TheGreatDivide
Banned
But it's the same fucking thing over and over. I don't know why COD gets so much shit but people are happy to drink the Halo shitshake over and over.
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How can 343 reinvent Halo?
- Thread starter Hindle
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But it's the same fucking thing over and over. I don't know why COD gets so much shit but people are happy to drink the Halo shitshake over and over.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
So basically go beyond reinventing it and make an entirely different game.
What the hell does "drop the insistence on story" mean? Your plan to reiterate on Halo is to remove one of the biggest reasons why it's unique in its genre and one of the biggest selling points? Also none of the stuff is what made Halo great in the first place outside of wide open spaces, but only vaguely. What are you going on about? Did you play Halo 1?
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
It's not the same fucking thing over and over, although it might seem that way to someone who doesn't actually play the games, there have been 4 or 5 main games in all those years, and the Halo shitshake is mighty tasty.
No it's not.
Because the enemies have a.i. which makes each fight even within same game not " the same fucking thing over and over"
Halo is one of the last remaining FPSers I can still play. FPS games have become incredibly stale and formulaic for me, especially post-Bioshock.
COD is like the shooting galleries at state fairs.
COD is like the shooting galleries at state fairs.
Each individual Halo game is not even the same thing over and over, replay-wise. But please, continue.
lol it's definitely not the same exact thing over and over.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
I've played Halo 1,2 and 3. Then I played some of ODST and got bored and haven't bothered since. I recognise there's subtle changes in the games but they really don't need to be coming out as frequently. Halo 4 should have been a 720 launch game.
It has been five years since the last mainline game.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
So, is Halo now at this weird place where the people who've followed it from the beginning dislike its pandering to the CoD crowd and the people who casually play it are bored of its "stale" formula?
RealDeadOne
Member
By "iterative" I mean the same game with new content. Think Madden, Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.
By "evolutionary" I mean creating a new game with the same "core". Halo Reach is an evolution of Halo 3 and 4 is an evolution of Reach; the games have the same design principles but are made completely from scratch between games. Physics are redone, the engine and graphics are redone, guns are built from the ground up and then balanced. Another example might be Mario 64->Sunshine->Galaxy. The series evolves and changes, Galaxy wasn't just Sunshine in space.
I'm not holding Halo up as a sacred cow, I just don't see the purpose in eviscerating a series and changing it on a basic level. If you think it's stale, stop playing Halo games. I don't mean that in the "don't like don't buy" kind of way, I'm genuinely confused as to why someone would want to play future Halo games if they don't like the way Halo plays anymore. To me, it's completely pointless to call a game Halo if it doesn't play like Halo. People are quick to decry the lack of new IPs but here they are asking for drastic changes to existing ones instead of new ones. If you want to have unique new experiences, then play unique new games.
Halo can change and evolve without having to reinvent itself, it's not a case of either "change everything" or "change nothing". Halo 4 looks to be a pretty good example of that, in fact, and if you're not satisfied with that, I honestly don't know why you're waiting for Halo to become something completely different and not just looking for new experiences in different games and series.
EDIT: I won't deny that maybe there should be fewer Halo games and that the rate of release is probably wearing people out on the series, but I'll keep buying until I don't find them fun anymore, and then I won't bat an eye at skipping releases in favor of new games that are more unique.
metareferential
Member
How can the time of release influence the quality of a game?
Halo 4 is a bad game because it comes out two years after Reach? Or a year after Anniversary?
Or it would have been good had it come out next year or so?
If the games - as you say - are "always the same" how can the timing of the release even matter? It will always be the same thing. Besides, it's been 3 years since you last played a Halo game.
An interesting logic process you have going on.
a secret-boss
Banned
I would rather have HALO WARS with XCOM control and gameplay
Franklinator
Member
That would be awesome
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
It indeed does, and a very rich extended fiction as well.
RealDeadOne
Member
I was just thinking the last time I played XCOM how perfectly the Halo fiction could work in its formula.
MS really should finance a big budget Halo spinoff so some devs can just do whatever the fuck they want with the Halo formula: redo it, CODify it, throw it out, whatever.
What if, you had two teams, one is 40 players as marines, played like CoD or Battlefield with Halo weapons, and the other team is 20 Elites that are each much stronger than a marine and also can command squads of Grunt and Jackal cannon fodder? And marines would get a limited amount of Spartan spawns to use.
It'd basically be Battlefield crossed with Battlefront.
flabberghastly
Member
It seems to me like your biggest complaint is "b-b-b-but the story is good, man!" We'll just have to disagree on that. The story was never the draw for me; it could've been entirely non-existent in the first game, and it would've had absolutely no detrimental effect on my perception of the game.
What made Halo CE so refreshing in 2001 was its open, fun levels and battles that ripped us out of the claustrophobic industrial facilities and laboratories with card keys and monster closets. Outside we found a world of vivid colors, open spaces, and intelligent AI. The next Halo should capture this same feeling, but to do so it needs to make a significant leap beyond what Halo has already done, and what other series drawing upon this design, like Far Cry and Crysis, have already done. The items I listed in my previous post are how I would go about achieving it. Disagree if you like, but they seem much more true to the achievement of Halo CE than expanding the narrative and incrementally adding to the established gameplay.
1. Halo CE
2. Halo 2
3. Halo 3
4. Halo Wars
5. Halo 3 ODST
6. Halo Reach
7. Halo Anniversary
8. Halo 4
Did you really cite a spin off and a rerelease as actual main entries in the series? I guess God of War has had 7 games in 6 years. Let's not even get started on Metal Gear Solid. Mario has had countless. In fact, I cant think of a single huge series that doesnt have as many, or more, releases like Halo does.
This is ignoring the fact that youre blatantly being disingenuous by counting Halo Wars, which is a Halo game only in theme, and Anniversary.
Oh man this would be prefect. Makes this game Frankie.
JimiNutz
Banned
I haven't played 4 yet, and im in the camp that is really hyped for it and think it looks like potential game of the year.
BUT
I can kind of understand why some people feel like Halo 4 is a half step.
343 were in a really difficult situation. Change too much and the hardcore Halo following would be very dissatisfied. As a new developer they'd be accused of not 'understanding Halo' (hell this happened already with some of the changes to mp - which weren't even that radical!)
Change too little and suddenly the formula is 'old and stale'.
Lets face facts. Halo is a huge franchise. Nintendo has Mario, Sonic had Sega, and MS has Master Chief. He is a gaming icon and Halo is a mega franchise. There are some things you just don't change because they don't need to.
How many Halo clones are there out there? How many games do what Halo does but better?
None that I can really think of.
One of the big disappointments for me out of Halo 4 so far is lack of new enemies, vehicles and weapons.
There are only 3 new enemy types and by Halo 5 I expect there to be more (at least double that number).
There are a ton of weapons in Halo 4 but maybe more is less? Maybe the UNSC weapons ahould change a little bit? Wouldn't then UNSC have adapted some of that Forerunner/Covenant tech into their weapons? Same for vehicles. Just change the Warthog up a bit. Maybe give it a boost function, change its look a little bit (again add some Forerunner/Covenant tech). Same for Scorpion etc. Add some Forerunner vehicles next time? Something completely new!
No more Covenant. None. All their weapons, vehicles etc. should be excluded. Make UNSC or Forerunner equivalents. Its a cheap trick but by excluding them, adding new vehicles/weapons/enemies in their place you make the game feel fresh.
Bigger battles! Simply more enemies, more allies and more vehicles per encounter.
Big bosses! Like Scarabs but Forerunner versions and different types. Make it like Shadow of the Colossus. Chief versus some giant huge Forerunner mech that you news to board and destroy from the inside.
Im sure they will do all this by Halo 5.
Halo 4 was obviously limited by old hardware and a sense of caution since 343 were new to the franchise.
Halo 4 just shows that the series is in very capable hands. Now that they've got their first Halo out of the way I expect the next to be something really special.
New hardware will help too.
BUT
I can kind of understand why some people feel like Halo 4 is a half step.
343 were in a really difficult situation. Change too much and the hardcore Halo following would be very dissatisfied. As a new developer they'd be accused of not 'understanding Halo' (hell this happened already with some of the changes to mp - which weren't even that radical!)
Change too little and suddenly the formula is 'old and stale'.
Lets face facts. Halo is a huge franchise. Nintendo has Mario, Sonic had Sega, and MS has Master Chief. He is a gaming icon and Halo is a mega franchise. There are some things you just don't change because they don't need to.
How many Halo clones are there out there? How many games do what Halo does but better?
None that I can really think of.
One of the big disappointments for me out of Halo 4 so far is lack of new enemies, vehicles and weapons.
There are only 3 new enemy types and by Halo 5 I expect there to be more (at least double that number).
There are a ton of weapons in Halo 4 but maybe more is less? Maybe the UNSC weapons ahould change a little bit? Wouldn't then UNSC have adapted some of that Forerunner/Covenant tech into their weapons? Same for vehicles. Just change the Warthog up a bit. Maybe give it a boost function, change its look a little bit (again add some Forerunner/Covenant tech). Same for Scorpion etc. Add some Forerunner vehicles next time? Something completely new!
No more Covenant. None. All their weapons, vehicles etc. should be excluded. Make UNSC or Forerunner equivalents. Its a cheap trick but by excluding them, adding new vehicles/weapons/enemies in their place you make the game feel fresh.
Bigger battles! Simply more enemies, more allies and more vehicles per encounter.
Big bosses! Like Scarabs but Forerunner versions and different types. Make it like Shadow of the Colossus. Chief versus some giant huge Forerunner mech that you news to board and destroy from the inside.
Im sure they will do all this by Halo 5.
Halo 4 was obviously limited by old hardware and a sense of caution since 343 were new to the franchise.
Halo 4 just shows that the series is in very capable hands. Now that they've got their first Halo out of the way I expect the next to be something really special.
New hardware will help too.
BigDaddyFatSack
Banned
I watched the multiplayer stream the other day on twitch tv. Wow did they drop the ball. It's a Halo2/COD hybrid. Might as well just rename the multiplayer portion to Call of Duty: HALO Conversion Mod.
Probably because Halo should just be Halo rather than trying hard to be COD in multiplayer aspects.
Probably because Halo should just be Halo rather than trying hard to be COD in multiplayer aspects.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
I disagree about the story. It's no masterpiece, but it's a well told space opera that a lot of people, including myself, do really enjoy, and it presents a big draw for them.
As for your other suggestions...
I like the fact that Halo is more colorful than your average FPS/TPS, but I think it's fine the way it is. There's such a thing as too colorful, and thankfully, neither Bungie nor 343i have taken it overboard.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I'll say no.
No. I don't see Halo as particularly arcadey, although it's not trying to be too realistic either. I love EDF to death, but I don't think something like that would be a good fit for mainline Halo games. I'd like to see different takes on the base gameplay explored in spin-offs, however.
Ugh, no. That would be a great way to ruin Halo, as far as I'm concerned.
Sure.
That could work, depending on implementation.
EdibleExplosives
Member
That has a nice ring to it, it's jazzy and hip. You should work in marketing.
FTW!
Friendldy AI was already useful in the very first game.
I see your point when it comes to battle-sized encounters. The problem is that even if you had thousands of soldier on each side battling it out, you'd only get to see a fraction of them.
So unless you were thinking about throwing a massive amount of enemies and friendlies into a small area and create a complete clusterfuck, normal gameplay would still look very much like standard Halo.
Pack it in guys. BigDaddyFatSack saw a Twitch stream and says the game is terrible. This totally discounts all the positive feedback we've heard from players and from my personal experience playing the game.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with incorporating certain ideas from other games. Killcams are a godsend, as you're no longer left wondering how you just got killed. Killstreak/deathstreak ordnance drops make the game more dynamic and add a layer of strategy as to when you want to deploy them. Loadouts allow you to customize your play style and give you something to strive for other than just advancing through the ranks. Sprinting is a welcomed addition that's balanced within the context of the Halo sandbox. The game is still very much Halo, though.
Watch this and tell me it doesn't look amazing.
tornjaw
Member
I spit blue Gatorade on my keyboard. Thanks for that.
I haven't played it, of course. But from everything I've read it sounds like the campaign isn't very daring.
I can tell you right now that it plays NOTHING like Call of Duty and it is one of the most fun MP experiences I have had in awhile....oh and actually PLAY it before you judge something of a damn twitch tv stream :/
What are you talking about
The Campaign is great. Like a bit more open Halo 2 (some areas are far more open).
The only problem is that they have already shown off the vast majority of enemies, weapons and vehicles. only a couple surprises.
As some reviewers mentioned, the forerunner weapons are essentially variants of already existing ones. There are differences, but I would have liked some more eccentric designs and uses.
In my opinion the story is a highpoint in the series so far.
The only problem is that they have already shown off the vast majority of enemies, weapons and vehicles. only a couple surprises.
As some reviewers mentioned, the forerunner weapons are essentially variants of already existing ones. There are differences, but I would have liked some more eccentric designs and uses.
In my opinion the story is a highpoint in the series so far.
dragonelite
Member
They should make press copies of legendary difficulty the same as easy.
And the press also 20% more shield and life and 50% more exp.
And the press also 20% more shield and life and 50% more exp.
ii Stryker
Banned
Halo Party, Halo Kart, Halo Tennis, alternate Halo 2D sidescroller with the FPS, Halo Resort, Halo Olympics.
I'm full of original ideas!
I think these reviewers are the dudebro type who prefer the copy and paste hallway monster closet whack-a-mole design of COD in lieu of the sandbox of Halo. Ultimately if 343i were to change things up they would end up being mostly superficial in the end. They could change things like enemies or vehicles but it would only really be cosmetic. they would still fill the same roles within the design of the game.
I'm full of original ideas!
I think these reviewers are the dudebro type who prefer the copy and paste hallway monster closet whack-a-mole design of COD in lieu of the sandbox of Halo. Ultimately if 343i were to change things up they would end up being mostly superficial in the end. They could change things like enemies or vehicles but it would only really be cosmetic. they would still fill the same roles within the design of the game.
Reinventing Halo is the wrong idea. Halo has been and continues to be a series that evolves over time to make each iteration closer to developer's perception of what a perfect Halo game would be. You could do things like completely change gameplay or sandbox elements but at some point it is going to stop being a Halo game and instead become something different. If these changes were compelling enough then you have the Halo identity either being shoehorned in to a game that it shouldn't be or being outright betrayed. In either case radical new ideas would be better suited to an all new franchise.
Keeping Halo fresh but maintaining what the series is about is a whole different matter. And to that end better community tools is always going to be a big deal. Things like Forge and File share are okay but it's not a replacement for a total map editor. That needs to change. Similarly with gametypes instead of just having the tweakable options open up the gametype code and let people mess around with that.
That still leaves campaign and firefight though. Those modes need to have some kind of rudimentary content creation feature. Being able to set up encounters with different combinations of enemies as well as weapons/vehicles etc. could result in many lost hours.
Community options with feeds a la Forza Motorsport 3 would be nice as well, hopefully 343i puts something like that out when they do their clan stuff. Sharing film clips is nice but pushing them to Youtube or rendering them to video for further manipulation would be a step better. Also some way to spectate on friends' matches (or just high profile ones) would be really nice.
All of these things would go to opening up a lot of possibilities with the community and it doesn't change the fundamental gameplay aspects that make Halo what it is.
This new faction in Halo 4 is an interesting premise. Things like that can go a long way to having the series remain fresh with new enemies, weapons, vehicles, and plotlines.
Keeping Halo fresh but maintaining what the series is about is a whole different matter. And to that end better community tools is always going to be a big deal. Things like Forge and File share are okay but it's not a replacement for a total map editor. That needs to change. Similarly with gametypes instead of just having the tweakable options open up the gametype code and let people mess around with that.
That still leaves campaign and firefight though. Those modes need to have some kind of rudimentary content creation feature. Being able to set up encounters with different combinations of enemies as well as weapons/vehicles etc. could result in many lost hours.
Community options with feeds a la Forza Motorsport 3 would be nice as well, hopefully 343i puts something like that out when they do their clan stuff. Sharing film clips is nice but pushing them to Youtube or rendering them to video for further manipulation would be a step better. Also some way to spectate on friends' matches (or just high profile ones) would be really nice.
All of these things would go to opening up a lot of possibilities with the community and it doesn't change the fundamental gameplay aspects that make Halo what it is.
This new faction in Halo 4 is an interesting premise. Things like that can go a long way to having the series remain fresh with new enemies, weapons, vehicles, and plotlines.
scar tissue
Banned
Halo is the console FPS series that has had the most evolution. Nothing even comes close.
Halo does not need to be reinvented, and Halo 4, while it has some flaws, is everything but stale. Admittedly I have not yet completed the campaign, but up to the first half of it it does not feel stale at all. Sprint is a perfect addition, the armor abilities work flawlessly and the new enemies are fearsome and interesting foes.
The tragedy is that while the gameplay got better from game to game, Bungie never quite nailed the perfect campaign.
There was always some bullshit like the library, quarantine zone, cortana and so on. Reach didn't have a terribad level, but then again the good levels weren't as good as the best of the previous Halos either (the covenant/the ark >>>> all)
I hope Halo 4 doesn't have a crap level like that.
Halo does not need to be reinvented, and Halo 4, while it has some flaws, is everything but stale. Admittedly I have not yet completed the campaign, but up to the first half of it it does not feel stale at all. Sprint is a perfect addition, the armor abilities work flawlessly and the new enemies are fearsome and interesting foes.
The tragedy is that while the gameplay got better from game to game, Bungie never quite nailed the perfect campaign.
There was always some bullshit like the library, quarantine zone, cortana and so on. Reach didn't have a terribad level, but then again the good levels weren't as good as the best of the previous Halos either (the covenant/the ark >>>> all)
I hope Halo 4 doesn't have a crap level like that.
soulassssns
Banned
I would never change anything in the Master Chief games but I would play a squad based TPS ODST game. Of course you would find people having issue with that from both sides (Halo fans and Haters).
Yes, yes he did.
gaming_noob
Member
What are you trying to get at?
gaming_noob
Member
HOLY FUCK. This coming from a WWE fanatic?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Thread not needed. 343 brought more changes to Halo already, any more and some people would be jumping off cliffs.
343 brought the story back to Halo and added some modern shooter features to MP.
343 brought the story back to Halo and added some modern shooter features to MP.