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[HisExcellency]

What is a time attack game?

It's a platformer.

A game where you have to walk slowly and memorize the level is a weird thing, no matter what sort of game it is. Mario is harder than this. And better. And is a better speed running game too. And you can perceive what happens.

There's no way you just said you have to "walk slowly" to memorize the level

The 2D Sonic games are, imo, some of the best platformers of all time. But they are children's games my guy. If you have to walk slowly to memorize the level that's a you problem.

And yeah, as others have said if you're going fast and don't know what's ahead of you just go into a ball and you'll be fine.

 

[Bragr]

Mate you're talking about all the things included in the game that let you travel super quick, but you're ignoring the fact the levels are HUGE and there to be explored. The game mechanics require a mix of fast gameplay and slower paced exploration.

Running through the game at blistering speeds is the reward for optimising your run. You'll usually find in Sonic there's less "bumps" in the optimal path, but the platforming and skill required to use said path is high.

The slower path through the level usually has more obstacles and enemies. (Like shown in your gif)

An OPEN Sonic level can be described as using 3 lanes. High, Medium and Low. Chances are because its your first playthrough you're on the lower lanes where the gameplay is SLOWER.

Once you're skilled enough to stick on the highest pathway without falling down to bottom you can get through the levels FASTER.

You're on the wrong path through the level, bro.

Yes, but you should not have to learn a game through this sort of method. It's a game that gives you speed and expects you to use trial and error on where to use the speed and what paths to take without any intuition at all. It doesn't give me hints on what paths to take unless I play through it several times. By that time I already played through the level.

Any other game trying to do this would get blasted. It reminds me of Kingdom Heart fans trying to explain how good the story is in those games. It's nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses.

 

[buenoblue]

Other platformers don't make the character move this fast. They take into account that the player needs to perceive the obstacles.

A lot of you have used this argument now, that it's not supposed to be played like this.

But it is, the loops, the springs, the game entices you to move as fast as you can. I think some of you need to admit that its design decisions are not as good as you want them to be.

? Do you constantly hold down the run button in Mario or Rayman? I mean the game designers put a run button so obviously you are meant to always run.

The real challenge of sonic is getting to the end of a level with enough rings to enter the bonus stage and then getting all the emeralds. It's gets pretty tough on the later levels. Try playing the game slowly and keeping your rings and getting the emeralds I guarantee you will have more fun and see it's actually a decent platformer when played like this.

 

[Crayon]

A lot of people don't realize this, but tap left when you're running right and notice that Sonic doesn't turn around. Instead, he brakes a bit. Also, by tapping the d-pad, you can move at any intermediate speed between walk and full.

That movement along with the role is what sets it so far apart from Mario when other platformers at the time were considered clones.

Yes, but you should not have to learn a game through this sort of method. It's a game that gives you speed and expects you to use trial and error on where to use the speed and what paths to take without any intuition at all. It doesn't give me hints on what paths to take unless I play through it several times. By that time I already played through the level.

Any other game trying to do this would get blasted. It reminds me of Kingdom Heart fans trying to explain how good the story is in those games. It's nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses.

You think it's about speed but it's really about inertia. That's why the 3D Sonic games suck so fucking hard. They forgot that.

 

[rofif]

These were always bad. Most of the screen is behind you. Like cmon didn’t devs had eyes 30 years ago ?!
It’s a fast game you have to play slow

 

[mcjmetroid]

Like sonic games are probably the easiest 2d platformers especially of that era.
Sonic 1 is frustrating however and so is Sonic cd. Just play 2 or 3 + knuckles for the best stage designs.

 

[YCoCg]

If the screen is an issue then play the wide-screen versions.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

You're not.
Sonic 1 is a competent game. Marble Zone already makes it clear that going fast is only a small part of the game, and trying to do that in most levels will end in pain.
Sonic 2 is cheap as shit and lets you zip and zoom everywhere, only to welcome you with a "lol fuck you dude, where do ya think you were going so fast?" trap that's impossible to expect and avoid.

 

[Scotty W]

I see that Sonic cope has evolved from “You just need to memorize the levels bro” to “You just need to go slow bro.”

 

[Nvzman]

Mate you're talking about all the things included in the game that let you travel super quick, but you're ignoring the fact the levels are HUGE and there to be explored. The game mechanics require a mix of fast gameplay and slower paced exploration.

Running through the game at blistering speeds is the reward for optimising your run. You'll usually find in Sonic there's less "bumps" in the optimal path, but the platforming and skill required to use said path is high.

The slower path through the level usually has more obstacles and enemies. (Like shown in your gif)

An OPEN Sonic level can be described as using 3 lanes. High, Medium and Low. Chances are because its your first playthrough you're on the lower lanes where the gameplay is SLOWER.

Once you're skilled enough to stick on the highest pathway without falling down to bottom you can get through the levels FASTER.

You're on the wrong path through the level, bro.

Thank you for being the only one in this thread with a brain.

Guys, Sonic is not made to be pick up and play. Complaining "WHY CAN'T I GO FAST IF THERES OBSTACLES IN MY WAY, ITS BAD DESIGN" is proof you have zero clue what makes the series work. Its designed to maximize replayability by rewarding you with speed for improving and getting better at its mechanics. The fact that some people here are saying it pales to Mario kinda shows you that they completely fail to understand the differences between them. Mario is designed to be very simple to pick up and play, but hard through the level design challenging you. Sonic is more about understanding the controls to maximize your performance in the levels themselves, and then the ability to blast through the game truly opens up. The only classic 2D Sonic game not really like this is Sonic 1, and sorta CD, but 2 and 3&K are excellent games because the level design in them only opens up and rewards you as you get better and get to higher parts of the level and find all the secrets and such.

If anything, as someone who very much enjoys Classic Sonic and 2D Mario, I think Sonic has significantly more depth and replay value than Mario does, as Mario is very basic at its core and has limited freedom in how you go about the game. its fine to not like 2D Sonic but to act like its actually bad and nostalgia-lenses making them seem better is some of the most ignorant, tone-deaf shit you can say about the games. Its proof you never bothered to learn the game, rather you just held right and went "WHAT THE FUCK I HIT AN ENEMY THIS GAME SUCKS".

 

[ThatStupidLion]

Play it like mario, taking your time jumping around with precision. but if you need speed to attack, explore, or advance then do it and then slow yourself back down.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I have been going through the old sonics recently after picking up a Mega Everdrive x5 for my Genesis. It's about memorizing the stage layouts and adapting on the fly when a mistake is made.

The point is to take it slow and explore while you are learning the level. Use that accumulated layout knowledge to blast through it in subsequent playthroughs.

This took care of itself before save states were a thing. You weren't going to make it far with 3 lives by rushing through. You would play the early stages so many times that they became ingrained in your mind. As you got better, you would get further. Rinse and repeat. It's how games used to be played.

 

[Belthazar]

Most of the times I've seen this kind of argument against classic 2D Sonic is due to the person just not being good at games. Sonic games have given you the tools to react to everything they throw at you at the first time you're playing each level. Like, rolling is literally a button press away from you.

 

[Crayon]

I think a lot more people would understand the game more easily if the roll was on a button instead of down on the d-pad.

 

[nush]

Look at these big strong old men telling us how tough they are because they ... *checks notes*... can play challenging video games.

He's actually being roasted by the kids that are younger than he is now that became big strong old men. The muscle memory doesn't fade.

 

[Knightime_X]

Typically I react to stuff on screen to the best of my ability instead of mindlessly running into it like some kind of fool.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I think a lot more people would understand the game more easily if the roll was on a button instead of down on the d-pad.

Yeah, sacrifices were made to maintain its one button gameplay. I don't think this was to its benefit.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

How are you supposed to play 3D Sonic games without getting angry? ​

 

[baphomet]

Just fucking pay attention and react to the situation. There's plenty of time.

If you want a game that plays itself look at something within the last 15 years.

 

[March Climber]

For some reason Sonic Team and Dimps never learned the valuable lesson to zoom the damn camera out. Not with the Genesis/Megadrive games, not with the Advance games, not with the DS games. Somehow the Mario, Rayman, and DKCR devs all caught on to this secret eventually. Sonic Team and Dimps never did(at least with their 2D efforts).

 

[baphomet]

Double post

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Sonic does pretty much suck

 

[SF Kosmo]

What am I missing here? I get the sense I need to study each level to complete them without the constant frustration of bumping into things.

It's like the game is fighting itself. It's fun to run fast, but you can't judge the platforms and obstacles when you do.

I get that when it came out it looked and sounded fantastic, and hitting the loops and such at full speed is great. But how do you play these games without thick nostalgia goggles?

Because you're supposed to watch what you're doing and not run blindly? Speeding through a stage involves practice and knowing the layout, it's not how you play it the first try...

 

[LavitzSlambert]

For some reason Sonic Team and Dimps never learned the valuable lesson to zoom the damn camera out. Not with the Genesis/Megadrive games, not with the Advance games, not with the DS games. Somehow the Mario, Rayman, and DKCR devs all caught on to this secret eventually. Sonic Team and Dimps never did(at least with their 2D efforts).

This is so simple a concept. Then again, so is creating a game based on its own merits, and not as an answer to your competitor’s flagship franchise. It’s always been clear that Sonic was created in response to Mario, and they started with the character itself fit into the genre that was popular at the time. 2D platformers at that speed don’t work well, even when zoomed out, and that’s why Sonic fails.


Despite how many people have nostalgia for them, there is a reason Sonic games are consistently absent on GOTY or top X lists. They’re just not very good. I have to admit, I forget the franchise even exists most of the time.

 

[93xfan]

When running, press down when you can so that you roll and are invulnerable to most enemies.

 

[Neolombax]

I get what OP means, I'm bad at Sonic games too. I just chalk it up as being bad at Sonic games. I know you can take it slow in Sonic games, but it feels more against the philosophy of the game. It feels like the you're supposed to go fast, thats the default.

 

[Danjin44]

Easy....

 

[March Climber]

2D platformers at that speed don’t work well, even when zoomed out, and that’s why Sonic fails.

No, everyone else handles speed just fine, even the ones that come close to Sonic's level of speed. It's just that Dimps and Sonic Team are the wrong people for the job. That's why they should stick with 3-D sonic games(even against the wishes of fans), because it's the best they have when it comes to the franchise. Leave it to other devs to do it right.

 

[-Zelda-]

TC getting all kinds of shade thrown his way. I better not tell people how much I suck at Mega Man/X games.

Wait....









But seriously, something about the jumps, and spikes and pits in several of the stages really hammer my real world issues with vertigo, among others, which makes simple tasks difficult for me. Moving platforms and disappearing blocks are my banes.

 

[Damian black]

Press down tl roll when youre going fast in a straight path in fron of you.
Even if you do get it, due to the way the ring system is designed, it is not the end of the world if you get hit once or twice.
The more you play the better you get and can beat levels faster and without taking hits.
The games are not very long so replayability is expected.

 

[Bragr]

Because you're supposed to watch what you're doing and not run blindly? Speeding through a stage involves practice and knowing the layout, it's not how you play it the first try...

"You are playing it wrong!"

Not the best argument.

 

[Naru]

Why do you play video games?

Obviously not "pride and accomplishment".

 

[travolta88]

For some reason Sonic Team and Dimps never learned the valuable lesson to zoom the damn camera out. Not with the Genesis/Megadrive games, not with the Advance games, not with the DS games. Somehow the Mario, Rayman, and DKCR devs all caught on to this secret eventually. Sonic Team and Dimps never did(at least with their 2D efforts).

Agree with this.
It wouldn't have been an option with the earlier games, but certainly zooming out the camera would help. I found it annoying how you couldn't see ahead in those games, and felt the Mario games were more fun despite the slower more 'uncool' pace.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

 

[Soltype]

"You are playing it wrong!"

Not the best argument.

You're not playing it wrong per se but you won't be able to reap everything the game has without replaying it. It's akin to playing a song on an instrument, the first time you read sheet music is always shaky.

 

[Soodanim]

Look at these big strong old men telling us how tough they are because they ... *checks notes*... can play challenging video games.

Look at all these babies telling us how hard life is because they ... *checks notes* ... lose rings in Sonic.

You're not.
Sonic 1 is a competent game. Marble Zone already makes it clear that going fast is only a small part of the game, and trying to do that in most levels will end in pain.
Sonic 2 is cheap as shit and lets you zip and zoom everywhere, only to welcome you with a "lol fuck you dude, where do ya think you were going so fast?" trap that's impossible to expect and avoid.

Multiple pages, and it took this long to get the real explanation. Bragr please ignore the advice about learning levels, because people that say that want you to get a degree in platforming to enjoy it. Yes, if you get to speed runner mastery you can almost run non-stop, but that's rarified air.

The truth is, and Neolkaru said, you're not supposed to go fast all the time. That's the irony of Sonic, really. The first stage or two has you go fast, but you get slowed all the way down before long. Speed is a marketing gimmick that doesn't reflect reality.

My advice, from someone that grew up playing Sonic games, is to just enjoy them like any other platformer. If you are playing Sonic 2, save yourself the aggro and input 19. 65, 09, 17 into the Sound Test then get 50 rings in a stage. You'll get your speed that way.

 

[Poppyseed]

What am I missing here? I get the sense I need to study each level to complete them without the constant frustration of bumping into things.

It's like the game is fighting itself. It's fun to run fast, but you can't judge the platforms and obstacles when you do.

I get that when it came out it looked and sounded fantastic, and hitting the loops and such at full speed is great. But how do you play these games without thick nostalgia goggles?

You don’t. It was rubbish when it came out, and yet for some odd reason I still loved it. It has NOT aged well.

 

[YCoCg]

there is a reason Sonic games are consistently absent on GOTY or top X lists.

Guess you missed Sonic Mania during that black out period huh?

 

[cireza]

When OP reaches a mountain road he has never driven through before, he goes full gas at 150 km/hour. Eventually he will crash somewhere and if he survives, he will come and tell you "This road sucks !".

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

I can still clear Green Hill Zone act 1 within 30 seconds, even after all these years.

Practise, practise...

 

[JimboJones]

Press down and turn into ball.

 

[SF Kosmo]

"You are playing it wrong!"

Not the best argument.

Why? What is wrong with that argument? If someone is smashing buttons in a fighter and getting rocked (as they should), would you not point out that the player is bad, not the game? And if they said "But I wanna do all the cool combos and it doesn't work" would we not tell them that executing combos takes skill and practice?

This isn't even a "git gud" argument, because Sonic is a stupid easy, very forgiving game, it's just about knowing where you're at and playing at your skill level.

 

[01011001]

Extreme repetition and memorization. It's all designed to be played over and over for better times.

But yes, that's why I think Frontiers is the best of the series pretty much, because it's open and allows you room to run. The series has its moments, but it was always inherently a paradox of game design. Running too fast to really see what is in front of you doesn't really combine well with platforming, hence the inherent failure of the series. To get around this you have a lot of stuff on rails, and then hopefully find moments when the speed can slow down for more precision.

nah, Lost World was the best design concept for a Sonic game.
with the wide camera and clean Leveldesign it was the perfect way to design a Sonic game... but then they completely axed the concept because... Sonic Team...

 

[Bonfires Down]

It definitely comes across as a game that should have a much larger field of view but was limited by the resolution and TV size of the time. Then again it does seem to enjoy putting death traps in the way when you get some speed going so maybe the developers just hate us.

 

[buenoblue]

For some reason Sonic Team and Dimps never learned the valuable lesson to zoom the damn camera out. Not with the Genesis/Megadrive games, not with the Advance games, not with the DS games. Somehow the Mario, Rayman, and DKCR devs all caught on to this secret eventually. Sonic Team and Dimps never did(at least with their 2D efforts).

I just picked up the sonic origins collection and the native widescreen support makes it so much more playable. I'm playing them on a 75inch tv lol.

 

[Dr.D00p]

If ever a gaming franchise has been elevated way above its station, due to rose tinted childhood nostalgia, Its Sonic.

 

[Fake]

Thats why people get angry about Elden Ring earn GOTY.

 

[Lokaum D+]

OP playing contra

 

[Beer Baelly]

The whole idea of "gotta go fast" in Sonic games was always just a marketing ploy. Most people misunderstood the games. Sonic is just a regular platformer with great physics that allows fast and smooth scrolling. That doesn't mean you should go fast just because the game allows for such speeds. In fact, all classic Genesis 2D Sonic games reward exploration more than speed.

Speedy gameplay is still there for those who have mastered the levels or want to do speedruns. Otherwise play it like you would any platformer.

Damn, so I always played them wrong. I want a new Jazz Jackrabbit.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

You don't! Sonic was designed for a type of kid that no one likes.