It's not as simply perfect as the first game but it's still Hotline Miami, and it does everything almost stellar, with some reservations to the level design direction.
In terms of what "type" of sequel it is, I feel like it's kind of comparable to Portal 2 - the first game was subtle and perfect in execution while the sequel goes big with everything, making the production values better, having an immeasurably superior presentation and a much more compelling/thought out narrative, except it fumbles with it's game play by spreading it too wide for its own good. Still something worth experiencing though.
So on my hard mode play through I noticed (Pig Butcher Spoilers)
that when Richard tells you there's a twist coming in the dream before the police station level I thought nothing of it the first time, but second time around I noticed there was a script on the table of the intro room, saying that pig mask was supposed to recapture the hooker after the breakout. What a twist indeed.
as his last unlockable made his levels so much more bearable. But yeah, kinda agree. I guess they just whittled it down to the fan favorites, plus the ratio seems more in favor for ranged weapons all around.
You can turn him lethal by doing extended fist executions, but your scoring ratio will go down by a lot. Evan's levels are designed for the most of the part around being non-lethal though, ranged enemies aren't nearly as frequent and in the first level you don't even have to kill everyone to beat it. He also has the most creative way of maintaining combos by being able to dismantle guns, which is an incredibly clever mechanic that I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated into a more standardized Hotline Miami experience.
chapter absolutely infuriated me. Just beat it. It was fine up until the final section where they decided to chuck in heavys who can't be melee'd (and take ages to die) and fast guys who can't be shot (and can leap through walls apparently) in with the usual goons. Completely fucked the flow of the gameplay for me where I'm having to be extra careful and basically take out each enemy individually, making sure I had enough space between me and a heavy to take him out without dying myself, and a melee weapon close to hand if one of these speedy fuckers came after me.
That section alone took me twenty or thirty minutes to work through. It wasn't fun because it was impossible with that mix of enemies to improvise.
It's not as simply perfect as the first game but it's still Hotline Miami, and it does everything almost stellar, with some reservations to the level design direction.
In terms of what "type" of sequel it is, I feel like it's kind of comparable to Portal 2 - the first game was subtle and perfect in execution while the sequel goes big with everything, making the production values better, having an immeasurably superior presentation and a much more compelling/thought out narrative, except it fumbles with it's game play by spreading it too wide for its own good. Still something worth experiencing though.
And finished. 24 is really the only wall besides the bullshit 20th Scene opening that was the "impossible" wall for me.
Switch to guns, made the opening muuuuch easier than the Tony fists for the crime boss. Gotta beat a level with the fists for the "all used" achievement for the crime boss now
I dunno, I think it's on the level of HM1 for me. But: I don't really care for the different characters replacing the masks. I honestly liked the fact I could choose which mask I wanted to use for the level from HM1. Though the new abilities for the characters are pretty useful (still haven't found the roll to be super useful though) and a change of pace.
I don't really have a problem with the more open levels, then again I'm not going out of my way to do high-score combos. I dunno if I'll do A+'ing this outing or even do Hard (my hands are thrashed beating this on keyboard and mouse) but I had fun for ~12 hours of my time invested into the game.
Hopefully the level editor comes soon, I want to see the full potential of these character abilities.
So gave it a quick go before going to bed on the Vita, got as far as the
police station
section. A few thoughts so far:
- Game is quite buggy on the Vita (haven't played on any other platform yet) within the first few levels, enemies got stuck in walls, door knockouts didn't work on many occasion and scrolling across the screen to look around forces the player character to face dead right everytime; please tell me that's not a feature.
- Gameplay seems more focused on guns and shooting and the controls don't feel as tight. The first game had such great level design that allowed not only to play your own style but also to change your play style on the fly. This one so far feels weirdly linear.
- I agree with the previous comment on the Portal comparison. I can appreciate the effort but what made HM1 so great was its simplicity and setting. The elements are still there but they may have missed the mark a bit.
- On a personal note, I preferred the the presentation and music from the first one so far. The soundtrack is a great follow up but the first soundtrack hit every note perfectly for what vibe it was going for and it stuck with you.
It's in no way a bad game. whatever Devolver did with HM 2, it was gonna be hard to top the first one. It's still fun, challenging and trippy. Though not as addictive as the first.
I think a big issue was that the first game also had the iconic thing which was jacket and the selection of masks. This has a bit of it, but it's much more restrictive.
I think a big issue was that the first game also had the iconic thing which was jacket and the selection of masks. This has a bit of it, but it's much more restrictive.
Glitchy game, at least my experience on PS3. Enemies constantly glitch inside doorways, dogs often walk in small circles that rotate fully at least three times per second, and I'm stuck at a level that fails to load any part of the environment, and I'm running into glitched out invisible walls.
That said, the ~15 missions I've played are phenomenal. The fact that enemies don't have instantaneous perfect aim gives the game a much broader scope in allowing you to approach scenarios. The level design compensates by throwing more enemies, more windows through which you can be seen, and toooons of variety. The whole gang of guys has such creativity behind it, there's far more elements to experiment with compared to the very slight tweaks found in the first game's masks. The reporter's twist on gameplay is also fantastic. There's just so many different styles of gameplay this time around!
Hopefully, the glitches will get patched, and the rest of the game is as awesome as what I've seen so far.
well son of a bitch
i need to go back and try this stage again
i fucking love that song so much. but by the time i was done with the stage i needed a break. it took me forever haha
These army missions are wearing me down a bit. I think I'm pretty far in now too and the difficulty isn't so much an issue but I'm really sick of being tied to a single weapon and having to find ammo for it constantly. There's plenty of good guns sitting around me, let me use them damn it!
Just finished this about a hour ago. I liked it more than the first one even though there were less weapons and harder than the original, Grabbed most of the trophies but combo god wont unlock for me even though I got a 22 kill combo
Just finished this about a hour ago. I liked it more than the first one even though there were less weapons and harder than the original, Grabbed most of the trophies but combo god wont unlock for me even though I got a 22 kill combo
I was streaming and got a 15+ combo twice, a 16 and a 17 but the third time it unlocked when I got 15 someone in the stream said. So maybe you have to hit exactly?
It's Hotline Miami in spirit. It's creative, stylish, and has a lot of personality and charm in practically every facet of the design. The soundtrack is fucking sublime. The presentation is psychedelic. The soundtrack is fucking amazing.
But it's also a different beast that is more narrative focused and designed around tuned level theme and structure that almost totally abandons the random factor of the original, where you adapt to meticulously designed scenarios and rules instead of adapting to a toybox of ideas that change on the fly.
So, where Hotline Miami would present you with rooms where the enemies weapons are often random and you could be wearing any number of masks and you must steamroll from room to room making best use of everything you can, changing tactics on the fly, Hotline Miami 2 often locks down the weapons and masks and has you more methodically planning a specific approach through each stage.
Since the core mechanics are already satisfying that means the game is still satisfying. Shooting feels just as good as ever, it's violent and stylish and awesome. But for me, personally, it ideas it's abandoned (even if it was for the sake of diversity) where integral to what I loved about the original.
The soldier levels in particular are, in my opinion, largely forgettable and tiresome. Instead of unlocking masks you unlock weapons, and you are stuck with that weapon for the entirety of the level, with one melee option. You cannot pick up enemy weapons. You are limited to refilling ammo at designated ammo crates. There's no masks. It's just bleh.
I'm not even that far. I'm in chapter 3. And where in HLM1 I would, as EC's post states, change tactics on the fly I don't do that in here. In HLM1 I could enter a room thinking "I'm gonna go in here, kill this guy, then go to that room and s- fuck this guy saw me, throw this bat at him, grab this other guy, don't let the dog see you"
while the closest in HLM2 so far has been "kill the guys in this room first, then taunt people in other room to come into my room by stepping in and out real quick". I'm still having fun with the game, just not as much. If the soundtrack wasn't as amazing as it is (imho beats HLM1's), then it would be largely a disappointment on my side.
Jesus. The beginning of the game (Act 1 Exposition) is awful.
I need to check if there's another mask to use, because the fucking dodge roll is screwing me up, especially since it's mapped to the same key as the finisher. There has to be a better answer to this design problem, because having to be neutral (no directional input) and not moving to start a finisher is plain awful. Being able to separate the special move and finisher onto two different binds might fix some of this issue.
Next, the encounter for the 2F is straight up bad too. There are so many fucking guys roaming around and no good options for movement through the space since you start the floor in a chokepoint. If you fire a weapon, every single patrolling/non-static enemy rushes you. If you move from the chokepoint, you either get seen off-screen (feels like, at least) and then rushed, or the guys in the room to the right with no door on it rush/kill you.
The fact that some guys stay static, even when combat starts, is bad too. Just shoot the shit out of 5 guys rushing you and move into a new room and forgot about the 1 static guy in the new room? You're dead.
This encounter could've been made less awful by simply adding some doors so they player had a safe space to move through, then they could choose a room to start their engagements on.
This really bothers me because level design is my day job.
This is coming from someone who loved HM1 and finished the entire thing on the Vita, where the controls were much worse, IMO, than the PC, which where I'm playing HM2 on now.
I always hate when people do this in threads, but I honestly don't see what people are having trouble with. I blazed through the first 8 areas with a couple areas making me restart 9-10 times (which isn't a big deal since it's instant and you get right back into it). Idk with lock-on and stuff it's really not bad. There have been a few spots with annoying guys standing off-screen though definitely (with amazing aim of course lol)
I'm loving it so far. Just what I wanted in a sequel
I always hate when people do this in threads, but I honestly don't see what people are having trouble with. I blazed through the first 8 areas with a couple areas making me restart 9-10 times (which isn't a big deal since it's instant and you get right back into it). Idk with lock-on and stuff it's really not bad. There have been a few spots with annoying guys standing off-screen though definitely (with amazing aim of course lol)
I'm loving it so far. Just what I wanted in a sequel
HM1 had a much better difficulty ramp. In the first stage of the first act of HM2, I feel like I'm facing too many guys (most of which have guns) at once, and the level design in the area does not support this style of play well.
I get that HM2 is supposed to be hard. But even HM1 didn't start at 11. It started at 2 and ramped up from there. HM2 does not do this.
it may sound weird but i think this game is analogous to the first sort of like how later Final Fantasy games are to early ones, where story and narrative take the front seat at the expense of the gameplay's "freedom"
personally, i love it, and it may very well be better than the first. but it'll take some time to digest to say for sure
i think it'd be "received" better if this were like a third or fourth game in the series. seems like the change was a little too drastic and too soon for most.
Jesus. The beginning of the game (Act 1 Exposition) is awful.
I need to check if there's another mask to use, because the fucking dodge roll is screwing me up, especially since it's mapped to the same key as the finisher. There has to be a better answer to this design problem, because having to be neutral (no directional input) and not moving to start a finisher is plain awful. Being able to separate the special move and finisher onto two different binds might fix some of this issue.
Next, the encounter for the 2F is straight up bad too. There are so many fucking guys roaming around and no good options for movement through the space since you start the floor in a chokepoint. If you fire a weapon, every single patrolling/non-static enemy rushes you. If you move from the chokepoint, you either get seen off-screen (feels like, at least) and then rushed, or the guys in the room to the right with no door on it rush/kill you.
The fact that some guys stay static, even when combat starts, is bad too. Just shoot the shit out of 5 guys rushing you and move into a new room and forgot about the 1 static guy in the new room? You're dead.
This encounter could've been made less awful by simply adding some doors so they player had a safe space to move through, then they could choose a room to start their engagements on.
This really bothers me because level design is my day job.
This is coming from someone who loved HM1 and finished the entire thing on the Vita, where the controls were much worse, IMO, than the PC, which where I'm playing HM2 on now.
That's a truly horrible opening encounter on the second floor for sure. It really dampened my expectations for the game from the start but luckily the difficulty stays around the same for the most part. However you're really gonna hate some of the other encounters, especially for off screen kills. On the level I'm currently stuck on and another just before it, a large number of my deaths not only came from off screen but happened so fast I was dead before I saw who did it.
It's actually trivialized the on screen encounters so much that I'm almost constantly checking my surroundings and having to specifically enter chains of rooms just to see what's ahead. There was even one horrible section right at the end of a floor that forced me to head into multiple rooms to get an idea what to expect only to find that there was no way to avoid going into the encounter blind other than locking onto one of the enemies from that room, walking almost the entire floor to get back to the right path, and then checkitheir path by a red marker so I could duck into a corner at just the right time. Without doing that you have no idea what's coming even if you are using the zoomed out view.
That's a truly horrible opening encounter on the second floor for sure. It really dampened my expectations for the game from the start but luckily the difficulty stays around the same for the most part. However you're really gonna hate some of the other encounters, especially for off screen kills. On the level I'm currently stuck on and another just before it, a large number of my deaths not only came from off screen but happened so fast I was dead before I saw who did it.
It's actually trivialized the on screen encounters so much that I'm almost constantly checking my surroundings and having to specifically enter chains of rooms just to see what's ahead. There was even one horrible section right at the end of a floor that forced me to head into multiple rooms to get an idea what to expect only to find that there was no way to avoid going into the encounter blind other than locking onto one of the enemies and checking their path by a red marker so I could duck into a corner. Without doing that you have no idea what's coming even if you are using the zoomed out view.
theres a guy all the way at the far end of a hallway with a gun. Even if you shift look you can't see him until he's in firing range! And he's too far to see from one of the other rooms.
HM1 had a much better difficulty ramp. In the first stage of the first act of HM2, I feel like I'm facing too many guys (most of which have guns) at once, and the level design in the area does not support this style of play well.
I get that HM2 is supposed to be hard. But even HM1 didn't start at 11. It started at 2 and ramped up from there. HM2 does not do this.
I completely agree about Hotline Miami 1 having a much better difficulty ramp up, but I do appreciate the developers aiming for something different in this one in regards to the storytelling and multiple-character approach to the gameplay. I'm nearing the end (Scene 21), and while I feel like the core action of the first is much more refined and streamlined, the greater aspirations and scope of this one have been pretty enjoyable to me, even if the game stumbles in some instances due to the larger-scale levels and more restrictive gameplay scenarios.
Just finished the level after being frustrated at pacifism. I just grabbed a shotgun and went to town on everybody, A+'d it :y
I think I missed the hidden meaning behind it, but damn I went in hard
I think with changes like this you're just always going to split your camp, as it's not like Hotline Miami 2 reinvents the wheel. It just prioritises different things at the expense of others, and you end up with a different beast all together. Whenever that happens with a franchise you're going to have people who naturally won't prefer the changes because they steer away from elements they'd have said defined the franchise, even if they still enjoy the game as a whole.
Like, if someone were to ask me to describe Hotline Miami, among the first things I'd point to are the mask system and combination of randomised ranged and melee weapons, and how these impact the level design, pacing, feel, and replayability. Those, to me, are staples of Hotline Miami's identity. And they don't exist at all for significant chunks of Hotline MIami 2.
I'm really just not feeling this game. I loved HM1 but they've gone down a game design path in the sequel that I don't like very much.
Everytime I die in a level I just feel frustrated that I have to go through the long stage again of carefully shooting dudes, baiting large groups of does to create death rooms, it just feels tedious to me. I never felt like this in the first game, where it felt I could rampage and rush through it with melee. The change of pace is just not for me. I was ok with dying in the first game, absolutely dread it in this one.
HM1 had a much better difficulty ramp. In the first stage of the first act of HM2, I feel like I'm facing too many guys (most of which have guns) at once, and the level design in the area does not support this style of play well.
I get that HM2 is supposed to be hard. But even HM1 didn't start at 11. It started at 2 and ramped up from there. HM2 does not do this.
Like, if someone were to ask me to describe Hotline Miami, among the first things I'd point to are the mask system and combination of randomised ranged and melee weapons, and how these impact the level design, pacing, feel, and replayability. Those, to me, are staples of Hotline Miami's identity. And they don't exist at all for significant chunks of Hotline MIami 2.
That's actually probably part of the reason I'm enjoying Hotline Miami 2 more. The randomness was the one aspect of Hotline Miami that frustrated me. Well that and being stuck on what turned out to be a ridiculously easy mission until I tried it again 6 months later.
