less porn.

Heaven forbid that devs are taking advantage of the hardware, this is the equivalent as the bloody 8Mb memory card for the PS2, bitch bitch moan moan you'll skip around the memory issue one way or another.

 

[Evander]

Installing dmc4 has not ruined my experience with the game AT ALL. After I beat it and get the accomplishments I will delete the install data for the next games.

ITS NOT A BIG DEAL.

Out of curiousity, would it be a problem for you if there was an option given, where you had to select "install" on a menue, rather than it just installing automatically?

 

[Scottlarock]

Since i'm not horribly impatient it's not a big deal for me.

I 've been playin crackdown recently, thankgod I didn't have to wait 15 minutes to play it. I threw forza in recently too and if that took 15 minutes before I could play it I never would.

 

[Scottlarock]

Installing dmc4 has not ruined my experience with the game AT ALL. After I beat it and get the accomplishments I will delete the install data for the next games.

ITS NOT A BIG DEAL.

what if a bro comes over and wants to play?

 

[chubigans]

Do you realize that you've been posting on NeoGAF for the last forty minutes straight Evander? Or are you posting from your MRI?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I 've been playin crackdown recently, thankgod I didn't have to wait 15 minutes to play it. I threw forza in recently too and if that took 15 minutes before I could play it I never would.

This is the problem I have for it. I wouldn't want to get into file management because I'd nevr want to sit through an install. Many nights I just fumble between games, some I haven't played for a few months soI'd be reluctant to reinstall a game every so often. I think it sets a bad precedent.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

seriously, this is so good for the foreign economy. cause we'll spend more money on larger hard drives which sends money to china, south korea and japan.

we're just doing our civic duty as patriots. buy more hard drives. spend more money. it's the next-gen thing to do.

 

[Jtrizzy]

I'm not sure I want to see porn in HD personally.

 

[Evander]

Do you realize that you've been posting on NeoGAF for the last forty minutes straight Evander? Or are you posting from your MRI?

I have a multi-tabbed browser, and dual monitors.

I'[ve also been playing the Patapon demo on my PSP, and a bit of DMC4 on my 360, between posts, as well as checking other stuff online.

Plus, HSG5 isn't out yet in the US, so I couldn't exactly have been installing it right now.

 

[Chris R]

It should be an option for every single game. OPTION, not forced, but all games should include the option.

 

[WickedLaharl]

what if a bro cames over and wants to play?

you gotta figure out which game to delete and then wait Xmins for the install.

and then after you're done playing said game you've got to delete the game you just reinstalled and reinstall the game you just deleted (if you so choose).

what fun!

 

[Evander]

I'm not sure I want to see porn in HD personally.

I don't think I'd want to see you personally in HD porn.

 

[Narag]

This is the problem I have for it. I wouldn't want to get into file management because I'd nevr want to sit through an install. Many nights I just fumble between games, some I haven't played for a few months soI'd be reluctant to reinstall a game every so often. I think it sets a bad precedent.

I've a similar concern. I'm all for HDD installs as long as they're optional.

 

[Evander]

It should be an option for every single game. OPTION, not forced, but all games should include the option.

THIS I can absolutely get behind.

Set a universal standard that gives everyone the option but forces nothing on anyone.

 

[J-Rzez]

Do you not understand the concept of "choice".

It is possibe to play all of these games in composite video, if you really wanted to, on a tiny ass TV. I'm sure that isn't the experience that Clap Hanz was going for, but the game doesn't PREVENT you from doing that.



NO ONE is saying that OFFERING installation is bad. just that FORCING it is.

Do you not understand the difference between how a game could run WITH and WITHOUT an install? Do you understand, differences in TV's is something devs HAVE to take into consideration? This is a core experience issue.

Perhaps it needs it. DON'T buy the game if it's that much of a bother. You should've lost all interest in this game by now for how "shocked" you are AGAIN by something to do with a Sony product. At least this isn't as bad as flipping out over trivial stuff in a "free service" this time.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Can you backup your PS3 on a PSP with a 4GB SD card?

 

[sprocket]

Out of curiousity, would it be a problem for you if there was an option given, where you had to select "install" on a menue, rather than it just installing automatically?

There is a lot of ps3 games with optional installs. RR7,VF5,UT3 come to mind. Which i have installed every one.

Also there is a lot of ps3 games that mandatory install but much less than 5 gigs.

If you had to wait every single time you played I would be totally against it but its only once. and it does increase the gameplay ...not hinder it. So I am all for it. I know I've been playing halo3 waiting for levels to load wishing there was an install option. and lets not even start on Mass Effect.


So to sum up .. I am all for mandatory installs to heighten the playing experience but 5 gig is pretty big. hopefully devs will settle on a happy medium. But they should in no way be held back from doing what they want.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

what fun!

Even if some crazy people here are ok with it, average Joe would never accept it. Thus Sony will either prevent developers from doing this in the future, or increase the size of the PS3 harddrive.

 

[Len Dontree]

Restricting gamers with what? Gamers have an option of uninstalling a game if they need to. If a developers feels their game requires an uninstall they should be allowed to do it. Such is the beauty of working on a system where you know all systems have a harddrive.

Did you sing the praises of the Xbox last gen with its beautiful standard hardrive?

I reeeeaaaaalllllyyyy hope that devs start making installs optional. Shaving a few seconds off of load times isn't worth it IMO; personally, I like to keep demos I enjoy, arcade games, trailers, etc., around for easy access. Not to mention the juggling of install-delete-install just to pick up and play an older game for a few minutes is completely stoopids.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Did you sing the praises of the Xbox last gen with its beautiful standard hardrive?

I didn't really play the Xbox that much so I didn't care either way. I'm sure it was nice for developers though that they could do it if they wanted.

 

[sprocket]

Even if some crazy people here are ok with it, average Joe would never accept it. Thus Sony will either prevent developers from doing this in the future, or increase the size of the PS3 harddrive.

like from 20 - 60 gig to 40 - 80 gig? never! :lol

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Even if some crazy people here are ok with it, average Joe would never accept it. Thus Sony will either prevent developers from doing this in the future, or increase the size of the PS3 harddrive.

And just screw over early-ish adopters like me?

This is retarded. Sony needs to put an end to this immediately. A console shouldn't have to deal with installs, deleting data to make space for games, or any of this crap. Consoles are meant to be different than PCs. Knock it off, Sony, or out of principle I'll never buy a 3rd party multiplatform game for the PS3 ever again...regardless of install or not.

Sony always has to make some ridiculously stupid decision that is a result of arrogance and pride. They need to do what's best for the consumer, and this certainly is not good.

Sony apologists, please stop. If you're only getting a 1-3 second boost in loads, the trade off is nowhere near acceptable, and you know it.

 

[Ten-Song]

I reeeeaaaaalllllyyyy hope that devs start making installs optional. Shaving a few seconds off of load times isn't worth it IMO; personally, I like to keep demos I enjoy, arcade games, trailers, etc., around for easy access. Not to mention the juggling of install-delete-install just to pick up and play an older game for a few minutes is completely stoopids.

That's the thing, I have a lot of downloadable games and other media on my PS3, and while I'm fine with the OPTION, I don't want my HDD space to shrink a huge amount just because someone was lazy and FORCED an install on me. What if I need to delete a bit of DLC for a game in the future to install a game, but end up wanting to use that DLC again at some point? If they can cram so much shit on a disc for PS3 games, do that, I can live with load times, and other people can install all they want, but taking a shortcut isn't a good answer.

 

[sprocket]

Sony apologists, please stop. If you're only getting a 1-3 second boost in loads, the trade off is nowhere near acceptable, and you know it.

1-3 sec boast is incorrect I sugest you go play through a level of DMC4 on both the ps3 and 360. You are going through a door every 1-2 mins .. it makes a huge difference.

 

[Len Dontree]

I didn't really play the Xbox that much so I didn't care either way. I'm sure it was nice for developers though that they could do it if they wanted.

Well, it was pretty cool. MS not including a standard harddrive this time around was pretty boneheaded of them, but then I'd be bitching about installs on the 360, I'm sure.

Reasonable load times don't really bug me. I missed Halo: CE's atmospheric loading screen (which only popped up between levels anyway) after seeing all of the texture pop-in of the "no loading" sequel. Not a worthy trade-off to me. I don't mind waiting a few seconds here and there.

 

[BeEatNU]

The 360 spins at 12x and for a DVD, the transfer rate is 129.6 Mbps
The PS3 spins at 2x and for Bu-Ray, the transfer rate is 72Mbps

The need to cache is there, but I don't like the mandatory install stuff.

This is true, if they gave the people who really have an issue sorting out there data an option it wouldn't be a big deal like everyone makes it to be. BUT people have to under stand that Sony has TRC or TCR list (cant remember the name) that is about loading and other shyt...they have to follow those rules and by installing they can pass that.

 

[Jtrizzy]

I don't think I'd want to see you personally in HD porn.

Think about it more, you never know. I look just like my avatar. This guy deserves a tag of some sort.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sony apologists, please stop. If you're only getting a 1-3 second boost in loads, the trade off is nowhere near acceptable, and you know it.

All I know is that i've played every GT and they've always had some pretty nasty loadtimes. GT5P though loads really fast through all the menus so you're never sitting there for long waiting for the next menu to come up or for the race to start.

 

[Alphahawk]

Wow their are people defending this? Not giving your players a choice? Wow you truely can find everything on gaf?

 

[Jtrizzy]

I can't imagine any game being worse than Motorstorm.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

And just screw over early-ish adopters like me?

I'm on your side. Mandatory installs of this kind are utterly stupid.

 

[oneHeero]

Thursdays are a slower day for me.

And most of my posting is done from the office, where things get slow, but i have no access to my PS3.

GTFO, seriously just gtfo. Your ass has been posting in this topic for fucken 2 hours, literally 2 fucken hours..

Yesterday you were in the penny arcade thread for a couple of hours, daytime as well.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2083291&pp=50&page=2

omfg.. On 02/03 you started @ around 6:40pm and stopped on 02/04 after midnight lol
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2083291&pp=50&page=6 "Start"
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2083291&pp=50&page=5 "stop"


Fuck, I dont mind ripping you more, but dont act like your life is busy, your ass is on neogaf more than anyone else lately. Its pathetic to see you say "I work 2 jobs and go to school fulltime I cant install a game for 20 mins, o ya I'm on gaf mainly in the mornings when I'm @ work"


Lol, your trolling is horrible.

 

[Bebpo]

Sony apologists, please stop. If you're only getting a 1-3 second boost in loads, the trade off is nowhere near acceptable, and you know it.

With HSG you're getting a 30-60 second boost. Same with GT.

Is that acceptable enough for you to go make dinner while it installs?

 

[Piper Az]

All I know is that i've played every GT and they've always had some pretty nasty loadtimes. GT5P though loads really fast through all the menus so you're never sitting there for long waiting for the next menu to come up or for the race to start.

Then blame Sony for making a console with a shitty memory/disk read speed. Installation should improve your experience but it should still be adequately playable without the install. Option should be available for all games.