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[SScorpio]

But 4k resolution was set on stone way before HDMI put it in-spec. There were movies and cameras capable of 4k before it, so 4k resolution existed before the release of PS4.

Are you sure about that? Even today many cinemas only use 2K projectors. A lot of cinema isn't being captured at 4K or higher even today.

Just saying a theoretical resolution that's 2x the current bleeding edge tech with nothing that can display it doesn't make it exist. On the PC side 1440p monitors were coming out.

Your response was a magical PS4 that couldn't support 4K was from 2005. There were no video output processors that would do 4K in 2013 when the PS4 was released. Then you bring up pre-2005 when 1080p wasn't even a think in people homes and are trying to argue 4K support was around?

Could you work on images and video that were at 4K resolution back then in terms of photo software or 3d rendering? Of course. Printed media can go to 1,000s of pixels per inch and are insanely higher than any of our display panels dwarfing what 8K can do.

 

[Closer]

Are you sure about that? Even today many cinemas only use 2K projectors. A lot of cinema isn't being captured at 4K or higher even today.

Just saying a theoretical resolution that's 2x the current bleeding edge tech with nothing that can display it doesn't make it exist. On the PC side 1440p monitors were coming out.

Your response was a magical PS4 that couldn't support 4K was from 2005. There were no video output processors that would do 4K in 2013 when the PS4 was released. Then you bring up pre-2005 when 1080p wasn't even a think in people homes and are trying to argue 4K support was around?

Could you work on images and video that were at 4K resolution back then in terms of photo software or 3d rendering? Of course. Printed media can go to 1,000s of pixels per inch and are insanely higher than any of our display panels dwarfing what 8K can do.

No, my response was the magical PS4 released before 4k existed. That's why you're confused.

 

[Bojji]

Outlaws is obviously the most impressive S2 game, and it couldn't be done on PS4. Features alone make is possible vs. PS4.

 

[FalconPunch]

I'm blown away by how good cyberpunk looks and runs

Obviously something the ps4 could never do

Also, DLSS is magic

Imagine being blown away by 17 fps....

 

[PeteBull]

There are 2 sides to this coin, bros, if switch2 launched back in 2013 along ps4 and xbone it would be considered technical marvel and every1, even sluttiest graphic whores like myself would be extremly impressed with it
Its 2026 tho, so we judge it by 2026 metrics, and with that its very awesome handheld, compared to 2020 stationary consoles in similar price range tho- its much weaker, and no, its powerdraw being tiny doesnt matter if we judge it against ps5/xsx/midrange gaming pc, it matters if we judge it as a handheld which some do

 

[FalconPunch]

Outlaws is obviously the most impressive S2 game, and it couldn't be done on PS4. Features alone make is possible vs. PS4.

Outlaws can easily be done on even the xbox one by stripping out rt and dividing the world into zones similar to what was done for Hogwarts.

The only real differentiator between the ability to run a game on switch 2 vs ps4 is the ssd. Everything else can be restructured with adequate development time. Studios are not pursuing those ports because software sales on last gen has fallen off.

As for star wars outlaws, when I bought a switch a second time, I played it to see what the glazing was about. Docked on a 77 inch oled, it had decent image quality but the graphics were not remotely impressive. Even on ps5 pro, the graphics pale in comparison to PC.

You could argue that it's impressive that it runs on the switch 2. However, it also runs better on the Legion go s, Ally x, Legion 2, and a host of other handheld.

 

[kevboard]

Outlaws is obviously the most impressive S2 game, and it couldn't be done on PS4. Features alone make is possible vs. PS4.

Outlaws does have a software RT fallback on PC. but I don't know how well that runs on PS4 class hardware tbh.

 

[PeteBull]

About SW:Outlaws, thats how it looks/runs on extremly weak rtx 3050(30min long vid so u can compare various resolutions/presets/dlss), switch2 version is obviously even worse than this:


Now lets see where 8gigs vram rtx 3050 models stacks up among modern and older gpus:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 8 GB Specs

NVIDIA GA106, 1777 MHz, 2560 Cores, 80 TMUs, 32 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 128 bit

www.techpowerup.com

As we clearly see perf wise its around 980ti/1660/fury x and definitely below 1070/vega56, its much newer tho and has modern featureset(rt and ai upscaling capabilities).
Now current strongest stationary console, ps5pr0 is around 16gigs rx 9060xt range in performance so about 2,5x what switch2/3050 can do, current BiS gpu aka 5090 is almost 8x stronger

 

[subzero83]

No, my response was the magical PS4 released before 4k existed. That's why you're confused.

obviously i meant 4k gaming and 4k tv's were not things that existed for the consumer.

 

[subzero83]

Outlaws is obviously the most impressive S2 game, and it couldn't be done on PS4. Features alone make is possible vs. PS4.

The things is RT is a feature not that it means a game can't run. if they really want to port the game they would just do baked lighting just like 99% of games that have the option. also look at the trade off for RT. games like RDR2, horizon, and days gone look next gen compared to the switch 2 on ps4 pro.

 

[Bojji]

Outlaws can easily be done on even the xbox one by stripping out rt and dividing the world into zones similar to what was done for Hogwarts.

The only real differentiator between the ability to run a game on switch 2 vs ps4 is the ssd. Everything else can be restructured with adequate development time. Studios are not pursuing those ports because software sales on last gen has fallen off.

As for star wars outlaws, when I bought a switch a second time, I played it to see what the glazing was about. Docked on a 77 inch oled, it had decent image quality but the graphics were not remotely impressive. Even on ps5 pro, the graphics pale in comparison to PC.

You could argue that it's impressive that it runs on the switch 2. However, it also runs better on the Legion go s, Ally x, Legion 2, and a host of other handheld.

Outlaws does have a software RT fallback on PC. but I don't know how well that runs on PS4 class hardware tbh.

The things is RT is a feature not that it means a game can't run. if they really want to port the game they would just do baked lighting just like 99% of games that have the option. also look at the trade off for RT. games like RDR2, horizon, and days gone look next gen compared to the switch 2 on ps4 pro.

Game doesn't have any lighting besides RT, they would have to create it just for PS4 version or run on software RT fallback.

And that means way worse performance:

In the current form, SWO is absolutely impossible on PS4 class hardware.

 

[subzero83]

Game doesn't have any lighting besides RT, they would have to create it just for PS4 version or run on software RT fallback.

And that means way worse performance:

In the current form, SWO is absolutely impossible on PS4 class hardware.

which is what i'm saying. they would do a baked lighting version and it would probably look much better then the switch 2 version in many areas since RT is so demanding. of course those are dead consoles, they won't do that but if they were important enough, no reason you cant have a better looking version with baked lighting since the RT is pretty bad in the switch 2 version, and the game takes massive hits everywhere for it from shadows, textures, hair, assets and so on.

 

[kevboard]

Game doesn't have any lighting besides RT, they would have to create it just for PS4 version or run on software RT fallback.

And that means way worse performance:

In the current form, SWO is absolutely impossible on PS4 class hardware.

You're showing Avatar here, same engine but more demanding

Outlaws does run at somewhat playable framerates on Steam Deck for example, which has raster performance in the region of an Xbox One and I think it runs the software RT, but I am not entirely sure.

some games lack hardware RT support through proton (the demo of Pragmata for example)

 

[Bojji]

which is what i'm saying. they would do a baked lighting version and it would probably look much better then the switch 2 version in many areas since RT is so demanding. of course those are dead consoles, they won't do that but if they were important enough, no reason you cant have a better looking version with baked lighting since the RT is pretty bad in the switch 2 version, and the game takes massive hits everywhere for it from shadows, textures, hair, assets and so on.

I doubt it would look better. It might be more stable but it will not be accurate in many scenes, not to mention how much manual work they would have to do to create it.

You're showing Avatar here, not the same engine.

Outlaws does run at somewhat playable framerates on Steam Deck for example, which has raster performance in the region of an Xbox One and I think it runs the software RT, but I am not entirely sure.

some games lack hardware RT support through proton (the demo of Pragmata for example)

It's the same engine between Avatar and SWO (Snowdrop).

 

[kevboard]

It's the same engine between Avatar and SWO (Snowdrop).

yeah I corrected it. mixed it up with AC that uses Anvil Next. for some reason I misremembered Outlaws using Anvil...

but still, if the game uses software RT on the Deck it would probably work decently ok on a PS4 class GPU. but I am not certain it does. again, some games will not run hardware RT on the deck, but not sure it's one of those games.

 

[subzero83]

I doubt it would look better. It might be more stable but it will not be accurate in many scenes, not to mention how much manual work they would have to do to create it.



It's the same engine between Avatar and SWO (Snowdrop).

It would look better for sure the RT on switch 2 is nothings special and using ultra low ray counts, notice the lighting looking totally different out doors and leaking in this comparison. the whole game lighting looks really different then the current gen versions.

 

[Bojji]

yeah I corrected it. mixed it up with AC that uses Anvil Next. for some reason I misremembered Outlaws using Anvil...

but still, if the game uses software RT on the Deck it would probably work decently ok on a PS4 class GPU. but I am not certain it does. again, some games will not run hardware RT on the deck, but not sure it's one of those games.

Deck supports hardware RT (RDNA2), game turns it off on it?

It would look better for sure the RT on switch 2 is nothings special and using ultra low ray counts, notice the lighting looking totally different out doors and leaking in this comparison. the whole game lighting looks really different then the current gen versions.

But there is version of this game with baked lighting, so we can only speculate how it would look.

 

[kevboard]

Deck supports hardware RT (RDNA2), game turns it off on it?

on SteamOS some games don't support hardware RT. a recent example is the aforementioned demo of Pragmata. it's an issue with Proton.

 

[subzero83]

Deck supports hardware RT (RDNA2), game turns it off on it?



But there is version of this game with baked lighting, so we can only speculate how it would look.

you can compare to ps4/pro best looking open world games, they Cleary have better textures, more geometry, more detail better character models, lighting and IQ. even DF said rdr 2 would be the best looking game on switch 2, and what they gave star wars the # 12 best looking game on switch 2.

 

[videogamedude]

Game doesn't have any lighting besides RT, they would have to create it just for PS4 version or run on software RT fallback.

And that means way worse performance:

In the current form, SWO is absolutely impossible on PS4 class hardware.

bububu, if they rewrote the rasterizer, cut up the zones, install a ssd, and do a black voodoo ritual to satan, it would run fine on a BASE ps4 let alone the pro

nintendo fans are so delusional bruh

 

[Closer]

obviously i meant 4k gaming and 4k tv's were not things that existed for the consumer.

Like these?

LG's 84-inch 4K ultra high definition TV goes on sale in the US next month for $19,999

LG said it would release its 84-inch 4K (3,840 x 2,160, or four times the resolution of your current HDTV) UHDTV outside Korea this month and the company confirmed shipments would be on the way during an event at CEDIA 2012 before also announcing an MSRP of $19,999. According to LG the first...

www.engadget.com

 

[subzero83]

Like these?

LG's 84-inch 4K ultra high definition TV goes on sale in the US next month for $19,999

LG said it would release its 84-inch 4K (3,840 x 2,160, or four times the resolution of your current HDTV) UHDTV outside Korea this month and the company confirmed shipments would be on the way during an event at CEDIA 2012 before also announcing an MSRP of $19,999. According to LG the first...

www.engadget.com

a 20k fucking tv in reality they were not a mass market product for 99% of consumers till 2015-2017. still sony should have added 4k support in the slim model.

 

[bender]

a 20k fucking tv in reality they were not a mass market product for 99% of consumers till 2015-2017

 

[Windom Earle]

I don't care, what I do care about is Nintendo finally delivering some decent games.

 

[FireFly]

switch 1 was actually way more advanced for its time. it was using such a dated node and GPU, It was the most powerful handheld as well. switch 2 is using 4 year old gpu and a node bigger then what's in ps5 and people wanna praise that shit?

Blackwell isn't meaningfully faster than Ampere for non RT workloads, and even going from Samsung 8nm to TSMC 5nm only gets you an extra 50% more performance per watt.

Besides which, the Switch 2 destroys PC handhelds for power efficiency, which are languishing due to AMD refusing to move on from RDNA 3.5.

 

[Sohurmk833]

I expected the Switch 2 to be a machine that can play my Switch games like BotW in 60fps and with notably higher resolution and a few smaller extra bells and whistles. And that pretty much exactly what i got. I play Nintendo games and 2D/Indie type stuff on it. I don't give a single fuck about the newest Ubi or EA Slop and if it looks closer to the PS4 or PS5 version.

 

[Closer]

a 20k fucking tv in reality they were not a mass market product for 99% of consumers till 2015-2017. still sony should have added 4k support in the slim model.

Bro, you said it didn't exist. They are not the ones to blame if you can't afford it.

 

[subzero83]

Bro, you said it didn't exist. They are not the ones to blame if you can't afford it.

its about context they did not exist for the consumer unless you were fucking rich.

 

[Danjin44]

Who the fuck cares about if some crappy western games I don't even buy on my PS5 can run on Switch 2.

I bought Switch 2 because it has games I want that I can't get anywhere else.

 

[Closer]

its about context they did not exist for the consumer unless you were fucking rich.

There's an abyss between "Not existing" and "Not being affordable by the average consumer".

 

[subzero83]

Blackwell isn't meaningfully faster than Ampere for non RT workloads, and even going from Samsung 8nm to TSMC 5nm only gets you an extra 50% more performance per watt.

Besides which, the Switch 2 destroys PC handhelds for power efficiency, which are languishing due to AMD refusing to move on from RDNA 3.5.

50% performance is massive difference though, you had and a bigger battery and you have beast, instead even though switch 2 has the efficiency advantage most ports/GAMES are running better on SD.

 

[Bojji]

you can compare to ps4/pro best looking open world games, they Cleary have better textures, more geometry, more detail better character models, lighting and IQ. even DF said rdr 2 would be the best looking game on switch 2, and what they gave star wars the # 12 best looking game on switch 2.

"Game X looks better than game Y" is subjective. We know that SWO is very demanding and uses cutting edge features, fact that it looks and runs like it does on S2 is quite impressive.

 

[subzero83]

"Game X looks better than game Y" is subjective. We know that SWO is very demanding and uses cutting edge features, fact that it looks and runs like it does on S2 is quite impressive.

I mean 700p from to 1080p using a dlss lite that falls apart in motion is not subjective though, it has bad IQ objectively , then textures looks terrible in many areas, pop in, the hair is a dithering mess, shadow quality terrible, it has insane pop in as well, lighting that noisy and leaking all these things are not subjective. you can't have all these issues and still say its subjective.

 

[FireFly]

50% performance is massive difference though, you had and a bigger battery and you have beast, instead even though switch 2 has the efficiency advantage most ports/GAMES are running better on SD.

It would give you the performance of a Rog Ally, in portable mode. I guess if you think that would be a game changer, then fair enough.

 

[subzero83]

It would give you the performance of a Rog Ally, in portable mode. I guess if you think that would be a game changer, then fair enough.

i mean rogue ally is not having developers optimize for that specific hardware. the clocks can clocked much higher meaning it would give 40-45fps locked for demanding games instead 25-40fos for demanding games. yea that would be a game changer for people that care about performance

 

[Buggy Loop]

It would look better for sure the RT on switch 2 is nothings special

DF "A ray tracing revelation"
Subzero83 "RT on switch 2 is nothing special"



Meantime switch 2

 

[subzero83]

DF "A ray tracing revelation"
Subzero83 "RT on switch 2 is nothing special"



Meantime switch 2

I mean it was alex from DF that said that he played it and said it was really compromised, and using ultra low ray counts and the lighting pops like sparkling, he said switch 2 is not really pushing above its weight after trying ill find the video if you like.



here is one new video i found of alex saying its not real RT. ill find the other one where he trashed it.

 

[subzero83]

DF "A ray tracing revelation"
Subzero83 "RT on switch 2 is nothing special"



Meantime switch 2

So i found 2 videos of alex from DF your favorite source, trashing the RT on star wars. the first video above says its not even close to the series s version and not even real RT, and the i'm posting now saying its ultra low ray count garbage that's noisy




you see the thing about DF they are being positive because they probably get paid a or get exclusive interviews and then later they tell you the truth on the low.

 

[SportsFan581]

Given the formfactor and the power draw, that's not a bad result at all. XSS would have been better, but the tech doesn't exist at low enough wattage for Nintendo (That Intel chip that can match an RTX 3050 @ 35w will probably get it done on the handheld PC side).

 

[kevboard]

So i found 2 videos of alex from DF your favorite source, trashing the RT on star wars. the first video above says its not even close to the series s version and not even real RT, and the i'm posting now saying its ultra low ray count garbage that's noisy




you see the thing about DF they are being positive because they probably get paid a or get exclusive interviews and then later they tell you the truth on the low.

the lighting in Outlaws is pretty terrible at points on Switch 2.

however, still better than many Lumen based UE5 games on the high end consoles... which is less an endorsement of the Switch 2 version of Outlaws, and more of a sad reality check on the quality of Lumen GI...

 

[subzero83]

the lighting in Outlaws is pretty terrible at points on Switch 2.

however, still better than many Lumen based UE5 games on the high end consoles... which is less an endorsement of the Switch 2 version of Outlaws, and more of a sad reality check on the quality of Lumen GI...

in the other video alex says its not even real RT, so we went to star wars is a RT revelation to now its shit. it's obvious for DF reviews they are trying to help sales, and the developers instead of saying how they really feel. same thing for AC shadows its massive down grade every where but they downplay the down grades. looks like a N64 game in HH mode yet its fine lmao. I understand its business and just look at the comments at DF at the video i posted on first page, the cult is at their throats

 

[kevboard]

in the other video alex says its not even real RT, so we went to star wars is a RT revelation to now its shit. it's obvious for DF reviews they are trying to help sales, and the developers instead of saying how they really feel. same thing for AC shadows its massive down grade every where but they downplay the down grades. looks like a N64 game in HH mode yet its fine lmao. I understand its business and just look at the comments at DF at the video i posted on first page, the cult is at their throats

where does he say that? because that would be a complete nonsense statement.

 

[subzero83]

where does he say that? because that would be a complete nonsense statement.

 

[videogamedude]

looks like a N64 game

tbh, if they rewrote the renderer to use vertex lighting, cut the world into tiny chunks and used a large cartridge...

 

[kevboard]

everything he says he was speculation before launch.

what Outlaws does is absolutely "real" raytracing. is it really low quality raytracing? yes, but it's raytracing.

what he is speculating about here is how far they could reduce the quality, because the game does support probe based lighting as a fallback, and that is in parts used in the console versions afaik for the GI at a distance, in order to save performance on the Series S at least.

however, the reflections seen in Outlaws can not be done in any other way than with raytracing, with all the flaws and benefits that are attached to that.

 

[subzero83]

everything he says he was speculation before launch.

what Outlaws does is absolutely "real" raytracing. is it really low quality raytracing? yes, but it's raytracing.

what he is speculating about here is how far they could reduce the quality, because the game does support probe based lighting as a fallback, and that is in parts used in the console versions afaik for the GI at a distance, in order to save performance on the Series S at least.

however, the reflections seen in Outlaws can not be done in any other way than with raytracing, with all the flaws and benefits that are attached to that.

why would be speculation before launch lol? they just posted the video 2 months ago,and the series s version been out more then a year. it really doesn't matter he says you wont the real RT hardware look meaning its a waste of resources and looks like shit in the end.

 

[kevboard]

why would be speculation before launch lol? they just posted the video 2 months ago,and the series s version been out more then a year.

he's speculating about how far they can push what they did on Series S. the Series S version has an extremely reduced distance for its raytracing, while everything beyond that distance is probe based.

they do this on all consoles, but the Series S got a setting below even the other consoles' performance mode.

so he is speculating about the Switch 2 maybe reducing the amount of raytracing to the point where it's mostly replaced by the probe based GI.

in the end that didn't happen. I don't know how far the tracing is on Switch 2 compared to Series S, but it seems similar.
and it was mainly limited by the Series S' memory afaik to begin with.

but what's for sure is that the reflections seen on Switch 2 are triangle based tracing, which is a step up from Software Lumen for example, which only traces into a signed distance field representation of the world, making reflections look insanely blobby and undefined.

 

[subzero83]

he's speculating about how far they can push what they did on Series S. the Series S version has an extremely reduced distance for its raytracing, while everything beyond that distance is probe based.

they do this on all consoles, but the Series S got a setting below even the other consoles' performance mode.

so he is speculating about the Switch 2 maybe reducing the amount of raytracing to the point where it's mostly replaced by the probe based GI.

in the end that didn't happen. I don't know how far the tracing is on Switch 2 compared to Series S, but it seems similar.
and it was mainly limited by the Series S' memory afaik to begin with.

but what's for sure is that the reflections seen on Switch 2 are triangle based tracing, which is a step up from Software Lumen for example, which only traces into a signed distance field representation of the world, making reflections look insanely blobby and undefined.

its seems like its only using probes look at this video. missing NPC reflections , and sparkling. this is suppose to be impressive? lighting is basically broken in this game. DF should named the video RT disaster. the DF review never mentions GI popping like that and alex had to mention it later, as you can see in the video the lighting is broken.

 

[kevboard]

its seems like its only using probes look at this video. missing NPC reflections , and sparkling. this is suppose to be impressive?

missing elements in RT reflections is normal. many games do that.
you can't do reflections like this with probes. that's not how any of this works.

ommiting dynamic objects like NPCs or the player character from the BVH frees up both memory and CPU resources, because A: less things are part of the BVH (frees up memory) and it has to be uodated less frequently (frees up CPU)
all console version do it in this game afaik, at least in performance mode.

 

[subzero83]

missing elements in RT reflections is normal. many games do that.
you can't do reflections like this with probes. that's not how any of this works.

ommiting dynamic objects like NPCs or the player character from the BVH frees up both memory and CPU resources, because A: less things are part of the BVH (frees up memory) and it has to be uodated less frequently (frees up CPU)
all console version do it in this game afaik, at least in performance mode.

it goes back the the point that the game's RT is shit and not worth it on switch 2 hardware based on these results. it doesn't look like proper RT according to alex, RTGI is a noisy sparkling mess just like alex said and you can see the from the video i posted, and on top of that the reflection's are a low resolution burry mess so in the end its not worth it for switch 2 hardware.